Your all missing the point Re: Serena

crawl4

crawl4

Rookie
I despise Serena and am not defending her at all but to call a foot fault at that instant was uncalled for. She had not been pinned earlier in the match (correct me if im wrong) and at that circumstance the line official should have known what such implications would have. I know 'rules are rules' but cmon at that stage who would honestly have the guts to do that. For those people who play tennis, you would react if that happened to you.

Serena's actions however were inexcusable and I hope she receives much criticism. All her career she has been a poor loser and that match (and interview) made it blatant for everyone. She would have redeemed some of her credibility if she had been apologetic in the interview but of course her stupidity got the better of her. For a professional athlete, this is one of the lowest acts ive ever seen.
 
crawl4 said:
I despise Serena and am not defending her at all but to call a foot fault at that instant was uncalled for. She had not been pinned earlier in the match (correct me if im wrong) and at that circumstance the line official should have known what such implications would have. I know 'rules are rules' but cmon at that stage who would honestly have the guts to do that. For those people who play tennis, you would react if that happened to you.

Serena's actions however were inexcusable and I hope she receives much criticism. All her career she has been a poor loser and that match (and interview) made it blatant for everyone. She would have redeemed some of her credibility if she had been apologetic in the interview but of course her stupidity got the better of her. For a professional athlete, this is one of the lowest acts ive ever seen.
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crawl, I'm sorry but rules are...simply rules.
 
crawl4 said:
I despise Serena and am not defending her at all but to call a foot fault at that instant was uncalled for. She had not been pinned earlier in the match (correct me if im wrong) and at that circumstance the line official should have known what such implications would have. I know 'rules are rules' but cmon at that stage who would honestly have the guts to do that. For those people who play tennis, you would react if that happened to you.
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Wow.. people here just talk nonesense.

First of all, she violated the rules earlier by smashing the racquet which cost her a warning. second, the lines call wasnt the point fault, it was after the umpire called the lines woman to ask what happened, and for serenas profanity.
 
I have to wonder if all the rules were enforced - none of this "it was so close to the end of the match" stuff - if the players would be provoked into working harder and upping their game. How hard do you work if you know you'll only be called on something half the time? Perhaps greater rule enforcement could lead the WTA out of the embarrassing doldrums it's descended into.
 
crawl4. Getting a penalty on the buzzer. Or having a goal scored against you during injury time on.. Its sport man, and rules are rules, until the final point..
 
I admit that was a gutsy call but if thats what the lineswoman saw why should she ignore it??

Timing issues (between serves , returns, etc) are debatable but if her foot was on the line (which was the case as per 2nd view point) why should it be ignored??

They should implement a laser or something on the line like there is on the tape to detect faults.
 
coyfish said:
I admit that was a gutsy call but if thats what the lineswoman saw why should she ignore it??

Timing issues (between serves , returns, etc) are debatable but if her foot was on the line (which was the case as per 2nd view point) why should it be ignored??

They should implement a laser or something on the line like there is on the tape to detect faults.
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Kinda like in bowling :)
 
She had been called earlier in the match by a different line umpire, several times during this tournament and all through her career.
 
crawl4 said:
I despise Serena and am not defending her at all but to call a foot fault at that instant was uncalled for. She had not been pinned earlier in the match (correct me if im wrong) and at that circumstance the line official should have known what such implications would have. I know 'rules are rules' but cmon at that stage who would honestly have the guts to do that. For those people who play tennis, you would react if that happened to you.
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She was indeed called for a foot fault earlier in the match so you would think she would have been extra careful not to foot fault for the rest of the match. She should have taken the first foot fault call as a warning so it's her own gd fault that she got called again.
 
do i have to remind you this matchpoint ? He lost the match because of the footfault call on matchpoint. so IN PRO tennis, footfault can be called at anytime. even at Wimbledon, 20-20 in 5th set and score is ad out. and if you footfault, you lose the match. simple as that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnQp9YoLl68
 
Claudius said:
Storm, I guarantee you. Tomorrow, they will validate the foot fault, and I will be laughing at your stupidity.
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A) If they show a foot fault then it was a foot fault. Did I claim it was definitely not a foot fault? No. I said it was definitely not clear, that there was no evidence of a foot fault.

B) If that was a foot fault, then it was barely a f*cking foot fault. You don't make that call in the semifinal of a grand slam, period. It's too close to call. It's a foot fault for chrissakes.

Your little "rules are rules is a rule is rules" spiel is pitiful. It's over-officiating, period.

Lastly, how the hell do you know it was a foot fault. You claimed it was "clearly a footfault". Where is this evidence? If it's clear, you should be able to show us. Let's see it, right now.

three eights said:
The point wasn't given for the foot fault!!!
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It was a footfault on a second serve. In tennis, your opponent gets a point if you double fault. Go learn the basics of the game then come back and try again. It was 15-30 and the footfault was called. Then it was 15-40 and Serena got a second code violation to lose the match.
 
The foot twists...

If you look carefully you'll notice that Serena's front foot twists forward towards the line (the toe is not touching) but it would appear the mid foot does or would touch (although the camera angle is inadequate) I could see the line person calling it from her position.

Enforcing the rules based on the stage of the match? What a joke.
 
If you BARELY touch someone...you still touch them.
If you BARELY are living...you are still living.
If you BARELY know your ABC's...you still know your ABC's.

IF YOU BARELY FOOT FAULE STORM...YOU STILL FOOT FAULT!!!!!

Ask Marat Safin at this years AO. His came because his back foot crossed the center hash line.
 
BTW, threatening an official should result in default, not just a point.

If it were just a point, players would do it all the time to get in the heads of a linesman - worth a point.
 
Court Valkyrie said:
If you BARELY touch someone...you still touch them.
If you BARELY are living...you are still living.
If you BARELY know your ABC's...you still know your ABC's.

IF YOU BARELY FOOT FAULE STORM...YOU STILL FOOT FAULT!!!!!

Ask Marat Safin at this years AO. His came because his back foot crossed the center hash line.
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If you barely foot fault, then that means a linesperson could not have possibly seen that foot fault clearly. It was, therefore, too close to make such a call. It's the same when an umpire makes an overrule on the far side. You shouldn't make that call.

Some of you need to stop being foolish. Let the players play tennis.
 
stormholloway said:
If you barely foot fault, then that means a linesperson could not have possibly seen that foot fault clearly. It was, therefore, too close to make such a call. It's the same when an umpire makes an overrule on the far side. You shouldn't make that call.

Some of you need to stop being foolish. Let the players play tennis.
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Storm, so you're saying that foot faults can be called in the beginning of a match where the points are not too crucial, but not at an important stage like 15-30 down 6-5?

I'm sorry, but rules have to be enforced regardless what the score is.
 
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woodrow1029 said:
She had been called earlier in the match by a different line umpire, several times during this tournament and all through her career.
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Agree. She gets called on it, all the time. Serena was in bad state of mind at the time. Was playing bad, was already upset, broke the racket, and footfault to get her to match point, probably all added up to her blowing up.
 
Well I certainly hope we stop calling double faults at these crucial parts of the matches too because we should let the players play!

/sarcasm off

Rules are rules...enforce them. Don't turn Tennis into the NBA.
 
Claudius said:
Storm, so you're saying that foot faults can be called in the beginning of match where the points are too crucial, but not at an important stage like 15-30 down 6-5?

'm sorry, but rules have to be enforced regardless what the score is.
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When have foot faults ever been called in a match of any magnitude (not that stupid whitten match) to a player of any stature in a critical point in the match?

Never and the games is better for it. So no the rules don't have to be enforced regardless because they never have been
 
stormholloway said:
If you barely foot fault, then that means a linesperson could not have possibly seen that foot fault clearly. It was, therefore, too close to make such a call. It's the same when an umpire makes an overrule on the far side. You shouldn't make that call.

Some of you need to stop being foolish. Let the players play tennis.
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So what you are saying is this.

If Roger Federer is playing Nadal Monday for the US OPEN Title, it's match point for Federer, he's serving. He walks to the net and serves an ace from right in front of the net....that's legit, because of the situation...being match point and all? Like in basball, if you hit a ball 500 feet but it's foul, you aren't going to say hey that's a homerun because it's bottom of the 9th inning and the count is 3-2 with 2 outs bases loaded to win the World Series Game 7...get a grip bro.
 
Araxen said:
Well I certainly hope we stop calling double faults at these crucial parts of the matches too because we should let the players play!

/sarcasm off

Rules are rules...enforce them. Don't turn Tennis into the NBA.
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The NBA is correct is swallowing the whistle in down the stretch in big games
 
kendall22 said:
I didn't see in the rulebook where it says to use stormholloway's interpretation of when to enforce the rules.
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Clearly Storm knows better than USTA officials, the Tournament Directors etc.

Have you checked the King Storms edition of the rulebook. ?
 
pmerk34 said:
When have foot faults ever been called in a match of any magnitude (not that stupid whitten match) to a player of any stature in a critical point in the match?

Never and the games is better for it. So no the rules don't have to be enforced regardless because they never have been
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When they train the linesmen they dont tell them " Please consider the point also, if it's too critical . let it go"

They do what they are asked to and what they are paid for.
 
Court Valkyrie said:
So what you are saying is this.

If Roger Federer is playing Nadal Monday for the US OPEN Title, it's match point for Federer, he's serving. He walks to the net and serves an ace from right in front of the net....that's legit, because of the situation...being match point and all? Like in basball, if you hit a ball 500 feet but it's foul, you aren't going to say hey that's a homerun because it's bottom of the 9th inning and the count is 3-2 with 2 outs bases loaded to win the World Series Game 7...get a grip bro.
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Idiotic analogy. A better one would be Derek Jeter is up with two out and the tying run on second and the umpire calls strike three on him for failing to get back into the batters box within the official allotted time.
 
OddJack said:
When they train the linesmen they dont tell them " Please consider the point also, if it's too critical . let it go"

They do what they are asked to and what they are paid for.
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And they have never done it like this before. All of them have had enough common sense before this lady
 
Claudius said:
Storm, so you're saying that foot faults can be called in the beginning of a match where the points are not too crucial, but not at an important stage like 15-30 down 6-5?

I'm sorry, but rules have to be enforced regardless what the score is.
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This foot fault better be DAMN clear when a video comes out. I sure hope there's a video or photo of this thing. What I'm saying is that a foot fault should only be called when it is clear. Why? Because footfaults are not easy to see. The edges of shoes are round. Your shoe can technically hang over the line without touching the line, so the difference between a footfault and not is incredibly minute.

And no, the rules don't HAVE to be enforced regardless of what the score is. This is about two athletes duking it out, NOT about some old woman with GLASSES judging whether someone's shoe touched a painted line on the court.

Bottom line: it better be a damn clear foot fault, otherwise no individual has any business in making such a call.
 
stormholloway said:
If you barely foot fault, then that means a linesperson could not have possibly seen that foot fault clearly. It was, therefore, too close to make such a call. It's the same when an umpire makes an overrule on the far side. You shouldn't make that call.

Some of you need to stop being foolish. Let the players play tennis.
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Yeah...and the ball was just barely out - so you should just play it...and the ball just barely bounced twice...so you should just play it...and SC just barely fumbled the ball - so Notre Dame so just let them have it...

My god people. Do you play or follow any sports at all?

Oh, that's right...this from the same guy (storm) who thinks the moon landing was faked. Seriously...that's what this actually guy believes - he posted on it in an entire thread. So this is the level of logic going on here.

By the way - they just re-showed the whole thing on TTC and it looked pretty clear that Serena moved her left foot forward onto the line as she went into her motion - foot fault.

And she didn't loose the match on the foot fault - she lost cause of her outburst. I loved all the stuff that Mac and Jimmy used to do - but there is a little difference between calling someone an abortion or a f-ing idiot - and saying you are going to take the f-ing ball and shove it down your f-ing throat and f-ing kill you! On match point no less. Not really well thought out.

And no, I'm not a Williams hater at all...
 
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kendall22 said:
I didn't see in the rulebook where it says to use stormholloway's interpretation of when to enforce the rules.
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Are you implying you've read the rulebook? I'm also not claiming that the USTA should listen to me. This is a discussion. We're discussing.

The rules exist for a good reason. A footfault is too close to call, at least this one was. The footfault rule exists so no player has an advantage on serve. They showed the video. I didn't see her foot on the line.
 
stormholloway said:
A) If they show a foot fault then it was a foot fault. Did I claim it was definitely not a foot fault? No. I said it was definitely not clear, that there was no evidence of a foot fault.

B) If that was a foot fault, then it was barely a f*cking foot fault. You don't make that call in the semifinal of a grand slam, period. It's too close to call. It's a foot fault for chrissakes.

Your little "rules are rules is a rule is rules" spiel is pitiful. It's over-officiating, period.

Lastly, how the hell do you know it was a foot fault. You claimed it was "clearly a footfault". Where is this evidence? If it's clear, you should be able to show us. Let's see it, right now.
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stormholloway said:
If you barely foot fault, then that means a linesperson could not have possibly seen that foot fault clearly. It was, therefore, too close to make such a call. It's the same when an umpire makes an overrule on the far side. You shouldn't make that call.

Some of you need to stop being foolish. Let the players play tennis.
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^ You could not be more wrong.

Further, judging by the very strict and uncompromising nature of most of the positions you take on this board, I believe it's very safe to say that, if it favours your position, you'd be among the first to say "rules are rules and must not depend upon context".
 
ebm said:
So you only enforce the rules of the player that is ahead?
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Not at all. The point is similar to how refs tend to back off a little during high profile/important tight football or basketball games. Nobody wants a game to be won on a "technicality". The entire point of the sporting contests like the US Open is to pit player against player, team against team. It is not to hold a contest of player versus rules. It's a nod to the spirit in which the rule is made over that of the letter of the law so to speak. Serena's footfault (I saw the reply and think it did happen) would not have given Serena an unfair advantage against her opponent. It was a slight footfault. It's one thing to be significantly into the line or past it but that isn't the case here. Given the importance of the point and the game, I as the line judge would have probably of let it go.

BUT, at the same time, I absolutely would stand behind the judge as the call was accurate. Also, the call could have simply been a product of habit. By this I mean the person may very well have spent the entire match looking for foot faults and concentrating on making the call if she saw it. The natural response, because she's focused on her job instead of "the moment", would be to call out automatically, ie no "thought". In the judge's defense I've also noticed foot faults being called at the US Open when I haven't normally heard them called in the past. This may be the result of a conscious decision by tournament referees to enforce this or it may just be most pros rarely foot fault.
 
DNShade said:
Yeah...and the ball was just barely out - so you should just play it...and the ball just barely bounced twice...so you should just play it...and SC just barely fumbled the ball - so Notre Dame so just let them have it...

My god people. Do you play or follow any sports at all?

Oh, that's right...this from the same guy who thinks the moon landing was faked. Seriously...that's what this actually guy believes - he posted on it in an entire thread. So this is the level of logic going on here.

By the way - they just re-showed the whole thing on TTC and it looked pretty clear that Serena moved her left foot forward on to the line as she went into her motion - foot fault.

And she didn't loose the match on the foot fault - she lost cause of her outburst. I'm not a Williams hater at all...
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McEnroe agrees with me. I wonder how many pros also agree with McEnroe. I'm betting 99%.

Clear my ass. Let the players play. I guarantee that even Clijsters didn't want to hear foot fault. No player wants to win that way. And when even an opponent doesn't want to earn a point that way, then it's a problem.
 
mtommer said:
Not at all. The point is similar to how refs tend to back off a little during high profile/important tight football or basketball games. Nobody wants a game to be won on a "technicality". The entire point of the sporting contests like the US Open is to pit player against player, team against team. It is not to hold a contest of player versus rules. It's a nod to the spirit in which the rule is made over that of the letter of the law so to speak. Serena's footfault (I saw the reply and think it did happen) would not have given Serena an unfair advantage against her opponent. It was a slight footfault. It's one thing to be significantly into the line or past it but that isn't the case here. Given the importance of the point and the game, I as the line judge would have probably of let it go.

BUT, at the same time, I absolutely would stand behind the judge as the call was accurate. Also, the call could have simply been a product of habit. By this I mean the person may very well have spent the entire match looking for foot faults and concentrating on making the call if she saw it. The natural response, because she's focused on her job instead of "the moment", would be to call out automatically, ie no "thought". In the judge's defense I've also noticed foot faults being called at the US Open when I haven't normally heard them called in the past. This may be the result of a conscious decision by tournament referees to enforce this or it may just be most pros rarely foot fault.
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For your first statement...I disagree. When the game/match is on the line...you should step your game up, and be on point. Her game and concentration lapsed for a few moments and ended up biting her in the but.
 
OddJack said:
Better common sense is following the rules, I dont know about yours.
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Common sense has been before this match for the last 60 years or god knows how long. No footfaults unless they are outrageous when it matters.

Where are all the footfault calls against Martina Navratilova in this spot? Martina NEVER footfaulted in these situations? LMAO
 
stormholloway said:
McEnroe agrees with me. I wonder how many pros also agree with McEnroe. I'm betting 99%.

Clear my ass. Let the players play.
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Storm.

Top execs from American Express, Chase, Olympus, CBS, and the USTA had a meeting with Serena. They told her that the game was in trouble, too boring -- 2010 sponsors were looking to renegotiate lower fees, and Armstrong needs a roof. They made it clear -- indirectly, like Michael's hit on Fredo -- that massive compensation hung in the balance. "If you're going down, go down hard".
 
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stormholloway said:
Clear my ass. Let the players play. I guarantee that even Clijsters didn't want to hear foot fault. No player wants to win that way. And when even an opponent doesn't want to earn a point that way, then it's a problem.
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Again...someone who doesn't play sports at any real level - you always say you don't want to win on a double fault, ff or whatever - they always say that to be PC - but trust me - they all want a double fault or ff on match point. ALL OF THEM.

And again...for the cheap seats - she didn't loose the match on a FF! She lost the 15-30 point.

THE FF CALL WASN'T ON MATCH POINT - so stop b!tching.

If Serena had hit the second serve only an inch out should they have just played it? Come on.
 
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stormholloway said:
If you barely foot fault, then that means a linesperson could not have possibly seen that foot fault clearly. It was, therefore, too close to make such a call. It's the same when an umpire makes an overrule on the far side. You shouldn't make that call.

Some of you need to stop being foolish. Let the players play tennis.
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That linesperson was probably the only person in the stadium watching her feet. She called what she saw, end of story.
 
stormholloway said:
And no, the rules don't HAVE to be enforced regardless of what the score is. This is about two athletes duking it out, NOT about some old woman with GLASSES judging whether someone's shoe touched a painted line on the court.
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I thought GLASSES were made to correct vision...my bad, clearly there wasn't a foot fault because people with glasses obviously need to take them off to see things.
 
"to call a foot fault at that instant was uncalled for."

That sounds like the same argument Safin tried a few years back as if the foot fault rule is flexible. It's not. It's not like a time penalty. A foot fault is a foot fault. Match point or not. Without the foot fault rule there is no check on the server.

As one of the many thousands in the crowd tonight I can tell you that the only person in that entire stadium watching for a foot fault on match point was the linesperson.
 
Since when should the rules of a game change at what seems be the end of a match... the lines person is there to do a job and that is what they try their best to do. As Serena said she had been called more at this tournament than all of this year. Hmmmmmmmm... I guess all the lines persons (being politically correct here) are all after her.

Lets say that she did foot fault and it was not called... and she comes back and wins in 3 sets... how does that help Kim. It is no different then a bad line call that turns a match. The rules are there for a reason and as competitors we are suppose to play within them. If the ball is out on the first point of the match it should be the same on the last point. Foot faults should be no different, and anyone that thinks it should be is mistaken IMHO.

My cable went out tonight and I missed the whole match.......... would have loved to hear the commentary on this. But I assume it would have been pretty bias.

Serena has no class... she never gives credit to her opponent. Yes she may have said Kim played well and that she had a good game plan. But only after she said she lost because she did not play her A or B game. Funny but I have lost many matches because my opponent didn't allow me to play well.

She really needs to be suspended from play for a few majors for what she did. And for those of you that refer to Connors and McEnroe getting away with a lot worse... that was almost 30 years ago. Breaking a racket is an automatic and so is abuse of a lines person. It is unfortunate that the second is ambiguous and left up to the umpire. They should make it more concise by simply stating that any contact (verbal/physical) is an automatic penalty.

Ok I am ranting now and will get off my soapbox... thanks for bearing with me.
 
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