Your all missing the point Re: Serena

[fuzz nation]

Yahoo!!!

All this stuff on the boards today is almost as entertaining as what happened in New York last night. We ought to have different posters telling each other to SHUT UP for days!

Any of you who are objecting to Serena's treatment last night need to be illuminated here. She was held accountable for her actions.

 

[WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis]

Regarding comparisons in behavior that was allowed or not versus Serena's tirade:

"But there's a difference in this case. Connors attacked a chair umpire, who can fend for himself, issue warnings, take away points as he sees fit, and even default a player. Williams abused the lineswoman, who can't do anything but tell the chair umpire what was said to her. As a chair umpire, you have to protect your employees from verbal assaults. Chair umpires are responsible for the well being of those who work for them, and so the threshold for a warning is lower. Without a doubt, this penalty was warranted."

From Tom Perotta's article at http://www.tennis.com/features/general/features.aspx?id=184922

 

[Atom]

I don't understand why people continue to argue vehemently about whether the video is definitive on the matter of whether a foot fault occurred. Everyone can form their own opinion, but people who see it as black or white based on the video are being unreasonable. The most dispositive fact is that the linesperson saw it as a ff and she was the person with the best view. I have never called lines or been trained to do it, and as far as I can tell no one else here has either, but I would hope that if I had been calling that ff that I would not have called it unless it was very clear that a ff had occurred. What person in their right mind would want to make a questionable call like that at such a critical point. Unfortunately, it's a split second decision and we have to live with the call which was also the case for Serena. It's unfortunate that she lost her temper and essentially dq'ed herself, but that's just something she is going to have to take responsibility for. It was her own temper that did her in. People who cannot control their own emotions at at least channel them constructively are going to pay the price.

I also think the idea of have subjective tennis officiating like the NBA has is a joke. NBA officiating is definitely not what the sport of tennis needs.

 

[BreakPoint]

What debate class did you take?
cuz that's the greatest show of ignorance that i've seen on this thread.
WATCH ESPN!! They are showing replays of Serena's so called foot fault every 10 minutes.
That was clearly not a foot fault. Unless that lineswoman has laser vision, she would not have been able to see the foot fault.

I've seen those replays and in none of them is the angle as clear as it was for the lineswomen to see a foot fault. That lineswomen had the best view and angle to see a foot fault. Even Serena herself admitted that she foot faulted and is not disputing that fact whatsoever.

 

[BreakPoint]

In fifteen years of watching tennis, I do not recall a player ever foot-faulting into match points at 5-6 in the last set of a match. Has it ever happened in the hundreds, if not thousands, of matches I've seen? Of course it has. The possibilities are just too great to suggest otherwise. I've seen foot faults called, but never in such an important moment. There's a difference between calling it here and calling it at 2-3, 0-15 in the first set.

The linesperson has the common sense to not call them and let the matches come to their natural end. This linesperson apparently has no common sense and is so pedantic in her approach to the rules that it goes against 15 years of officiating precedent.

So should an umpire not call a let on a serve that was an ace just because it was match point?

 

[LafayetteHitter]

So should an umpire not call a let on a serve that was an ace just because it was match point?

BP, I don't think the guy gets it and i'm glad I don't play him in matches.

 

[LafayetteHitter]

You also have to set an example to kids (and sadly some adults) playing the game. You can not have people jumping down a lines persons throat making threats, at any level irespecive of who any of those involved are.
IT was not a "chicken **it" way to end a match because they had no choice.
If you break a frame in anger its a code violation, if you abuse a member of the line team (or a ball person i think) it's a code violation, you get 2 of those you loose a point it just happened a at bad time for her.But equally dont you think she'd of known that and restrained herself then after the Ump called the line judge over to ask what happened/ was said the judge went to her line and got another earfull from the player.On its own thats 2 seperate violations, making 3 so that'd be a game conceded, that brings much heavier post match penalties so they didn't have to stop where they did.

Now was anyone courtside to hear what she said?

Great post. It just goes to show you that some of those psycho parents on the sidelines visit these forums.

 

[West Coast Ace]

crawl, I'm sorry but rules are...simply rules.

Thank you. That is the correct answer.

I get sick of people in all sports who think the refs should 'swallow their whistles' and call things differently near the end. And that's interesting - it wasn't the 3rd set. On your slippery slope, the rules should change once a player gets down set game - that would lead to anarchy once the players figured it out.

 

[BreakPoint]

First of all Serena did not foot fault.

Prove it.

Serena herself said that she did.

 

[film1]

They should all meet for a beer

They should all meet for a beer and talk about incoroprating foot faults calls into the challenge system.
I play with a man in his late 70's and I always call foot faults on him.
I also like to hit drop shots and then use a lob.

 

[stormholloway]

When did Serena say she footfaulted? How could she know this unless she was looking at her feet while she served?

 

[BreakPoint]

I have NO problem with the foot fault call, though the foot fault wasn't egregious. What I do have a problem with is the lineswoman tattling on Serena. When it's match point at the US Open, you need to make sure that the match ends the way it's supposed to end, not on a Code Violation. It's really bad for the game and really bad for the tournament, and really unfortunate for the fans because it was a close match.

Obviously this is a very subjective issue because you can easily argue that "technically" Serena deserved a Code Violation after the first set. But I find it really hard for someone to make the case that Serena deserved a Code Violation for losing her cool towards a lineswoman, especially in THAT situation. The lineswoman had every right to call a foot fault. But I've seen many a match where a linesperson will make a call and just sit there and take it when a player reads them the riot act.

It's chicken**it to end an important match that way, with the lineswoman scampering over to the chair umpire to tattle, and then after that, when Serena gets upset at her again, she goes BACK to the chair umpire like Serena was going to do something to her. Comeon....was she really going to hurt her in front of all those people. How can she feel threatened. The faint of heart should not be linespeople. Also......boo on the chair umpire for bringing the tournament referee into the picture. Chair umpires are supposed to use discretion, not simply be drones.

Serena should have been able to finish the match and then substantially fined by the tour afterwards.

Are you serious? The lineswomen did sit there and take it UNTIL the umpire summoned her over to the chair to find out what Serena said to her. She did not go to the chair of her own volition. The rule is that whenever a player says something to a linesperson, the linesperson is supposed to report what was said to the umpire immediately.

 

[Richie Rich]

all this stuff about "the foot fault shouldn't have been called since it's a semi final" blah, blah, blah is complete rubbish. the foot fault rules are there for a reason. if you step on or over the baseline you are gaining an advantage on the returner. i don't know how much advantage serena was getting by knicking the line with the outside of her shoe but it's besides the point. she was called on it and rightfully so.

now, to gain people's respect, all she had to say in her post match comments was something along the lines of "i'm sorry. it was a critical moment in the match and i lost my composure. i said some things to the lineswoman that were inappropriate and i'd like to apologize to her"

we've all been in heated situations where we say something wrong. while not condoning what she said or how she handled it i can understand, especially at that juncture of the match.

but what does she do? she acts as if it's beneath her to apologize. unbelievable. what a sad individual.

 

[CalmxPanicked17]

Yes, rules are rules, but i think, since it wasn't a blatant foot fault, a bit of discretion could've been used- often, linespeople give players the benefit of the doubt if it's very close like that, especially when they sense it's a critical time. think about it: serena was about to *possibly* be part of the upset of the year. would it have killed the linesperson to let it play out like it was supposed to? Now the whole thing is marred by a scandal.

Also, we should get a system in place to clearly show footfaults, at least in the stadiums. Then none of this is an issue.

 

[r2473]

I have to wonder what people would say if Federer or Nadal lose their semi-final match today in the exact way.

Or maybe in Nadal's case, if the official decides to call a time penalty in the 5th set match point.

I think it is easy to hide behind the "rules are rules" argument, but that would presuppose that every violation is always called. it is not. So, to call such a tight foot fault in that situation is not good judgment in my opinion.

 

[WBF]

This issue does highlight who the morons who think rules should be selectively enforced. That's about the only positive I can think of.

Also... It needs to be repeated that even if there was no foot fault, heck, even if the linesperson was laughing at Serena, Serena's actions were abhorrent.

 

[BreakPoint]

When did Serena say she footfaulted? How could she know this unless she was looking at her feet while she served?

Why don't you actually read her entire press conference that has been posted and linked here many times? How many times do we have to answer this same question for you?

http://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/interviews/2009-09-12/200909121252748398140.html

Q. What is your consideration of what the linesperson did? Obviously you had a problem with it.
SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, yeah. Clearly just ‑‑ in all year I don't ‑‑ I've never been foot faulted, and then suddenly in this tournament they keep calling foot faults.
I'm not saying I don't, but like ‑‑ I don't know. You know, I'm not going to sit here and make an excuse. If I foot fault, I did. It was what it was, and that's basically all it was.

Q. How many times were you called for a foot fault during this tournament?
SERENA WILLIAMS: A lot. I mean, compared to all year? A lot. I haven't been called for a foot fault all year until I got to New York, so maybe when I come to this tournament I have to step two feet back.

Q. Would you be interested to see if you actually foot faulted?
SERENA WILLIAMS: I'm pretty sure I did. If she called a foot fault, she must have seen a foot fault. I mean, she was doing her job. I'm not going to knock her for not doing her job.

 

[CalmxPanicked17]

I have to wonder what people would say if Federer or Nadal lose their semi-final match today in the exact way.

Or maybe in Nadal's case, if the official decides to call a time warning (like in Wimby '08) at a key point in the match (when it had not been done all match up to that point).

I think it is easy to hide behind the "rules are rules" argument, but that would presuppose that every violation is always called. it is not. So, to call such a tight foot fault in that situation is not good judgment in my opinion.

that's my point. Some call every infraction, and some are pretty chill. no one wants to admit it, but linespeople have a good bit of control over the match.

 

[Richie Rich]

I have to wonder what people would say if Federer or Nadal lose their semi-final match today in the exact way.

Or maybe in Nadal's case, if the official decides to call a time warning (like in Wimby '2008) at a key point in the match (when it had not been done all match up to that point).

I think it is easy to hide behind the "rules are rules" argument, but that would presuppose that every violation is always called. it is not. So, to call such a tight foot fault in that situation is not good judgment in my opinion.

linespeople aren't responsible for enforcement of the time limit rules - that's the umpire's job. and they have a little more discretion.

linespeople call the lines and look for footfaults. that's it. if i was that linesperson and i saw serena footfault i'd call it too.

 

[tacou]

wtf OP?? this is the same board that practiically demanded Rafa's FO titles be stripped because he takes 30seconds between points sometimes.

as you said, RULES ARE RULES. a foot fault = fault. what if it was not called and she ended up winning the TB and bagelling Kim in the 3rd. would that make you happy?

I'm pretty sure it was indeed a Foot Fault but from the one view I've seen it's hard to tell. doesn't matter, lines person made the call and it can't be challenged. Serena should have lived with it and served two big aces Roger Federer style instead of throwing a match she'd been largely outplayed in, conveninetly avoiding her first ever legitimate loss.

 

[woodrow1029]

Except that she was wrong . There was no foot fault.

The one that is wrong, I'm afraid is you.

 

[Atom]

I have to wonder what people would say if Federer or Nadal lose their semi-final match today in the exact way.

Or maybe in Nadal's case, if the official decides to call a time penalty in the 5th set match point.

I think it is easy to hide behind the "rules are rules" argument, but that would presuppose that every violation is always called. it is not. So, to call such a tight foot fault in that situation is not good judgment in my opinion.

Wonder what you will, but we don't have to wonder about how Rog or Rafa would react. It sure wouldn't be to have a mental bowel movement on the court the way Serena did.

 

[mlktennis]

To me this whole situation is a travesty all around.

yes rules are rules but we all know there is grey in the world and to call a not obvious foot fault is a travesty.

Serenas berating and threatening another is a travesty also.

To lose the match this way and not let the players decide the result is also a travesty.

The world is not black and white, it is grey and to me, common sense should have taken place, foot fault brought it to match point. let serena serve it out, and fine her severely after the match.

 

[r2473]

This issue does highlight who the morons who think rules should be selectively enforced. That's about the only positive I can think of.

Also... It needs to be repeated that even if there was no foot fault, heck, even if the linesperson was laughing at Serena, Serena's actions were abhorrent.

You sir are on cool customer. If I read you right, if you were in this situation (semi-finals of the US Open. Down a set, 15-30, second serve. If the linesperson called a footfault "even if there was no foot fault" just to laugh at you, you would have shrugged it off?

I wonder what Connors or McEnroe would have done in that situation???

 

[BreakPoint]

I have to wonder what people would say if Federer or Nadal lose their semi-final match today in the exact way.

Or maybe in Nadal's case, if the official decides to call a time penalty in the 5th set match point.

I think it is easy to hide behind the "rules are rules" argument, but that would presuppose that every violation is always called. it is not. So, to call such a tight foot fault in that situation is not good judgment in my opinion.

Again, only the umpire can call a time violation. The linepeople only call the lines and are supposed to do so without discretion. BIG difference.

In fact, the linepeople may even be trained not to keep track of the score as they change the team of linspeople several times during a match so they may not even know what the score is when they take their shift.

 

[BreakPoint]

Except that she was wrong . There was no foot fault.

Prove it.

Still waiting.

 

[r2473]

Wonder what you will, but we don't have to wonder about how Rog or Rafa would react. It sure wouldn't be to have a mental bowel movement on the court the way Serena did.

I seem to recall Rog getting pretty angry at a certain Hawkeye overrule at Wimby 07.

But you are right, getting angry is something only the evil Serena does.

Has anybody ever heard of these old players: John McEnroe; Jimmy Connors ("you are an abortion")?

 

[r2473]

Again, only the umpire can call a time violation. The linepeople only call the lines and are supposed to do so without discretion. BIG difference.

So sorry. I said official not umpire.

So then, if the UMPIRE called a time violation on Nadal, etc.

 

[DoubleWindsor]

When did Serena say she footfaulted? How could she know this unless she was looking at her feet while she served?

Your such an idiot, give up already and stop defending her.

Her stupid attitude finally came back and bit her in her fat ass

 

[kanamit]

I despise Serena and am not defending her at all but to call a foot fault at that instant was uncalled for. She had not been pinned earlier in the match (correct me if im wrong) and at that circumstance the line official should have known what such implications would have. I know 'rules are rules' but cmon at that stage who would honestly have the guts to do that. For those people who play tennis, you would react if that happened to you.

Serena's actions however were inexcusable and I hope she receives much criticism. All her career she has been a poor loser and that match (and interview) made it blatant for everyone. She would have redeemed some of her credibility if she had been apologetic in the interview but of course her stupidity got the better of her. For a professional athlete, this is one of the lowest acts ive ever seen.

Which other rules shouldn't be enforced in critical moments of a match?

 

[Atom]

I seem to recall Rog getting pretty angry at a certain Hawkeye overrule at Wimby 07.

But you are right, getting angry is something only the evil Serena does.

Has anybody ever heard of these old players: John McEnroe; Jimmy Connors ("you are an abortion")?

I can't defend Conners or Mcenroe for their on court bad behavior. Getting angry is one thing, but what Serena did was way, way, way beyond the limit.

 

[JoelDali]

SerenaSuxx

 

[Atom]

Nastase gave the finger.

It is one thing to say FU and quite another to say I am going to FU up.

 

[r2473]

Which other rules shouldn't be enforced in critical moments of a match?

The ones that are not enforced at non-critical moments of the match.

Don't be so high and mighty. Relating this to other sports, I'm sure that most people didn't want the imfamous "tuck rule" enforced. I'm sure most people don't want to see championships decided on touch fouls (that are sometimes called and sometimes not).

 

[vascoboy]

"I didn't say I would kill you. Are you serious" - Serena Williams

the best part when she said this, was when you hear a fan in the background yell, "yes you did!"...

 

[persistent]

Why make something so complicated. Strike one, smashing racquet, code violation. Strike two footfault. Strike three, cursing an official and threatening her. These were all actions that Serena chose to pursue. She has no one to blame but herself. Don't we all play by the same rules or is it different for the williams sisters. The post match interview was a disgrace and an insult to the viewers intelligence. She would not repeat what she said to the lines person,when asked about it in the interview. Why do people try to defend someone when they are clearly 1oo% wrong.

 

[Richie Rich]

To me this whole situation is a travesty all around.

yes rules are rules but we all know there is grey in the world and to call a not obvious foot fault is a travesty.

Serenas berating and threatening another is a travesty also.

To lose the match this way and not let the players decide the result is also a travesty.

The world is not black and white, it is grey and to me, common sense should have taken place, foot fault brought it to match point. let serena serve it out, and fine her severely after the match.

so what happens if serena foot faults and aces cljisters? what happens if she keeps foot faulting and wins the match? then what? you going to turn around and tell cljisters that the rules weren't enforced because it was the semi finals of the USO? and that is OK?

 

[hellonewbie]

The NBA is correct is swallowing the whistle in down the stretch in big games

Are you kidding? Selective officiating is why NBA is such a joke, teams win or lose depends on when officials want to enforce the rules not by how the players play.

 

[john5527]

The post match interview was a disgrace and an insult to the viewers intelligence. She would not repeat what she said to the lines person,when asked about it in the interview. Why do people try to defend someone when they are clearly 1oo% wrong.

Of course she isn't going to repeat what she said at a press conference because she wants to pretend it didn't happen. She probably is ashamed of what she said, but at the same time doesn't feel the need to defend herself because she feels it is acceptable behavior.

 

[Richie Rich]

Actually earlier in the match sh did ace clijsters and was Calle for a foot fault.

ya, i know. but i actually meant from that point in the match where she was defaulted.

 

[john5527]

Are you kidding? Selective officiating is why NBA is such a joke, teams win or lose depends on when officials want to enforce the rules not by how the players play.

Tennis is actually much easier to officiate compared to a contact sport like basketball where you have all the flops on non fouls.

 

[tacou]

Why make something so complicated. Strike one, smashing racquet, code violation. Strike two footfault. Strike three, cursing an official and threatening her. These were all actions that Serena chose to pursue. She has no one to blame but herself. Don't we all play by the same rules or is it different for the williams sisters. The post match interview was a disgrace and an insult to the viewers intelligence. She would not repeat what she said to the lines person,when asked about it in the interview. Why do people try to defend someone when they are clearly 1oo% wrong.

a post such as this should put an end to this thread, that's all there is to it.

perhaps you can continue debating whether or not serena foot faulted, but the only camera angle available is inconcslusive. as to whether or not it should have been called, that's ridiculous and there is no argument as to why rules are only meant for certain occasions.

 

[kanamit]

The ones that are not enforced at non-critical moments of the match.

Don't be so high and mighty. Relating this to other sports, I'm sure that most people didn't want the imfamous "tuck rule" enforced. I'm sure most people don't want to see championships decided on touch fouls (that are sometimes called and sometimes not).

What specifically are the rules you don't want to be enforced at critical points in the match? It's a perfectly fair question and does not signal any high mightiness on my part. Answering "the ones that aren't enforced at critical points in the match" is intentionally vague.

 

[Beacon Hill]

I despise Serena and am not defending her at all but to call a foot fault at that instant was uncalled for. She had not been pinned earlier in the match (correct me if im wrong) and at that circumstance the line official should have known what such implications would have. I know 'rules are rules' but cmon at that stage who would honestly have the guts to do that. For those people who play tennis, you would react if that happened to you.

Serena's actions however were inexcusable and I hope she receives much criticism. All her career she has been a poor loser and that match (and interview) made it blatant for everyone. She would have redeemed some of her credibility if she had been apologetic in the interview but of course her stupidity got the better of her. For a professional athlete, this is one of the lowest acts ive ever seen.

You're missing an apostrophe in your thread title, but I don't think we're missing the point. Serena had been earlier called for a footfault. But who cares? She broke the rules. If she hadn't missed a down the line forehand up until that point, would we let her be just wide on one if it happened on match point. Selected enforcement of the rules is great for pro wrestling, not for tennis.

 

[David_Is_Right]

Asking people to prove that a foot fault occured is completely moot. A foot fault was called and the match is done. It's now up to anyone who disagrees with this call to prove otherwise.

To me, it looked like her heel went over the line. However, we only have one useless angle to go on.

 

[LPShanet]

Asking people to prove that a foot fault occured is completely moot. A foot fault was called and the match is done. It's now up to anyone who disagrees with this call to prove otherwise.

To me, it looked like her heel went over the line. However, we only have one useless angle to go on.

They did just show another angle on today's Nadal/DelPo telecast, and it looks like a probable foot fault from the other end of the court, too, though it's still not possible for US to make any final conclusion. Anyone who is stating for certain either way based on the television footage is making it up. However, there is one person who was sitting right on the line, and quite close to the action. The linesperson.

Unless we believe that there is a conspiracy and an intentional plan to try to call Serena for foot faults, it's probably safe to assume that the linesperson saw it clearly from her angle. Serena's raft of footfaults throughout this US Open have been called by many diffferent officials, so unless there's some secret master plot, it would seem that she is foot faulting, as she has frequently throughout her career. There's no reason to believe she didn't. Unlike a moving ball, a sliding foot moves at less than 5mph, and incorrect foot fault calls are extremely rare. The only controversies of any note that have happened regarding foot faults have related to interpretations of the rule rather than judgements of whether or not the foot was over the line.

It's pretty silly to assume the linesperson sitting right there was wrong, based on low-res footage we've seen from a distance and a poor angle. And it would have been a fairly easy call for that linesperson to make. What reason can we possibly have for assuming the call was wrong or poor?

 

[LafayetteHitter]

You cam make the argument that it was close....but it certainly was not clear and therefore should not have been called.

So you agree with her threatening the lines official and think everything was in order with her actions? If so can you let me know which Psych ward I should send the christmas card to?

 

[LafayetteHitter]

No she went over the line there.

She should have said "you cannot ne serious"
or "You are the puts of the world".....

But threatening physical violence is just wrong. I cannot defend the indefensible.

On the other hand .....she was placed in a terrible situation. That was a terrible call at a terrible time

Exactly, what she did showed her true feelings and her deep anger to the world. She is mentally disturbed.

 

[LPShanet]

You cam make the argument that it was close....but it certainly was not clear and therefore should not have been called.

Why do you say it wasn't clear? There is only one person who can make that judgement: the linesperson. It may well have been very clear from her excellent vantage point. It's not a hard call to make generally, and it's almost never made incorrectly. Not sure why it would have been made wrong here, or why it wouldn't have been clear. Are you suggesting there's a large conspiracy going on?

 

[Lionheart392]

Because it was not flagrant. Let's say her tippy toe skimmed the line......it should not have been called!!

It's so freaking minor and not clear....we actually need shot spot on that one .

Right, so if a serve clips the net but only ever so slightly, does that mean it shouldn't be a let?