Yonex Vcore Pro 97HD vs Yonex Vcore Pro 97D

[robyrolfo]

You mentioned doubles...how was the maneuverability on volleys between each model, also approach shots?

I haven't accurately weighed my D and HD (I have a cheap scale that I can't fully rely on, which shows the D just a few grams heavier in static weight), and I don't know the swingweights, but by feel alone mine are pretty close to one another in terms of maneuverability. Both are completely stock, with Yonex Supergrap overgrips on both, and the D was purchased new from a local shop about a month ago, while the HD was purchased from TW a week later. I'm not sure where that puts them in their production runs, since I don't know how long the D was hanging in the shop, but I would think the HD was from some later run as I read a few older comments last year about them being out of stock everywhere, while it looks like sites like TW have plenty of them now (and at a discount).

Anyway, back to your question, in terms of maneuverability they are quite close. Maybe the HD feels a smidge quicker on those quick reaction volleys. I do find myself having to be a little more careful when volleying with the D, though, since the extra omph sometimes pushes balls a little longer.

On approach shots they again are similar, but in that area it's the pocketing feel of the HD that makes it more effective for me personally. This could (or probably is) down to weaknesses in my own game, but I tend to be a little conservative on approach shots for fear of hitting long, and these more conservative strokes with the D give me less of a sensation of control and feedback than I still get from the HD on similar shots.

I'm still feeling them out, and I'm going to try a lower string tension on the D to see if that helps with pocketing and feel, but again my overall impression is that the D is better suited to higher level, higher power play.

 

[robyrolfo]

Hey guys, here's my personal update, in case anyone cares. I finally got to weigh both on a more accurate scale, and strangely my D is coming up at 343g static (strung with Kirshbaum 17g polly, and with a Yonex Super Grap overgrip), while my HD is showing 345 grams static (with Yonex Polytour Rev 17g, and a Gamma Supreme overgrip). I say 'strangely' because the HD feels slightly lighter to handle and swing. I guess I will check their balance again, but last time I looked they were very close.

As for play, I have to say that I'm now leaning toward the HD. I've played a few more times with both, and I also had a chance to do a nice session at my local hitting wall, where I generally spend a lot of time practicing. I know that a wall isn't like actual play, but it gives me the chance to really focus on specific things and totally concentrate on what the racquet is doing, if I want. Basically the wall confirmed for me a lot of the themes that I've read here, and on the other Vcore Pro thread: the D feels great for me on big groundstrokes where I have time to set up, and it's definitely giving me more power (the ball was, on average, bouncing a foot or two further off the wall than it was with the HD). But while the D feels super comfortable and plush when hitting hard, for me the trade-off is some feel on slower balls, volleys and touch shots. And even on hard hit balls, I just don't get that same pocketing sensation.

Meanwhile, the HD just felt great to me. It's ever so slightly less stable on ground strokes, but not enough that it causes an issue for me. In return for that, I feel like it is giving me more precise feedback, especially on those touch shots and volleys.

I'm far from giving up on the D, however. I'm having it restrung at a slightly lower tension, and I will continue to experiment with strings. I just cast my vote for "Keeping both in my bag," because I think the D might still be a better choice for me for singles play (which I will do more of as the weather improves). Plus, I just can't ignore how amazing the D felt when I cranked up the speed on the ball machine and it let me return most of those balls with power, control and absolute comfort (similar hitting with my old Babolat would have borderline masochistic, especially on off center shots that were downright brutal). The D wasn't pushed around by that at all, while the HD did fine but felt closer to the limit.

Ending again on the HD: my last session was doubles play against varied opponents, and the HD just gave me so much more confidence on anything inside the baseline. I love going for highly angled touch volleys whenever I have a chance, and while I was really struggling with accuracy while using the D, I immediately started doing better again with the HD. The HD also felt more maneuverable to me (despite the similarity in specs), which also helped on overheads that I didn't have tons of time to perfectly prepare for. So yeah, against opponents that aren't particularly powerful, the HD is definitely my weapon of choice.

More to come as I keep playing with both, and experimenting with strings on both.

 

[Chairman3]

Broke down and bought an HD, from a fellow TT guy (great seller btw).
Taking it out for the first time tonight. Super excited.
He added a leather grip (saves me the trouble) and has it strung with Klip gut and Gamma glide.

 

[robyrolfo]

Broke down and bought an HD, from a fellow TT guy (great seller btw).
Taking it out for the first time tonight. Super excited.
He added a leather grip (saves me the trouble) and has it strung with Klip gut and Gamma glide.

Let us know how it goes. And what were you playing with previously?

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

More to come as I keep playing with both, and experimenting with strings on both.

I found the D changes from HD to boost the serve, similar to the 2018-2021 Vcore 95 changes, the beam thickening boosted serves. Not much loss in actual touch when hitting shots, but yes, there is a loss of pocketing "feel". The pocketing feel though shouldn't realistically produce better shots or if it does maybe a drop shot that is 5% better, maybe? Some super, super, super heavy hitters might find the D too powerful compared to HD, but strings can alter this.

 

[robyrolfo]

... Not much loss in actual touch when hitting shots, but yes, there is a loss of pocketing "feel". The pocketing feel though shouldn't realistically produce better shots or if it does maybe a drop shot that is 5% better, maybe? Some super, super, super heavy hitters might find the D too powerful compared to HD, but strings can alter this.

I know that in theory certain aspects of pocketing and feel shouldn't matter, because you can't respond quick enough (and there are some very entertaining threads debating this), but for whatever reason it matters to me. I've heard all the stuff about the ball being long gone by the time your brain processes the sensory inputs, but it still matters somehow. I'm a lifelong soccer player, briefly played professionally, and I can tell you that the same applies to cleats. The difference between soft, genuine leather cleats and the older synthetic material cleats was night and day. And it was all about feel and touch. I have no doubt that the same concepts of response time apply to kicking a soccer ball like they do to hitting a tennis ball (the ball will be gone before you process it), and yet it matters. No player in the world would prefer cleats that gave them limited feel, even if they somehow did amazing things to the ball. I can't explain why, and it might seem to defy physics, but the feel at impact matters and has an effect on the quality of shot produced.

 

[SupremeCourt]

this thread is getting dangerous-- i might need to buy both to try out now.

 

[Chairman3]

Let us know how it goes. And what were you playing with previously?

My main racquet was a pro stock ultra tour that was modded. Just too demanding to allow me to improve my game to the next level.
Demoed half dozen racquets (including the 97D)
In the interim I've been using my modded Ultra Pro (16M) as my regular racquet and have adjusted well to it.
Deep down I can't get over the control of an 18x20 though
So here we are....

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

I know that in theory certain aspects of pocketing and feel shouldn't matter, because you can't respond quick enough (and there are some very entertaining threads debating this), but for whatever reason it matters to me. I've heard all the stuff about the ball being long gone by the time your brain processes the sensory inputs, but it still matters somehow. I'm a lifelong soccer player, briefly played professionally, and I can tell you that the same applies to cleats. The difference between soft, genuine leather cleats and the older synthetic material cleats was night and day. And it was all about feel and touch. I have no doubt that the same concepts of response time apply to kicking a soccer ball like they do to hitting a tennis ball (the ball will be gone before you process it), and yet it matters. No player in the world would prefer cleats that gave them limited feel, even if they somehow did amazing things to the ball. I can't explain why, and it might seem to defy physics, but the feel at impact matters and has an effect on the quality of shot produced.

I completely believe it matters to you, but you can reach a level in touch and drop shots, pinpoint lobs, etc., where the flex of the HD, even with full gut, which I recommend trying if you haven't, where that flex versus the D won't give you a better touch shot to the degree where it makes a match winning difference. I'm certainly not even close to playing any sport professionally so I respect your athleticism, but I've played tennis since I was 4 years old for way too many hours. As you probably know, cleats have much more impact on performance than the difference between the D and H as far as feel. The difference is the same kind of difference, but the actual measurable feel difference in the HD and D is incredibly smaller than the night and day you describe with cleats. The closest thing to night and day in tennis rackets would probably be a pure drive with all poly compared to the HD with all natural gut.

 

[10S-Junkie]

this thread is getting dangerous-- i might need to buy both to try out now.

If you do, please post your thoughts!

 

[Phat Dave]

Random HD news: The popular IG account Unstrung Customs recently did stringing services at the Marbella Open in Spain. They posted a pic of their string jobs for that days semi-finals an a Green VCP97 was in the stacks. I counted strings and was pretty surprised it was actually an HD (which is the only time i have seen a pro using the HD in my knowledge). i asked who rocks the HD and they luckily responded and said Pedro Cachin (ARG), finalist. Pretty cool to see, Im an HD fanatic and am surprised more hard-hitting pros lean into the precision and comfort the HD provides but whatever.

 

[robyrolfo]

I completely believe it matters to you, but you can reach a level in touch and drop shots, pinpoint lobs, etc., where the flex of the HD, even with full gut, which I recommend trying if you haven't, where that flex versus the D won't give you a better touch shot to the degree where it makes a match winning difference. I'm certainly not even close to playing any sport professionally so I respect your athleticism, but I've played tennis since I was 4 years old for way too many hours. As you probably know, cleats have much more impact on performance than the difference between the D and H as far as feel. The difference is the same kind of difference, but the actual measurable feel difference in the HD and D is incredibly smaller than the night and day you describe with cleats. The closest thing to night and day in tennis rackets would probably be a pure drive with all poly compared to the HD with all natural gut.

Ok, I see what you are saying now, and I agree (and value your input). I'm was mostly splitting hairs, but I thought that was sort of the point (and fun) of this thread, to drill down into the minutiae. You are right it certainly isn't a big enough difference to influence a match result. I'm still very much learning the game and trying to improve, and so more than anything I just appreciate the extra confidence the HD is giving me right now. And yes, I'm dying to try a full bed of gut, as I've never played with one before. I'm kind of afraid I'll get spoiled, though!

Anyway, I just got my D restrung at a slightly lower tension (47 in the mains, 45 in the crosses, full bed of 17g Kirshbaum poly (I think it's the pro-line II) that my stringer keeps pushing on me), and I'll be playing 2 hour doubles sessions Wed, Thurs and Friday morning. So the D and HD will be going head-to-head in a battle for #1 in my bag.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

And yes, I'm dying to try a full bed of gut, as I've never played with one before. I'm kind of afraid I'll get spoiled, though!

The economics of it are nothing to be afraid of, just don't get it wet! So, the gut will last / maintain tension longer than any other string you can use. As long as you aren't a habitual string breaker, it's about the same cost to use gut as poly (assuming you swap poly out when it is dead, which some do, some don't).

 

[robyrolfo]

Yep, I've read about the longevity and tension maintenance, and how it makes up for the added cost. I'm not particularly hard on strings, but I do subject my racquets to some temperature changes and even some dampness. The summer months are better, but here in NY I could be practicing in temps in the 40's or 50's, and maybe dodging a puddle or two on the court.

Is there a big difference between a full bed of Natural gut as opposed to a hybrid of gut and poly? I know the latter is to try and get you more spin, with the nice feel of the gut, but is it really noticeable?

 

[Trip]

So I acquired a 97HD about a week ago and have been playing it side-by-side with the 97D for a few hours. Even in that small amount of time, I can see how both fall pretty much 100% inline with what TT posters have noted. The HD is definitely more maneuverable, has a more even flex profile and slightly better feel. The 97D is more club-like, powerful and feels (to my arm at least) like it swings well above its measured swing weight -- kind of like a Pure Strike 98 18x20 with a bit more mass and better feel. Both have their advantages. It would appear the HD is the better all-around stick that would fit more play styles better, but for those who value a more club-like, rigid crushing of ball (ie. almost a Pure Strike Tour kind of feel, but a little less muted), the 97D would probably be the choice.

I'll continue to play both of these sticks for the foreseeable future and relay more discoveries as they avail themselves.

 

[Parabellum]

So I acquired a 97HD about a week ago and have been playing it side-by-side with the 97D for a few hours. Even in that small amount of time, I can see how both fall pretty much 100% inline with what TT posters have noted. The HD is definitely more maneuverable, has a more even flex profile and slightly better feel. The 97D is more club-like, powerful and feels (to my arm at least) like it swings well above its measured swing weight -- kind of like a Pure Strike 98 18x20 with a bit more mass and better feel. Both have their advantages. It would appear the HD is the better all-around stick that would fit more play styles better, but for those who value a more club-like, rigid crushing of ball (ie. almost a Pure Strike Tour kind of feel, but a little less muted), the 97D would probably be the choice.

I'll continue to play both of these sticks for the foreseeable future and relay more discoveries as they avail themselves.

Oh man, this makes me really want to try the 97D, looking at the 97H and HD as well... I haven't tried any VCP's, currently using the VC95 but would like to try a little larger head size and a bit more free power. Is this VCP's specifically the 97D, H, or HD good for the OHBH?

 

[Trip]

@janelgreo - I've been a long-time VC95 user (I have the SV, the '18 and the '21), so I can give you a pretty good descriptive difference.

At a high level, things you'll notice at large: the VC95 is going to be whippier, more maneuverable and offer easier access to racquet head speed and spin production. The 97D will be more "club"-like and "thuddy", more stable across the entire string bed, yield more plow for its given swing weight, and deliver a generally heavier ball, especially on flat contact (serves, overheads, stab volleys), also a lower ball on ground strokes.

Specifics:

Control - similar, but via slightly different means: the VC95's control comes primarily from it's smaller head size and very uniform pattern of medium density; the 97D more so from its even tighter pattern and broader coverage of the hoop area. So with the VC95, one achieves control from being able to precisely orient the entire racquet face with micro levels of adjustment all the way through the swing path, whereas with the 97D, control comes primarily from consistency of ball behavior off the string bed (with less ability to alter hoop orientation mid-swing). Different mechanisms to achieve similar results; your preference will likely come down to personal taste.

Feel - First is flex: the VC95 feels as though it flexes as a single continuous "unit", where the 97D flexes most in the throat, with a beefier, more solid hoop. Next is feel in the hand (or "connectedness"): some might say that the VDM is better balanced in the 97D (and across the whole '21 VCP series for that matter), with a slightly more connected feel. I would probably agree. It feels better than the '21 VCores by about 10-20%.

Trajectory - The 97D will launch the ball lower, probably by about 1 foot (about 1/3 meter) on average per shot. This variance will of course be less on, say, a flat volley, than a sweeping forehand from the baseline.

Power - While the VC95 has its fair share of power from its VCore DNA, it's still a lower-power frame, and while the 97D is by no means a power frame, it's "thuddy"-ness gives it the edge in being the more powerful of the two, provided you can wield it with the same racquet head speed, or at least very close to the same. This is especially noticeable on serves, where you can just crush flat bombs all day long; it's probably the best combo of comfort plus crushing flat power on serve that I've ever hit with (and I've demo'd basically everything other than the boutique, custom stuff -- ZUS, Angell, etc.).

Modifications - Even though the '21 VC95 has been slightly beefed up and stabilized compared to the '18, many still find it necessary to add lead, either to 9&3, or 12, or all three. With the 97D, I'd argue that for most players, it doesn't need weight anywhere, and plays plenty stable and heavy enough stock. This is quite nice from a "just pick it up and play" perspective.

So, overall, the thing to be careful with when moving from the '21 VC95 to the '21 VCP 97D is weight, both static and swing weight. I would definitely try for a lighter sample, and while it may be convenient to buy a 97D used or borrow one from a friend, if you get serious and want to commit to it, I would 100% recommend using a racquet matching service, from TW or otherwise, to ensure you can pick from the lighter end of the spectrum.

I hope that helps you in your decision making process!

 

[10S-Junkie]

@janelgreo - I've been a long-time VC95 user (I have the SV, the '18 and the '21), so I can give you a pretty good descriptive difference.

At a high level, things you'll notice at large: the VC95 is going to be whippier, more maneuverable and offer easier access to racquet head speed and spin production. The 97D will be more "club"-like and "thuddy", more stable across the entire string bed, yield more plow for its given swing weight, and deliver a generally heavier ball, especially on flat contact (serves, overheads, stab volleys), also a lower ball on ground strokes.

Specifics:

Control - similar, but via slightly different means: the VC95's control comes primarily from it's smaller head size and very uniform pattern of medium density; the 97D more so from its even tighter pattern and broader coverage of the hoop area. So with the VC95, one achieves control from being able to precisely orient the entire racquet face with micro levels of adjustment all the way through the swing path, whereas with the 97D, control comes primarily from consistency of ball behavior off the string bed (with less ability to alter hoop orientation mid-swing). Different mechanisms to achieve similar results; your preference will likely come down to personal taste.

Feel - First is flex: the VC95 feels as though it flexes as a single continuous "unit", where the 97D flexes most in the throat, with a beefier, more solid hoop. Next is feel in the hand (or "connectedness"): some might say that the VDM is better balanced in the 97D (and across the whole '21 VCP series for that matter), with a slightly more connected feel. I would probably agree. It feels better than the '21 VCores by about 10-20%.

Trajectory - The 97D will launch the ball lower, probably by about 1 foot (about 1/3 meter) on average per shot. This variance will of course be less on, say, a flat volley, than a sweeping forehand from the baseline.

Power - While the VC95 has its fair share of power from its VCore DNA, it's still a lower-power frame, and while the 97D is by no means a power frame, it's "thuddy"-ness gives it the edge in being the more powerful of the two, provided you can wield it with the same racquet head speed, or at least very close to the same. This is especially noticeable on serves, where you can just crush flat bombs all day long; it's probably the best combo of comfort plus crushing flat power on serve that I've ever hit with (and I've demo'd basically everything other than the boutique, custom stuff -- ZUS, Angell, etc.).

Modifications - Even though the '21 VC95 has been slightly beefed up and stabilized compared to the '18, many still find it necessary to add lead, either to 9&3, or 12, or all three. With the 97D, I'd argue that for most players, it doesn't need weight anywhere, and plays plenty stable and heavy enough stock. This is quite nice from a "just pick it up and play" perspective.

So, overall, the thing to be careful with when moving from the '21 VC95 to the '21 VCP 97D is weight, both static and swing weight. I would definitely try for a lighter sample, and while it may be convenient to buy a 97D used or borrow one from a friend, if you get serious and want to commit to it, I would 100% recommend using a racquet matching service, from TW or otherwise, to ensure you can pick from the lighter end of the spectrum.

I hope that helps you in your decision making process!

Great, detailed explanation! Couldn't agree more about serving contnuous bombs with the 97D and picking from the lower end of the weight spectrum for a 1HBH.

The 97H might be too much weight/swingweight for you unless you have Stanimal's arm and technique!
(He actually plays with a beefed up older model 95D with a VCP 2021 paint job)

 

[Parabellum]

@janelgreo - I've been a long-time VC95 user (I have the SV, the '18 and the '21), so I can give you a pretty good descriptive difference.

At a high level, things you'll notice at large: the VC95 is going to be whippier, more maneuverable and offer easier access to racquet head speed and spin production. The 97D will be more "club"-like and "thuddy", more stable across the entire string bed, yield more plow for its given swing weight, and deliver a generally heavier ball, especially on flat contact (serves, overheads, stab volleys), also a lower ball on ground strokes.

Specifics:

Control - similar, but via slightly different means: the VC95's control comes primarily from it's smaller head size and very uniform pattern of medium density; the 97D more so from its even tighter pattern and broader coverage of the hoop area. So with the VC95, one achieves control from being able to precisely orient the entire racquet face with micro levels of adjustment all the way through the swing path, whereas with the 97D, control comes primarily from consistency of ball behavior off the string bed (with less ability to alter hoop orientation mid-swing). Different mechanisms to achieve similar results; your preference will likely come down to personal taste.

Feel - First is flex: the VC95 feels as though it flexes as a single continuous "unit", where the 97D flexes most in the throat, with a beefier, more solid hoop. Next is feel in the hand (or "connectedness"): some might say that the VDM is better balanced in the 97D (and across the whole '21 VCP series for that matter), with a slightly more connected feel. I would probably agree. It feels better than the '21 VCores by about 10-20%.

Trajectory - The 97D will launch the ball lower, probably by about 1 foot (about 1/3 meter) on average per shot. This variance will of course be less on, say, a flat volley, than a sweeping forehand from the baseline.

Power - While the VC95 has its fair share of power from its VCore DNA, it's still a lower-power frame, and while the 97D is by no means a power frame, it's "thuddy"-ness gives it the edge in being the more powerful of the two, provided you can wield it with the same racquet head speed, or at least very close to the same. This is especially noticeable on serves, where you can just crush flat bombs all day long; it's probably the best combo of comfort plus crushing flat power on serve that I've ever hit with (and I've demo'd basically everything other than the boutique, custom stuff -- ZUS, Angell, etc.).

Modifications - Even though the '21 VC95 has been slightly beefed up and stabilized compared to the '18, many still find it necessary to add lead, either to 9&3, or 12, or all three. With the 97D, I'd argue that for most players, it doesn't need weight anywhere, and plays plenty stable and heavy enough stock. This is quite nice from a "just pick it up and play" perspective.

So, overall, the thing to be careful with when moving from the '21 VC95 to the '21 VCP 97D is weight, both static and swing weight. I would definitely try for a lighter sample, and while it may be convenient to buy a 97D used or borrow one from a friend, if you get serious and want to commit to it, I would 100% recommend using a racquet matching service, from TW or otherwise, to ensure you can pick from the lighter end of the spectrum.

I hope that helps you in your decision making process!

Great, detailed explanation! Couldn't agree more about serving contnuous bombs with the 97D and picking from the lower end of the weight spectrum for a 1HBH.

The 97H might be too much weight/swingweight for you unless you have Stanimal's arm and technique!
(He actually plays with a beefed up older model 95D with a VCP 2021 paint job)

Wow thanks for taking the time to make this detailed comparison! I DEFINITELY have to give the VCP 97D a try and honestly may give the HD a try as well. The weight is not an issue with me, I lift regularly and before the VCore 95 I came from a 6.1 95 that weighed 352g strung (SW unsure) and I modified my VC95's to 348g strung (leather grip, 4g @12, and lead in butt cap), both with a HL balance of 10 pts. I definitely prefer the heftier head light racquets for the one handed backhands, hence why I am really looking into the H or HD but I don't mind customizing with lead at all so the D really has my interest especially with all the great things everyone has to say. I'll definitely try it stock first and see if I want to add a couple grams anywhere, but the switch to a leather grip will likely make it perfect for me.

From what you wrote I really like the more connected feel and more "power" especially with the serves/flat serves.

With that being said, is there any big difference feel/tech wise from the new VCP models (VCP 97D or H) compared to the old ones (VCP 97HD)? The new PJ's look so good

 

[Trip]

@janelgreo - Very welcome, and based on the extra info you shared, I'd say the D is a definite must-try for you. You'll 100% notice the difference on flat serves. I would say it's also more consistent on serves overall, both first and second, due to the more solid-feeling hoop.

Notes on the one-handed backhand: I also play the 1HBH, and it's been my experience that both the HD and D play equally well for a one-hander, with perhaps a slight edge to the HD, as it affords more ability to tweak the hoop angle mid-stroke more so than the D. Nevertheless, they're both solid.

One thing I have not done is hit with the 330-class VCP's (now the "H" model for 2021), but considering you lift regularly and come from preferring 350g racquets that I would guess have an upper 320's/330-ish swing weight, I would say you'd have no problem trying and probably enjoying the '19 330 (on closeout) or '21 H, and may actually even prefer it over the HD and D, if the bit of extra spin and launch angle are welcome (from the more open 16x19 pattern). I'd venture you'll notice the similar contrast between the '19 330 and '21 H as I described between the HD and D -- a more continuous flex in the '19, and more throaty flex and slightly stiffer hoop in the '21, but I'd be interested to get confirmation on if you do try both.

When you do try the D, and especially the H, make sure to get a few long hitting sessions and/or 3-set matches played, to gauge your fatigue levels. That tends to be the main deterrent -- many of us try them and feel like rock stars in game number 1 or 2, but it's later on where our lack of mechanics and/or stamina makes it apparent that those sticks are just too much. I have a feeling that probably won't apply to you, but you obviously want to simulate as much of those situations as you can just to be sure.

Lastly, please do come back and share your experience, as I am keen to know any more details about the HD/D/H that you discover.

 

[10S-Junkie]

Wow thanks for taking the time to make this detailed comparison! I DEFINITELY have to give the VCP 97D a try and honestly may give the HD a try as well. The weight is not an issue with me, I lift regularly and before the VCore 95 I came from a 6.1 95 that weighed 352g strung (SW unsure) and I modified my VC95's to 348g strung (leather grip, 4g @12, and lead in butt cap), both with a HL balance of 10 pts. I definitely prefer the heftier head light racquets for the one handed backhands, hence why I am really looking into the H or HD but I don't mind customizing with lead at all so the D really has my interest especially with all the great things everyone has to say. I'll definitely try it stock first and see if I want to add a couple grams anywhere, but the switch to a leather grip will likely make it perfect for me.

From what you wrote I really like the more connected feel and more "power" especially with the serves/flat serves.

With that being said, is there any big difference feel/tech wise from the new VCP models (VCP 97D or H) compared to the old ones (VCP 97HD)? The new PJ's look so good

More power to you then! (pun intended )

I used to play with a 1HBH but a bout of TE forced me to change my ways. Play about 70/30 2H/1H now.

Looking forward to your reviews. Like @Trip says, you may want to try the 97H also since you can handle weight and if you prefer a bit more trajectory/spin. Will be interesting to hear which model works best for you.

 

[Parabellum]

@janelgreo - Very welcome, and based on the extra info you shared, I'd say the D is a definite must-try for you. You'll 100% notice the difference on flat serves. I would say it's also more consistent on serves overall, both first and second, due to the more solid-feeling hoop.

Notes on the one-handed backhand: I also play the 1HBH, and it's been my experience that both the HD and D play equally well for a one-hander, with perhaps a slight edge to the HD, as it affords more ability to tweak the hoop angle mid-stroke more so than the D. Nevertheless, they're both solid.

One thing I have not done is hit with the 330-class VCP's (now the "H" model for 2021), but considering you lift regularly and come from preferring 350g racquets that I would guess have an upper 320's/330-ish swing weight, I would say you'd have no problem trying and probably enjoying the '19 330 (on closeout) or '21 H, and may actually even prefer it over the HD and D, if the bit of extra spin and launch angle are welcome (from the more open 16x19 pattern). I'd venture you'll notice the similar contrast between the '19 330 and '21 H as I described between the HD and D -- a more continuous flex in the '19, and more throaty flex and slightly stiffer hoop in the '21, but I'd be interested to get confirmation on if you do try both.

When you do try the D, and especially the H, make sure to get a few long hitting sessions and/or 3-set matches played, to gauge your fatigue levels. That tends to be the main deterrent -- many of us try them and feel like rock stars in game number 1 or 2, but it's later on where our lack of mechanics and/or stamina makes it apparent that those sticks are just too much. I have a feeling that probably won't apply to you, but you obviously want to simulate as much of those situations as you can just to be sure.

Lastly, please do come back and share your experience, as I am keen to know any more details about the HD/D/H that you discover.

Thanks again! I'll look into all of those, I'll take a look at the specs of '19 330 now. And you make a GREAT point about the long hitting sessions and/or 3-set matches. Feeling great for the first few games or set is great, but when you hit the home stretch and you're not able to perform due to fatigue from the weight, then that's definitely a no go. But yes, I have a pretty strict lifting/cardio program so I'm good on both ends. I've done a few 3-4 hour sessions and a few 3-set matches with my weighted up VC95 (used to be at 353g but took a little bit of lead off the hoop) and I had zero issues. Sometimes I was even looking for more plow through LOL, maybe I need to tone it down on the spin sometimes.

I did not even notice the different string pattern with the '19 330/ '21H compared to the D and HD. I assumed they were all 18x20 lol

More power to you then! (pun intended )

I used to play with a 1HBH but a bout of TE forced me to change my ways. Play about 70/30 2H/1H now.

Looking forward to your reviews. Like @Trip says, you may want to try the 97H also since you can handle weight and if you prefer a bit more trajectory/spin. Will be interesting to hear which model works best for you.

Haha I see what you did there! Coming from the VCore series, obviously the VCore Pro's have less spin potential correct? That maybe to my benefit so I'm excited to try that.


I'm excited to try these but I think just from specs I may be leaning towards the D/HD mainly just because of the slightly lower strung weight of 337. This will give me a bit of room to add that leather grip (if needed although I like the feel) and to increase that HL balance. The 330/H I feel like if I do switch over to the leather grip it'll rocket that static weight up to almost 360g.

 

[10S-Junkie]

The 2019 330 and 2021 H have a 16x19 string pattern.

2019 HD and 97D have 18x20 but are mainly denser in the center of the stringbed and more open towards the hoop.

 

[Trip]

@janelgreo - Very welcome again. Regarding spin, it's not so much that the VCore Pro series have less spin outright, as the VCP 97 16x19's (310 and 330) are just about as open overall as the VC95, and the VCP100 approaches the VC98, but the VCP's overall are more control-biased than they are spin-deficient -- a boxier beam, higher flex, more concentrated center mains, etc. Just a different feel profile overall. It's something you have to try, then try again, then let marinate, then try yet again, kind of thing, before really forming an opinion. I can certainly tell you that if you come from a VC95 to a VCP, especially the lighter-weight VCP 97 310, you'll probably be like "what the hell is this?" on the first few hits, if not the whole session. The dwelled-but-whippy, flat-friendly feel is certainly different than the directness of the regular VCores, 95 included. Don't let it put you off, though; it's just a different animal, that I've found takes days, if not weeks, to adjust to completely. I'm intrigued to see your findings!

 

[Parabellum]

Just ordered demo's from TW, should be here in a week. They unfortunately didn't have the 97D available to try so I tested the 19' 97 330 and the 97H. Mainly to see the feel of the racquet and also the differences between each one that you pointed out @Trip I also am demo'ing the TFight RS 315, been wanting to try that one for a while.

Super excited, I'll report back when I'm done with them.

 

[Grieeegoorr]

Been a very interesting read so far, my interest has been piqued by what everyone has been saying about the 97D, I'm wondering if it may be in fact an easier to use KPS 88. Is anyone able to confirm this?

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Been a very interesting read so far, my interest has been piqued by what everyone has been saying about the 97D, I'm wondering if it may be in fact an easier to use KPS 88. Is anyone able to confirm this?

No no no no no . Nothing is an easier to use KPS 88 unless you kind of get loose with the idea of easier and just say is it easier in general. Nothing is like that stick. I used it as a serve and volley beast over a decade ago, but jeebus it's from another planet compared to anything today.

The D is in general closer to the K88 than a Pure Drive to go extreme or a blade or an ezone, but the H is on the other hand closer to the 88 than the D.

I used the K88 for 2 years, the D for about 6 months, testing the H now for fun.

If it helps anyone I would ignore the string pattern difference in the D and the H and focus purely on the weight, if you want 10 more grams or 10 fewer. If you look at a D in the sweestspot, the spacing isn't that much different than the H or any other Yonex.

 

[Grieeegoorr]

No no no no no . Nothing is an easier to use KPS 88 unless you kind of get loose with the idea of easier and just say is it easier in general. Nothing is like that stick. I used it as a serve and volley beast over a decade ago, but jeebus it's from another planet compared to anything today.

The D is in general closer to the K88 than a Pure Drive to go extreme or a blade or an ezone, but the H is on the other hand closer to the 88 than the D.

I used the K88 for 2 years, the D for about 6 months, testing the H now for fun.

If it helps anyone I would ignore the string pattern difference in the D and the H and focus purely on the weight, if you want 10 more grams or 10 fewer. If you look at a D in the sweestspot, the spacing isn't that much different than the H or any other Yonex.

Amazing serves and lovingly referred to as a log, surely you can see why parallels are drawn.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Amazing serves and lovingly referred to as a log, surely you can see why parallels are drawn.

I completely understand, but the K is 363 grams with a 345 SW, just typing that I can't believe I lugged it around lol.

 

[Chairman3]

I'm sad to say the 97HD I bought...was a dud.
Felt like a brick to play with and swing.

I know what you're thinking (this schmuck can't handle the weight) no that isn't it.
I formerly played with a RF97 (it was too heavy) and moved to a modded ultra tour coming in about 347g. Now I'm using my Ultra Pro (16m) which I had matched to my ultra tour.

I digress, bought an HD from a guy on here (good seller, absolutely NO issue there)
Had a leather grip and he had some lead at 10/2. I took the lead off because I wanted to try it stock, save for the leather grip which I would've added myself.
And I don't know it just feels way heavier than 350-ish grams. (Haven't got it on a scale yet)
It does not feel maneuverable and feels very cumbersome. The "finger-in-throat" test reveals it is plenty headlight.
I'm at a loss and disappointed. Nothing in the handle, have not taken the leather grip off to see if there is lead under it.
So, again, I'm at a loss.
I heard such great things and am disappointed, I was also a fan of the green/gold paintjob.

Just thought I'd share, and am likely going to sell it.
Probably revisit the 97D as I have demoed that and played pretty well, this time I'll use my own string in it.
Sorry for the lengthy post.

 

[Trip]

@Chairman3 - Not to doubt you (I value the feedback, any way it comes!), but your encounter does seem highly irregular. As a counter-example, my 97HD, with no weight mods, stock Yonex base grip, one Gamma Supreme overgrip, strung with Dunlop Silk Spin 17 mains and IsoSpeed Cream 17 crosses, specs at 341g static weight, 10pts head-light, 320 SW (via Briffidi SW1). Definitely a solid feel, but not what I would call overly cumbersome. Compared to my 97D, which weighs very close, with similar balance and a 321 SW (only 1 point difference), the D feels noticeably more clubby with a more rigid hoop, the HD more maneuverable (not a ton, but its perceptible on the first swing) and a more uniform flex from hoop to handle. This seems to corroborate with the vast majority of observations.

Who knows, you could have pulled a lemon, or for some reason the specific layup of the HD may just be a freakish mismatch with your biokinetics (it can happen to anyone), but I do wish you could get your hands on at least one more sample to rule out both of those things for sure... Either way, you feedback is still welcome, just a bit troublesome, as it's such an outlier...

 

[Chairman3]

@Trip I totally agree
I am really tempted and may buy a brand new one because I feel exactly the same.
My experience is exactly the opposite of what people say about it, a big part of why I'm disappointed.
I am not knocking the frame at all, simply curious on others' opinion and mostly just sharing my disappointment.

I demoed the 97D for a week and it was easier to use than this particular HD that I have.

 

[Trip]

Yeah. I would definitely try and get your hands on another HD. In the meantime, as much as you might not be used to it, I would try swapping out the leather grip for a synthetic to shave some weight and see if playability improves at all. Presuming you use an overgrip, your static weight, ready to play, should be somewhere in the high 330's to 340 gram range, per mine and most others. If you want a similar feel to leather but in a lighter package, the HEAD Ultimate replacement grip retains a lot of that feel, while weighing in at modest 18g (usually 7-10g less than most leather grips).

 

[robyrolfo]

...the D feels noticeably more clubby with a more rigid hoop, the HD more maneuverable (not a ton, but its perceptible on the first swing) and a more uniform flex from hoop to handle. This seems to corroborate with the vast majority of observations.

This is definitely my impression as well. I played a lot with my HD last week (the first time I really gave it comprehensive playing time), and it felt really maneuverable to me. Noticeably more than the D, and definitely more than my Pure Strike 18x20 (that has a lower static weight), and about the same as my wife's Pure Strike 16x19 which has an even lower static weight.

I got a little more touch/feel from the D with the slightly lower string tension (47lbs this time, down from 49lbs), and I was certainly enjoying it, but the HD just felt amazing. Fast reaction volleys, quick/last second overheads, last ditch defensive flicks... it feels so much more maneuverable to me than its static weight would suggest.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Yep, I've read about the longevity and tension maintenance, and how it makes up for the added cost. I'm not particularly hard on strings, but I do subject my racquets to some temperature changes and even some dampness. The summer months are better, but here in NY I could be practicing in temps in the 40's or 50's, and maybe dodging a puddle or two on the court.

Is there a big difference between a full bed of Natural gut as opposed to a hybrid of gut and poly? I know the latter is to try and get you more spin, with the nice feel of the gut, but is it really noticeable?

Yes, big difference, the Gut/poly will get the poly to last slightly longer and soften up the poly ,but the poly will still be a dominant influence in feel and playability.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Oh man, this makes me really want to try the 97D, looking at the 97H and HD as well... I haven't tried any VCP's, currently using the VC95 but would like to try a little larger head size and a bit more free power. Is this VCP's specifically the 97D, H, or HD good for the OHBH?

Caution, if by free power you mean more power with less muscle effort on the swing, that's headed toward the Vcore 98/100 or Ezone 98/100, to look for the D, H, HD that's headed in the opposite direction, but a higher power potential with more effort. They are all good though for OHBH, 95 you can flick it or drive it, the D, H, HD you are looking at just driving the one hander more, harder to do an accentuated wrist flick low to high.

Edit: I realize most of this was already covered after I typed the above .

 

[Trip]

@robyrolfo - Indeed. So many metrics on the HD fall into the "just ____ enough for solid _____, without too much _____" category, and together the combo is a sweet playing experience for a lot of playstyles. The 97D, for all of its similarities, feels more like a Pure Strike Tour "18x20 Lite" (but with better feel and comfort), less so a "97HD 2.0". Not a bad thing, necessarily, but it's definitely its own type of stick, rather than a direct replacement.

@FuzzyYellowBalls - Interesting notes on a fit for a 1HBH, something I play 80% of the time (20% 2HBH). The VC95 is more flickable, but one needs solid wrist and arm strength and mechanics to get much pace on any flicked backhand with it, so it's a bit of a "benefit with caveats" type of advantage in my experience. On that note, I've found that the 97HD is fairly flickable in its own right, provided you keep your setup close to 10 points head light (or lighter).

 

[Classic-TXP-IG MID]

I'm sad to say the 97HD I bought...was a dud.
Felt like a brick to play with and swing.

I know what you're thinking (this schmuck can't handle the weight) no that isn't it.
I formerly played with a RF97 (it was too heavy) and moved to a modded ultra tour coming in about 347g. Now I'm using my Ultra Pro (16m) which I had matched to my ultra tour.

I digress, bought an HD from a guy on here (good seller, absolutely NO issue there)
Had a leather grip and he had some lead at 10/2. I took the lead off because I wanted to try it stock, save for the leather grip which I would've added myself.
And I don't know it just feels way heavier than 350-ish grams. (Haven't got it on a scale yet)
It does not feel maneuverable and feels very cumbersome. The "finger-in-throat" test reveals it is plenty headlight.
I'm at a loss and disappointed. Nothing in the handle, have not taken the leather grip off to see if there is lead under it.
So, again, I'm at a loss.
I heard such great things and am disappointed, I was also a fan of the green/gold paintjob.

Just thought I'd share, and am likely going to sell it.
Probably revisit the 97D as I have demoed that and played pretty well, this time I'll use my own string in it.
Sorry for the lengthy post.

If by "felt like a brick to play with and swing" you mean too head heavy, then try tinkering with different set ups, move the weight around, check there is no additional weight added under the head guard, or inside the handle, etc. But if the brick thing is a comfort, firmness, unresponsive string bed issue... then:

There could be several reasons.

1) This racquet likes to be strung low (mid to low 40s). So, if the tension of the strings is too high, it may feel less comfortable and responsive. Try a lower tension and thinner gauge strings (1.20mm or lower).

2) This thing happened to me with the VC95 (2018) model. The use of a leather grip (and tungsten putty in the butt cap - maybe too much of it or something as it was the first time I experienced this with the use of either material) made the racquet feel really harsh and started hurting my wrist. I wanted to sell it, but then did the following:

What I would advise is to remove the leather grip and put on a synthetic grip. See if it feels more comfortable. If the racquet feels too head heavy (if that is what you meant by "plays like a brick") then try to counter balance with weight in the butt cap and at 7" above the butt cap (top of handle).

I don't know what is going on, but with my 97HD, I remember that it took some extra tinkering to get things to click, but when they did... it was a fantastic racquet that more than rewarded the effort to find the solution. Mine felt like it had quite a bit of weight in the head for the static weight it was. It wasn't a massive issue from swinging around (as most of my sticks are 350-365g static strung) but was not feeling quite right for the static and balance that it was (and compared to a G360+ Prestige MP (red one) that was supposed to have identical specs - it played much lighter and better balanced for my preferences). I added quite a bit of weight to the handle, ended up adding weight to the lower part of the head (as well as other areas), and tinkered until it clicked. Now it's a wonderful racquet with incredible capabilities that I am able to utilise... and a definite keeper.

Not sure if you're prepared to tinker and bother or not... but hopefully this was helpful.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

@FuzzyYellowBalls - Interesting observations on the appropriateness for a 1HBH; something that I play predominantly (probably 80% 1HBH, 20% 2HBH). The VC95 is more flickable, but one needs solid wrist and arm strength and mechanics to get much pace on any flicked backhand with it, so it's a bit of a "benefit with caveats" type of advantage in my experience. On that note, I've found that the 97HD is fairly flickable in its own right, provided you keep your setup close to 10 points head light (or lighter).

Yes, it's hard to describe and might be tilted more to my technique or abilities or lack thereof. I'm 6'4" so with the Vcore 95 I see the ball coming in and think "I'm gonna slam the "bleep" out of you and go up and over, through and then slam you back down into the court" with the HD or D, plus the H I tested I'm going to be more like "oh hi ball, I'm going to smash through you with a long swing and go through you and you're going to land withing 3 feet of the baseline everytime". The 95 can allow me to do an extreme cross court dipper that is also a short ball, like a baseline 1 hander that lands in front of the service line and if allowed to bounce twice the second bounce would be way outside the doubles lines. The effort to do that with the HD/D/H is much harder.
On another note, the 95 slice can be slightly less predictable than the slice of the others, just due to their weight they settle down the trajectory into a more predictable band of possibilities.

 

[Chairman3]

@Classic-TXP-IG MID I definitely appreciate the input and advice.
As far as "felt like a brick" just envision for a second you are literally swinging a brick, heavy, cumbersome, difficult to get moving and that is what I mean.
Basically seems like the swingweight must be very high. My racquets I'd been using were 335-340 SW and was looking to drop about 10 points off that with a new racquet.

I was looking forward to a maneuverable frame in this HD and it is just not what I got.
It's strung with gut/poly, not sure the tension but sounds like it is in the 50's, so that could have a big impact, like you said.
I'll probably tinker a bit since I already own it, but may just sell and buy a brand new one to start fresh, since they're still around

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

@Classic-TXP-IG MID I definitely appreciate the input and advice.
As far as "felt like a brick" just envision for a second you are literally swinging a brick, heavy, cumbersome, difficult to get moving and that is what I mean.
Basically seems like the swingweight must be very high. My racquets I'd been using were 335-340 SW and was looking to drop about 10 points off that with a new racquet.

I was looking forward to a maneuverable frame in this HD and it is just not what I got.
It's strung with gut/poly, not sure the tension but sounds like it is in the 50's, so that could have a big impact, like you said.
I'll probably tinker a bit since I already own it, but may just sell and buy a brand new one to start fresh, since they're still around

I'm not sure how, but I think you got an "off" HD. The fact that you tried a D and found it easier to swing than an HD is even further proof. The D is about 5% less maneuverable.

 

[Trip]

@FuzzyYellowBalls - I completely get what you're saying re- the difference vs. the 95; the maneuverability and telepathic precision give it amazing angle and spin capabilities. That said, for my game at least, I find downsides vs the HD/D in the form of less lateral stability and access to easy power. I would presume, though, that those issues tend to rear their heads more for those of us with lower skill levels, strength and or timing sense, but I even see the likes of Marcos Giron having trouble at certain times in matches, and I can't help but wonder if he might be better off with a VC98, 100 or VCP 97... but I digress; it's of course our own bodies and skills that vastly outweigh any of this stuff. Still, interesting to delve into all of it as we move along!

[...]The D is about 5% less maneuverable.

From my experience, and this may be splitting hairs on a purely subjective "percentage", to me it feels about 10-15% less maneuverable. FWIW, I've left both frames unmodified w/ lead or putty, static weights are within 1 gram (340-341), balances are within 1 mm, and swing weights are within 1 pt (320 for the HD, 321 for the D).

 

[Chairman3]

I'm not sure how, but I think you got an "off" HD. The fact that you tried a D and found it easier to swing than an HD is even further proof. The D is about 5% less maneuverable.

Exactly my thought, Yonex has good QC but not necessarily over swingweight. I think that's been experienced with the new models as well.
TW changed the "average SW" on the 310 model based on additional samples tested

 

[10S-Junkie]

Exactly my thought, Yonex has good QC but not necessarily over swingweight. I think that's been experienced with the new models as well.
TW changed the "average SW" on the 310 model based on additional samples tested

Just chiming in with my 2 cents. My 97HD and 2 97D's all have swingweights in the low 320's. Try to weigh the racquet to confirm if it's heavier than it should be. Any chance the seller may have put more weight under the grommets or elsewhere and forgot to mention it?

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Exactly my thought, Yonex has good QC but not necessarily over swingweight. I think that's been experienced with the new models as well.
TW changed the "average SW" on the 310 model based on additional samples tested

Yeah, this is a small sample size, but for information purposes I had my HD and D matched with the matching service and SW were all within 2 of each other. I think the SW strangeness TW experienced on the H and the Vcore 95 was an outlier, I also had Vcore 95s matched, same result, almost exactly the same stats on a sample of 6. Maybe, just a hunch, maybe the rackets TW got for their testing videos were the initial run of the rackets because their Vcore 95 and H testers were almost 10 points off on SW, who knows.

 

[Chairman3]

@10S-Junkie
I intend to weigh it in the next day or so.
I asked if he put lead under the grip, he didn't think so but couldn't remember.
I haven't bothered taking the grip off to check because it's kind of a pain to put back on.

As I said before, I'm mostly just shocked and disappointed because I was really excited about finally getting on.

 

[10S-Junkie]

@10S-Junkie
I intend to weigh it in the next day or so.
I asked if he put lead under the grip, he didn't think so but couldn't remember.
I haven't bothered taking the grip off to check because it's kind of a pain to put back on.

As I said before, I'm mostly just shocked and disappointed because I was really excited about finally getting on.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.
As you can see from this thread and the poll so far, the VCP 97HD has a loyal following and most find it a bit more maneuverable than the 97D.

 

[mhkeuns]

Played with a buddy’s Vcore Pro 100. Loved its feel and control for being a 100” racket. Debated between the 100 and the 97 and decided to get the 97D. Took the grip off and replaced it with a leather grip. If it plays anywhere close to the 100 with more pin-point control, I’d be more than satisfied. Looking for a back up to the G360+ Prestige MP that is close in power & control.

 

[Trip]

@mhkeuns - I have both the G360+ Prestige MP and the 97D. I think you'll find the 97D a bit more muted, but a bit more stable and powerful. Control is similar. Flex profile is more continuous in the MP, more throat-centric flex with a stiffer hoop in the 97D. Presuming swing weights are equalized, the 97D is capable of hitting a slightly heavier ball, especially on serve. Launch angles are similar. 97D works better with a slightly more crisp string; MP can do well with a wider range of strings. If playing full-bed poly, both play better with thinner gauges in my experience.

Hope that quick comparison is helpful!

 

[robyrolfo]

From my experience, and this may be splitting hairs on a purely subjective "percentage", to me it feels about 10-15% less maneuverable. FWIW, I've left both frames unmodified w/ lead or putty, static weights are within 1 gram (340-341), balances are within 1 mm, and swing weights are within 1 pt (320 for the HD, 321 for the D).

Yes, I would tend to agree with this. It's hard to put an exact number on the difference in maneuverability, but at least for my two examples the added maneuverability of the HD over the D is definitely noticeable enough that I would put it closer to 10-15% than 5% (although, as you said, we are pretty much splitting hairs at this point).

My racquets are also really close in static specs (I can't measure SW), so difference I'm getting in feel is a little baffling to me. That said, it's making me want to seek out and try an example of a D that happens to be a little under spec in weight and SW. To complicate matters further, my local shop is selling their demo 2019 Green 97 310 for $100. I'm playing head games with myself!