MasturB
Legend
But Fed wasn't there...
And that's why Ralph played and got easy wins and then withdrew.
But Fed wasn't there...
Please, don't act you don't know how tough their matches are.They have met 11 times, out of which Dimitrov has won the total of 1 - one - matches.
If Nadal will decide to play of course.Well this was the only way Nadal and Thiem could have met off-clay.
I guess you got it covered:Nadal will slay if healthy, but probably isn't.
Not sure if jk.As always, Nadal gets Dimitrov in his draw. Looks like they do that on purpose knowing how bad Nadal plays against him. Thiem can also be very dangerous indoors. Don't forget how dangerous Ferrer was for Nadal on this surface.
Again, dodging the humongous elephant in the room - you saying Thiem is dangerous indoors. I'll remember that one for years to come.
It all boils down to surface and specific matchups. Now, aside from being very much obvious that a good serve and a power game helps you indoors, you could just look at the stats. Cilic has 8 indoor titles (of 17 all together), is a HC GS winner, and additional 4 indoor finals - that is considerably more than Thiem, Goffin and Dimitrov TOGETHER. Cilic also has a bad H2H with all Big 4, not just with Roger. Zverev has 2 indoor titles (of 6) and a 2-2 H2H with Roger. Sock has 1 indoor title (Paris Masters, 4 all together), and 2 more finals. All of them have a game much more suited to indoor HC than any of the three in the other group.
If they were playing on clay, you'd have a point. On a fast indoor HC you are so off it's not even funny. Now tell me again how the groups are equal, and please touch on Thiem's indoor prowess if you find the time
It's a (real) win - (moral) win situation as always.I guess you got it covered:
If he wins, he's a warrior
If he loses, he was injured
Rafa would be proud
That’s true, but neither is Thiem. Almost all his points are from the clay swing. Question is, is Sock more dangerous than Goffin? If so, we could argue that Federer without a doubt was handed the tougher group (which already is kind of true having to deal with both Zverev and Cilic).
Sock is a tougher opponent for him than Goffin, but it's not like he should struggle at all against Sock either. The guy's serve is average at best and his BH blows. Truth be told, his FH, while pretty good is not really an upper tier shot either IMHO. People (especially casual observers) just hear that he hits it with as much or more spin than Nadal and they think it must be one of the best shots in the game, but it's not.
Please, don't act you don't know how tough their matches are.
Nadal gets the easy draw, couldn't have seen that coming lol. But neither of them are going to have problems with their draw.
Don't go to London, kids. You'll get beaten up by elderly European men at the O2 Bingo ClubTheir biggest challenge will be fitness, Nadal's is in more doubt than Federer's right now.
Don't go to London, kids. You'll get beaten up by elderly European men at the O2 Bingo Club
That’s true, but neither is Thiem. Almost all his points are from the clay swing. Question is, is Sock more dangerous than Goffin? If so, we could argue that Federer without a doubt was handed the tougher group (which already is kind of true having to deal with both Zverev and Cilic).
Again, dodging the humongous elephant in the room - you saying Thiem is dangerous indoors. I'll remember that one for years to come.
It all boils down to surface and specific matchups. Now, aside from being very much obvious that a good serve and a power game helps you indoors, you could just look at the stats. Cilic has 8 indoor titles (of 17 all together), is a HC GS winner, and additional 4 indoor finals - that is considerably more than Thiem, Goffin and Dimitrov TOGETHER. Cilic also has a bad H2H with all Big 4, not just with Roger. Zverev has 2 indoor titles (of 6) and a 2-2 H2H with Roger. Sock has 1 indoor title (Paris Masters, 4 all together), and 2 more finals. All of them have a game much more suited to indoor HC than any of the three in the other group.
If they were playing on clay, you'd have a point. On a fast indoor HC you are so off it's not even funny. Now tell me again how the groups are equal, and please touch on Thiem's indoor prowess if you find the time
I think he most definitely willIf Nadal will decide to play of course.
I think he most definitely will
I guess you got it covered:
If he wins, he's a warrior
If he loses, he was injured
Rafa would be proud
haha, point taken. Difference is that Rafa has never 'slayed' at the WTF - healthy or not. Fed has. And he's slayed plenty on HC against everyone this year when backerer wasn't present that is ;-)As oppose to ”Fed will win this if backerer doesn’t show up”?
Nadal will slay if healthy, but probably isn't.
Given that he's secured the number one, I'd be amazed if he played without being in near tip top shape. Nothing to gain unless he REALLY coverts that WTF title and fancies his chances of beating Federer there at one of his worse places to matchup vs him in a year where Fed beaten him 4 times and won the last 7 sets. And if he does fancy his chances of that he must feel pretty confident about his health
Can't believe how Nadal always gets the easier draw.
Wait! Wrong account.
Is Nadal playing for sure ?
Probably afraid now after seeing Kilterer in William Wallace mode the other night.
Sir Roger MacKilterer is coming. Be afraid, be VERY afraid!!!
When do they release the information about which group starts off first?
And that's why nadal is "humble"And that's why Ralph played and got easy wins and then withdrew.
Is Nadal playing for sure ?
If you mean in top down order - I agree with you. Zverev and Cilic are the most dangerous players outside the top 2Toughest opponents, imo:
Zverev
Cilic
Dimitrov
Goffin
Sock
Thiem
I expect both Federer and Nadal to go through to the SF.
If they both play to the best of their abilities, it should be a blockbuster match. Nadal is the better HC player going by accomplishments, but Thiem has the weapons to hurt him indoors; but both are chumps indoors, especially when you compare them to their clay prowesses.Well this was the only way Nadal and Thiem could have met off-clay.
It's polluting.
Spot on. What makes this a great, great draw is that both Federer and Nadal have the toughest draws possible. Thiem would probably be marginally better off in Fed's section, but only to get away from Goffin. All of the players are in a group where they have a shot to make the semi-final.It really depends how you look at it. Sure, Roger has a tougher group, there is no doubt about that. However, I'd fancy Roger and Nadal to go through in any group, so it doesn't matter who is in it.
Besides, Zverev and Cilic are out of form right now and have had some tough losses recently. Sock is obviously on a high from Paris, but he played a mug field and even his best can't take Roger down. So although Federer could always lose to Zverev and/or Cilic, I still expect him to advance rather comfortably. And in the SF he gets one his pigeons, old or new, doesn't matter, so if he is out of the group, he makes the final. His match with Murray demonstrated he is obviously fresh, in good shape and solid form, so he remains the no. 1 favorite.
Rafa is supposedly still struggling a bit and might not even play. I'd say that Dimitrov, Goffin and even Thiem on faster courts aren't really a cakewalk draw for Rafa, as Dimi can outgrind him, Goffin can hurry him and Thiem can overpower him. Having said that, if he is fit, he probably goes 3-0. But from then on he meets someone with a good serve and at least a solid baseline game to back it up. He'll have a tough time winning this one.
Now, what I do bemoan is the lack of variety in the matchups - 4 good servers and big hitters on one side, and 4 returners/grinders on the other side. It might be one of those "see 1 match, you've seen them all" in the groups. Well, I guess it's just been that kind of year.
To put Ferrer in the same breath with Thiem is laughable. When has Ferrer ever challenged Nadal and Djokovic on clay in the manner Thiem did in 2017? It's really not even close. Ferrer has never amassed a clay season as good as Thiem's 2017.Yp, Nadal plays really bad against Dimitrov. That is why their H2H is a remarkably close at 10-1. If you are referring to the effort or length of their matches, you have a point, however Nadal usually plays a routine 6-2 6-3 match in just under 2 hours anyways. And please tell me on what exactly makes you think Thiem can be dangerous indoors, and how on earth does Thiem's game compare to Ferrer's?
Even you should admit that Rafa got the much easier group.
Lollollollollol noDimigod is a lock for this.
1st in the round robin, dodging Fed, beating a sub-par Zverev before breaking down grandpa in the final. This is clearly what will happen.
If Nadal "owns" Federer, then I don't know a fitting word for his match-up with Dimitrov.
Obviously worried bout cakewalk draw speculation lol. Truly insecure here playing offense out the gate Eh?Thread police is here . Watch out
Sock is a tougher opponent for him than Goffin, but it's not like he should struggle at all against Sock either. The guy's serve is average at best and his BH blows. Truth be told, his FH, while pretty good is not really an upper tier shot either IMHO. People (especially casual observers) just hear that he hits it with as much or more spin than Nadal and they think it must be one of the best shots in the game, but it's not.
So how on earth did Sock get into a breaker in their last match?Socks forehand is great with time on the ball, which is something an in-form Federer won't give him. I do think Sock has a good serve though and he has good hands as well. Should be no problem though, not even sure he'd be tougher than Goffin. If Federer is off I'd rather he was playing a guy like Sock than Goffin.
All three players in Fed's group are more of a threat than any of the three in Nadal's.
Nadal on one leg might legitimately make it through that group.
Still expect the maestro to come through though... he's still the best in fast conditions, of course.
I guess you got it covered:
If he wins, he's a warrior
If he loses, he was injured
Rafa would be proud
Given that he's secured the number one, I'd be amazed if he played without being in near tip top shape. Nothing to gain unless he REALLY coverts that WTF title and fancies his chances of beating Federer there at one of his worse places to matchup vs him in a year where Fed beaten him 4 times and won the last 7 sets. And if he does fancy his chances of that he must feel pretty confident about his health