WTA Rankings Change?

marc45

G.O.A.T.
Bodo's ESPN column...

Should Simona Halep be No. 1, or do WTA rankings need repair?

Caroline Wozniacki won the fifth-most important title in women's tennis on Sunday, capping off a year in which she reached 10 finals (2-8), led the tour in wins (60) and top-10 wins (14). But she woke up Monday morning ranked No. 3 in the world for 2017 and couldn't be blamed if she felt a little cheated.

The prized year-end No. 1 ranking landed in the hands of Simona Halep, who won just one tournament -- Madrid -- in 2017. It's was a big one, but nothing like the WTA Finals. Halep had a losing record (5-6) against top-10 players, had 13 fewer wins overall and lost to Wozniacki both times they met.

  • Garbine Muguruza, ranked No. 2, won Wimbledon. But she took just one other title, won 13 fewer matches than Wozniacki, finished 4-6 against Top 10 opponents and lost both times she played the consistent Dane.

These women aren't to blame for where they wound up in the rankings; all they did was go out and operate within the system. The unusually competitive nature of this year also helps explain some of these anomalies.

But since the inception of the computerized rankings, there has been a running battle between those who think it they ought to emphasize consistency and those who believe they ought to emphasize performance at the biggest events and against top opponents. This year, they seemed to emphasize neither. Do they need to be fixed?

"The emphasis should be on the Slams," Craig Kardon told ESPN.com. Kardon has coached numerous players, including Martina Navratilova and Coco Vandeweghe. "Doing well on the tour should count too, but look at some Slam champs and how little they play. They're the big stars and they're at a disadvantage. Simplify it, give more points for the Slams. Besides, people see them as more important."

Serena Williams won the Australian Open, then promptly left the game for the rest of the year for her pregnancy and the birth of her first child. It's a special case, yet as age and the demands of an ultrasuccessful career take their toll, the biggest stars in the game want to play less.

The WTA wants players to support the tour and take part in its branded events (the Grand Slams, while the most important in the game, belong to the ITF). That helps explain the WTA's reluctance to give the Grand Slams too much weight in the rankings. Make the rankings too Slam-centric and soon more and more top players will be finding ways to skip smaller tour events, the lifeblood of the WTA.

Patrick Mouratoglou, Serena Williams' coach, is sympathetic to the WTA's position. But he still thinks the tour weighs its own events too heavily.

"In 2012, when I started working with Serena after Roland Garros, she won Wimbledon," Mouratoglou told ESPN.com in an email. "Then she won the gold medal at the Olympics, the US Open and the year-end WTA Championships. At the end of the year, she was ranked No. 3."

Chris Evert feels nobody has stepped up to the plate on the WTA Tour while Serena Williams has been on maternity leave.

While one Williams might have been punished for not playing enough, this year the other Williams arguably hasn't been rewarded adequately for her consistency throughout the year's biggest events. Venus Williams, at the age of 37, won 23 total matches at the Big 5 (Grand Slams and WTA Finals), five more than the next best, Muguruza. Halep won barely half as many (13).

Venus ends the year ranked No. 5, despite having appeared in three of the Big 5 finals (Australian Open, Wimbledon, WTA Finals). She didn't win a tournament, but she only played in 16 (including the WTA Finals), while others in the Top 10 played in as many as 25.

Venus' strong play in the big events is praiseworthy. But is it overshadowed by her loss in the Wimbledon final to Muguruza?

In a recent WTA podcast, Navratilova said that finishing the year on top was a greater achievement than winning a major because of the consistency required: "To be No. 1, you have to be better than everybody else; to win a Slam, you just have to be better than seven players."

Yet some also feel that nobody should finish No. 1 without having won a major. As Mouratoglou said, "No player should become world No. 1 without winning a Grand Slam in the year. If it happens, it is not relevant."

Halep is the seventh woman to reach the top ranking without having won a major and the third to take year-end No. 1 honors (Jelena Jankovic in 2008 and Wozniacki in 2010 and 2011 are the others).

The most obvious way to halt this trend is to award more points to the winner of a Grand Slam event, but it might be even more valuable to award a higher number of rankings points round-by-round at the majors. That would have helped Venus Williams this year and hurt Halep, who failed to win a match at two of the four majors (Australian and US Opens). It seems fair, because the reward represents both consistency and success at big events. It also would have helped Muguruza, the Wimbledon champ and year-end No. 2, who came up a mere 30 rankings points (what making the third round of Grand Slam qualifying is worth) shy of Halep.

Bonus points, once a staple in the ATP rankings, are another option. They would be awarded for wins over highly ranked opponents. At Wimbledon, Roger Federer recalled how he played Pat Rafter in the first round of the French Open in 1999 for double the rankings points and with 45 extra points on offer because Rafter was ranked between Nos. 2 and 5. Federer, just 17 at the time, lost.

"That bonus points thing gets a little complicated," Kamau Murray, coach of Sloane Stephens, told ESPN.com. "There's so much going on in a player's mind. Defending points, getting back to the quarters, ranking position. It would be counterproductive to give them something else to have to calculate, like bonus points. My philosophy is, just show up and win seven in a row."

Two of the women who were able to do that, Serena Williams (No. 21) and Stephens (No. 13), were nowhere near No. 1 by year's end. Another, Jelena Ostapenko, barely qualified for the WTA Finals. Muguruza finished No. 2, but she probably wouldn't swap her Wimbledon title for Halep's year-end No. 1 or Wozniacki's overall record. Because at the end of the day, the one thing all the top players agree upon is that their main ambition is to win Grand Slams.

Perhaps that ought to figure into the calculus, as well.
 
The top women on the tour right now are so close in ability and none are really dominant. So it is not really unusual to see the top spot change so easily. While many on this forum believe that the slam events should weigh more heavily, not everyone shares that view. There needs to be some sort of balance. Roger Federer, the man with the most slam titles in history, believes that the slams are already weighted more heavily than they should be. Serena Williams, with all her slam titles, appears to have the opposite view. She'd rather just play the slams and not too many other events.

I, for one, do not believe that the system is broken. Take a listen to what Lord Federer had to say on the subject.

 
When a non slam player finishes ye1 ahead of a slam winner, that should be enough indication that the rankings are crappy.
 
When a non slam player finishes ye1 ahead of a slam winner, that should be enough indication that the rankings are crappy.
Well of the 4 WTA slam champs this year:
Aus Open: Serena Williams who missed pretty much the whole year due to being pregnant so she couldn't be #1.
US Open: Sloane Stephens missed half the year due to injury so didn't get anywhere near enough points as she missed January-June.
French Open: Ostapenko didn't pick up her stride til she won the French title. Made a huge leap up the rankings but her only big title was the French so her being #1 would be odd.
Wimbledon: Muguruza. Well you can argue she should be the #1 as she has a slam and the Premier 5 Cincy but she didn't make any other finals whilst Halep made the French, Rome, Cincy and Beijing final (all huge points) and won Rome.

Muguruza - Halep results this year at big tournaments:
Slams:
Aus Open: QF - 1R
French: 4R - Final
Wimbledon: Won - QF
USO: 4R - 1R

Premier Mandatories:
Indian Wells: QF - 3R
Miami: 4R - QF
Madrid: 1R - Won
China: 1R - Final

Premier 5's:
Doha: 2R - Skipped
Italy: SF - Final
Canada: QF - SF
Cincy: Won - Final
Wuhan: QF - 2R

Halep more consistent at the Premier Mandatories and Premier 5's earning far more points. Her slam results aren't the best especially in comparison to Muguruza. Halep with two 1R exits but one of those was Sharapova so she shouldn't be dragged massively for that loss.
 
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I read that. Playing more and taking away points from others is not the right way to set the bar for a world no 1. It's like saying collecting a hundred granites is better than getting that one diamond. Beyond the resulting scenario, as an organization the wta has to answer the question, "How do we want to project our sport for non players and to attract more towards the sport". Are they going to say, "We're master granite collectors" or do they say, "We're diamond miners"? Answer that and wta gets their direction for next decade there.
 
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That article started off well but ended terribly. Acted as if Venus was somehow ripped off? She didn't win a single damn title all year. Who cares if she made three big finals, she didn't win any of them!

In fact, i'd say give less points for slam finalists. Look at Venus, 2 slam finals gave her 2600 points but she didn't win anything. Meanwhile, Ostapenko won a slam and made a slam QF and that only got her 2430 points. How exactly is that fair? Ranking points favour the slams far too much, if you want to award more points for the champ then sure, go ahead but not to the people who LOSE in the final or SF.
 
Well of the 4 WTA slam champs this:
Aus Open: Serena Williams who missed pretty much the whole year due to being pregnant so she couldn't be #1.
US Open: Sloane Stephens missed half the year due to injury so didn't get anywhere near enough points as she missed January-June.
French Open: Ostapenko didn't pick up her stride til she won the French title. Made a huge leap up the rankings but her only big title was the French so her being #1 would be odd.
Wimbledon: Muguruza. Well you can argue she should be the #1 as she has a slam and the Premier 5 Cincy but she didn't make any other finals whilst Halep made the French, Rome, Cincy and Beijing final (all huge points) and won Rome.

Muguruza - Halep results this year at big tournaments:
Slams:
Aus Open: QF - 1R
French: 4R - Final
Wimbledon: Won - QF
USO: 4R - 1R

Premier Mandatories:
Indian Wells: QF - 3R
Miami: 4R - QF
Madrid: 1R - Won
China: 1R - Final

Premier 5's:
Doha: 2R - Skipped
Italy: SF - Final
Canada: QF - SF
Cincy: Won - Final
Wuhan: QF - 2R

Halep more consistent at the Premier Mandatories and Premier 5's earning far more points. Her slam results aren't the best especially in comparison to Muguruza. Halep with two 1R exits but one of those was Sharapova so she shouldn't be dragged massively for that loss.
Read my other reply pls, replied to SystemicAnomaly. I don't put this against the players, because no matter what, end of the day the system sets the curve and says who fits the bill. A straight line with fit few points on the graph, a curved line will fit other points. It's not the points on the graph to be blamed, but the one who draws the graph.
 
Read my other reply pls. I don't put this against the players, because no matter what, end of the day the system sets the curve and says who fits the bill. A straight line with fit few points on the graph, a curved line will fit other points. It's not the points on the graph to be blamed, but the one who draws the graph.
I agree but i'm not sure what's a better solution? Giving more points for slam losses sounds stupid. I'm all for giving slam champs more points as they're winners but giving losers more points is stupid.
 
I agree but i'm not sure what's a better solution? Giving more points for slam losses sounds stupid. I'm all for giving slam champs more points as they're winners but giving losers more points is stupid.
I see it as, "better than others, except the winner". When we look at runner up players as losers, yes it sounds like that. But if we ask, "who else was better if not her", there's no answer. The ideal thing, in my opinion is, to reward better results and motivate players to go towards "betterment by quality" and not by quantity. I should agree that at the same time, quality shouldn't dominate to an extreme.

The ATP system of taking the best 8 results for 500/250 tourneys gives a better control here. Something similar to that can be used in wta I think, if not already.
 
Performance at the biggest events should be emphasized IMO. I'm with Kardon, Mouratoglou, and Evert on this issue.

I don't care diddly squat about the player who vultures smaller inconsequential events in places like Timbuktu.

Since the departure of Serena, the tour has been in complete disarray IMO. How many women have been #1 this year? The tour is currently a mess IMO.
 
I see it as, "better than others, except the winner". When we look at runner up players as losers, yes it sounds like that. But if we ask, "who else was better if not her", there's no answer. The ideal thing, in my opinion is, to reward better results and motivate players to go towards "betterment by quality" and not by quantity. I should agree that at the same time, quality shouldn't dominate to an extreme.

The ATP system of taking the best 8 results for 500/250 tourneys gives a better control here. Something similar to that can be used in wta I think, if not already.
Good point, I just think boost points for the winners as opposed to everyone at slams. If Muguruza got say 2500 points or 3000 instead of 2000 then she'd be ahead of Halep. If Ostapenko got more for her French title then she'd be better than Venus.

Also, I believe the WTA do have a limit on how many tournaments count. It's the slams, 4 Premier Mandatories, your best two Premier 5's and then your best 6 other tournaments. And I think the WTA finals may count as another but i'm not sure.

So you can't just play 25 tournaments and have them all count, only the top 16 or 17.
 
People miss one big point of the ranking system - it's an incentive structure. The WTA needs its top players to play tournaments outside the Slams to promote them, so it gives them ranking points.

Seriously, the WTA has very low incentive to *increase* the value of Slams. Slams aren't WTA events; why would the WTA want to make them even more important?
 
People miss one big point of the ranking system - it's an incentive structure. The WTA needs its top players to play tournaments outside the Slams to promote them, so it gives them ranking points.

Seriously, the WTA has very low incentive to *increase* the value of Slams. Slams aren't WTA events; why would the WTA want to make them even more important?

Interesting point. Had not thought of that aspect of the point structure.
 
Performance at the biggest events should be emphasized IMO. I'm with Kardon, Mouratoglou, and Evert on this issue.

I don't care diddly squat about the player who vultures smaller inconsequential events in places like Timbuktu.

Since the departure of Serena, the tour has been in complete disarray IMO. How many women have been #1 this year? The tour is currently a mess IMO.

I don't recall a lot of fuss in 2003 when Clijsters achieved #1 ranking w/o an slam titles. Her first slam title came more than 2 years later at USO 2005.

Just to be clear, Simona reached the finals this year at Roland Garros, Madrid, Beijing, Rome and Cincinnati. Not exactly Timbuktu. Going deep counts for something.
 
Why? So you can win a Slam and flop all year but still end up at #1?
Read the full discussion before jumping...

I had a discussion here sometime back as an alternate approach. Feel free to comment if that makes sense again.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/atp-wta-rankings-a-different-approach.595140/

Edit: Nevermind. We've discussed to quite some depth there already.

I see it as, "better than others, except the winner". When we look at runner up players as losers, yes it sounds like that. But if we ask, "who else was better if not her", there's no answer. The ideal thing, in my opinion is, to reward better results and motivate players to go towards "betterment by quality" and not by quantity. I should agree that at the same time, quality shouldn't dominate to an extreme.

The ATP system of taking the best 8 results for 500/250 tourneys gives a better control here. Something similar to that can be used in wta I think, if not already.
 
That article started off well but ended terribly. Acted as if Venus was somehow ripped off? She didn't win a single damn title all year. Who cares if she made three big finals, she didn't win any of them!

In fact, i'd say give less points for slam finalists. Look at Venus, 2 slam finals gave her 2600 points but she didn't win anything. Meanwhile, Ostapenko won a slam and made a slam QF and that only got her 2430 points. How exactly is that fair? Ranking points favour the slams far too much, if you want to award more points for the champ then sure, go ahead but not to the people who LOSE in the final or SF.

Gosh, playing on the final sunday of a major means nothing now? I've heard it all. So basically what you're saying is on the ATP, everyone except Federer and Nadal might as well have stayed home. Venus has made the second week of every slam for 2 years running, winning or not, it may not mean she should be #1, but you're being way too hard here. 1 person out of 128 wins a slam.
 
Gosh, playing on the final sunday of a major means nothing now? I've heard it all. So basically what you're saying is on the ATP, everyone except Federer and Nadal might as well have stayed home. Venus has made the second week of every slam for 2 years running, winning or not, it may not mean she should be #1, but you're being way too hard here. 1 person out of 128 wins a slam.
Not at all what I was saying. Nowhere did I say it means nothing... I just think it's absurd to kick a fuss that Venus isn't #1 when she couldn't win a slam.

She's where she deserves to be, top 10, in fact top 5 but not top 2. Not sure why there's anything to discuss about Venus? Issue should be Halep over Muguruza not Halep over Wozniacki or Venus considering the latter two don't have a slam and in Venus' case she doesn't even have a bloody title.

I'm saying the champ should get more points. Do I think a title and QF is better than two finals? Hell yes. And yet Venus gets more than Ostapenko. I'm not dissing Venus here, anyone here knows I like her.
 
Not at all what I was saying. Nowhere did I say it means nothing... I just think it's absurd to kick a fuss that Venus isn't #1 when she couldn't win a slam.

She's where she deserves to be, top 10, in fact top 5 but not top 2. Not sure why there's anything to discuss about Venus? Issue should be Halep over Muguruza not Halep over Wozniacki or Venus considering the latter two don't have a slam and in Venus' case she doesn't even have a bloody title.

I'm saying the champ should get more points. Do I think a title and QF is better than two finals? Hell yes. And yet Venus gets more than Ostapenko. I'm not dissing Venus here, anyone here knows I like her.

As much as I'm all here for slams being HUGE, it's getting out of hand. 1 slam title shouldn't guarantee you the #1 ranking, it is a bit weird that Woz has more wins, and Mugu won a slam, but that's the problem, not the fact that she has a huge title and Simona doesn't.

"Do I think a title and QF is better than two finals? Hell yes. And yet Venus gets more than Ostapenko. I'm not dissing Venus here, anyone here knows I like her."

While I get your line of thinking, the latter requires winning more matches, on finals day both people are there playing, there's no extra match.
 
People miss one big point of the ranking system - it's an incentive structure. The WTA needs its top players to play tournaments outside the Slams to promote them, so it gives them ranking points. Seriously, the WTA has very low incentive to *increase* the value of Slams. Slams aren't WTA events; why would the WTA want to make them even more important?

Seems to have worked its magic in this area (Northern California). Up until 2013, NorCal had both an ATP and a WTA tournament. The ATP event (SAP Open in San Jose) traced its history back to 1889, making it the 2nd oldest tournament in the US (with the US Open as the oldest). Alas, the SAP Open did not appear to be profitable in recent years and left us a few years back. Saw some great players here but, sadly, Murray was the only member of the Big 4 that ever came out this way (but I do not believe that he had reached the top 10 yet when he played here).

And yet the Bank of the West Classic at Stanford, a WTA event, thrives. It has been able to attract many of the top WTA players. In recent years we've gotten both Venus and Serena, Muguruza, Halep, Azarenka, Sharapova, Konta, Ivanovic, Radwanska, Pliskova, Kerber, Hantuchová, Jankovic, Bartoli, Kirilenko and more. In the past, this tournament has attracted Hingis, Davenport, Clijsters, Capriati, Schiavone, Kournikova, Monica Seles, Navratilova, Chris Evert, Billie Jean King and numerous others.

Seems that the WTA incentive model has worked quite well for this event.
 
I think the problem is with the players, not the ranking system.. I don't know if it's their lack of mental toughness or their game but most WTA players play too high risk tennis to be able to win for more than a couple weeks at a time if that..
 
I think the problem is with the players, not the ranking system.. I don't know if it's their lack of mental toughness or their game but most WTA players play too high risk tennis to be able to win for more than a couple weeks at a time if that..

You may be on to something here. Seems that steady/consistent players like Halep and Wozniacki are rewarded for their % tennis. But so many of the other WTA players are high-riskers: Ostapenko, Muguruza, Pliskova, Vandeweghe, Stephens, Keys...
 
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As much as I'm all here for slams being HUGE, it's getting out of hand. 1 slam title shouldn't guarantee you the #1 ranking, it is a bit weird that Woz has more wins, and Mugu won a slam, but that's the problem, not the fact that she has a huge title and Simona doesn't.

"Do I think a title and QF is better than two finals? Hell yes. And yet Venus gets more than Ostapenko. I'm not dissing Venus here, anyone here knows I like her."

While I get your line of thinking, the latter requires winning more matches, on finals day both people are there playing, there's no extra match.

Winning more matches? The difference between a slam title and QF vs two finals is just one win. But one has a slam and one does not, yet the points for two finals is better than a slam and QF. Surely you see which one is clearly better.

Anyway, i'm not saying slams are the be all and end all. A slam doesn't guarentee the top spot. Otherwise I could be pushing for Serena or Sloane to be #1 but i'm suggesting Muguruza as she has another big title or at least Ostapenko as she also has another title. Venus has no title to her name and it feels weird that they factored her into this scenario when you've got someone like Ostapenko who was barely mentioned and yet has a slam and another title. Venus was consistent and deserves her #5 spot.
 
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Muguruza is the female Wawrinka, plays unbeatable tennis for one major a year, doesn't win enough elsewhere to be no.1. The fact she's touched the no.1 spot indicates the lack of top quality in the womens game.

Wozniacki is the female Ferrer, consistent but never going to win a major and never going to beat first class opposition. Fortunately for her there's no Federers or Nadals on the womens tour.

Halep?? Joke number one. None of these are worthy no.1's but someone has to be no.1.

Can't blame the rankings system for the lack of top quality in the womens game.
 
Exactly. No ranking system in the world could have given a worthy no. 1 this year.

Halep? Wouldn't be #1 in any other year.
Muguruza: Wimbledon + 1 big title? Great year. But no. 1 worthy? Doubt that. Especially given that she badly flopped elsewhere.
Wozniacki: Most consistent with 10 finals, but only 2 titles. No. 1? No.
Serena/Ostapenko/Stephens (other slam winners): Did not play/win enough to qualify for #1.
Venus: Zero titles. Cannot be #1 no matter how many big finals played.

None of these players won more than two titles this year! How can anyone qualify as a world no. 1?

There you go -- there is no player who clearly distinguishes herself from the field. So no matter who you award the #1 ranking to, there are always going to be problems.

Contrast this with Murray, when he was still world no. 1 after Wimbledon 2017 (no slam won in the last 52 weeks). He still had Shanghai, Paris, WTF (3 big titles) + Beijing, Vienna & Dubai.
 
Muguruza is the female Wawrinka, plays unbeatable tennis for one major a year, doesn't win enough elsewhere to be no.1. The fact she's touched the no.1 spot indicates the lack of top quality in the womens game.

Wozniacki is the female Ferrer, consistent but never going to win a major and never going to beat first class opposition. Fortunately for her there's no Federers or Nadals on the womens tour.

Halep?? Joke number one. None of these are worthy no.1's but someone has to be no.1.

Don't see Garbine as a female Stanimal. Wawrinka just doesn't seem to care about events that are not majors. Sounds a lot like Kyrgios in that respect. Not so for Muguruza. She runs hot & cold with her moderately high-risk brand of tennis.Don't believe that she doesn't care as Wawa & Kyrgios appears to do. Stan fared well at IW (and Rogers Cup in 2016) but hasn't done much as other non-major events recently. Garbine fared well at Cincy and Rome. Also reached the QF at IW, Rogers Cup, Wuhan and Fed Cup. Better resume for the past year or more than Stan.

I'd suggest Halep as a female counterpart to Ferrer. Very consistent workhorses. I don't believe that any player works harder than these two. Fares very well against most of the players on the tour but has trouble with the big hitters in the top 10 or 20. Both have had their best result at the French Open (Ferrer, 1 final and Simona, 2 finals). Ferrer has 27 titles (at 35). Halep has 21 singles titles (15 WTA) but then she is only 25.

CWoz is yet another variation of the Ferrer theme.
 
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I'd suggest Halep as a female counterpart to Ferrer. Very consistent workhorses. I don't believe that any player works harder than these two. Fares very well against most of the players on the tour but has trouble with the big hitters in the top 10 or 20. Both have had their best result at the French Open (Ferrer, 1 final and Simona, 2 finals). Ferrer has 27 titles (at 35). Halep has 21 singles titles (15 WTA) but then she is only 25.
Ferrer actually did well vs. most of the prominent big hitters, usually going at least even vs. them. It's just the Big 4 he sucks against. They are pretty similar otherwise.
 
Can't see Halep being equaled as Worst YE #1 in tennis history. And I thought Wozniaki 2011 was epic hilarity.

But 3 of the Top 4 not winning a Slam, damn. Pliskova and Wozniaki didn't even make a Final.

Yes the points need to be changed they're garbage.
 
The tour must resist the temptation to concentrate even more points and funds in the hands of the winners.

It will create a difference in the opportunities between the top few and the rest of the tour that is even bigger than what we have now.

It is a recipe for disaster.

:cool:
 
Can't see Halep being equaled as Worst YE #1 in tennis history. And I thought Wozniaki 2011 was epic hilarity.

But 3 of the Top 4 not winning a Slam, damn. Pliskova and Wozniaki didn't even make a Final.

Yes the points need to be changed they're garbage.
Can't see what happened this year happening again. A slam champ that won whilst ranked outside the top 100 because she was out for a year from injury (Sloane), a slam champ that only played two tournaments all year due to pregnancy (Serena) and another slam champ that wasn't in the top 40 at the time but is now well inside the top 10 (Ostapenko).

Generally at least two or three of the slam champs are from the top 10 but with Serena gone and a bunch of big players absent or returning from injury/pregnancy (Azarenka, Kvitova, Sloane, Sharapova, Serena and more), it left a void and that saw some two rather odd slam champions. Two of the four slam champs this year didn't play the YEC which also shows why 3 of the top 4 don't hold a slam.
 
Can't see what happened this year happening again. A slam champ that won whilst ranked outside the top 100 because she was out for a year from injury (Sloane), a slam champ that only played two tournaments all year due to pregnancy (Serena) and another slam champ that wasn't in the top 40 at the time but is now well inside the top 10 (Ostapenko).

Generally at least two or three of the slam champs are from the top 10 but with Serena gone and a bunch of big players absent or returning from injury/pregnancy (Azarenka, Kvitova, Sloane, Sharapova, Serena and more), it left a void and that saw some two rather odd slam champions. Two of the four slam champs this year didn't play the YEC which also shows why 3 of the top 4 don't hold a slam.

What injury was Sharapova returning from?

:cool:
 
Tried to read beyond paragraph one, where it tries to make a claim that Woz deserves to be No.1 because she LOST eight finals and won two.

But then it immediately pivoted to minimizing Muguruza's Wimbledon and Cinci wins, which are clearly >> Woz 2 titles.

Seriously, Woz being no.1 for exactly this type of season was a running controversy just a few years ago. Maybe some good points were made later on but seems like rubbish to me.
 
Performance at the biggest events should be emphasized IMO. I'm with Kardon, Mouratoglou, and Evert on this issue.

I don't care diddly squat about the player who vultures smaller inconsequential events in places like Timbuktu.

Since the departure of Serena, the tour has been in complete disarray IMO. How many women have been #1 this year? The tour is currently a mess IMO.
I thought the WTA was great this season.

More to the point, four different women won majors, two of whom missed the majority or entirety of the rest of the season. It is not like some dominant major winner lost out on No.1 to a scrub; Halep, Mug, Svitolina, Woz, Venus, Ostapenko...they all had very similar seasons.

I don't understand why people get upset about no.1 ranking. It is an award for the player who accrues the most points. This year, that was Rafa and Simona. Simple enough imo, & no need to reassess the system, certainly not to give the spot to a slamless Woz or Venus.
 
The top women on the tour right now are so close in ability and none are really dominant. So it is not really unusual to see the top spot change so easily. While many on this forum believe that the slam events should weigh more heavily, not everyone shares that view. There needs to be some sort of balance. Roger Federer, the man with the most slam titles in history, believes that the slams are already weighted more heavily than they should be. Serena Williams, with all her slam titles, appears to have the opposite view. She'd rather just play the slams and not too many other events.

I, for one, do not believe that the system is broken. Take a listen to what Lord Federer had to say on the subject.

Roger Federer, the man with the most slam titles in history, believes that the slams are already weighted more heavily than they should be.

I'd be really interested in your source for this. This is the opposite view to what most hold.
 
The system is not perfect by any means. I am not convinced Simona should be YE no.1 at the same time I don't see anybody else more deserving of this title. The easiest way is to give to Serena as a default option, ha
 
idk sloan missed a huge portion of the season giving her no.1 would be pretty weird.
I didn't say give slam winner the No. 1. I only said non slam winner shouldn't be no. 1. Obviously within the slam winners, there should be other criteria which appreciates and elevates a player's performance in other places and the system and ranking structure should achieve that.
 
The system is not perfect by any means. I am not convinced Simona should be YE no.1 at the same time I don't see anybody else more deserving of this title. The easiest way is to give to Serena as a default option, ha
 
Muguruza was clearly best option for #1. I'd put Venus at #2, then Woz and then at #4 Halep who lost in two opening rounds at Slams. Pathetic.

Muguruza won a Slam, made a Quarter and two R16. No embarrassments. She won a Masters and made another semi and three quarters. Not that strong but for this year definetly #1. The other 3 Major winners played sparingly so it fits.

Venus only one to get 2 Slam Finals and WTF Final. She also got another Slam Semi and R16. Best performer at the Big 5 events by a country mile. But it's already pretty ridiculous she has only one YE#2 to her name.
 
Muguruza was clearly best option for #1. I'd put Venus at #2, then Woz and then at #4 Halep who lost in two opening rounds at Slams. Pathetic.

Muguruza won a Slam, made a Quarter and two R16. No embarrassments. She won a Masters and made another semi and three quarters. Not that strong but for this year definetly #1. The other 3 Major winners played sparingly so it fits.

Venus only one to get 2 Slam Finals and WTF Final. She also got another Slam Semi and R16. Best performer at the Big 5 events by a country mile. But it's already pretty ridiculous she has only one YE#2 to her name.

Venus :( this was such a great year for her to be so dissappointing at the same time. She's the only woman to make it to the 2nd week of every slam for the last 10 slams.
 
Roger Federer, the man with the most slam titles in history, believes that the slams are already weighted more heavily than they should be.

I'd be really interested in your source for this. This is the opposite view to what most hold.

I provided that source in post #2. Roger himself indicated this in his interview. Check the video provided a bit after the 1-minute mark.
 
If the goal is to radically change the WTA ranking system, here are two options:

1. Declare that the slam winner with the most total tour points for the year will be No. 1. After her, players can be ranked by total points regardless of slam wins.

2. Establish minimum criteria for the year-end No. 1, such as (a) the most total tour points, AND (b) at least one slam title, and perhaps (c) at least 1-2 other titles. If no player satisfies all these criteria, there is no No. 1 player for the year! The position is officially labeled "VACANT" in the year-end rankings. Rankings calculated according to the old formula could be used for seeding purposes throughout the year.
 
If the goal is to radically change the WTA ranking system, here are two options:

1. Declare that the slam winner with the most total tour points for the year will be No. 1. After her, players can be ranked by total points regardless of slam wins.

I actually would prefer a version of this to operate at all times in the ranking system, on both the ATP and WTA tours, i.e. you should not be allowed to reach No 1 without holding a slam title.
 
Plenty of good points in this thread. The winners of the majors this year were all oddities aside from Garbine who played all year.

AussieDarcy is 100% right that it's tough to argue for Venus when she hasn't won a single title all year.

I'm not one to consider the majors the be all-end all when it comes to the rankings, however, I think the bigger almost-story this year was that Svitolina was, I believe, 2 wins away from being #1 without ever making a single major semifinal. Now that would have been cause for concern imo, even if she performed well at the Masters events.
 
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