'You don't get better playing college tennis."

[JStar7]

I heard this from a kid that currently plays D3. He told me that you basically train all summer to get really good, then when the fall and winter comes you don't play as much because its cold outside, with the exception of those who go to schools like USC, Miami, etc. Because of that you get slightly worse, yet stronger because your required to train in the gym and run. Then spring comes and you plateau because you play matches. Then summer summer comes and you have to train again to get better, hence the cycle repeats. He said thats why all the good players choose to train instead of going to college. He also said thats why there's very few success stories of kids making it big after going to college. Just wanted to know how anybody else thinks about that.

 

[tennisjon]

I can see why some people may say that. I coach at Drew University in Madison, New Jersey. We are a D3 school that has won their conference 10 straight years. I would say that 90% of our players get better over the years. They get stronger, get better technique, get better shot selection, and learn how to compete better.

We have indoor courts on campus, so this helps the players to be able to play even as it gets colder. Many schools have indoor courts on campus, but there is either limited access available, or they aren't really suited for tennis.

From playing the same schools over the years I would say that many kids who played a lot of tournaments and took many lessons in high school, but go to a college that is not coached well or lacks the facilities, decline in their abilities or don't improve significantly over the years.

This is why its important to do your research on schools. Find out about the access to court time in the off season. Find out if the coach is full time. Does the coach know a lot about tennis? Does he/she coach during practices and matches?

 

[cmutennis10]

You talk about a kid who's in D3 commenting on why kids in college don't go pro...not a whole lot of correlation there but I will address both areas.

I would agree that the majority of good juniors who go D3 get weaker or stay the same. This is simply due to schoolwork. You can't play for 3 hours, condition for an hour and then study for 4 hours. Just not enough hours in the day. You need to be an exceptional individual to be outstanding in both school and tennis. I would bet the majority of your really top D3 players don't have great grades. At schools such as USC, Duke and Vanderbilt (academically strong D1 schools), there are watered down classes that the athletes can take. These don't exist at Chicago, Amherst, etc. Every class is challenging. You rarely see a kid who truly blossoms playing D3 tennis and it's because tennis is only their mind when they are on the courts. I don't think it has anything to do with weather, as your friend mentioned. Middlebury played Amherst in the final this year. Both in New England. All the top programs in the country have readily available indoor courts so I don't see this as an issue. Most of your good students, including D3 players, have internships during the summer, so I would say they actually become out of practice when they aren't in school.

As far as kids not going pro out of college, I think it's just pure numbers. There are 6 (not sure?) Americans in the top 100. 2 of them played college (Isner and Ram). Maybe 1 American who finishes school every 4 years will break the top 100. Your chances just aren't very good. If you want to talk about the minor league pro circuit, the summer US futures are flooded with college players during the summer and former college players all year round. You all see a decent amount of former college players in Challengers (Michael Yani and Robert Kendrick). Addressing whether D1 players get better, I think it just has to do with work ethic and level of caring about tennis. Guys like Alex Clayton (Stanford), Jared Pinsky (Duke) and Kellen Damico (Texas) were better when they entered college than they are now for whatever reason. Then you have Josh Graves (Northwestern), Abe Souza (Illinois) and Drake Bernstein (UGA) who were 2nd or 3rd level juniors that absolutely blossomed during college while playing indoors. Granted they aren't good enough to be top 100 pros, but they definitely got a whole lot better during college tennis. You get out of it what you put in, so I would argue that whoever gave you that advice is incorrect. It really has nothing to do with cold versus warm weather, it just has to do with how much time you devote to tennis and whether you're indoors or outdoors I don't think matters.

 

[Jonny S&V]

Then you have Josh Graves (Northwestern), Abe Souza (Illinois) and Drake Bernstein (UGA) who were 2nd or 3rd level juniors that absolutely blossomed during college while playing indoors.

Very true, I watched him my freshman and sophomore year of high school (he was two years ahead of me) and he was just a solid player with no real weapon. Now his forehand is a major weapon and his backhand is completely unwavering, not to mention his serves.

You get out of it what you put in, so I would argue that whoever gave you that advice is incorrect. It really has nothing to do with cold versus warm weather, it just has to do with how much time you devote to tennis and whether you're indoors or outdoors I don't think matters.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Larrysümmers]

I play with a kid who just finished his first year at a jr college. His shots seem to be way better. Deeper and heavier. Net game went way up. Now this school only trains in the season. So from like febuary to may.
So I can't see a d3 player not getting better when they practice all that time

 

[cmb]

you know it really depends on the program. I see Jarmere Jenkins has imrpoved this year at UVA, made the finals of the last futures event in Rochester. But you have to remember its Virginia, Schools like Virginia, UGA, UCLA, Baylor, basically the top 3 percent...they run practices like pros. Its not the whole lets waste 3 hours as a team practice running through drills and standing in line. Its more 1 on 1 hitting sessions and professional practice sessions focusing on what the players needs to do to play his best tennis.

The schools that have the typical team practice with drills that don't do anything, and then add a coach who doesn't know anything or doesn't care, but the worst combo is the coach who knows nothing, but still is a controlling ******. You will probably not improve your game that these schools.

I may sound like a ****** myself, but I think that most of the small time coaches that are posting here fall somewhere in the second category, therefore they are part of the problem with college tennis.

 

[Joeyg]

you know it really depends on the program. I see Jarmere Jenkins has imrpoved this year at UVA, made the finals of the last futures event in Rochester. But you have to remember its Virginia, Schools like Virginia, UGA, UCLA, Baylor, basically the top 3 percent...they run practices like pros. Its not the whole lets waste 3 hours as a team practice running through drills and standing in line. Its more 1 on 1 hitting sessions and professional practice sessions focusing on what the players needs to do to play his best tennis.

The schools that have the typical team practice with drills that don't do anything, and then add a coach who doesn't know anything or doesn't care, but the worst combo is the coach who knows nothing, but still is a controlling ******. You will probably not improve your game that these schools.

I may sound like a ****** myself, but I think that most of the small time coaches that are posting here fall somewhere in the second category, therefore they are part of the problem with college tennis.

Wow! You do sound like an .......Bitter, perhaps?

 

[cmb]

damn right, I arrived at college and I saw my whole practiced wasted on team drills and the coach stopping play to talk every 15 minutes. Thats not how good players practice. Go watch any pro practice seriously, not when they are messing around. and u will see.

3 semesters and I was outta there. and we were ranked in the top 10 D1 so its a program people would think is one of the better ones.

 

[cmb]

and to be clear I did play in the lineup, its not like I was filling up the water jugs

 

[polski]

It has more to do with the individual than the program...at any level. If the kid puts in the work, he will get better. If he lets his focus slide into other areas (I'm thinking partying mostly) then clearly he will not live up to his potential.

There are good & bad coaches at every level of college tennis, but I think this is a secondary issue to the player's desire to get better. If a kid puts in the team's work and then works on his own as well, he will become better.

 

[BounceHitBounceHit]

I heard this from a kid that currently plays D3. He told me that you basically train all summer to get really good, then when the fall and winter comes you don't play as much because its cold outside, with the exception of those who go to schools like USC, Miami, etc. Because of that you get slightly worse, yet stronger because your required to train in the gym and run. Then spring comes and you plateau because you play matches. Then summer summer comes and you have to train again to get better, hence the cycle repeats. He said thats why all the good players choose to train instead of going to college. He also said thats why there's very few success stories of kids making it big after going to college. Just wanted to know how anybody else thinks about that.

As a college athlete you can still enter and compete in pro tournaments, so it can be a viable option, especially if you attend a good D1 school with top quality facilities that plays in a highly competitive conference. Remember this-the VAST majority of apiring young players do NOT make it as pros period, whether going to college first or straight to the tour. At least with the college path you can get a great education for free! BHBH

 

[EP1998]

it is both the program and the individual. there isnt one answer and there are a lot of viewpoints to this question depending upon what you thought going in, your playing background and what you expect to do afterward. also what you do in the summers.

 

[EP1998]

As a college athlete you can still enter and compete in pro tournaments, so it can be a viable option, especially if you attend a good D1 school with top quality facilities that plays in a highly competitive conference. Remember this-the VAST majority of apiring young players do NOT make it as pros period, whether going to college first or straight to the tour. At least with the college path you can get a great education for free! BHBH

You can play pros along with college but there are some risks with that. It is hard to manage when to peak and for a chunk of the year you aren't in 100 percent control over your training. If you're on the circuit you can skip hardcourts for a lot of the year, in college that is all you've got. so unless you do clay tournaments only in the summer, which is hard to do because of the transition time, you're playing on hard courts all year. ouch!

 

[Kick_It]

Lots of good feedback here. From my point of view:

Hard to judge. Don't know where said individual started out, where they wanted to end up, or how realistic their expectations were.

I absolutely improved at tennis in college - great coach, environment, facilities, practice partners, and competition.

Absolutely agree with prior comment that it is what you make of it - as someone who didn't sacrifice academics for athletics.

Good Luck! K_I

 

[Gemini]

It really does depend on the player and the program. I was a solid junior though my choice to play college tennis was a "last minute" decision. I became a much better player as it (college tennis) changed my mental aptitude on the court which translated to a physical change as well.

 

[johnkidd]

you know it really depends on the program. I see Jarmere Jenkins has imrpoved this year at UVA, made the finals of the last futures event in Rochester. But you have to remember its Virginia, Schools like Virginia, UGA, UCLA, Baylor, basically the top 3 percent...they run practices like pros. Its not the whole lets waste 3 hours as a team practice running through drills and standing in line. Its more 1 on 1 hitting sessions and professional practice sessions focusing on what the players needs to do to play his best tennis.

I knew a guy who played for UVA in the '90's and he ended up transferring. They have only become a top tier team over the past few years. ClarkC can probably elaborate on this more, but Boyd Tinsley from the Dave Matthews band gave the school and the local club a bunch of money so they could upgrade the facilities.

 

[EP1998]

Boyd Tinsley is awesome. he has a women's tournament too.

 

[SChamp]

I heard this from a kid that currently plays D3. He told me that you basically train all summer to get really good, then when the fall and winter comes you don't play as much because its cold outside, with the exception of those who go to schools like USC, Miami, etc. Because of that you get slightly worse, yet stronger because your required to train in the gym and run. Then spring comes and you plateau because you play matches. Then summer summer comes and you have to train again to get better, hence the cycle repeats. He said thats why all the good players choose to train instead of going to college. He also said thats why there's very few success stories of kids making it big after going to college. Just wanted to know how anybody else thinks about that.

That might be what he does at his school but that is not what every school does. He makes broad generalizations which are also false.

The players that have a legitimate shot at going pro in tennis have already turned pro by the time they would be enrolling in college.

As far as why college players don't get better...I'd say it's a combination of a bunch of things. It's tough to maintain focus with so many distractions in 12 oz aluminum cans and/or wearing mini skirts. I'd be willing to bet that there are very few top notch coaches on the college level too.

 

[cmb]

^^^u do know that pros do their fair share of partying and chasing the muff around.

 

[35ft6]

He might have a point, but anybody playing in D3 doesn't have serious pro aspirations (unless you're Butorac).

But for top D-1 guys, it's like being able to play a Futures qualifier every week while getting free top quality coaching, plus diet and physical training advice.

 

[ClarkC]

I heard this from a kid that currently plays D3. He told me that you basically train all summer to get really good, then when the fall and winter comes you don't play as much because its cold outside, with the exception of those who go to schools like USC, Miami, etc. Because of that you get slightly worse, yet stronger because your required to train in the gym and run. Then spring comes and you plateau because you play matches. Then summer summer comes and you have to train again to get better, hence the cycle repeats. He said thats why all the good players choose to train instead of going to college. He also said thats why there's very few success stories of kids making it big after going to college. Just wanted to know how anybody else thinks about that.

If that were true, then those of us who follow a top Division I team would all be thinking that our seniors are not any better than we remember them as freshmen.

At Virginia, that is absurd. Every senior I have seen is significantly better than he was as a freshman.

At other schools that I know as opponents, it is also untrue. Compare Dimitar Kutrovsky from freshman year to senior year at Texas. Watch Steve Johnson improve at USC, Chase Buchanan at Ohio State, and Casey Watt at Notre Dame, just from freshman year to sophomore year. Note that Notre Dame and Ohio State are examples from colder climates.

Jean-Yves Aubone at Florida State, Reid Carleton at Duke are a couple of examples from our ACC opponents that I have watched for several years. Amit Inbar at UCLA for the last two years (after one year at Maryland). I see players improving all over the country.

 

[jgravagna]

You don't get better playing college tennis

I disagree with this thread. I am the asst w tennis coach at queens college in nyc. All of our players improve between 2 - 4 levels during their 4 yrs in college. We are ranked in the top 30 in the nation in DII and made the sweet 16 this year. Lastly, we beat many D1 teams.