Zero Backswing on the Forehand - Can't Extend Hitting Arm!

Dragy

Dragy

Legend
ballmachineguy said:
I just happen to know the “push off of the ground” action for the ATP/modern forehand. Believe me, I am not hurting my arm patting myself on the back over it. It is so simple, I can’t believe I didn’t figure it out much sooner.
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You may be deluding yourself. I suggest putting your theory under test.
 
N

nyta2

Hall of Fame
ballmachineguy said:
10 minutes to teach. I guess it could take a person longer to implement, but there wouldn’t be anything to oversee. It is so simple, it just wouldn’t be necessary.

I’d share, as I made a video a few months ago. I just don’t have the ability to edit it so it is ready for YouTube
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i think the "fastest" progression i've used to teach someone invovled:
0. catch (to the side)
1. hit with hand (no backswing)
2. place hand on racquet face
3. slide hand down until they are using a 2hfh
4+. eventually remove 2nd hand (no mention of grips/ptd/unitturn/etc...)
for the rawest beginners
and for those struggling with keeping the face veritcal, i'll use a 2hfh for "a while"

but this crowd is too advanced for that :p
 
N

nyta2

Hall of Fame
ballmachineguy said:
I didn’t say WTA isn’t good. It was just the inability of the pro to get the student to understand.
What is meant by “ultimate blueprint.” There is a one-size fits all for the ATP, if you understand it. Sure, they look different, but all do the same thing. Also, no need for progress when instantaneous success would have to be avoided to not have it.
Again, my jumping analogy. If you tried out for a basketball team, and on the first day, the coach said you were going to work on jumping, how long would you listen to and get confused about “the glute/quad/hamstring kinetic chain,” the “dynamic knee extension,” the “ankle release” and the two-stage toe explosion” that all need to happen, Individually, at precise moments, before you just said “screw this, I’m just going to push off of the ground explosively like I always have.” I just happen to know the “push off of the ground” action for the ATP/modern forehand. Believe me, I am not hurting my arm patting myself on the back over it. It is so simple, I can’t believe I didn’t figure it out much sooner.
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i think/hope, the stuff that gets mentioned here (overly technical),... is mainly for this audience... i hope an actual lesson is more progression based (and not talking technical jargon(
 
Dragy

Dragy

Legend
nyta2 said:
i think/hope, the stuff that gets mentioned here (overly technical),... is mainly for this audience... i hope an actual lesson is more progression based (and not talking technical jargon(
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I hope so as well :-D but here we discuss not just "how would you teach a proper FH", but also "what technique would you teach", "why would you go with this technique", "why would you teach it this way" and "will it actually get best results for the student", and everyone may have an opinion on every step (y)
 
O

optic yellow

Legend
Dragy said:
All you do with your body is also to facilitate indented action of the racquet head vs the ball. Not just getting to contact and/or producing the power.
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One answer to this is to tell you it istrue, and learning ping pong topspin power strokes correctly can really illustrate it. The other is to point out the contact point and power are both components of the intended action of racquet head vs ball.
ballmachineguy said:
My own. I could teach anyone on here in 10 minutes. The guys you are following just broke down video of players that can actually do it and regurgitate those player’s racquet positions.
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I think the issue people have is that you continually say this but never actually do it. I get it though, not wanting to share the secret.
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
10 min to teach forehand. So It’ll pretty much take about an hour to teach the whole tennis technique. Amazing, eh?
 
ballmachineguy

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
Curious said:
10 min to teach forehand. So It’ll pretty much take about an hour to teach the whole tennis technique. Amazing, eh?
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10 years and you haven’t learned the forehand. Thats your problem. You’ve convinced yourself, through your failure, that it is complicated. You’d have to count in centuries how long it would take you to learn everything.
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
ballmachineguy said:
10 years and you haven’t learned the forehand. Thats your problem. You’ve convinced yourself, through your failure, that it is complicated. You’d have to count in centuries how long it would take you to learn everything.
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When I travel to the US next year would you be happy to play a best of 3 sets with me?
 
ballmachineguy

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
Curious said:
Yes.
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Ok. One caveat. You have to keep your current groundstrokes. Can’t use the fh you’ll see in my YouTube video and will embrace like a child with a teddy bear at bedtime. Nor, can you use a two-hand backhand, which is really your only chance.
 
Z

zoingy

Rookie
nyta2 said:
so what do you do if a student wants to have a backswing way behind them?
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So the idea is that if the problem is simply that their backswing is too big, then they should be able to just shorten it without any problem.

More likely than not though, the issue is that they can't shorten it without losing power, probably because they don't quite get how close to contact your max acceleration has to be in order to have an optimal "throwing" motion. So the huge backswing is really a symptom, not the cause, and trying to "fix" just the backswing by itself will feel really awkward.

This is mostly just based on personal observations and shortening my own backswing though, I don't have any real students per se
 
ballmachineguy

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
optic yellow said:
Though as I said tbh I would rather figure it out myself at this point since I'm 90% there.
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First, I said I needed a guinea pig. You only said yes someone do it. Why didn’t you say, “I’ll do it!” I literally didn’t get it that you wanted to. I’m fine with that.
Second, there is no 90%. You take a test, you get 90%, you know the 10% you missed. You can’t be 90, unless you know the 10. Just do the ten!
 
O

optic yellow

Legend
ballmachineguy said:
First, I said I needed a guinea pig. You only said yes someone do it. Why didn’t you say, “I’ll do it!” I literally didn’t get it that you wanted to. I’m fine with that.
Second, there is no 90%.
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No I didn't say yes, I said please. Yes there is no 90% in that the understanding is binrary threshold I mean that I am 90% to getting over it.
 
N

nyta2

Hall of Fame
zoingy said:
So the idea is that if the problem is simply that their backswing is too big, then they should be able to just shorten it without any problem.

More likely than not though, the issue is that they can't shorten it without losing power, probably because they don't quite get how close to contact your max acceleration has to be in order to have an optimal "throwing" motion. So the huge backswing is really a symptom, not the cause, and trying to "fix" just the backswing by itself will feel really awkward.

This is mostly just based on personal observations and shortening my own backswing though, I don't have any real students per se
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ime, for me and students, learning to "shorten it" required a decent amount of work to get the feel of the timing (i'm still working on it for me, especially for return of serve, approach shots, etc...).
for kids/beginners, i've had to put barriers in place to prevent them from taking a big backswing (ignoring how big is too big....)
 
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