YouTuber matchup Sam v Tim - NTRP 4.5 California vs Texas?

sammyp99

Rookie
Hey Guys, I had the pleasure of recording a match with Tim aka TennisTim aka TxT. I lost the first set 4-6 and was up a break 3-2 in the second when time expired for our court. He's a good player and super nice guy.

Take a look and let me know what you think. Sorry I didn't edit in the score. These are all points. I believe Tim will post a video soon and his will assuredly be better than mine :)

 

jhick

Hall of Fame
Hey Guys, I had the pleasure of recording a match with Tim aka TennisTim aka TxT. I lost the first set 4-6 and was up a break 3-2 in the second when time expired for our court. He's a good player and super nice guy.

Take a look and let me know what you think. Sorry I didn't edit in the score. These are all points. I believe Tim will post a video soon and his will assuredly be better than mine :)

Which one is you and which one is Tim? Are you the guy in the cap?
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
Hey Guys, I had the pleasure of recording a match with Tim aka TennisTim aka TxT. I lost the first set 4-6 and was up a break 3-2 in the second when time expired for our court. He's a good player and super nice guy.

Take a look and let me know what you think. Sorry I didn't edit in the score. These are all points. I believe Tim will post a video soon and his will assuredly be better than mine :)

nice hitting! who's who?
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
So, two 4.5s from different sections and sounds like a competitive match. Not to make a leap from one example to all, but seems NTRP did what it is supposed to in this case?
c'mon that's not proper use of ttw-ntrp comparisons.
you must compare to highest ntrp of one region (ie. sandbagger that's about to be bumped),
to the lowest ntrp of another region (recently bumped doubles only player)
and make a broad generalization about each region based on that one comparison.
sheesh, and i thought you were a #'s guy?!
 

BallBag

Semi-Pro
c'mon that's not proper use of ttw-ntrp comparisons.
you must compare to highest ntrp of one region (ie. sandbagger that's about to be bumped),
to the lowest ntrp of another region (recently bumped doubles only player)
and make a broad generalization about each region based on that one comparison.
sheesh, and i thought you were a #'s guy?!
Yeah, I'm more curious about UTRs.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
Hey Guys, I had the pleasure of recording a match with Tim aka TennisTim aka TxT. I lost the first set 4-6 and was up a break 3-2 in the second when time expired for our court. He's a good player and super nice guy.

Take a look and let me know what you think. Sorry I didn't edit in the score. These are all points. I believe Tim will post a video soon and his will assuredly be better than mine :)


Thanks for posting Sam. You've done some great work and look to be playing well. And Tim ( @timtennis ) is always a tough player. Awesome you both got to play and thanks for posting!
 

winchestervatennis

Hall of Fame
Hey Guys, I had the pleasure of recording a match with Tim aka TennisTim aka TxT. I lost the first set 4-6 and was up a break 3-2 in the second when time expired for our court. He's a good player and super nice guy.

Take a look and let me know what you think. Sorry I didn't edit in the score. These are all points. I believe Tim will post a video soon and his will assuredly be better than mine :)

Great post. Thanks for sharing. It looked to me like the guy in the white had was in a pretty big disadvantage when chipping/blocking the FH return. I only watched about half the video So maybe it became more effective later when you were up a break in the second.

But again thanks for sharing. Nice tennis.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
How does one go 20-0 over 2 years and not get bumped up?
if everyone in the 4.5 league is really a 4.0 or lower,... or if you're just generally playing other 4.5's all the time and winning close (7-6, 5-7, 7-6)
it's not by # of wins, it's by how badly you're beating other folks at that level (that gets you bumped up).
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
FWIW, I may be looking at the wrong Tim (I don't show him going 20-0 the last two years), but the two players I think were playing I have rated 4.45 and 4.42. So two very good 4.5s, but closely rated and the one break up/break down in the two sets would be pretty much what was expected.
 

CosmosMpower

Hall of Fame
if everyone in the 4.5 league is really a 4.0 or lower,... or if you're just generally playing other 4.5's all the time and winning close (7-6, 5-7, 7-6)
it's not by # of wins, it's by how badly you're beating other folks at that level (that gets you bumped up).
TX is pretty competitive I don’t see anyone going 20-0 in any level across 2 years with no bump.

If you’re playing close matches all the time you’re gonna lose 1 or 2 matches in 20 as well
 

sammyp99

Rookie
This is fascinating. I don’t want to misquote Tim on his record. It may be qualified by 20-0 in tournaments. Looking at his utr profile he had some tough matches in league.

Truthfully I thought I would be much lower than 4.42 as I’ve had some bad losses recently. Are you looking at tournaments and leagues? Am I correct in thinking if I were a 4.51 I’d be bumped to 5.0?

To the other poster, Tim is in California which I’m sure is comparable to Texas. I’m in Texas and probably have a losing record at 4.5.
 

winchestervatennis

Hall of Fame
Doesn’t
if everyone in the 4.5 league is really a 4.0 or lower,... or if you're just generally playing other 4.5's all the time and winning close (7-6, 5-7, 7-6)
it's not by # of wins, it's by how badly you're beating other folks at that level (that gets you bumped up).
Doesn’t the actual result compared to computer expected result have something to do with it also? For instance if a player is 4.4 and plays a 4.1 the expected score may be something like 2&2. And if thats the actual result, both players’ ratings don’t move up or down. So that’s not necessarily winning close, but it doesn’t move either players’ rating.
 

Fxanimator1

Hall of Fame
Hey Guys, I had the pleasure of recording a match with Tim aka TennisTim aka TxT. I lost the first set 4-6 and was up a break 3-2 in the second when time expired for our court. He's a good player and super nice guy.

Take a look and let me know what you think. Sorry I didn't edit in the score. These are all points. I believe Tim will post a video soon and his will assuredly be better than mine :)

Good stuff!
 

schmke

Hall of Fame
This is fascinating. I don’t want to misquote Tim on his record. It may be qualified by 20-0 in tournaments. Looking at his utr profile he had some tough matches in league.

Truthfully I thought I would be much lower than 4.42 as I’ve had some bad losses recently. Are you looking at tournaments and leagues? Am I correct in thinking if I were a 4.51 I’d be bumped to 5.0?

To the other poster, Tim is in California which I’m sure is comparable to Texas. I’m in Texas and probably have a losing record at 4.5.
You did have a winning record last year, and each of your losses and several of your wins were on court 1 where teams often play their better players so your matches rated quite well. And yes, 4.51 would get you bumped up if that is where you were at year-end.
 
Hey Guys, I had the pleasure of recording a match with Tim aka TennisTim aka TxT. I lost the first set 4-6 and was up a break 3-2 in the second when time expired for our court. He's a good player and super nice guy.

Take a look and let me know what you think. Sorry I didn't edit in the score. These are all points. I believe Tim will post a video soon and his will assuredly be better than mine :)

Good stuff! I've seen other vids from TT and have always been impressed by his game. You two are a good matchup! I'm a mid-4.5 also and think I would have a very tough time against either of you.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Hey Guys, I had the pleasure of recording a match with Tim aka TennisTim aka TxT. I lost the first set 4-6 and was up a break 3-2 in the second when time expired for our court. He's a good player and super nice guy.

Take a look and let me know what you think. Sorry I didn't edit in the score. These are all points. I believe Tim will post a video soon and his will assuredly be better than mine :)

Some legit tennis there. Good 4.5 level. Why so many chip returns?
 

FiReFTW

Legend
@sammyp99

Nice video, nice hitting, good quality video

Tim has quite a wicked slice, if it goes near the lines its quite difficult to do much.

But nice hitting from both!
 

ShaunS

Semi-Pro
Some legit tennis there. Good 4.5 level. Why so many chip returns?
Agreed, there's a lot to like about the way both of them play. I would second that the chip returns didn't seem to be particularly effective against him, but when you sliced as part of rallies that worked out. (Note: I didn't get to watch the whole thing).

Thanks for posting, good video.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
Hey Everyone, here is Tim's video. I like his camera position quite a bit.

what was his setup to get that angle?

[edit] nm found it in his yt description:
MeFOTO Classic Carbon Fiber Roadtrip Travel Tripod/Monopod Kit - Black (C1350Q1K) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BETIUO4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_gH0ACbX8RN6VB

I think I like that angle better. can’t tell if I like the overhead view of a qm-1 or the player view of a tripod.

lol, at getting your wife-pod to record (in the corner), my wife won’t even come watch me play :p


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sammyp99

Rookie
haha she is used to putting up with my stupidity. I forgot to pack my camera mount and she was tagging along for the morning.

I figured out I needed to stop chipping as many returns back in the 2nd set and also started slicing more to the forehand once the rally started. That seemed like a big adjustment going forward. Tim broke me 3 times so who knows if i would have been able to hold out the rest of the set. His returns are good.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
haha she is used to putting up with my stupidity. I forgot to pack my camera mount and she was tagging along for the morning.

I figured out I needed to stop chipping as many returns back in the 2nd set and also started slicing more to the forehand once the rally started. That seemed like a big adjustment going forward. Tim broke me 3 times so who knows if i would have been able to hold out the rest of the set. His returns are good.
Solid match overall. Enjoyed watching a propert edited vid :p

Both are good players.
 
Yes, I would say so. I think people believe NTRP is drastically different between sections but my experience is its pretty competitive. Maybe it's worth noting that Tim is 20-0 at 4.5 in the last two years.
Where did you get that record from? He lost twice during the regular Spring 2018 season and he lost during playoffs as well.
 

timtennis

New User
I misquoted Tim. He has that record in tournaments not league matches.
Hi all! Sorry I'm late to this thread. To clarify, my 4.5 tournament record is 20-1 in the Los Angeles and SF Bay Area over the last 15 months. League record is tougher at 8-5. I have some interesting thoughts based on personal experience on the level of competition in tourneys vs leagues...
 

timtennis

New User
I think we’re both around utr 8 range
My current UTR is 8.21. I'd say the decimals don't really count for much...I've been as high as 9 in the last year and am currently at my lowest lol. UTR punishes you for having close matches against players who rarely play tourneys/leagues and thus who might be underrated by their algorithm...I know a few folks who work at UTR as well and they're literally tweaking their algorithm on a weekly basis AT MINIMUM (often daily)
 

timtennis

New User
FWIW, I may be looking at the wrong Tim (I don't show him going 20-0 the last two years), but the two players I think were playing I have rated 4.45 and 4.42. So two very good 4.5s, but closely rated and the one break up/break down in the two sets would be pretty much what was expected.
Out of curiosity, where are the 4.45 and 4.42 numbers coming from, tennisrecord?
 

timtennis

New User
what was his setup to get that angle?

[edit] nm found it in his yt description:
MeFOTO Classic Carbon Fiber Roadtrip Travel Tripod/Monopod Kit - Black (C1350Q1K) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BETIUO4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_gH0ACbX8RN6VB

I think I like that angle better. can’t tell if I like the overhead view of a qm-1 or the player view of a tripod.

lol, at getting your wife-pod to record (in the corner), my wife won’t even come watch me play :p
I used the QM-1 mount for the view in this video. Prefer tripod view as it's closer to the court and more representative of actual speed and bounce, but it stands in harm's way when people blast flat serves down the T lol. Getting your camera repaired is expensive...
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
I used the QM-1 mount for the view in this video. Prefer tripod view as it's closer to the court and more representative of actual speed and bounce, but it stands in harm's way when people blast flat serves down the T lol. Getting your camera repaired is expensive...
interesting... on top of the curtain? are you using a zoom on the cam or somehting? with a 23mm lens equiv (on a full frame), i get more of an overhead type view.
i'll have to experiment with different cameras i guess.
thx. nice hitting btw.
 

timtennis

New User
haha she is used to putting up with my stupidity. I forgot to pack my camera mount and she was tagging along for the morning.

I figured out I needed to stop chipping as many returns back in the 2nd set and also started slicing more to the forehand once the rally started. That seemed like a big adjustment going forward. Tim broke me 3 times so who knows if i would have been able to hold out the rest of the set. His returns are good.
I definitely had to adjust my returning as the match went on. After watching some vids of Djoker, Murray, and Nishi recently, I've been trying to split step with momentum going into the court. Think it helps with control, balance, and depth of return.
 

timtennis

New User
interesting... on top of the curtain? are you using a zoom on the cam or somehting? with a 23mm lens equiv (on a full frame), i get more of an overhead type view.
i'll have to experiment with different cameras i guess.
thx. nice hitting btw.
Yep, on top of the curtain. It moved a bit more than I anticipated due to balls touching the back curtain, etc. but don't think there's a perfect solution. Will sometimes adjust the zoom a bit, I just use the "default" 16-50mm lens for my Sony a6000. Know there are better and more expensive ones, but quality has been fine for me.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Hi all! Sorry I'm late to this thread. To clarify, my 4.5 tournament record is 20-1 in the Los Angeles and SF Bay Area over the last 15 months. League record is tougher at 8-5. I have some interesting thoughts based on personal experience on the level of competition in tourneys vs leagues...
No doubt, u look like a solid 4.5 for sure, could play 5.0 even
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
Yep, on top of the curtain. It moved a bit more than I anticipated due to balls touching the back curtain, etc. but don't think there's a perfect solution. Will sometimes adjust the zoom a bit, I just use the "default" 16-50mm lens for my Sony a6000. Know there are better and more expensive ones, but quality has been fine for me.
what focal length do you set it to?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

timtennis

New User
No doubt, u look like a solid 4.5 for sure, could play 5.0 even
Against true 5.0s, a good result for me is getting 2+ games in a set. I don't have the point-ending type of firepower yet that legit 5.0s do. I can hang with them and even push them for a bit for a few games currently, but need to keep improving to be able to push sets vs them to be close or for me to even split them 50/50
 

timtennis

New User
what focal length do you set it to?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't have a consistent set length. It varies depending on the court, so I just end up eyeballing it. A decent measure I use is to try to get both sidelines within the frame, and for the baseline to be ~1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the picture, if that makes sense?
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Against true 5.0s, a good result for me is getting 2+ games in a set. I don't have the point-ending type of firepower yet that legit 5.0s do. I can hang with them and even push them for a bit for a few games currently, but need to keep improving to be able to push sets vs them to be close or for me to even split them 50/50
How long have you been playing tennis?

What areas do you think are your weaknesses that you would like to or are working to improve?

And what do you think are your strengths? (I wonder if u will say things that i also think)
 

CupidsTrick

New User
Hi all! Sorry I'm late to this thread. To clarify, my 4.5 tournament record is 20-1 in the Los Angeles and SF Bay Area over the last 15 months. League record is tougher at 8-5. I have some interesting thoughts based on personal experience on the level of competition in tourneys vs leagues...
Hi Tim, why do you think there such a difference between your league record and your tournament record? Is the caliber of player that much different?
 

timtennis

New User
How long have you been playing tennis?

What areas do you think are your weaknesses that you would like to or are working to improve?

And what do you think are your strengths? (I wonder if u will say things that i also think)
I first picked up a racquet around age 3 or 4, but didn't really start playing more seriously/taking group lessons until elementary school. Private lessons in middle school, played in high school, some club in college but was rehabbing wrist tendonitis for most of the time. Been fairly active playing USTA league and tourneys post college

(Self-perceived) areas of improvement: transition/closing the net; serving and volleying. Backhand slice and defense. Mental side: consolidating breaks and not giving them back as much lol

(Self-perceived) strengths: speed/movement, consistency, heaviness of ball

Let me know your thoughts?
 

timtennis

New User
Hi Tim, why do you think there such a difference between your league record and your tournament record? Is the caliber of player that much different?
Hmm I could write a long response to this but will try to keep in concise :) I think players have a greater incentive to self-rate and sandbag in league. Tourneys are largely self-contained and the accomplishment/achievement is pretty individual. They're also time-constrained to one weekend, usually. In league, you have more players, the season is longer, and you have the allure of competing at playoffs, districts, sectionals, and potentially nationals. For better or worse, it can sometimes create unhealthy fixation on achieving those milestones. There are also more variables in league play: home vs away (which can matter a lot more than people think) vs tourneys which are held at the same place across one weekend. In tourneys, your opponent is largely determined by luck of the draw. In league, some captains will flip lineups or do advance scouting and match you against your least preferred player. In tourneys, I sometimes will have a fairly easy match first round. That almost never happens in league as captains/teams are always trying to put their best foot forward. Anyway, a lot to unpack there. Just some initial thoughts.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
(Self-perceived) areas of improvement: transition/closing the net; serving and volleying. Backhand slice and defense. Mental side: consolidating breaks and not giving them back as much lol

(Self-perceived) strengths: speed/movement, consistency, heaviness of ball

Let me know your thoughts?
Cant tell you much about some things like backhand slice since you didnt use it much.

From this short video my opinion is this:

How tall are you 5'8?

I like your serve, it has very good placement, usually you see alot of 4.5 and 5.0 players just blast it but with no placement, but your actively placing it around the service box! i would focus and work even more on this, specially wide slice on deuce and wide kick from ad

Agree your movement is excellent

Agree your consistency is excellent, and also alot of spin and heavyness on the ball.

Also agree your transition game and volleys need work compared to the rest.

Mental side i cant say but if you say so then it must be so.

I also think your forehand is very good but you put too much spin and arc on it at times I feel, spin and arc are great alot of times, but many times you had a shorter ball and lots of open court where you hit a very loopy spinny ball with a higher arc and your friend got to it easy, when in this situation it would be better to hit a more flatter driving ball, go more through the ball.

Hope what I saw helps or maybe gives u some new ideas or perspectives
 
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