WTA Premier 5 Rome Inter****onali BNL d'Italia
- Thread starter PSNELKE
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davey25
Banned
Venus was a very good clay courter from 1998-2004. She underachieved bigtime at the French in the years 1999, 2001, and 2004. She should have won atleast one French in that span.
Serena has been the better clay courter since 2002 (apart from 2004) though. She is past her clay court prime as well, but still more of a threat on it than Venus who isnt a threat at all on clay at this point.
imalil2gangsta4u
Hall of Fame
Serena up 5-3
anointedone
Banned
JJ struggling with Serena on clay, LOL! So much for those who actually thought JJ was now up to Henin's level on clay just because she took Henin to 3 sets in one match. Henin probably just had a majorly off day and JJ played out of her mind that day. JJ is another vastly overrated player.
jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
Or Serena's actually good on clay when she's healthy? Some people just have to be negative all of the time I guess. :?
anointedone
Banned
I like Serena but obviously Serena is nowhere near Henin's level on clay at this point in Serena's career. A peak Serena was even 1-3 vs pre prime Henin on clay back in 02-early 03. So the idea JJ who can apparently even lose to Serena on clay is anywhere near Henin's level now on the surface as some suggested after last week is comical. My main point is JJ is a very overrated player, I dont know why anyone talks about her having a chance to win any slam. She has a shaky and technically flawed forehand, weak easily breakable serve, dicey mental game, and cant volley.
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jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
Tennis is all about matchups. I don't see what your point is, taking one match to prove that Jankovic is somehow overrated. My point is, although Serena's worst surface is clay, she can still produce good tennis on it from time to time, as evidenced by her run to the RG QF last year taking Kuzy to 3 tight sets. I'm not saying she's a world beater on clay, but she's not the clown you seem to think she is on it either.
anointedone
Banned
Serena isnt a tough matchup for Jankovic. Jankovic wouldnt have a reasonably good head to head with Serena (considering she is obviously the lesser player) with some wins on hard courts if she were. There are many matchups that prove Jankovic is overrated. I only mentioned this one as it proves the latest concept by some she is now at Henin's level on clay was a laughable one, and another instance she was clearly overrated.
As for Serena she was a really good clay courter from 2002-2004 but she is way below her former clay court level these days. Last years French was a joke all around, and a really bad display for womens tennis.
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jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
Well you think everyone's overrated, so that doesn't mean much anyways. 
jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
5-5 in TB, Serena serving.
Serena loses both points on her serve, 6-5 MP Jankovic
Jankovic wins. Serena made some horrible errors there in the end.
Serves for the match twice and still loses.
anointedone
Banned
If JJ were playing Henin today I bet she gets at most 7 games. Those who still think after today JJ is a threat for the FO title have their heads stuck in the sand. She doesnt have the weapons to win a slam on any surface, even on clay.
jones101
Hall of Fame
Jankovic did not win the match, Serena lost it IMO. Half of Jankovic's winners were off Serena's errors. Jankovic did play solid but the match was not on her racket at all.
On the whole Serena's comeback tournament went well though, looking forward to seeing her in Madrid, I think she will do well there.
jones101
Hall of Fame
Jelena was engaging in all sorts of gamesmanship.
Did anybody catch what they said @ the net?
vortex1
Banned
JJ was always streaky. She played matches of her life against Venus and Justine. She played like crap today. Lucky for her Serena choked on all crucial points and she didn't. Oh well. I hope she wins Rome.
thalivest
Banned
Clay court tennis is about who makes fewer errors. Players far better and more consistent on clay in their primes than the Williams sisters ever were even made alot of them in 3 set matches. So if Jankovic outlasted Serena in more long rallies she did win the match on her own terms. Seriously you Williams fans far overrate what they are capable of on clay. This whole ficticious idea some of you have that they are capable of dominating on clay even now past their primes when they couldnt even in their primes is out of touch with reality.
As for Madrid Serena will likely post a worse result than here. Many players were missing here, and this was a better than usual result for Serena on clay these days.
anointedone
Banned
Kim is out with injury. The earliest she will return is the French but even that is doubtful now.
Henin hardly ever plays Rome. She will be back for Madrid.
anointedone
Banned
I agree with that but how can she even hope to win a Grand Slam that way. The level Jankovic played at against Henin and Venus is the level she would need to play at for atleast her final 3 or 4 rounds straight to even have a hope of winning the French. If she has matches like today that are so far below that level, inexplicably out of nowhere, then I dont see how she can manage that.
jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
Did you watch the match? Serena missed some easy shots, it happens but not usual for Serena. Both players had a ton of missed opportunities, as evidenced by the BP conversion numbers. Overall it was a high quality match, but Serena did lose it considering she served for it twice, had multiple MPs, and was up in the TB 5-4 w/ two serves and lost both points.
As for Serena in particular being overrated on clay, you and so many others underrate her so much, it's almost like you expect her to go out the first round every year. It goes both ways. I don't think I've seen anyone seriously say Serena has a shot at winning RG, on the other hand several people expect her to go out the first round of every event as if she's some joke or something. :?
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thalivest
Banned
Umm have you watched Serena play on clay the last 6 years. That is very usual for her on clay, for her not to would be unusual.
Why would you expect anyone to say that. She hasnt been to the semis of the French since 2003 now. On top of that we have Henin back now. It wouldnt even be logical to talk about Serena winning the French ever again.
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jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
Did you watch the match? I don't think it's right for you to pass judgment if you didn't actually see the match. I'm talking about easy shots in key moments. The match was on her racquet, and she lost it. Simple as that.
Oh come on. Every match is on her racquet whether it’s hc, grass, or clay. I heard that before.
And the 1st set was close. JJ could have won it in 2 sets.
thalivest
Banned
I was trying to watch the match on some crummy internet feed. I did see enough of it to say Jankovic outlasted Serena in alot of the rallies, including on many of the big points, and that is how you win on clay. Even easy errors early in points could be through going for too much due to your opponents defense and consistency throughout a match. Clay matches are won by who makes less errors than who makes more winners.
Anyway by that logic one could say Henin lost the Australian Open final, so Serena did not really win the Australian Open title this year, Henin lost it. After all Henin all but gifted Serena the title with her 3rd set error fest and blowing many of those break points by trying crazy shots. Yet I know how you would react if someone said that.
jones101
Hall of Fame
She did outlast Serena, stayed mentally tough too no doubt about it, im not knocking Jelena, just giving an honest opionion. JJ did do really well in the long rallies, but most of those were forced errors, Jelena forced Serena into them. But Serena made so many basic errors today it was rediculous, off of non threatening shots, and still took Jelena to a 3rd set TB.
Jelena deserved the win, no doubt about it, and Im glad she is back in form as she is good to watch, but I think that the match was in Serena hands.
I dont want no beef and im not some Serena fanatic either, just giving my opinion.
Also, re: Madrid, I think she could do better there as the altitude will enhance her serve and her goundies should be more potent there, she has been moving pretty well this week so I think she can at least get to SF there.
bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
I'm watching this match right now and I'm really impressed. I love how she's totally screwing with Ivanovic. Sure, she's not beating the "big guns" but it's fun to watch her play.
So many WTA players could learn from this. Hardly anyone disrupts rhythm like this anymore, instead choosing just to bash.
Sinner
Professional
Absolutely. Like the commentators said, the Santoro of the WTA. Throwing off your opponents with spins, placement and touch.
I'd love to see these tactics fare against the big-guns.
Gaab
Rookie
Well, that was, what, four victories in a row? That's still way better than what she has been doing for a few months. We'll see how she'll do in the next tournaments.
Nice to see that MJMS's game leads her to the final anyway.
Mick
Legend
no actually, i was quite impressed (shocked) by her win because it seemed quite hopeless to come back from watching the match (i.e. serena hitting hard balls, jankovic running side to side defending)
vortex1
Banned
Did you even watch the matches? Jelena played well against Venus, but Serena choked horrendously. Failed to convert a match point and failed to serve out for the match twice. Then starting spraying errors when she was up 5-2 in tie break.
I dislike Serena and I like Janko, but really, she was very fortunate to win. She was quite passive for most of the match, just waiting for errors.
Wolland
Rookie
Jelena was obviously better on the day. Overall, Serena is a better player. That's just my point of view.
Wolland
Rookie
Of course I saw the match. Jelena's defence was rock solid, so Serena went for too much on many occasions.
Have you ever played a tennis match in which it seemed as though you were playing against a brick wall. You hit the ball with tremendous pace, it feels as though it's going to be a winner, but the ball comes back and you have to start the point all over again. That can really be annoying. And you reckon that if you don't hit it even harder, the ball is going to come back again. That is exactly what happened today, and I congratulate Jelena for doing a marvellous job.
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