Your opinions that majority do not share vol. 2

“Serve and volley could work in todays era. It just isn't being taught because it's easier to coach baseline bashing”

this jus isnt true lol...guys like nadal can hit such great passing shots that if u come to net on anything less than a great setup shot, you’re toast. Djokovic service return so good, serve n volley jus isnt possible...





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Djokodal are two of the best defenders and passers, but they don't represent the whole tour
 

blai212

Semi-Pro
One guy disagrees.



There's surely juniors out there who would be capable of playing serve volley to a higher standard than Brown, if they were taught to.

If guys with obviously limited talent like Raonic and Anderson can make major finals, i imagine it would be possible for a serve volleyer to make it to the top.
yet none have actually got over the hump because federer djokovic nadal murray all hit successful passing shots with such a high frequency that it negates any edge in serve n volley game


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blai212

Semi-Pro
One guy disagrees.



There's surely juniors out there who would be capable of playing serve volley to a higher standard than Brown, if they were taught to.

If guys with obviously limited talent like Raonic and Anderson can make major finals, i imagine it would be possible for a serve volleyer to make it to the top.
oh yeah, did u see raonic get absolutely owned by pouille in australian open this past year? yeah, serve n volley doesnt work


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blai212

Semi-Pro
dont get me wrong, serve n volley is a good tactic sometimes but can only be employed every once in a while as part of a balanced overall strategy as federer does when he feels the need to punish weak service returns...it cannot be used at a high frequency like edberg and sampras used to employ back in the day. I think this may be due to the technological advancements in the game allowing players to hit with more power/spin from baseline


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George Turner

Hall of Fame
oh yeah, did u see raonic get absolutely owned by pouille in australian open this past year? yeah, serve n volley doesnt work

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Raonic lost for the same reason as most his other losses; He's slow, bad return of serve and he hasn't learned how to hit a backhand. These are glaring holes that aren't to do with serve volleying.

He also is not a natural volleyer; he's a robotic player who hasn't got the natural instinct to be a top volleyer.
 

WestboroChe

Hall of Fame
Okay, a top 10 player, surely we can talk about that. If that would lead to a couple of Slams is another question.

And he didn’t do S&V after every first and second serve (he only did that on grass), but at least after almost every first serve, even on clay. He really tried to win RG with S&V. Only in the first few years of his career he was more of an all-rounder.

The mental toughness depends on how good his game generally works I think. He knew that if his serve is good enough he would have the easy volley. So it’s also easier to be mentally tough as if instead you have to hope (like today) that the passing shot isn’t the best.

Nothing would be played on Sampras’ terms today, and his success would suffer severely. The well-know picture of him getting past left and right on clay (be it on his own serve or after hopeless attempts of chip-and-charge) would transfer to all surfaces.

His style on clay back then was the proof that he either couldn’t rallye there with any decent player or didn’t trust in his abilities. Imagine how this attitude would be punished in today’s overall baseline era.

I was a huge Sampras fan as a child by the way.
I think someone with his talent and dedication would make it work. The S&V play increased over the years because he could do it and possibly also to shorten points as he was suffering from anemia. I think he could adapt to today’s game fine if he came up as a junior now.

I personally think he would have no trouble with anyone outside the top 30. However someone like Nadal or Djoker with their excellent defense would give him fits, definitely. But let’s remember that those are two of the GOAT candidates. You think someone like zverev or Wawrinka would be able to beat him easily? Please those guys would get so frustrated playing him. I can just see Zverev fighting back the tears and trying to save face a the post match presser.

FWIW I hated Pete growing up because he was boring and always beat other players I liked more. But as time has passed I’ve come to appreciate how good he was.
 

WestboroChe

Hall of Fame
dont get me wrong, serve n volley is a good tactic sometimes but can only be employed every once in a while as part of a balanced overall strategy as federer does when he feels the need to punish weak service returns...it cannot be used at a high frequency like edberg and sampras used to employ back in the day. I think this may be due to the technological advancements in the game allowing players to hit with more power/spin from baseline


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Totally. The polyester strings let these guys hit defensive shots that would have been unthinkable in the 90s.
 

WestboroChe

Hall of Fame
Raonic lost for the same reason as most his other losses; He's slow, bad return of serve and he hasn't learned how to hit a backhand. These are glaring holes that aren't to do with serve volleying.

He also is not a natural volleyer; he's a robotic player who hasn't got the natural instinct to be a top volleyer.
I think the fact that he’s a nice guy and doesn’t play the same way as everyone else blinds us to these deficiencies.
 
Why you think that? :). I see Tsitsi more of a big hitter who doesnt like the low bounce on grass. Would think USO maybe will be his best slam.
I could see that, I just think his net skills are going to improve even more and will relish the idea of using it tactically to take a unique advantage such as Fed.

As far as Thiem (basher), he can get away with lack of tennis brain at the USO while still bashing the ball everywhere. Plus it is just like clay these days, just slightly faster which will help his bashing.
 

blai212

Semi-Pro
Raonic lost for the same reason as most his other losses; He's slow, bad return of serve and he hasn't learned how to hit a backhand. These are glaring holes that aren't to do with serve volleying.

He also is not a natural volleyer; he's a robotic player who hasn't got the natural instinct to be a top volleyer.
so what’s dustin brown’s excuse for not making S & V game work? The game has jus changed so much with the technological advancements in racquets/strings that players like nadal can blast winners from defensive positions which negate any advantage of rushing the net constantly via S & V game....it just DOESNT work!!! I would say it’s similar with NBA how it’s transitioned to 3 pointers + layups/dunks...the mid range game has become outdated. Guys like carmelo anthony cant play their style of basketball because their deficiencies have been exposed.


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Jonas78

Legend
I could see that, I just think his net skills are going to improve even more and will relish the idea of using it tactically to take a unique advantage such as Fed.

As far as Thiem (basher), he can get away with lack of tennis brain at the USO while still bashing the ball everywhere. Plus it is just like clay these days, just slightly faster which will help his bashing.
Im still not sure about Thiem, i wouldnt be surprised if he never wins a slam. His bottom level is so bad he still loses R1 to nobodies. I know he has reached 2 FO finals but he is still very inconsistent. On hard his return stats are still way too bad.

I think Tsitsi will do better on a little slower, higher bouncing surfaces. His serve isnt that good, especially for his height. Not good at returning on faster surfaces either. We will see:)
 

WestboroChe

Hall of Fame
so what’s dustin brown’s excuse for not making S & V game work? The game has jus changed so much with the technological advancements in racquets/strings that players like nadal can blast winners from defensive positions which negate any advantage of rushing the net constantly via S & V game....it just DOESNT work!!! I would say it’s similar with NBA how it’s transitioned to 3 pointers + layups/dunks...the mid range game has become outdated. Guys like carmelo anthony cant play their style of basketball because their deficiencies have been exposed.


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You’re 100% correct. S&V as a playing style is dead. (That doesn’t mean dead forever but for now it is) As a tactic it is still viable but it requires the player to actually think and say hey this guys just bunting back returns down the middle. Maybe I should sneak in and punish him for his laziness?

Interestingly both sets of fans seem to not care for the new game. Personally I can’t really stand to watch tennis anymore because everyone plays the same way and every point takes like 30 shots now. Who has time to sit down and watch a 5 hour match?

It’s not just the string either. It appears that almost every tournament has slowed the courts which of course makes S&V even harder to pull off.
 

blai212

Semi-Pro
You’re 100% correct. S&V as a playing style is dead. (That doesn’t mean dead forever but for now it is) As a tactic it is still viable but it requires the player to actually think and say hey this guys just bunting back returns down the middle. Maybe I should sneak in and punish him for his laziness?

Interestingly both sets of fans seem to not care for the new game. Personally I can’t really stand to watch tennis anymore because everyone plays the same way and every point takes like 30 shots now. Who has time to sit down and watch a 5 hour match?

It’s not just the string either. It appears that almost every tournament has slowed the courts which of course makes S&V even harder to pull off.
well said. However, I do still enjoy watching the power players brawl it out


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WestboroChe

Hall of Fame
well said. However, I do still enjoy watching the power players brawl it out


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It’s cool for a while because you see them hitting amazing shots then you realize that’s just the new normal now. Sort of like how too many HRs in baseball has actually made the game much more boring.
 

blai212

Semi-Pro
It’s cool for a while because you see them hitting amazing shots then you realize that’s just the new normal now. Sort of like how too many HRs in baseball has actually made the game much more boring.
i dont watch too much baseball but I thought HRs are always fun...except for the pitcher


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victorcruz

Professional
I thought Rafa playing Djoker in the FO 2011 Final would have done wonders for his confidence going forward against him. He would have beat Novak and turned the table on the rivalry. Would have beaten him again either at Wimby or USO (maybe even both). Of course no one really shares that opinion with me, apparently Rafa is capable of losing in a French Open Final (news to me).
 

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
1. Nadal never developed his full total game potential because he was soo good at dominating clay with this one dimensional style.

2. Uncle Tony did as many good things for his nephew as bad ones. Probably more the latter.

3. Novak deserves mad props from dominating both peak Nadal and peak Fed, yet he did it with a laborious / unimpressive style of play.

4. Fedr is a great champion but a small man.

5. This forum censures anyone not worshiping Fed.

6. Murray will quit pro tennis during 2020 without winning or playing any singles match.

7. Doping cases in tennis among the top 20 are being swept under the rug.

8. Tennis' big secret still remains it's one of the most unfair sport on the face of the earth prize-money wise, and that's not going to change until the top 5 stop being so unbelievably greedy- ALL OF THEM.
 
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victorcruz

Professional
5. This forum censures anyone not worshiping Fed.
This. Some Federer obsessist was calling me a troll because of my ratio of posts to 'likes'

I'm like hello, do you realize I am in 'enemy territory' every second I'm on here? Garbage posts get 'likes' because they attack Nadal. I have no problem appreciating Viva La Booj's posts because I know he says it tongue in cheek and he/she is usually clever/funny. But most of the time it's mundane whining that is not creative at all, unfunny you might call it. Boohoooooooo he has prevented my hero from getting 6 more slams BOOOHOOOOO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Jeez.
 

Raining hopes

Hall of Fame
This. Some Federer obsessist was calling me a troll because of my ratio of posts to 'likes'

I'm like hello, do you realize I am in 'enemy territory' every second I'm on here? Garbage posts get 'likes' because they attack Nadal. I have no problem appreciating Viva La Booj's posts because I know he says it tongue in cheek and he/she is usually clever/funny. But most of the time it's mundane whining that is not creative at all, unfunny you might call it. Boohoooooooo he has prevented my hero from getting 6 more slams BOOOHOOOOO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Jeez.
Err go to GPPD thread list and you will always find 8-9 threads degrading Federer and 3-4 degrading Nadal.

The like thing is true but do not tell me that Fed doesn't have mud thrown his way.

Infact, each of the big three have a lot of mud slung at them here. Mostly equally.
 

victorcruz

Professional
Err go to GPPD thread list and you will always find 8-9 threads degrading Federer and 3-4 degrading Nadal.

The like thing is true but do not tell me that Fed doesn't have mud thrown his way.

Infact, each of the big three have a lot of mud slung at them here. Mostly equally.
Mostly equally LOL good one. Have you checked the list of threads? 50% are bashing or diminishing Nadal. Wait till Djokovic wins Wimby in a few weeks. You won't see 90% of the people bashing him (like Rafa currently), but it will be about 50%. And almost all of them will be Federer stans, dudes that live and die through Federer as if he is sending them trophies to celebrate the victory together lol
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
Err go to GPPD thread list and you will always find 8-9 threads degrading Federer and 3-4 degrading Nadal.

The like thing is true but do not tell me that Fed doesn't have mud thrown his way.

Infact, each of the big three have a lot of mud slung at them here. Mostly equally.
Remember the Anyone But Federer thread?
 

ReeceSachs

Hall of Fame
1. Nadal never developed his full total game potential because he was soo good at dominating clay with this one dimensional style.

2. Uncle Tony did as many good things for his nephew as bad ones. Probably more the latter.

3. Novak deserves mad props from dominating both peak Nadal and peak Fed, yet he did it with a laborious / unimpressive style of play.

4. Fedr is a great champion but a small man.

5. This forum censures anyone not worshiping Fed.

6. Murray will quit pro tennis during 2020 without winning or playing any singles match.

7. Doping cases in tennis among the top 20 are being swept under the rug.

8. Tennis' big secret still remains it's one of the most unfair sport on the face of the earth prize-money wise, and that's not going to change until the top 5 stop being so unbelievably greedy- ALL OF THEM.
When you say bad things in terms of Uncle Toni do you mean general things in life or tennis wise?
 

Raining hopes

Hall of Fame
Only the career inflation thread.

Nah, but the ABF thread, while not even rooting against Federer or criticizing him, got deleted within the hour.
That I didn't know, sorry. Threads here get deleted a lot around here. But it isn't as if only threads against Fed get deleted. I have had my own threads and posts deleted, even without having anything remotely questionable.


But again maybe the moderators are Federer fans.

Doesn't mean that Federer doesn't face a lot of flak around here. Considerably significant at that too.


Djokovic too, he gets his entire achievement discredited and overlooked. His personal life too gets more than rarely attacked.

Everyone gets ridiculed here, not only Nadal.

More or less equally. Moderators however maybe biased.
 

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
When you say bad things in terms of Uncle Toni do you mean general things in life or tennis wise?
Tennis wise, of course.
His tennis philosophy was simply to outlast the opponent in a purely endurance contest.

When Novak started running Rafa into the ground, Tony came with the brilliant idea of more of the same, and got identical results (the very definition of insanity).

Tony loved the spotlight and refused to give Rafa real coaches when it became clear Rafa needed to progress.

He would be laughed out of any trainer job with any other top player on the tour because he has no idea of strategy.
 
Tennis wise, of course.
His tennis philosophy was simply to outlast the opponent in a purely endurance contest.

When Novak started running Rafa into the ground, Tony came with the brilliant idea of more of the same, and got identical results (the very definition of insanity).

Tony loved the spotlight and refused to give Rafa real coaches when it became clear Rafa needed to progress.

He would be laughed out of any trainer job with any other top player on the tour because he has no idea of strategy.
Please be serious man
 

raph6

Semi-Pro
-Most of the top 50 players are doped, legally or illegally.
-Federer RG outfit was good
-FAA will be an ATG and possibly complete the CYGS
-Black chocolate is better than milk chocolate
 
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