You should play mini tennis.

ptuanminh said:
True. But its some information we can get. :)
The other day i was playing a new player. His baseline hitting was below average. We played a 21 point game and he could only win 3 points. But its totally different when we played a set. With a good serve, his S&V C&C game totally threw me off. It was a lot harder than i anticipate. Valuable lesson i learnt.
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Yep ... the contest is a winning matches contest.

I was fooled both ways during tournament warmups ... guys that looked so good in warm up I expected to get killed but they folded under pressure ... AND guys that looked like an easy win that were anything but. I looked for a couple of things during warm up 1) backhand at baseline 2) a guess on how well they could move 3) overheads. For the most part, if you were watching tournament match warm ups from outside the court and you didn't know either player ... you have no idea.
 
ptuanminh said:
True. But its some information we can get. :)
The other day i was playing a new player. His baseline hitting was below average. We played a 21 point game and he could only win 3 points. But its totally different when we played a set. With a good serve, his S&V C&C game totally threw me off. It was a lot harder than i anticipate. Valuable lesson i learnt.
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Having good groundstrokes doesn't always mean good passing shots ... particularly these days with more topspin and safer targets. Passing shots are a precision shot under pressure. A player with great groundstrokes AND great passing shots are often 5.0+. You always knew you were in trouble when you came in behind your best kick serve to their bh, or your best approach deep to their bh and they casually passed you with average pace. Uh oh!!!

edit: btw ... in 4.5 singles it was surprising how often players with less than pretty strokes were tough against s&v. Not talking about lobbers ... but always low volley, would hit the pass when it was there for them, would not make many UEs going for passing shots they didn't have.
 
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ByeByePoly said:
Having good groundstrokes doesn't always mean good passing shots ... particularly these days with more topspin and safer targets. Passing shots are a precision shot under pressure. A player with great groundstrokes AND great passing shots are often 5.0+. You always knew you were in trouble when you came in behind your best kick serve to their bh, or your best approach deep to their bh and they casually passed you with average pace. Uh oh!!!
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I've been on the "getting passed" end of that many times!
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
I've been on the "getting passed" end of that many times!
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Yeah ... you know getting passed is expected ... if you win 7/10 of those passing situations you win. So all of us s&v players have that calculation/prediction going on in our head. If the guy is easily passing you on your best stuff ... and enough times to know 7/10 is going his direction, your last hope is his legs get tired in time in the 2nd set. 8-B
 
Knox said:
I was introduced to *true* mini-tennis by my college coach. By 'true' I mean full swinging with heavy topspin-- NOT dink-ball.
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Very difficult for adult rec players. I want to see video of 3.5 players doing this.
:(
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ByeByePoly said:
Yeah ... you know getting passed is expected ... if you win 7/10 of those passing situations you win. So all of us s&v players have that calculation/prediction going on in our head. If the guy is easily passing you on your best stuff ... and enough times to know 7/10 is going his direction, your last hope is his legs get tired in time in the 2nd set. 8-B
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SV style also has the mental effect on opponent. I feel i have to hit better passing shots, pressure to go for more. I miss a few then it adds up quickly.
 
Dragy said:
Warmup value of mini is there to collect to get first feel for current court bounce features and to get things move. However, for warmup, it’s a brief stage to go through, maybe several dozens of shots?
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I like that Henin mini tennis video. Stand just beyond the service line and bounce it inside the box. Very relaxing.

That is a far more relaxing warm-up than mini tennis standing in the middle of the box.

How in the world is mini tennis close to the net, dealing with the most difficult shot -- half-volleys at your feet, and quick reaction shots (often caused by warm-up partners that hit too hard or dink too slow) an appropriate relaxing warm-up?
:(
 
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Born_to_slice said:
Actually, right on the service line is too close but Tommy is probably in the middle of moving back gradually. You start mini tennis then move little by little closer to baseline in time.
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I tried mini tennis in the serve box with conti-aussie fh grip- much easier than with my regular western grip.
I find it usefull experience in match situations, and usually the warm up mini tennis is played in the serve boxes.
Mini tennis behind the serve box is already not so difficoult with western grip.
 
I always mini tennis. Sometimes it's hard with some to get it going but usually before a league game we always do it. I did a longer mini tennis with my younger son the other day and then we backed up. It was night and day his control.

I'll try to hit a top spin forehand so it bounces as early as possible after the net as possible. That's good control if you do a full swing with top spin.

If you can't control the ball in mini tennis don't expect to control it from the baseline.
 
Good things about mini tennis:

- provides 50% of all players a chance to stall their impending match loss
- more efficient virus spreading
- closer proximity encourages players to share their precious kid stories
- reduces warm-up time at baseline which reveals that you can't hit a bh over the net from that area where points are actually played
- labored breathing is easier to detect
- you can slip in some trash talk/threats that only your opponent hears
- easier transition to pickleball because you have already let go of self respect
- provides the marketing model to scale to big $ ... mini driving range, mini batting cages, mini driving schools, mini college entrance exams, mini sex therapy ... many many mini opportunities still remain.
 
Wheelz said:
I always mini tennis. Sometimes it's hard with some to get it going but usually before a league game we always do it. I did a longer mini tennis with my younger son the other day and then we backed up. It was night and day his control.

I'll try to hit a top spin forehand so it bounces as early as possible after the net as possible. That's good control if you do a full swing with top spin.

If you can't control the ball in mini tennis don't expect to control it from the baseline.
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I think mini tennis in the serve boxes and mini tennis behind the boxes are two different things.
If i practise mini tennis in the boxes even with conti grips, i practise to have a new skill set for example for incoming dropshot replies.
Even Nadal often replies incoming dropshots with conti grip forehands - not slice! ( see ,,Nadal top 10 dropshot reply" video).
 
ByeByePoly said:
Good things about mini tennis:

- provides 50% of all players a chance to stall their impending match loss
- more efficient virus spreading
- closer proximity encourages players to share their precious kid stories
- reduces warm-up time at baseline which reveals that you can't hit a bh over the net from that area where points are actually played
- labored breathing is easier to detect
- you can slip in some trash talk/threats that only your opponent hears
- easier transition to pickleball because you have already let go of self respect
- provides the marketing model to scale to big $ ... mini driving range, mini batting cages, mini driving schools, mini college entrance exams, mini sex therapy ... many many mini opportunities still remain.
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This excellent post should be awarded the Bud Collins Pulitzer Prize for insightful tennis writing!
 
toth said:
I think mini tennis in the serve boxes and mini tennis behind the boxes are two different things.
If i practise mini tennis in the boxes even with conti grips, i practise to have a new skill set for example for incoming dropshot replies.
Even Nadal often replies incoming dropshots with conti grip forehands - not slice! ( see ,,Nadal top 10 dropshot reply" video).
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Warming up and drills are also two different things. It is not possible to improve anything, including strokes, timing, tactics the day of the match. So there is that.

Most tournament and USTA time has a limited warm up time. Mini tennis is a drill ... and robs one from baseline warm-up time.

So to me ... the only thing worth debating/discussing is mini drills ... where is it useful as a drill ... never should have been injected as a warm up by USTA.

IMO ... if you hit a baseline stroke with significant arm rolling ... another way to say that is big lag (pro flip fh, big lag in 2hbh) ... I think mini in the service boxes could be a useful drill/time. I found with learning 2hbh ... wanting to develop two arm/hand rh drop/lag touch/angle ... drilling from anywhere on the court was useful. That said ... for my "touch/ts/off pace" drills ... my best results came from drop feeds at the baseline where I simply tried to hit slow rolling ts that landed just past the net.

If you aren't hitting a stroke with significant arm roll, say more traditional grips and strokes ... I find mini in the service box fairly useless for honing those strokes. That has always been the problem with mini tennis debates, it's like the assumption is all rec players hit the flip fh, when the majority of USTA rec players don't even hit topspin. When you ask a flat ball hitter to play mini ... you are asking them to bunt. Then they tell them they "just can't do it" ... right before the flat ball hitter gives them a beat down in a tournament match. Note: using mini as a drill to deal short balls, drop shots ... excellent (y) regardless of stroke type ... to me that is situational drills and not stroke drills.

I think "touch" has become fairly meaningless in pro tennis ... but it can be part of your skills that win 4.5 singles tournaments. So while I find mini drills only useful for the arm rollers ... I find mini that starts from standing halfway between service line and baseline useful for all rec players. Somehow post Nadal, most rec players got the message big spin, safe targets (which often means they couldn't hit near a cone on the court if their life depended on it). Rec players can win at their level with little spin or power by being accurate and controlling arm (rhs). A pro not redlining rhs doesn't stay a pro for long ... a 4.5 singles player that can't control arm (rhs) to hit to various targets including short most likely never wins a trophy. The heavy hitting redline winning player is above 4.5. So the mini-adjacent drill is great imo even for the flat/flattish hitters ... it takes significant unit turn/arm control to cooperstively hit from that court position. Instead of a baseliner just hitting spin and getting it in, or a flat hitter hitting deep ... now that other guy is a shorter target, and a smaller target. (y)

Something like that ... I don't have any opinions and don't like to share them. :-D
 
I usually do mini-tennis before I do drills or at the start of a coaching lesson and I think it is useful to help get proper form on the swing and footwork initially since I’m focusing on improvement during those sessions. But, I rarely do it as part of warmup for a match which is when I see most players doing it. I usually do stretching and/or light cardio before a match and can start warmups from the baseline rightaway followed by volleys, overheads and smashes. A match warmup usually takes about 15 minutes when I am playing socially and I would not want to add another 5 minutes for mini-tennis.
 
ByeByePoly said:
Oh crap ... just read the OP and I'm an idiot. I can't say I didn't suspect that was true ... but it still hurts. :cry:
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Your worst nightmare - mini tennis with Gregory Diamond or any one of his other multiple personalities, 2 hours daily until you have mastered the two handed forehand and cross hatch backhand. Only then will you have redeemed yourself.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
 
old thread bump. I think mini-tennis is a useful tool for practice, I just think warming up with it for more than maybe a minute during limited USTA warm-up time is dumb.
 
3loudboys said:
Your worst nightmare - mini tennis with Gregory Diamond or any one of his other multiple personalities, 2 hours daily until you have mastered the two handed forehand and cross hatch backhand. Only then will you have redeemed yourself.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
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3loud ... I thought we were friends ... I might have to mark you down to 2loud. 8-B
 
toth said:
I tried mini tennis in the serve box with conti-aussie fh grip- much easier than with my regular western grip.
I find it usefull experience in match situations, and usually the warm up mini tennis is played in the serve boxes.
Mini tennis behind the serve box is already not so difficoult with western grip.
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Don't really get what you mean. You play mini tennis by standing inside the serve box?
 
Recreational players are already playing mini tennis.

Get out of your delusion that makes you think you are playing big league. :D:-D:laughing:
 
Knox said:
I was introduced to *true* mini-tennis by my college coach. By 'true' I mean full swinging with heavy topspin-- NOT dink-ball.

He was on his second or third undefeated season in a row, and every day he couldn't emphasize enough how mini-tennis was one of the most important drills of all time.
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got a vid of some one doing that. I cant imagine that. If I do full swings its not staying in the service line or leading to any kind of rally
 
ByeByePoly said:
Yeah ... you know getting passed is expected ... if you win 7/10 of those passing situations you win. So all of us s&v players have that calculation/prediction going on in our head. If the guy is easily passing you on your best stuff ... and enough times to know 7/10 is going his direction, your last hope is his legs get tired in time in the 2nd set. 8-B
Click to expand...
I remember that wimby where Nadal beat fed. IIRC fed won 290 points and nadal won 295. I remember thinking, "damn, I can get passed 290 times and still win"
 
ByeByePoly said:
Good things about mini tennis:

- provides 50% of all players a chance to stall their impending match loss
- more efficient virus spreading
- closer proximity encourages players to share their precious kid stories
- reduces warm-up time at baseline which reveals that you can't hit a bh over the net from that area where points are actually played
- labored breathing is easier to detect
- you can slip in some trash talk/threats that only your opponent hears
- easier transition to pickleball because you have already let go of self respect
- provides the marketing model to scale to big $ ... mini driving range, mini batting cages, mini driving schools, mini college entrance exams, mini sex therapy ... many many mini opportunities still remain.
Click to expand...
Quit your day job and start writing for buzzfeed tennis section.. we need more of this..:D
 
toth said:
Ball bounces in boxes.
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That's my definition of mini tennis as well. But when I warm up, I start from mini tennis, yet I don't just go to the baseline as the next step but instead move gradually towards it.

There's also another version of mini tennis (or maybe it's called something else), when ball has to bounce twice inside the serve box but I didn't play that in over a decade. Good and a bit more challenging practice.
 
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One of the drills my sons coach does with him in the short court requires feel, finish and correct swing path. They hit cross short court having to generate a lot of revs to keep the ball in the lines with a cone target. It has helped him conceptualize the racket drop and gain more top spin when hitting on full court. It's also just a good warm up for the strokes before a hit, you gradually move further back after every 5-10 hits. We never just hit short court and then wander back to base. That would be nuts and destroy any rhythm.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
 
3loudboys said:
One of the drills my sons coach does with him in the short court requires feel, finish and correct swing path. They hit cross short court having to generate a lot of revs to keep the ball in the lines with a cone target. It has helped him conceptualize the racket drop and gain more top spin when hitting on full court. It's also just a good warm up for the strokes before a hit, you gradually move further back after every 5-10 hits. We never just hit short court and then wander back to base. That would be nuts and destroy any rhythm.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
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Your son shall be forbidden to watch his balls land near the cones during play. He will be provided a cone adjacent video afterwards for his homework. 8-B
 
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