And London extended its contract with the ATP until 2015, because the tournament had been so successful in terms of attendance.
WTF: Berdych - it’s the best tournament
- Thread starter timnz
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And London extended its contract with the ATP until 2015, because the tournament had been so successful in terms of attendance.
It's actually around 12 times better. (In terms of points acquired). But if you don't accept that, I would be prepared to put the Olympic win on par with 1 WTF. In terms of tennis achievement the olympics is far less though (the level of competition etc).
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Omega_7000
Legend
Yeah because Novak only loses when he wants to...
newpball
Legend
:roll: :roll: :roll:
1877 - Wimbledon
1881 - US Open
1891 - French Open
1905 - Australian Open
....
....
1990 - ATP Tour World Championship
Which nobody has.......hey, enough of the straw man arguments.
So that's your opinion, which you are certainly welcome to. However, how are you going in the marshalling evidence to support your claim department? On our side, we have created threads listing the evidence.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
As it stands now, maybe. The tour ending Championships were played decades ago, Mc, Borg, Connors won them so did Laver and Rosewall. Not sure about the 50's but I'm fairly certain there was an equivalent of the WTF at the time.
newpball
Legend
As I said before it is just another ATP event, of the players and for the players.
And it is a complete commercial circus, embarrassing to look at, almost completely opposite from a real tournament like Wimbledon.
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RF20Lennon
Legend
OK granted a lot of fans tend to overhype it!! But I would say it is an important aspect in the GOAT discussion because its a big tournament that you have to qualify for. Now Nadal doesn't need to win 6 of those. 1-2 will be enough. Because its an event in between the masters and the GS and you have to QUALIFY for it and I think he can and possibly will. But Fed's record of 6 is great because it shows that he was able to beat the best of the best 6 times. But the WTF is not on par with a slam at all! far from it!
The Dark Knight
Legend
Then why is the WTF never discussed in the media or by experts as a factor? How can they possibly over look a tournament that is according to you guys "the fifth slam" even bigger than the Olympics!!!!
And yet it's never talked about ? It must be that Federer conspiracy
.
RF20Lennon
Legend
Then why is the WTF never discussed in the media or by experts as a factor? How can they possibly over look a tournament that is according to you guys "the fifth slam" even bigger than the Olympics!!!!
And yet it's never talked about ? It must be that Federer conspiracy
I remember P Mac saying in the 2011 WTF match between Nadal and Tsonga that Nadal not having won the WTF is a hole in the resume because he hasn't been able to the beat the best of the best at any point in his career. But at the end of the day if Nadal ends up with lets say 20-23 slams. Nobody will care about the WTF. But I honestly think he should win one, he's almost too good of a player not too!
The only reason I would put this over the Olympics is because it offers more points, happens every year and because patriotism is not a big deal for everybody. Thats really it! But thats my personal opinion. You may have reasons for why the Olympics should be rated higher!
W
Wim
Guest
It is clear that the WTF is a show of tennis tournament. Brings in new people to watch the sport. Brings in money. Tennis needs more people getting into the sport.
It is also a goal for tennis players to get there. And that can be a good thing.
But I see it more like a show. I like the GS more of course to watch.
It is also a goal for tennis players to get there. And that can be a good thing.
But I see it more like a show. I like the GS more of course to watch.
RF20Lennon
Legend
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Again, your opinion - good.
1 of you vs all of tennis history (since 1970) saying the opposite.
With regard to your comment about it being an ATP event - not sure I get your point. All ATP events are ATP events and yes they are all for the players. They aren't for anybody else except the fans. But that is a good thing yes? Not sure what that says about the WTF.
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Yep, and no-one in this thread is claiming it is equivalent to the slam. And yes, points wise it is between the Masters and the Slams. In other words it is the 5th most important tournament.
Goosehead
Legend
lol wut..you are so wrong.
1877 - Wimbledon.
1881 - US Open.
1905 - Australian Open. (?)
1925 - French Open. (wasn't a major until 1925)
.....
.....
1970 - Year End Championship.
(Masters 1970-89, Tour World Ch'shps 1990-99, Tennis Masters Cup 2000-08, World Tour Finals 2009-).
newpball
Legend
So what?lol wut..you are so wrong.
1925 - French Open. (wasn't a major until 1925)
The date is 1891.
This championship had nothing to do with the current ATP championship, the Masters was organized by the ITF. During the "Parking Lot Press Conference" the ATP decided to do its own thing starting 1990.
The ATP is nothing but a player's syndicate, they basically can do whatever they want. otherwise the players strike. The only (relatively) independent tournaments are the grand slams.
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newpball
Legend
Grand slams are not ATP events.
Goosehead
Legend
you are totally wrong...the year end championships and the French open are dated from when I said.
Omega_7000
Legend
No it doesn't! Calling it a fifth slam is not the same as WTF=Wimbledon...
WTF awards the most points after a slam (more than any MS event or Olympics) and is played only among the best 8 in the world...It's not equivalent to a slam but how can you say it is insignificant?
The Dark Knight
Legend
Because no one talks about it.
Look if Laver or mcenroe or Agassi or wortheim or someone anyone started to say "Federer has. 6 wtf's and Nadal has 0 and therefore that's a big hole on Nadals resume"......or something like that then wtf would matter .
The FACT is no one talks about it . No one talks about it as a factor for goat hood.....so if it doesn't affect goathood at all by the people who are bestowing that honor how is it significant .
On the other hand these guys do talk about the Olympics . Agassi, Sampras ,Mcenroe , wilander all have quotes how Nadal has the Olympics over Federer.
So the bottom line is that although we can all sit here and say how wonderful the WTF is the hall of famers, the media , the sportswriter a, the experts do not so much as even mention it.
That's the facts whether we like them or not it's the way it is.
I mean to go on and argue about something that is factual is crazy!
The Dark Knight
Legend
But the fact is that it's not regarded higher than the Olympics by anyone that matters......this is not a debate it's a fact.
The Dark Knight
Legend
Yet for whatever reason it's not regarded as the actual golden slam the actual fifth slam which is the Olympics. That's why it's talked about and pointed out by the greats from Agassi to Sampras that Nadal has the golden slam while fed does not .
They do not say a word about the wtf.
So despite what we want the wtf to be .....the fact is that it's not anything close to the Olympics according to the media and hall of famers.
I'm sorry but it's not . It's not for me to decide or argue it.....it's just the way that it is.
If you want to argue the the wtf SHOULD be regarded higher than the Olympics then that's legit ......
But distorting and lying about the facts is not cool.
The wtf is a great tournament ....fun as all hell to watch, worth a lot of money and points ......but has simply not been mentioned by the media or greats in goat discussions .
Again this is a FACT.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
I actually didn't say WTF is insignificant, because then that would be contradicting my own views on the WTF; it's important, more important than masters and less so compared to the slams.
What I was trying to say is that to call the WTF a fifth slam is to say that it is equal to a slam. Wimbledon is a slam, so WTF = Wimbledon. You asked to quote one person who actually said that, and that post by TMF comes pretty close, if not the very thing you were looking for.
This would be laughable, I'd say. Just as laughable as those who say the WTF is just an exhibition.
The WTF is fine as it is, ie the year end showdown, a master's shield on steroids, a conclusion to the end of the year (except for all those tournaments that take place after it, strangely enough).
Personally though, I never understood why it is an indoor tournament for that same reason, since it's not exactly representative of the tournaments that take place for the rest of the year. It would have been fine if there were more indoor tournaments, but there aren't. It's kinda like an end of year exam with only calculus problems, when the course itself is on general physics. Relevant but not representative.
The WTF does need more awareness too - as important as I think it is, it isn't exactly as well known as it should, and this is none the more apparent when talking to people who know a bit about tennis, but aren't really "into" it.
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TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
The fact that players want to be a part of it doesn't give it elevated status. The great part about it as a player is that it means you won a lot of matches and were eight out of thousands of players who competed on the tour for the year.
Other than that, it's still not at the level that some would like us to believe.
After all, it's still an eight man tournament where you can lose and still win.
It's not played with the conditions usually afforded tournaments, which gives it a rather hokey feel.
So, as a player, would I want to qualify? Of course.
Would I give it more weight than it deserves? Uh...no.
Other than that, it's still not at the level that some would like us to believe.
After all, it's still an eight man tournament where you can lose and still win.
It's not played with the conditions usually afforded tournaments, which gives it a rather hokey feel.
So, as a player, would I want to qualify? Of course.
Would I give it more weight than it deserves? Uh...no.
chjtennis
G.O.A.T.
There is no doubt about the prestige of this tournament. It doesn't matter who your favorite player is. It has been regarded as somewhat of 5th Grand Slam for a long time. I think Nadal has a good chance to win it this year. Even if he never wins one, there's no reason for the Nadal fans to play this tournament down.
sbengte
G.O.A.T.
If you agree with something that a person says, why should it mean you agree with everything they say ? For eg, I agree with some of the things that my favorite poster N.S.K says, but not necessarily everything.
Of course you pick and choose unless you are a devoted fan who cannot see anything wrong in what your idol says.
Whoever said Berdych was lying when he tweeted about Nadal. The whole problem was because everyone thought he was telling the truth :twisted:
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
The fact is that outside of the slams, this is the biggest tournament there is. It is by far the biggest event hosted by the ATP, since the ITF deal with the slams. It has plenty of history, and a plethora of all time greats have won this title. This was the case long before Federer won it.
Now, while it is not in the same league as the Slams, and should never be considered to ever be so, it is the next biggest thing out there on the professional tour. More than the Master series events, and the other events scattered around.
It doesn't matter if Nadal won it six times, and Federer zero, you face the best here. And disrespecting this tournament is disrespecting the best players in the world, who consider it an honor to be given an invitation to compete in the most elite of all tournaments outside the slams. This is the final showdown.
I think what we have here is a distinct group of posters, and if you see their posting history, have a very common agenda, which is very obvious to see for even a blind person sleeping in the dark in a basement, in bringing the tournament down. It is obvious why there is a purpose in saying this is a waste of time, or just an exhibition...despite the fact that 1500 ranking are available for the winner, and in the past has determined who ended the year number one.
250,000 fans attended this event just the first week it was played at the 02. I wonder if they all thought it was an exhibition. For those of you who know this a special tournament, who cares about a bunch of bitter haters? Behind every successful person, there is a group of haters. That is just life.
Now, while it is not in the same league as the Slams, and should never be considered to ever be so, it is the next biggest thing out there on the professional tour. More than the Master series events, and the other events scattered around.
It doesn't matter if Nadal won it six times, and Federer zero, you face the best here. And disrespecting this tournament is disrespecting the best players in the world, who consider it an honor to be given an invitation to compete in the most elite of all tournaments outside the slams. This is the final showdown.
I think what we have here is a distinct group of posters, and if you see their posting history, have a very common agenda, which is very obvious to see for even a blind person sleeping in the dark in a basement, in bringing the tournament down. It is obvious why there is a purpose in saying this is a waste of time, or just an exhibition...despite the fact that 1500 ranking are available for the winner, and in the past has determined who ended the year number one.
250,000 fans attended this event just the first week it was played at the 02. I wonder if they all thought it was an exhibition. For those of you who know this a special tournament, who cares about a bunch of bitter haters? Behind every successful person, there is a group of haters. That is just life.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
DRII
G.O.A.T.
you obviously have weak comprehension!
guess you skipped 'its a huge show...'
thats really all that needs to be said. as an event, the WTF may be the best, the best in show! however, given its format, it does not compare to a slam or even proper Master Series 1000 tournament...
Why does atp award WTF 1500 points then? I'm sure they have some logical reasons of valuing tournaments based on how tough it is to win them.
RF20Lennon
Legend
Could not have said anything about the WTF better! awesome post!!
TMF
Talk Tennis Guru
Super Bowl isn't a big a deal either since it's a huge SHOW at half time. Olympics isn't a big a deal either because of the huge SHOW(open and closing ceremony).
TMF
Talk Tennis Guru
WRONG.
Regular NFL season game doesn't have a HUGE SHOW at halftime unlike the Super Bowl. Big events add more entertainment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_halftime_shows
sbengte
G.O.A.T.
LOL. Berd will be back in his role as mamagi at WTF to give Nadal one free point.
TMF
Talk Tennis Guru
what does that have to do with scoring
you lose!
So WTF got nothing to do with tennis, but only a show?
DRII
G.O.A.T.
its tripleE
Elite, Exhibitionary, Event!
due to its unorthodox format, with its ridiculous potential to lose a match but still win the event, it can not be considered on the same level as a slam or mandatory MS 1000 tournament.
that does not mean its meaningless or worthless, but some of you all are confusing entertainment value with tangible importance!
W
Wim
Guest
Where I live they advertise alot wta. On busses, stations. Big picture of Federer, Andy, novak and Nadal. Lol, they thought Roger was safe to put on this huge posters.
TMF
Talk Tennis Guru
According to the ATP and the players, it's not an exo but the most important event outside of the 4 slams. You may wishes to believe what you want because you have an agenda, but don't try to convince the masses. It's like trying to convince the masses that the Super Bowl is not the biggest sport event in America.
cknobman
Legend
Its the only tournament on tour where every opponent is top 10.
Yes its big and important.
There is no "easy" round against a qualifier/wild card/journeyman.
Even if lost a match you still had to beat at 4 top 10 opponents to get the title. There is no other tournament where you have to beat 4 top 10 opponents to get the title.
newpball
Legend
:grin:
And players do not have an agenda? Come on now!
The whole ATP is a syndicate, a player's union. A "Do what we say or otherwise we will strike" kind of organization.
I find WTF painful to look at, the commerce is in your face and it is a big show. Compare that with the class of Wimbledon.
Seriously, I think if WTF is the future of tennis then I fear it will degrade to some World Wrestling Federation farce. Oh, yeah that's right it's now World Wrestling Entertainment, what a suitable name.
Maybe, but it still doesn't mean it's not the 2nd toughest even to win after majors.
WTF can have 1 spectator for all I care, it's still the 2nd toughest to win and impressive to win it.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
many have said, including players, that the compressed MS 1000 tournaments with all the top players competing are among the hardest events to win (even more so than the slams which has days of rest)...
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