You didn't play bad in a vacuum.

[HunterST]

This is a quote I heard on the Everything About Tennis Podcast with Andy Gerst. The guest was actually talking about how people will say Federer and other top players lost because "they played terrible."

This is something I always think of when other people (or I) lose and go to the old refrain of "oh man, I just played awful."

Obviously we all play better some days than others, but I think it often has more to do with the opponent than we like to admit. Being honest with yourself about why you lost is important. If you just try to let on that it's a fluke, you can't learn from it.

What are your thoughts? Do you believe in "bad days" do the degree where you could lose to a far inferior player? Is "oh, I just played bad" ever an honest assessment?

 

[FRV]

Well, being a low level player, the way I see it is that the greater difference in ability between me and the opponent, the more the loss is my fault. This is probably common sense. I don't know about "bad days", but I've certainly had bad strategies and have ended up losing to players I should've (maybe just could've) beaten. What I'm trying to say is when I'm far superior to the player I am facing, it usually feels like the ball is in my court, so to speak.

 

[FRV]

I do hate it when people say "I'm playing so bad" as if I am not giving them a whoopin. Well, at least that's what used to happen sometimes (maybe just once). I actually don't play anymore.

 

[HunterST]

Well, being a low level player, the way I see it is that the greater difference in ability between me and the opponent, the more the loss is my fault. This is probably common sense. I don't know about "bad days", but I've certainly had bad strategies and have ended up losing to players I should've (maybe just could've) beaten. What I'm trying to say is when I'm far superior to the player I am facing, it usually feels like the ball is in my court, so to speak.

Yeah, there's obviously an element of both. Just like the quote says, though, you never play badly just completely on your own. The opponent is doing something to beat you, whether that's giving you paces and spins you don't like or just being steady.

The one area I guess you could really point to as "on your own" is serving. The opponent could do things to mess with you psychologically on the serve, I suppose, but it's still you tossing and hitting it.

 

[FRV]

Yeah, there's obviously an element of both. Just like the quote says, though, you never play badly just completely on your own. The opponent is doing something to beat you, whether that's giving you paces and spins you don't like or just being steady.

The one area I guess you could really point to as "on your own" is serving. The opponent could do things to mess with you psychologically on the serve, I suppose, but it's still you tossing and hitting it.

I guess the way I look at it, is that the opponent is just being themselves. They have a style of play, and they're not going to change it up to beat me. I'm usually the one changing things up as I am the more advanced player. That is how it usually goes with me and lower level players. They may start slicing or whatever, but they don't really have different types of slices or different types of topspin forehands. It should've been easy enough for me to deal with.

I think what you're saying holds more truth at higher levels though. I think Kevin Anderson once said his own top level is as good as Federer's or Nadal's, but he just can't sustain it as long. He may have been exaggerating a bit, but it gives your idea more weight.

 

[HunterST]

I guess the way I look at it, is that the opponent is just being themselves. They have a style of play, and they're not going to change it up to beat me. I'm usually the one changing things up as I am the more advanced player. That is how it usually goes with me and lower level players. They may start slicing or whatever, but they don't really have different types of slices or different types of topspin forehands. It should've been easy enough for me to deal with.

I think what you're saying holds more truth at higher levels though. I think Kevin Anderson once said his own top level is as good as Federer's or Nadal's, but he just can't sustain it as long. He may have been exaggerating a bit, but it gives your idea more weight.

I think the statement still stands with what you’re talking about. Yes, you did play badly if you lose to someone, but, honestly, we’re Rec players. We always play kind of bad.

The implication of “ugh I just played terrible” is that some unusual fluke happened. By some freak occurrence, they played terribly and someone who would never beat them otherwise, did.

I’d say, more often than not, losses are not flukes.

 

[FRV]

I think the statement still stands with what you’re talking about. Yes, you did play badly if you lose to someone, but, honestly, we’re Rec players. We always play kind of bad.

The implication of “ugh I just played terrible” is that some unusual fluke happened. By some freak occurrence, they played terribly and someone who would never beat them otherwise, did.

I’d say, more often than not, losses are not flukes.

Oh, for sure, I agree that usually losses are not flukes.

 

[FiReFTW]

Theres a huge difference when you know you were outplayed and when you know you had tons of easy chances and wasted them.

 

[Dragy]

Theres a huge difference when you know you were outplayed and when you know you had tons of easy chances and wasted them.

When it’s extreme, yes. But also pretty wide range in-between, where it’s frequently ill interpreted.

 

[HunterST]

Theres a huge difference when you know you were outplayed and when you know you had tons of easy chances and wasted them.

Often you miss those chances because of legitimate holes in your game that the opponent found a way to expose.

 

[FiReFTW]

Often you miss those chances because of legitimate holes in your game that the opponent found a way to expose.

Like double faults or missing sitters above net or overheads?

You know you can legitimately play bad right? Infact there are times that both players play bad.

 

[Dragy]

Like double faults or missing sitters above net or overheads?

You know you can legitimately play bad right? Infact there are times that both players play bad.

If I’m DFing, missing sitters and OHs, it’s not me playing bad (having bad day), it’s me having holes in my games, be they triggered by whatever cause. Nole smashes into the net are a Hole in his game. Not having bad day.
Roger never DFs himself into lost matches, even if he screws almost everything else and cannot keep up with his opponent. Occasional DF in a crucial game isn’t same, BTW.

 

[FiReFTW]

If I’m DFing, missing sitters and OHs, it’s not me playing bad (having bad day), it’s me having holes in my games, be they triggered by whatever cause. Nole smashes into the net are a Hole in his game. Not having bad day.
Roger never DFs himself into lost matches, even if he screws almost everything else and cannot keep up with his opponent. Occasional DF in a crucial game isn’t same, BTW.

I never said doing it constantly. I said doing it in important key points during the match.
In tennis theres a small margin from win and defeat and a small margin from 6:3 to 6:1.. a few key points.

There were plenty of times when fed played badly and missed a ton and messed up many easy key points, not due to opponent being better but do to him playing very bad.

 

[Kobble]

Of course there are bad days. lol Anyone who has ever trained in a measurable sport like running, strength training, etc. knows this.

 

[HunterST]

Like double faults or missing sitters above net or overheads?

You know you can legitimately play bad right? Infact there are times that both players play bad.

Obviously your performance on a given day can vary. That’s obvious.

But read the thread title. You didn’t play badly in a vacuum. Too many players say a loss was because of an inexplicable bad performance rather than acknowledging their opponent had anything to do with the loss.

It’s a coping mechanism. It’s hard to admit you were beaten fair and square. It’s much easier to say it was a fluke that would never happen again.

 

[NLBwell]

My game was always to overpower the opponent. I could hit winners from anywhere on the court and could hit errors no matter how easy a sitter. I've figured out that the main problem was if I was moving my head or not. This is not in the opponent's control.
Winning or losing was pretty much under my control.
A speedy player could cut my margin of error, but it was an extremely rare case where I played well and lost.

 

[r2473]

My opponent is unbelievable and I’ll have to play my best tennis to have a chance, no

 

[HunterST]

My game was always to overpower the opponent. I could hit winners from anywhere on the court and could hit errors no matter how easy a sitter. I've figured out that the main problem was if I was moving my head or not. This is not in the opponent's control.
Winning or losing was pretty much under my control.
A speedy player could cut my margin of error, but it was an extremely rare case where I played well and lost.

So your opponent played shots consistently that took advantage of your bad habit of moving your head too early, right?

 

[Dartagnan64]

Every loss is because I sucked, the racket sucked, the strings were the wrong tension so they sucked, my partner sucked, the lighting sucked, the courts sucked. But never because the opponent sucked.

Seriously, it's more confidence building to believe you just had an off day than to believe you aren't good enough. So people choose to delude themselves to keep their confidence up.

As a realist I'm well aware of when I'm playing poorly or more importantly, stupidly. I'm also well aware of when my opponent is better than I am. Those things are not mutually exclusive.

 

[NLBwell]

So your opponent played shots consistently that took advantage of your bad habit of moving your head too early, right?

That's silly

 

[HunterST]

That's silly

You're silly.

 

[Wise one]

This is a quote I heard on the Everything About Tennis Podcast with Andy Gerst. The guest was actually talking about how people will say Federer and other top players lost because "they played terrible."

This is something I always think of when other people (or I) lose and go to the old refrain of "oh man, I just played awful."

Obviously we all play better some days than others, but I think it often has more to do with the opponent than we like to admit. Being honest with yourself about why you lost is important. If you just try to let on that it's a fluke, you can't learn from it.

What are your thoughts? Do you believe in "bad days" do the degree where you could lose to a far inferior player? Is "oh, I just played bad" ever an honest assessment?

I used to play very badly on occasion, but not so much anymore. Even when I get beat, I play decently. Mostly, it's just experience and playing within my limits. I don't care if I win or lose, really, and that helps.

 

[5263]

This is a quote I heard on the Everything About Tennis Podcast with Andy Gerst. The guest was actually talking about how people will say Federer and other top players lost because "they played terrible."

This is something I always think of when other people (or I) lose and go to the old refrain of "oh man, I just played awful."

Obviously we all play better some days than others, but I think it often has more to do with the opponent than we like to admit. Being honest with yourself about why you lost is important. If you just try to let on that it's a fluke, you can't learn from it.

What are your thoughts? Do you believe in "bad days" do the degree where you could lose to a far inferior player? Is "oh, I just played bad" ever an honest assessment?

I think this is a top post...

 

[thehustler]

It depends. It depends on your game, your opponents game, how you normally play, how they normally play, etc. I've had bad days where I can't hit the broad side of a barn. Where all my normal shots just miss. Where it's nothing that my opponent is doing, it's just me missing and no matter the adjustment I just can't get a ball in. I've also had days where my opponent is on fire more than usual, where they hit the lines, hit more winners and nothing I do can stop them. That's just a good day on their end and bad playing on my end, but by no means a bad day. If you're a counter puncher who retrieves well behind the baseline, but your opponent comes into the net and volleys your shots away or hits great dropshots and you don't adjust, then that's not a bad day on your end, it's just a failure to adjust. Conversely if you can retrieve every shot and your opponent isn't doing anything out of the ordinary and you're just missing a lot more than usual then it's a bad day. I think we all truly know when we're having a 'bad day' and when we're getting our rears kicked. Some people just like to make excuses instead of giving credit when credit is due.

 

[Wise one]

It depends. It depends on your game, your opponents game, how you normally play, how they normally play, etc. I've had bad days where I can't hit the broad side of a barn. Where all my normal shots just miss. Where it's nothing that my opponent is doing, it's just me missing and no matter the adjustment I just can't get a ball in. I've also had days where my opponent is on fire more than usual, where they hit the lines, hit more winners and nothing I do can stop them. That's just a good day on their end and bad playing on my end, but by no means a bad day. If you're a counter puncher who retrieves well behind the baseline, but your opponent comes into the net and volleys your shots away or hits great dropshots and you don't adjust, then that's not a bad day on your end, it's just a failure to adjust. Conversely if you can retrieve every shot and your opponent isn't doing anything out of the ordinary and you're just missing a lot more than usual then it's a bad day. I think we all truly know when we're having a 'bad day' and when we're getting our rears kicked. Some people just like to make excuses instead of giving credit when credit is due.

Yep. I played yesterday against an opponent whom I have beaten before. We played 8-game pro set. I didn't get a game. I can say it was my first singles match this year. I tend to get better as the season progresses. So, I'm not worried.

 

[HunterST]

It depends. It depends on your game, your opponents game, how you normally play, how they normally play, etc. I've had bad days where I can't hit the broad side of a barn. Where all my normal shots just miss. Where it's nothing that my opponent is doing, it's just me missing and no matter the adjustment I just can't get a ball in. I've also had days where my opponent is on fire more than usual, where they hit the lines, hit more winners and nothing I do can stop them. That's just a good day on their end and bad playing on my end, but by no means a bad day. If you're a counter puncher who retrieves well behind the baseline, but your opponent comes into the net and volleys your shots away or hits great dropshots and you don't adjust, then that's not a bad day on your end, it's just a failure to adjust. Conversely if you can retrieve every shot and your opponent isn't doing anything out of the ordinary and you're just missing a lot more than usual then it's a bad day. I think we all truly know when we're having a 'bad day' and when we're getting our rears kicked. Some people just like to make excuses instead of giving credit when credit is due.

Yep. I played yesterday against an opponent whom I have beaten before. We played 8-game pro set. I didn't get a game. I can say it was my first singles match this year. I tend to get better as the season progresses. So, I'm not worried.

I don't think it does depend.

No matter what, if you lost a match, it was not in a vacuum. You had to hit to your opponent and he had to return your shots. I think some people are misinterpreting this as me saying that a loss always means your opponent outhit you, or that they always used some incredible strategy to make you miss. That's not the claim. The claim is, very simply, that you did not play badly entirely on your own. And, importantly, you can probably learn from what happened rather than just declaring it a fluke bad day.

 

[Wise one]

I don't think it does depend.

No matter what, if you lost a match, it was not in a vacuum. You had to hit to your opponent and he had to return your shots. I think some people are misinterpreting this as me saying that a loss always means your opponent outhit you, or that they always used some incredible strategy to make you miss. That's not the claim. The claim is, very simply, that you did not play badly entirely on your own. And, importantly, you can probably learn from what happened rather than just declaring it a fluke bad day.

Well, hitting easy volleys wide is my fault alone.

 

[HunterST]

Well, hitting easy volleys wide is my fault alone.

Didn't you play a point with an opponent to get to the net? Didn't the opponent hit the ball over the net for you to volley? Did you lose literally every point by hitting an easy volley wide or double faulting?

I'm not saying you didn't play below what you're capable of. I'm just saying there might have been a little more to it than just an inexplicable fluke.

 

[thehustler]

I see it as you can have a few really good days a year, a few really dumpy days and the rest make you what you are. On those days where you play like crap and it's nothing that the opponent is doing you just throw those days out. Those really bad days are you at a level below your normal play. Same with the really good days. The really good days where everything clicks are basically days of you playing at the next level. Those are the days that show you what you'd be like at that level. The rest is what you are. At that point you basically know when you're at your worst and when you're at your very best. I've had those days where I've played a level up. It's amazing. Every shot hits, every serve is placed perfectly with the spin. Tough shots are winners, no look shots are winners, serves spin above your opponent's shoulders, etc. It's glorious. Your opponent isn't having a bad day (well they kind are because you leveled up) but it's thru no fault of their own. You feel like you're playing with that God racket from that commercial from years ago. It might even feel like you're playing with the same racket when you have a bad day, except it's just a racket with a small head and you can't hit squat in the court to save your life.

While it is true that you hit the ball and your opponent hit the ball that's it. If things are the same, if there's no difference, if your opponent is hitting the same old shots with the same pace and placement and you're just playing like crap then you're just playing like crap. If your opponent is forcing the issue and you don't adjust, then that's on you and isn't a bad day, it's just bad play by you. Like I said before we all know when we get beat and when we beat ourselves. We also know when we're playing below, to and above our abilities. It happens in any sport. You can play basketball, be open on every shot in your favorite spot and just miss. You can go 1-20. That's a bad night. Next night can be the same thing and you can go 11-15 and that's a great night. Next night you're 7-19 and that's just an average night. Sometimes it's the opponent. Sometimes it's you.

 

[Wise one]

Didn't you play a point with an opponent to get to the net? Didn't the opponent hit the ball over the net for you to volley? Did you lose literally every point by hitting an easy volley wide or double faulting?

I'm not saying you didn't play below what you're capable of. I'm just saying there might have been a little more to it than just an inexplicable fluke.

Well, let's say I have played better against this particular opponent before.