WTA week of 10/10; San Diego 500 & Transylvania 250

Oh my now I see what you folks were talking about!
Iga IS a cheater!

Vekic just had her dead at the net and as she waited for Vekic to make her kill shot, she started
waving her hands!!!
Dirty!
 
Ronaldo said:
Really?
NORTHWOOD-12-Colors-Wig-Hat-Cap-Men-Women-Baseball-Cap-with-Hair-Camo-Sun-Visor-Fun.jpg_640x640.jpg
Click to expand...
Is that a Nadal cap?
That would mean 95% of the WTA players are Nadal fans. :)
 
coolcamden said:
Why does #1 in the world needs to do that, leading 1 set to someone outside the top 70?
Click to expand...
You're missing the point.
This is not a strategy that just came up on the spot.
She has it already ingrained in her from way back.
She will employ it against ANY player, whether in the top 10, 50, or 100+.
It's just unspeakable.
 
Vekic has a great week in San Diego though she lost to Iga in the final today. She used to be a top 20 player and a lot of injuries and surgeries let her down. Great to see her back.

Sorry my friends above, I start loving Iga's flapping bird :D She's a meme queen you know :love:
 
Some great tennis in the first two sets from both players. I've actually never watched Vekic before but she has a nice game and her clean hitting and aggressive placement was causing plenty of problems for Iga.

Swiatek just bulldozed her in that final set though. Powerhouse.

She seems to hold all the cards on the women's Tour moment, though it was noticeable how much less invincible she looks when pressure is applied — Vekic had her scrambling and resorting to a lot of squash shots. Iga's been so dominant lately it's been difficult to see how anyone beats her if she's playing well (ie. not spraying random shots 10 feet wide), but Vekic certainly had some effective tactics today.

One thing to be avoided at all costs is feeding her loopy balls on the forehand. Those get taken to Crushtown.

ktx said:
Oh no iga with her dumb net distraction again.
Click to expand...

Pretty cringey.
 
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McGradey said:
Some great tennis in the first two sets from both players. I've actually never watched Vekic before but she has a nice game and her clean hitting and aggressive placement was causing plenty of problems for Iga.

Swiatek just bulldozed her in that final set though. Powerhouse.

She seems to hold all the cards on the women's Tour moment, though it was noticeable how much less invincible she looks when pressure is applied — Vekic had her scrambling and resorting to a lot of squash shots. Iga's been so dominant lately it's been difficult to see how anyone beats her if she's playing well (ie. not spraying random shots 10 feet wide), but Vekic certainly had some effective tactics today.

One thing to be avoided at all costs is feeding her loopy balls on the forehand. Those get taken to Crushtown.



Pretty cringey.
Click to expand...
Good assessment overall.
But since you admitted to never watching Vekic before I need to add a few things.

One of the main reasons Snot-tek bulldozed in the 3rd was because Vekic played qualies, had to go through many top players to get
to the final and then had to finish her semi's match today before she played the final!
She was totally gassed out by the 3rd set.

On a full tank of gas I could easily see her taking out Iga.
The main weaknesses to Vekic's game are her short game and sluggish movement.
She got by the movement problem to get to the final by great use of her 'heavy' shots that kept
her opponents flat-footed.

I really like her calm demeanor on court.
 
Mark-Touch said:
No not the loopers Donna! She eats those for dinner. :(
Low slices, BH and FH, drop shots etc. etc.
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I saw this play to be effective when used by Zheng Qinwen, till she folded in 3rd set (Didn't watch the 3rd set, maybe she ran out of gas.)

Unfortunately, not many WTA players possesses that type of shots variety. Plus, not easy to do against an in form Iga.
 
Mark-Touch said:
Sorry, but you will need to get a quote from the rule book about this.
Your videos show various examples of hindrance.
In NONE of them did I see a player wave both hands as their opponent was about to hit the ball.

I don't believe you are right about this case.
Click to expand...
The rule book is very simple: https://photoresources.wtatennis.co...88973e54bd9a/2022-WTA-Rulebook-1-26-2022-.pdf
"3. Deliberate Hindrance

Any hindrance caused by a player that is ruled deliberate will result in the loss of a point."

Since the rule book doesn't explain into detail what is a "deliberate hindrance" and leave the decision for umpires (they are trained on this hindrance topic of course,) we have to go with precedents. All the hindrance precedents that we can find on youtube don't include waving arms. That doesn't mean waving arm didn't happen before and with other players, that means waving arm has never been ruled as a hindrance.

I personally see the waving arm is just a fake movement to trick your opponent to hit to one direction, similar to making a gesture moving to the left then suddenly move to the right etc. and tricking the opponent is a part of the game. The waving arm doesn't confuse the opponent to stop the play, like talking before hitting the ball (Medvedev,) say "come-on" when the opponent hits the ball (Serena vs Sharapova), making noise as if the ball is out to stop your opponent to reach for the ball as in the ITF example. In Hsieh Su-wei case, she lost the point even when Sabalenka raised finger to signal a challenge (but didn't say "challenge") while putting the ball back and Su-wei didn't hit the ball because she thought Aryna stopped the play.

So to me a hindrance should be like making noise to passively confuse the opponent like tapping racquet (multiple of times, if the racquet accidently hit the ground due to a loss of balance, it doesn't count,) talking, screaming when the opponent hits the ball, a ball drop out of the pocket, a hat drops,...
 
Twitter went in on Iga after that hand waving stunt. TC commentators called it out too, so maybe that public reaction is what caused her to apologize. Hopefully she will just stop - it's embarrassing for her!
 
ttwreader said:
The rule book is very simple: https://photoresources.wtatennis.co...88973e54bd9a/2022-WTA-Rulebook-1-26-2022-.pdf
"3. Deliberate Hindrance

Any hindrance caused by a player that is ruled deliberate will result in the loss of a point."

Since the rule book doesn't explain into detail what is a "deliberate hindrance" and leave the decision for umpires (they are trained on this hindrance topic of course,) we have to go with precedents. All the hindrance precedents that we can find on youtube don't include waving arms. That doesn't mean waving arm didn't happen before and with other players, that means waving arm has never been ruled as a hindrance.

I personally see the waving arm is just a fake movement to trick your opponent to hit to one direction, similar to making a gesture moving to the left then suddenly move to the right etc. and tricking the opponent is a part of the game. The waving arm doesn't confuse the opponent to stop the play, like talking before hitting the ball (Medvedev,) say "come-on" when the opponent hits the ball (Serena vs Sharapova), making noise as if the ball is out to stop your opponent to reach for the ball as in the ITF example. In Hsieh Su-wei case, she lost the point even when Sabalenka raised finger to signal a challenge (but didn't say "challenge") while putting the ball back and Su-wei didn't hit the ball because she thought Aryna stopped the play.

So to me a hindrance should be like making noise to passively confuse the opponent like tapping racquet (multiple of times, if the racquet accidently hit the ground due to a loss of balance, it doesn't count,) talking, screaming when the opponent hits the ball, a ball drop out of the pocket, a hat drops,...
Click to expand...
Nice try. :)

You rule book definition is all that we need. No need to go any further with videos you pull out from your...
Iga was standing at the net, dead in the water. She deliberately started waving both hands in the air
in a desperate attempt to distract her opponent as they were taking aim with their shot.

If I were Donna (or any other player in the future) this is what I would do if Iga was standing near the net
waving her arms...

1. Take dead aim at her and hit the ball as hard as I could directly at her stomach.
2. Put up my hand to apologize as I watched her fall to the ground in agony.
3. Start waving my arms in the exact same way Iga was doing before I hit her with the ball.

According to you, this would all be legal (including Iga's arm-waving). :(
 
Mark-Touch said:
Nice try. :)

You rule book definition is all that we need. No need to go any further with videos you pull out from your...
Iga was standing at the net, dead in the water. She deliberately started waving both hands in the air
in a desperate attempt to distract her opponent as they were taking aim with their shot.

If I were Donna (or any other player in the future) this is what I would do if Iga was standing near the net
waving her arms...

1. Take dead aim at her and hit the ball as hard as I could directly at her stomach.
2. Put up my hand to apologize as I watched her fall to the ground in agony.
3. Start waving my arms in the exact same way Iga was doing before I hit her with the ball.

According to you, this would all be legal (including Iga's arm-waving). :(
Click to expand...
You still don't understand the rule. Since the rule is not detailed, then it is down to the umpires who are trained to decide if it's a deliberate action. None of the times the waved arm happened, a hindrance was called.

This arms from Tommy Haas is much worse. It happened very slowly and intentionally and Federer put the ball out, but all the people did was a laugh and a point for Haas :D
https://twitter.com/x/status/1582021944156700673
 
ttwreader said:
You still don't understand the rule. Since the rule is not detailed, then it is down to the umpires who are trained to decide if it's a deliberate action. None of the times the waved arm happened, a hindrance was called.

This arms from Tommy Haas is much worse. It happened very slowly and intentionally and Federer put the ball out, but all the people did was a laugh and a point for Haas :D
https://twitter.com/x/status/1582021944156700673
Click to expand...
So, you don't think is was deliberate? It should have been called. She'll quit doing it and problem solved.
 
ttwreader said:
You still don't understand the rule. Since the rule is not detailed, then it is down to the umpires who are trained to decide if it's a deliberate action. None of the times the waved arm happened, a hindrance was called.

This arms from Tommy Haas is much worse. It happened very slowly and intentionally and Federer put the ball out, but all the people did was a laugh and a point for Haas :D
https://twitter.com/x/status/1582021944156700673
Click to expand...
You must think I'm really dense! :)
I understand the rule you quoted. It was short and very clear.

Yes I understand it is up to the umpire to judge if it was a hindrance or not.

"None of the times the waved arm happened, a hindrance was called."
Can you please show me even one video where the player waves their arms intentionally?

"This arms from Tommy Haas is much worse. It happened very slowly and intentionally"

No it was not much worse. Tommy WAS NOT WAVING HIS ARMS. Look very closely at what he did.
He raised both arms and just stood there.
It was done IN JEST.
Yet Fed still was distracted and missed his shot!

There is a huge difference between raising both arms and raising both arms and waving them!
 
Mark-Touch said:
You must think I'm really dense! :)
I understand the rule you quoted. It was short and very clear.

Yes I understand it is up to the umpire to judge if it was a hindrance or not.

"None of the times the waved arm happened, a hindrance was called."
Can you please show me even one video where the player waves their arms intentionally?

"This arms from Tommy Haas is much worse. It happened very slowly and intentionally"

No it was not much worse. Tommy WAS NOT WAVING HIS ARMS. Look very closely at what he did.
He raised both arms and just stood there.
It was done IN JEST.
Yet Fed still was distracted and missed his shot!

There is a huge difference between raising both arms and raising both arms and waving them!
Click to expand...

That's what she said!
 
Mark-Touch said:
You must think I'm really dense! :)
I understand the rule you quoted. It was short and very clear.

Yes I understand it is up to the umpire to judge if it was a hindrance or not.

"None of the times the waved arm happened, a hindrance was called."
Can you please show me even one video where the player waves their arms intentionally?

"This arms from Tommy Haas is much worse. It happened very slowly and intentionally"

No it was not much worse. Tommy WAS NOT WAVING HIS ARMS. Look very closely at what he did.
He raised both arms and just stood there.
It was done IN JEST.
Yet Fed still was distracted and missed his shot!

There is a huge difference between raising both arms and raising both arms and waving them!
Click to expand...
You can see Raducanu waving her arms in a match in Portoroz just a few week ago. Regarding Haas vs Federer, if that's your interpreting of the rule (waving arms vs raising arms LOL), it's fine and you can use that interpreting when you play with your friends :) The WTA have their rules and they train their umpires to enforce the rules. If you look at the whole Hindrance section of the rulebook, you will have a clearer picture of a hindrance and when it is called. I.e. in 2.a. If you let a ball falling off your pocket or your hat falling off, the first time it's a let, the second time it's a deliberate hindrance.
 
Ronaldo said:
That's what she said!
Click to expand...
Oh no, we need a third party now to muddy the waters. :)

She gave me a video example of Tommy Haas.
She gave that example to show the umpire didn't call a hindrance in that case.
But that case WAS DIFFERENT!
Haas was not waving his arms.
He just simply held them up and stood there.
 
Bill Lobsalot said:
So, you don't think is was deliberate? It should have been called. She'll quit doing it and problem solved.
Click to expand...
That's deliberate, but it was not a deliberate hindrance as I explained in a couple of posts above. To me it was just a fake movement to trick your opponent, not intentionally causing a confusion leading to stop the play.
It's not good looking, and I wish she stops doing it from now on.
 
ttwreader said:
You can see Raducanu waving her arms in a match in Portoroz just a few week ago. Regarding Haas vs Federer, if that's your interpreting of the rule (waving arms vs raising arms LOL), it's fine and you can use that interpreting when you play with your friends :) The WTA have their rules and they train their umpires to enforce the rules. If you look at the whole Hindrance section of the rulebook, you will have a clearer picture of a hindrance and when it is called. I.e. in 2.a. If you let a ball falling off your pocket or your hat falling off, the first time it's a let, the second time it's a deliberate hindrance.
Click to expand...

You are back-peddling because you know you are wrong. :)
Show me the Raducanu video if it exists please.

I wasn't trying to interpret the rule. The rule you gave was quite clear.

What I was trying to do was state that the Haas example you gave was not the same as what Iga did.
To repeat for you and everyone reading this...

Haas raised his arms and just stood there. He did NOT wave them.

Iga raised her arms and started waving them.

Do you understand the BIG DIFFERENCE?
 
Mark-Touch said:
You are back-peddling because you know you are wrong. :)
Show me the Raducanu video if it exists please.

I wasn't trying to interpret the rule. The rule you gave was quite clear.

What I was trying to do was state that the Haas example you gave was not the same as what Iga did.
To repeat for you and everyone reading this...

Haas raised his arms and just stood there. He did NOT wave them.

Iga raised her arms and started waving them.

Do you understand the BIG DIFFERENCE?
Click to expand...
LOL I think I should stop arguing with you Mark when you differentiate Iga's waving arms and Tommy's raising arms.

The Emma's match is still on TC plus I think. Someone who have TC plus here can watch the replay and confirm. Here is a screenshot:
Fct1AKNWQAEyCR_
 
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