Young Nadal v Young Alcaraz - The story so far

[Hitman]

After Alcaraz won IW again, it was an ideal time to look at where both stand after winning IW at the age of 20, a feat Nadal accomplished back in 2007.

Big titles overall
Nadal = 2 x RG, 2 x MC, 2 x Rome, 1 x Canada, 1 x Madrid, 1 x IW = 2 slams, 7 masters = 9 big titles
Alcaraz = 1 x USO, 1 x W, 1 x Miami, 2 x Madrid, 2 x IW = 2 slams, 5 masters = 7 big titles

Big titles on clay
Nadal = 2 x RG, 2 x MC, 2 x Rome = 6 big titles
Alcaraz -= 2 x Madrid = 2 big titles

Big titles on hard
Nadal = 1 x Canada, 1 x Madrid, 1 x IW = 3 big titles
Alcaraz = 1 x USO, 1 x Miami, 2 x IW = 4 big titles

Big titles on grass
Nadal = 0 big titles
Alcaraz = 1 x W = 1 big title

Additional RU
Nadal = 1 x Miami, 1 x W = 2 RU
Alcaraz = 1 x Cincinnati = 1 RU

Slams
Nadal = 2 x RG = 2 slams
Alcaraz = 1 x USO, 1 x W = 2 slams

Weeks at number one
Nadal = 0 weeks
Alcaraz = 36 weeks

Year ending number ones
Nadal = 0
Alcaraz = 1

 

[nolefam_2024]

Alcaraz is in good company. Very good early results.

 

[Pheasant]

I'll use Tennis Abstract to break this down further.

Stats through IW of their age-21 seasons:

Nadal:
2 slam titles
18 titles overall. 18-3 record in finals, includes 2 losses to peak Fed
198-55, .783 overall record
20-10, .667 vs top-10
11-6, .647 vs top-5

Alcaraz
2 slam titles
14 titles overall; 14-4 record in finals
167-46, .784 overall record
26-16, .619 vs top-10
14-9, .609 vs top-5

Nadal managed to go 4-2 in finals vs peak Fed. He also took out Coria in 3 clay finals; no small feat. He took out Djoker on a hard court final in 2007. He also took out Gaudio and Juan Carlos Ferrero in clay court finals. And lastly, he beat Agassi in the Montreal final(Agassi has 3 of those titles).

I think that Nadal had tougher competition. So I give him the edge here. But with that being said, Alcaraz has been outstanding. We are talking about the two greatest young players(under-21) in nearly 40 years.

 

[DSH]

It will be interesting what Alcaraz can achieve this season and its subsequent comparison with Nadal's 2007 season.

 

[kevaninho]

I will add, that Alcaraz doesnt have someone in his way thats a multiple surface/slam champion ( we wont count past his prime Djokovic, who could be done within a year ). So realistically he could dominate this tour for years.

By the time hes in his 21st year also, he could run away from Nadal in achievements. Its crazy to imagine that, but very possible.

 

[nolefam_2024]

If Raz wants to distinguish from Nadal, he should win Paris masters or ATP finals.

 

[kevaninho]

It will be interesting what Alcaraz can achieve this season and its subsequent comparison with Nadal's 2007 season.

Can you see him winning all clay tournaments bar one? Getting to another Wimbledon final, plus another masters final?

As much as i like his peak level, i feel like he wont be consistently healthy to win event after event.

 

[kevaninho]

If Raz wants to distinguish from Nadal, he should win Paris masters or ATP finals.

Well its certainly going to be easier for him to win them, without prime Federer indoor or Djokovic to compete with.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Well its certainly going to be easier for him to win them, without prime Federer indoor or Djokovic to compete with.

Nadal won Madrid similar way.

 

[DSH]

Well its certainly going to be easier for him to win them, without prime Federer indoor or Djokovic to compete with.

Nadal, without them, would have won 2 to 4 ATP Finals titles.

 

[Sport]

Spanish players have won the most Slams in the 21th century so far.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Spanish players have won the most Slams in the 21th century so far.

Yes. But Serbians are just 1/2 behind.

 

[Sport]

Yes. But Serbians are just 1/2 behind.

Not for long.

 

[StrongRule]

Im a Nadal guy all day long, but what Carlos done versus Djokovic in that Wimby final was special. To beat the guy who no one could, on grass, is probably bigger than Nadals biggest win at that age.

I also think winning 1 Wimbledon + 1 USO is more desirable to most, than 2 at RG.

I will stand by, that Nadal was a better player at that age IMO, but achievement wise, opinion could be either way.

Yeah, sure, sure. You can repeat it a million more times, will not start being true. So barely beating a 36 years old Djokovic in Wimbledon final (while being 3-1 down against him that year, including a very embarrassing collapse in DO) is more impressive than beating absolute peak Federer multiple times, including in slams? Such BS would never come from someone who is a Nadal fan.

2023 Alcaraz wouldn't have won even one set against 2006 Federer in Wimbledon. Just because this is the weakest era in history and Djokovic managed to massively overachieve at Wimbledon, it doesn't mean he is somehow comparable to prime/peak Federer there.

 

[DSH]

Yes. But Serbians are just 1/2 behind.

After Djokovic, who?

 

[DSH]

Yeah, sure, sure. You can repeat it a million more times, will not start being true. So barely beating a 36 years old Djokovic in Wimbledon final (while being 3-1 down against him that year, including a very embarrassing collapse in DO) is more impressive than beating absolute peak Federer multiple times, including in slams? Such BS would never come from someone who is a Nadal fan.

2023 Alcaraz wouldn't have won even one set against 2006 Federer in Wimbledon. Just because this is the weakest era in history and Djokovic managed to massively overachieve at Wimbledon, it doesn't mean he is somehow comparable to prime/peak Federer there.

Slay, buddy!

 

[Neptune]

Stats through IW of their age-21 seasons:

Nadal:
198-55, .783 overall record
20-10, .667 vs top-10
11-6, .647 vs top-5

Alcaraz
167-46, .784 overall record
26-16, .619 vs top-10
14-9, .609 vs top-5

Fascinating statistics. Alcaraz has considerably more against top 5 and top 10 opponents while playing fewer matches. Breaking down the surfaces would make the analysis even more intriguing.

 

[aldeayeah]

If Raz wants to distinguish from Nadal, he should win Paris masters or ATP finals.

I mean he already won Miami.

 

[nolefam_2024]

I mean he already won Miami.

Miami is not a bad tournament for Nadal. 4/5 finals.

Now ATP finals is where the meat is.

 

[DSH]

Fascinating statistics. Alcaraz has considerably more against top 5 and top 10 opponents while playing fewer matches. Breaking down the surfaces would make the analysis even more intriguing.

Of course, but without an exhaustive analysis of the statistics, the competition of both, the differences between the surfaces (however minimal) from then and now, any assessment is meaningless.

 

[Pheasant]

Fascinating statistics. Alcaraz has considerably more against top 5 and top 10 opponents while playing fewer matches. Breaking down the surfaces would make the analysis even more intriguing.

Through IW of age-21 season broken down by surface(small tweak; ATP matches only per TA):

Hard courts:
Nadal:
83-32, .722 overall
7-7, .500 vs top-10
4-4, .500 vs top-5

Alcaraz:
85-28, .752 overall
16-11, .593 vs top-10
6-5, .545 vs top-5

Clay:
Nadal:
102-12, .895 overall
13-2, .867 vs top-10
7-1, .875 vs top-5

Alcaraz:
66-16. .805 overall
7-4, .636 vs top-10
6-3, .667 vs top-5

Grass Courts:
Nadal:
11-5, .688 overall
0-1, .000 vs top-10
0-1, .000 vs top-5

Alcaraz:
16-2, .875 overall
3-1, .750 vs top-10
2-1, .667 vs top-54

Carpet:
Nadal:
2-6, 333 overall
0-0 vs top-10

Alcaraz:
0-0 overall

 

[SonnyT]

Nadal, as always, ahead on clay. Alcaraz ahead on grass and hard court.

 

[Rovesciarete]

Proceeding as expected, both are enjoying extreme early success. Nadal is by a large margin the greatest on clay while Alcaraz is a more balanced player.

 

[Neptune]

Through IW of age-21 season broken down by surface(small tweak; ATP matches only per TA):

Hard courts:
Nadal:
83-32, .722 overall
7-7, .500 vs top-10
4-4, .500 vs top-5

Alcaraz:
85-28, .752 overall
16-11, .593 vs top-10
6-5, .545 vs top-5

Clay:
Nadal:
102-12, .895 overall
13-2, .867 vs top-10
7-1, .875 vs top-5

Alcaraz:
66-16. .805 overall
7-4, .636 vs top-10
6-3, .667 vs top-5

Grass Courts:
Nadal:
11-5, .688 overall
0-1, .000 vs top-10
0-1, .000 vs top-5

Alcaraz:
16-2, .875 overall
3-1, .750 vs top-10
2-1, .667 vs top-54

Carpet:
Nadal:
2-6, 333 overall
0-0 vs top-10

Alcaraz:
0-0 overall

Proceeding as expected, both are enjoying extreme early success. Nadal is by a large margin the greatest on clay while Alcaraz is a more balanced player.

Indeed, @Pheasant's breakdown of surfaces makes it abundantly clear.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Federer beat Pete Sampras who was playing near his last legs. And that too in R16. And then fed got deposed and snipped away from the 2001 Wimbledon.

Fedfans are proud of that win.


Alcaraz won queens. Then beat 3 top 10 players, one of them being Djokovic, in the final. But there are some Rafa fans who want to bring in the context in this much bigger win.

Nadal fans are scared and we love it. 7* slams outside of clay, alcaraz is right now at 1. We will see in few years.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Masters won outside of clay. Nadal 10. Alcaraz already at 4. This one is lost cause even Nadal fans know it. That 4 will turn into 11 very soon.

 

[messiahrobins]

Federer beat Pete Sampras who was playing near his last legs. And that too in R16. And then fed got deposed and snipped away from the 2001 Wimbledon.

Fedfans are proud of that win.


Alcaraz won queens. Then beat 3 top 10 players, one of them being Djokovic, in the final. But there are some Rafa fans who want to bring in the context in this much bigger win.

Nadal fans are scared and we love it. 7* slams outside of clay, alcaraz is right now at 1. We will see in few years.

You do know Nadal fans love Alcaraz? Alcaraz is seen as heir apparent. Thats the whole point of the thread.

 

[nolefam_2024]

No Nadal fans love alcaraz until alcaraz starts breaking their favs records. Right now you guys will love anyone who can take out djokovic. Nadal fans also love Nardi.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Federer beat Pete Sampras who was playing near his last legs. And that too in R16. And then fed got deposed and snipped away from the 2001 Wimbledon.

Fedfans are proud of that win.


Alcaraz won queens. Then beat 3 top 10 players, one of them being Djokovic, in the final. But there are some Rafa fans who want to bring in the context in this much bigger win.

Nadal fans are scared and we love it. 7* slams outside of clay, alcaraz is right now at 1. We will see in few years.

That was a great match.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Energizer Bunny 1.0 takes it.

 

[nolefam_2024]

That was a great match.

Yes it still holds up today.

 

[messiahrobins]

No Nadal fans love alcaraz until alcaraz starts breaking their favs records. Right now you guys will love anyone who can take out djokovic. Nadal fans also love Nardi.

Nadal fans dont support Sinner. Recently he has owned Djokovic. So your point is factually nonsense clearly. Not seen nardi mentioned once anywhere apart from the actual match forum!
Many Nadal fans were sad the end is nigh for nadal after 20 years of unparalleled joy watching him rewrite so many records, but in Alcaraz there is now another Spanish player who is an equally lovely guy who looks set to provide up to another 20 years of joy. Indian Wells was so important.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Nadal not fit is on Nadal. Djokovic being fit and cleared by supreme Court of the land is not on Djokovic.

 

[metsman]

Number of impressive matches played by level (wins or losses):
Nadal: Several
Alcaraz: 0

 

[nolefam_2024]

Federer fans since Federer retired on Wimbledon 2019

Number of impressive matches anyone played 0

Fed retired fedfans interest DEAD

Rest of the world continues.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Federer fans since Federer retired on Wimbledon 2019

Number of impressive matches anyone played 0

Fed retired fedfans interest DEAD

Rest of the world continues.

That's why you mentioned Fed three times in a thread that has nothing to do with him.

 

[StrongRule]

I like how Djokovic fans somehow NEVER compare Alcaraz to young Djokovic. I wonder why.

 

[nolefam_2024]

A lie

Djokovic 2008 season vs Alcaraz 2023 season

Djokovic was 64-17 and won 4 titles Alcaraz is 63-9 and won 6 titles. Djokovic won a slam and made 2 semis. Alcaraz win a slam and made 2 semis Djokovic won 1 hard masters 1 clay masters and made 1 Cincinnati final Alcaraz won 1 hard masters 1 clay masters and made 1 Cincinnati final...

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

Djokovic is not physical freak like Nadal and Carlos to be hitting 100 mph fh at 18. But it compensated over time as Nadal burned too fast out. Alcaraz is always getting injured himself.

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

I don’t like to compare because young Nadal was actually on a solid tour against a GOAT candidate at his peak. If you put young Nadal on tour today in place of Alcaraz, he would be winning 95 percent of the tournaments he entered LOL

Old Djoker can’t even beat journeymen this year so 0 chance he beats young Nadal. Sinner would get a win or two on some fast courts but young Nadal would absolutely punish him overall

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

After Alcaraz won IW again, it was an ideal time to look at where both stand after winning IW at the age of 20, a feat Nadal accomplished back in 2007.

Big titles overall
Nadal = 2 x RG, 2 x MC, 2 x Rome, 1 x Canada, 1 x Madrid, 1 x IW = 2 slams, 7 masters = 9 big titles
Alcaraz = 1 x USO, 1 x W, 1 x Miami, 2 x Madrid, 2 x IW = 2 slams, 5 masters = 7 big titles

Big titles on clay
Nadal = 2 x RG, 2 x MC, 2 x Rome = 6 big titles
Alcaraz -= 2 x Madrid = 2 big titles

Big titles on hard
Nadal = 1 x Canada, 1 x Madrid, 1 x IW = 3 big titles
Alcaraz = 1 x USO, 1 x Miami, 2 x IW = 4 big titles

Big titles on grass
Nadal = 0 big titles
Alcaraz = 1 x W = 1 big title

Additional RU
Nadal = 1 x Miami, 1 x W = 2 RU
Alcaraz = 1 x Cincinnati = 1 RU

Slams
Nadal = 2 x RG = 2 slams
Alcaraz = 1 x USO, 1 x W = 2 slams

Weeks at number one
Nadal = 0 weeks
Alcaraz = 36 weeks

Year ending number ones
Nadal = 0
Alcaraz = 1

Young Rafa annihilates young Carlitos everywhere, including Wimbledon where he is being hyped so much lol.

Rafa with elite movement is the worst matchup for current Alcaraz.

 

[DSH]

Nadal fans dont support Sinner. Recently he has owned Djokovic. So your point is factually nonsense clearly. Not seen nardi mentioned once anywhere apart from the actual match forum!
Many Nadal fans were sad the end is nigh for nadal after 20 years of unparalleled joy watching him rewrite so many records, but in Alcaraz there is now another Spanish player who is an equally lovely guy who looks set to provide up to another 20 years of joy. Indian Wells was so important.

Nolefams just talks trash, as always.
You don't have to take what he says seriously.

 

[DSH]

I don’t like to compare because young Nadal was actually on a solid tour against a GOAT candidate at his peak. If you put young Nadal on tour today he would be winning 95 percent of the tournaments he entered LOL

Old Djoker can’t even beat journeymen this year so 0 chance he beats young Nadal. Sinner would get a win or two on some fast courts but young Nadal would absolutely punish him

Without a doubt, there is a great talent gap if we compare the time of Nadal's emergence and that of Alcaraz now.
Anyone who denies it doesn't know about tennis.

 

[Hitman]

I like how Djokovic fans somehow NEVER compare Alcaraz to young Djokovic. I wonder why.

Because Nadal was the greatest young talent of his era, and after him, it is now Alcaraz?

You know, this thread is about comparing the best of the two different eras, yes? And objectively we all know and accept that Nadal was the best young talent this century.

 

[big ted]

After Alcaraz won IW again, it was an ideal time to look at where both stand after winning IW at the age of 20, a feat Nadal accomplished back in 2007.

Big titles overall
Nadal = 2 x RG, 2 x MC, 2 x Rome, 1 x Canada, 1 x Madrid, 1 x IW = 2 slams, 7 masters = 9 big titles
Alcaraz = 1 x USO, 1 x W, 1 x Miami, 2 x Madrid, 2 x IW = 2 slams, 5 masters = 7 big titles

Big titles on clay
Nadal = 2 x RG, 2 x MC, 2 x Rome = 6 big titles
Alcaraz -= 2 x Madrid = 2 big titles

Big titles on hard
Nadal = 1 x Canada, 1 x Madrid, 1 x IW = 3 big titles
Alcaraz = 1 x USO, 1 x Miami, 2 x IW = 4 big titles

Big titles on grass
Nadal = 0 big titles
Alcaraz = 1 x W = 1 big title

Additional RU
Nadal = 1 x Miami, 1 x W = 2 RU
Alcaraz = 1 x Cincinnati = 1 RU

Slams
Nadal = 2 x RG = 2 slams
Alcaraz = 1 x USO, 1 x W = 2 slams

Weeks at number one
Nadal = 0 weeks
Alcaraz = 36 weeks

Year ending number ones
Nadal = 0
Alcaraz = 1

rafa had to deal with prime fedr from the get go.. i don’t think carlito would have any slams yet w/ fedr around, let alone be #1

 

[MichaelNadal]

Masters won outside of clay. Nadal 10. Alcaraz already at 4. This one is lost cause even Nadal fans know it. That 4 will turn into 11 very soon.

Says the cracked fortune cookie

 

[duaneeo]

I just think that if you switched them in time Tiny Carl’s CV takes a hit whereas I think RAFA’s increases. That’s a combination of the difference in their level of play and the competition they faced.

A HUGE hit. 20 year old Alcaraz at this time in 2007 would have at most a Masters title. But I don't even see that. Not only because of the much greater competition, but the BO5 finals. They wouldn't have been kind to the injury/cramping-prone Alcaraz.

 

[The_Order]

Nadal, as always, ahead on clay. Alcaraz ahead on grass and hard court.

As always, a shallow analysis...

Alcaraz ahead on HC and grass (and ranking) because Nadal had to deal with PEAK Federer...

Is Alcaraz beating 2005 Fed in Miami Bo5 final?
Is he beating 2006 Fed at Wimbledon?

Heck, is Alcaraz even winning one slam with peak Roger around?

purely stat wise - they're close, but factor in the context and Nadal is ahead.

 

[Sport]

Nadal not fit is on Nadal. Djokovic being fit and cleared by supreme Court of the land is not on Djokovic.

Novak not getting a vaccine (his own personal choice, exercising his free will) is on him.

He knew it was a risky move, considering Australia's ultra-strict rules at the time. He still chose to follow his principles and accepted the consequences of his own actions.

At the end of the day, it was never something 100% out of Novak's control.

If you ask me, I think he did the right thing. Principles > tennis career.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Novak not getting a vaccine (his own personal choice, exercising his free will) is on him.

He knew it was a risky move, considering Australia's ultra-strict rules at the time. He still chose to follow his principles and accepted the consequences of his own actions.

At the end of the day, it was never something 100% out of Novak's control.

If you ask me, I think he did the right thing. Principles > tennis career.

Novak did get the exemption. The pm, who played politics, got the boot soon. Same thing is going to happen to Biden and you know it.

Novak followed the law. Supreme Court of Australia cleared him.

 

[The_Order]

Novak did get the exemption. The pm, who played politics, got the boot soon. Same thing is going to happen to Biden and you know it.

Novak followed the law. Supreme Court of Australia cleared him.

He lied on the form about being in other countries, he hid his covid diagnosis then made a public appearance and the exemption he got was from the tennis Australia boss... who has nothing to do with who is or is not allowed into the country.

The PM Australia has now is just as bad as Biden... if not worse...

Back on ignore you go troll.