WTF title: One Glaring Big Hole in Nadal's career

norcal

Hall of Fame
I was really hoping to see a Fed/Nad semi or final this year, bummer.

This is just a tough surface for Nadal's game, I was shocked to see his record at the WTF's was around 50% W/L. Unless I saw the wrong stat on the tv...
 

clout

Hall of Fame
It’s like Federer at the Olympics or Sampras at the French. It’s the one event these legendary players could never solve for
 
He hasn't managed to win the biggest indoor hard court title since he turned pro 18 years ago. He's not really a complete "whole package" player until he wins it.
Fed and djoker have won the biggest titles on every surface: hard, clay, grass, indoors.

It's the same with Federer/Djokovic and the Olympic Gold medal in singles. Let's hope we see a more complete player than these 3 pretenders soon.
Yep, pretenders they are. But on a serious note, all 3 are lacking one thing as you said. But next year will be all 3 last chance at it likely.
Winning one would change little.
Disagree. Does winning one AO help Rafa? Yes. Did winning one FO help Fed and djoker? Yes.

But you could argue winning one gold is bigger than winning one WTF so it is a wash with Fed having 6 wTF and djoker 5.
 

clout

Hall of Fame
This is why I don’t mind Rafa doing well. Even if he matches Fed’s slam total via RG title, he’s still behind in most other metrics.

djokovic has more of a chance
I think out of all the GOAT candidates, Sampras’ performance at Roland Gators is the biggest glaring hole among any of their resumes. Nadal’s game on indoor HC’s has and will always be a massive Achilles heel for him, but still, I don’t think any ATG player had as poor of a performance on a certain surface/condition as Pete did at the French on clay
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
It's the same with Federer/Djokovic and the Olympic Gold medal in singles. Let's hope we see a more complete player than these 3 pretenders soon.
The big difference of course is that the Olympics is only played every four years, thus giving players fewer opportunities to win the gold medal, not to mention that accomplishing that goal is basically the same as winning a Masters tournament, just with a best of 5 set final thrown in which both Federer and Djokovic have shown they're capable of doing time and time again over the years. At the WTF however there are specific conditions every year(in this case indoor HC) with only the world's very best players competing there so in that sense comparing an Olympic gold medal to winning the WTF is clearly nonsensical.
 

clout

Hall of Fame
I would have Olympics on same level as masters so would compare it to Fed missing MC, Nadal missing Miami etc. It’s too random (4 years) and played on different surfaces for it to be a proper hole in the CV.
Yea that’s fair. I mean if he look at the big three’s ridiculous achievements, the biggest “hole” is Nadal’s record on indoors, especially at the tour finals. I know Nadal has had one of the greatest careers any tennis player could possibly have, but had he played just a bit better during the fall, it would’ve made his resume look even better.
 

The Blond Blur

Hall of Fame
The big difference of course is that the Olympics is only played every four years, thus giving players fewer opportunities to win the gold medal, not to mention that accomplishing that goal is basically the same as winning a Masters tournament, just with a best of 5 set final thrown in which both Federer and Djokovic have shown they're capable of doing time and time again over the years. At the WTF however there are specific conditions every year(in this case indoor HC) with only the world's very best players competing there so in that sense comparing an Olympic gold medal to winning the WTF is clearly nonsensical.
Try telling that to this guy.
 

LETitBE

Hall of Fame
It also took one of the biggest chokes in the history of this tournament (from Med) for Nadal to be 18-14 instead of 17-15

And even 18-14 is only 56%... Nadal's overall record against Top 10 players on indoor HC is 20-19
its a bit different to his % on clay isnt it
 

The Blond Blur

Hall of Fame
He cried in 08 too
Have only ever seen the machine break down crying at the Olympics, he wants it bad.




12:26
He and Ol' Rog want it bad. Here's the kicker, the last 5 Olympics have all been played on HC (with the exception of 2012 which was grass). You'd think that such superior HC players would find a way to get the job done :oops: I mean RAFA and MurrayGOAT did :cool:

On a side note, I think it's stupid that some RAFA fans put down the WTF, but I find it equally stupid when some Fraudians and Molefam put down the Olympics.
 

Feather

Legend
The big difference of course is that the Olympics is only played every four years, thus giving players fewer opportunities to win the gold medal, not to mention that accomplishing that goal is basically the same as winning a Masters tournament, just with a best of 5 set final thrown in which both Federer and Djokovic have shown they're capable of doing time and time again over the years. At the WTF however there are specific conditions every year(in this case indoor HC) with only the world's very best players competing there so in that sense comparing an Olympic gold medal to winning the WTF is clearly nonsensical.
WTF gets 1500 points, twice that of Olympics!

It's a tournament with lots of history. Of course people who are not aware of the Tennis history will compare them both.
 

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
This is why I don’t mind Rafa doing well. Even if he matches Fed’s slam total via RG title, he’s still behind in most other metrics.

djokovic has more of a chance
I already consider Nadal ahead of Fed. It's Djokovic I am worried about. Vast majority of the Federers titles came in the field where peak competition was likes of Roddick s, Hewitt's, Washed up Agassi and Bagdathis. FO also he could win when Sodeling got Rafa out. W 09 he could win when. Nadal wasn't there to defend his title. Even at 15 Rafa would have been ahead of Fed 20.

Djokovic I worry more.
 
Last edited:

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
I already consider Nadal ahead of Fed. It's Djokovic I am worried about. Vast majority of the Federers titles came in the field where peak competition was likes of Roddick s, Hewitt's, Washed up Agassi and Bagdathis. FO also he could win when Sodeling got Rafa out. W 09 he could win when. Nadal wasn't there to defend his title. Even at 15 Rafa would have been ahead of Fed 20.

Djokovic I worry more.
Nadal’s legacy is based off non existent clay competition so wouldn’t use that one.
 

Drob

Professional
It's the same with Federer/Djokovic and the Olympic Gold medal in singles. Let's hope we see a more complete player than these 3 pretenders soon.

Can't compare WTF to Olympic Gold. A player would be lucky to have four chances to win the Gold over the course of his career. Moreover, as Guanzishou states, this is the supreme Indoor tournament. This is much like Pete Sampras' failure to win RG. It is a serious hole. Failure to win the most important Indoor title, the year-end championship will prevent Rafa from ever having a winning argument for GOAT. (Rafa has only one (1) indoor title for his career).
 

Chadalina

Legend
After so many grand slam victories you have to wonder if its about playing the other top players back to back.

The wtf has no easy matches. Rafa went 2-1 this year, better than many others.
 

Backspin1183

G.O.A.T.
Can't compare WTF to Olympic Gold. A player would be lucky to have four chances to win the Gold over the course of his career. Moreover, as Guanzishou states, this is the supreme Indoor tournament. This is much like Pete Sampras' failure to win RG. It is a serious hole. Failure to win the most important Indoor title, the year-end championship will prevent Rafa from ever having a winning argument for GOAT. (Rafa has only one (1) indoor title for his career).
Lol no, it isn't. In the grand scheme of things, WTF doesn't rank anywhere close to being half of a Slam. Nadal has won all the four majors and was the youngest to do so in the Open Era.
 

Drob

Professional
I think out of all the GOAT candidates, Sampras’ performance at Roland Gators is the biggest glaring hole among any of their resumes. Nadal’s game on indoor HC’s has and will always be a massive Achilles heel for him, but still, I don’t think any ATG player had as poor of a performance on a certain surface/condition as Pete did at the French on clay
Maybe:

Pete Clay Achievements: Italian Open; heroic hat-trick on very slow, heavily watered clay courts at 1995 Challenge Round.

Rafa Indoor Achievements: 2005 Madrid 1000.
 

Drob

Professional
I think out of all the GOAT candidates, Sampras’ performance at Roland Gators is the biggest glaring hole among any of their resumes. Nadal’s game on indoor HC’s has and will always be a massive Achilles heel for him, but still, I don’t think any ATG player had as poor of a performance on a certain surface/condition as Pete did at the French on clay
Maybe:

Pete Clay Achievements: Italian Open; heroic hat-trick on very slow, heavily watered clay courts at 1995 Challenge Round.

Rafa Indoor Achievements: 2005 Madrid 1000.
 

LETitBE

Hall of Fame
I already consider Nadal ahead of Fed. It's Djokovic I am worried about. Vast majority of the Federers titles came in the field where peak competition was likes of Roddick s, Hewitt's, Washed up Agassi and Bagdathis. FO also he could win when Sodeling got Rafa out. W 09 he could win when. Nadal wasn't there to defend his title. Even at 15 Rafa would have been ahead of Fed 20.

Djokovic I worry more.
i also consider nadal ahead.........a bald head who cant play indoor
 

Drob

Professional
I think out of all the GOAT candidates, Sampras’ performance at Roland Gators is the biggest glaring hole among any of their resumes. Nadal’s game on indoor HC’s has and will always be a massive Achilles heel for him, but still, I don’t think any ATG player had as poor of a performance on a certain surface/condition as Pete did at the French on clay
Maybe:

Pete Clay Achievements: Italian Open; heroic hat-trick on very slow, heavily watered clay courts at 1995 Challenge Round.

Rafa Indoor Achievements: 2005 Madrid 1000.
 

Drob

Professional
BTW, Rafa was top seed at that Madrid 1000, followed by Roddick, Davydenko and Coria.

Rafa Defeated Ljubicic in final in five sets. Also defeated Hanescu, Robrero, Stepanek and Ginepri. That is Rafa's single indoor title. A M1000 in name only.
 

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
Nadal’s legacy is based off non existent clay competition so wouldn’t use that one.
Looks like 2008 W was played on clay court.. where a 26 years Old Grass GOAT was owned by uncouth dirtballer..
So sad Nadal was able to provide competition to so called GOAT from the time he had just cleared his teens.. but this GOAT was useless on clay as per his own fans..
 

Spencer Gore

Hall of Fame
This is why I don’t mind Rafa doing well. Even if he matches Fed’s slam total via RG title, he’s still behind in most other metrics.

djokovic has more of a chance
No one cares about the WTF -or whatever it's called this year.

If Nadal equals Federer's slam total he goes ahead based on H2H.

Every unbiased observer knows it.
 
No one cares about the WTF -or whatever it's called this year.

If Nadal equals Federer's slam total he goes ahead based on H2H.

Every unbiased observer knows it.
And you are unbiased... :unsure:

If you don't care about a tourney that is bigger than a masters, and has the top 8 players, and is worth 1500 ranking points, then you simply do not like tennis.

Everybody knows weeks at number one are bigger than h2h.
 

Spencer Gore

Hall of Fame
I've been following tennis for six decades and no one ever talked about "weeks at #1" as particularly significant.

Until it became the only record old Forty-Fifteen Fed was clinging onto, that is.
 
Last edited:
I've been following tennis for six decades and no one ever talked about "weeks at #1" as particularly significant.

Until it became the only record old Forty-Fifteen Federer was clinging onto, that is.
I can't say as I was not watching tennis till the 90's, but I was hearing commentators mention (Courier) that slams were not as big of a deal either until the mid 80's. In fact, he said the goal of tennis players has always been to become number one.
 
Laughable nonsense. Slams were always a big deal -apart from the Australian Open. No one ever considered McEnroe and Connors superior to Borg because they spent more weeks at Number One. No one cared.
Well these are words of Courier and Annacone that you are calling laughable nonsense. Not mine.
 

ForehandRF

Professional
I would have Olympics on same level as masters so would compare it to Fed missing MC, Nadal missing Miami etc. It’s too random (4 years) and played on different surfaces for it to be a proper hole in the CV.
Fed already won a gold for Switzerland.Doubles or singles, it's still a gold; Olympics are/is not a tournament anyway.The problem is that Nadal fans overrate it like this is swimming or gymnastics.
 
Last edited:

Spencer Gore

Hall of Fame
Link? What is this? A research paper? Do you want my bibliography as well? It was match commentary. But it was said in the Djoker and Fed match on Tennis Channel.
No one who understands tennis would ever say the slams weren't important until the mid-80s. So either Courier is an imbecile or you are making it up. Until you provide proof he actually said what you are claiming I'm going to give Jim the benefit of the doubt -especially given your history of posting nonsense.
 
No one who understands tennis would ever say the slams weren't important until the mid-80s. So either Courier is an imbecile or you are making it up. Until you provide proof he actually said what you are claiming I'm going to give Jim the benefit of the doubt -especially given your history of posting nonsense.
Dude, it is time for you to take a break and scurry on out till the AO. You clearly don't like the WTF and are clearly trolling.

Never said he said they were not important either. I said he said they were not as big of a deal as they are now. Said many did not play at the AO, and said the goal has always been to be the number one player.
 
Top