Razer
G.O.A.T.
Yes and that means Pete was too good on Grass, thats why Becker decided to credit him because he felt from within that it was required.
Zverev should hire Rafael Nadal as his clay coach and sparring partner...
- Thread starter Razer
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Yes and that means Pete was too good on Grass, thats why Becker decided to credit him because he felt from within that it was required.
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Completely out of touch with reality. Destroying his life?? Coaching Zverev would not tarnish Nadal's life, legacy, slam count or money in any way completely absurd this idea. Not even Zverev's own life is particularly affected by the accusations, he did not even lose money over endorsements or anything.
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Two of my favorite players alongside Borg and Rafter. Krajicek comes next.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
They are all amazing players but I never understood why you are such a big fan of Borg despite he being from an era before you were born?
Now the big problem with Borg is his retirement. He is lucky John Mcenroe's career itself was cut short by racquet tech evolution. Imagine if John had won 12-13 slams, how will that reflect on Borg's legacy ? The people saying he ran away would now be 2X times. Look at this way, if Federer had left tennis after 2009 aus open loss and Nadal went to win more slams, how would we look at Federer ? He would look like a coward. It is good that Federer won 7 more slams after Ao 2009 and today all the people born in the 2000s who know of Djokovic-Nadal also know who Federer is, this matters a lot. Borg's retirement at 26 is a HUGE MINUS point.
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Because I have a special admiration for versatility and the different surfaces of the 90s and 80s and Borg's channel slams with baseline battles at the FO and serve and volley at Wimbledon are among the most impressive feats in tennis history (especially given that there was less time between the two tourneys and he sometimes played Davis Cup in between). Also he was a beast on carpet being 5-3 against Mac here.
I disagree strongly with the "running away from Mac" as you know but yes, his early retirement is of course a big minus. Without it he may have been close to big three territory in the slam count (and if he had played all four slams).
Hitman
Bionic Poster
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
You keep selling yourself your fantasy. Zverev is a violent offender. That is what he is known for (its certainly not for being a majors-winning tennis player), and I would not be surprised if some journalist brings this up to anyone on the Nadal side..
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Nobody cares if Zverev is a violent offender or not.
Mike Tyson was a convicted criminal, does anyone care? NOPE ... He remains a legend.
Only winning matters in the end...
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
You said Nadal's legacy or even life would be destroyed when he gets associated with Zverev, which is completely delusional considering that not even Zed's own life seems to get too much affected. The allegations went to court, they settled and Zed did not go to jail but still is allowed to play tennis and earn millions without much backlash. I was in Halle this year watching him play and the whole stadium cheered for him. Other than very few journalists and TTW users nobody cares anymore about it. The idea that Nadal would suffer if he trains Zed, that his legacy of 22 slams or even his life would be destroyed is so completely far from reality that I need to wonder where you are living.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
These people think Nadal is avoiding Zverev or doesnt want to be associated with him but in reality maybe Nadal has sympathy for Sasha never winning even 1 slam and probably wants to help if asked, this time Zverev asked help and immediately Toni Nadal and Rafa are ready to help him.
This shows that Nadal and Nadal fanatics (who hate Sasha) dont think alike, lol.
StefanosRespecter
Semi-Pro
Isn't Nadal preoccupied with his Academy in Mallorca?
Besides I feel like they aren't similar players, Nadal doesn't speak great English.
Besides I feel like they aren't similar players, Nadal doesn't speak great English.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
... with dedura-palomero as sparring-partner?
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Haha that is new. Guy is only 17 years old and has barely played ATP matches. Does he even have potential to reach "Nadal-like" hate-level one day?... with dedura-palomero as sparring-partner?
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Jep could very well be. Djokovic has also already shown sympathy for Zed. 100% sure that Nadal has zero problem being associated to Zed and training him. the only one who would "maybe" refrain from training Zed due to the DV allegations is Murray. But given what he did as a coach with Djoko I guess Zed can live with that.
NonP
Legend
Sorry, just seeing this now (FYI you need to tag in your original post for the alert to pop up, editing it later won't do). Wish I could say this is what Alex needs, but I doubt it. Literally everyone he's worked with outside his family eventually left due to "personal differences" and I don't expect this partnership (is it on for real now?) to be any different.
My boy Boris really helped jump-start my other boy Novak's career, haha.
And Boris' on-court thinking is sound. Off court, though....
Tennfan123
Legend
lol Nadal would NOT be into this at all. The guy has had a blessed life why would he taint it?
Konik_1982
Semi-Pro
Toni to Zverev:"I think you should start playing with left...it cannot be worse than it is now..."
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
Boris seems to be one of those "somehow tragic" cases of a guy who is destined to do only one thing (but this one particularly well).
NonP
Legend
You could definitely make the argument that Borg is the real GOAT due to that unparalleled surface versatility. At the very least he's up there with Djoker and Fraud. My boy Pistol and Bull trail those 3 in that regard.
Ouch!
TBF he's one of the few tennis greats who came from a relatively humble background, and we know those types tend to fall prey to the good life so he's not alone there. But yeah, the way he kept splurging despite that court case dogging him for years was downright pathetic even by celebrity standards. Dude had more than enough opportunities to get his life back on track!
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
I even mistrust Djoker on that one as he was never really proven on fast surfaces. Ofc he is better than Nadal here by a substantial margin but given how he performed against Fed in 2014 on even remotely fast courts (still no comparison to 80s/90s grass or carpet courts) I am at least sceptical to put him on the same level with Fed prime vs prime here. Borg seems to be another league still, I mean in 1978 he destroyed Vilas 6-1, 6-1, 6-3 in a grinding match at the FO only losing 32 games in the whole tourney. Then played Davis Cup against Yugoslavia and came unprepared to Wimbledon just to destroy again everyone with Serve and Volley including Connors with 6-2, 6-2, 6-3 in the final. I cannot even see Fed replicating anything comparable to this feat. Him being a beast on carpet still with a 5-3 against Mac and destroying Lendl by 6-1, 6-4, 6-2 in Sydney in November 1982 when the latter had not lost even one single match indoors that year is beyond impressive. Many like to scoff at his HC record, but even that one is still way better than Pete's on clay and on par with Fed's.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Why is surface versatility so important at this level ?
I mean I do understand the overall aspect of versatility, even some of the greatest struggled to be versatile. Mcenroe, Boris, Edberg and Sampras could never win FO, vice versa Lendl, Wilander could never win W.
Ok, so what ?
In the end if you can compensate for that on the other surfaces then isnt that a greater thing ? The Bull won 14 French Opens in 17 long years, isn't that a harder feat to achieve than Federer winning 14 titles combined at 2 different slams (W+AO) in 14 years (2003-2018) ... So Federer doing a 8+6 at those 2 slams vs Nadal doing 14 at 1, which is harder ? I would say winning 14 is hardest because so many younger generations came and he held them off ... Thiem, Zverev etc, he held them off and he also held all the people born in the 1980s also off for this long. If Federer's AO+W combo of 14 as great as this one ?
Thats why I feel versatility is overrated at the highest level. Sure Borg won 6+5 at the natural surfaces which are polar opposite of each other, but then the total is still 11 slams, if someone else manages to win lets say 6 AO + 5 USO, that will still be 11 Slams. In the end Total is what matters.
Wawrinka has won 3 slams (1 each at 3 different slams) while Murray has won 3 (only 2 slams covered here), so we hail Stan as more versatile ? It doesn't matter, isn't it ?
Kuerten has 3 FOs itself, I find that more impressive at least he made a bigger mark on 1 surface while the other 2 won in bits and pieces.
Agassi is known as the most versatile man between Borg and Big 3 eras, he has the CGS ... Ohh yeah, but when I look at Agassi what I see is the only ATG who does not have Multiple Slams on at least 1 of the natural surfaces ...
... Ohh yeah... Sampras, Becker, Wilander, Mac etc etc all have at least 2 slams at either Wimbledon or at the French .... Agassi for all his versatility could manage only 1-1 each on Grass and Clay. Ok you might say hey 90s was greatest polarity in surface bounce and speeds between surfaces, it was super hard to shift surfaces etc. ... maybe you are right but end of the say why should we praise Agassi more for his versatility when he managed lesser slams than other ATGs on natural surfaces in total ? This is why I feel versatility is overrated.If given the choice to be a 1 trick pony who wins 14 frenchs and another guy who won 8 Aus opens and 6 US opens then maybe I would prefer to be a 1 trick pony ? I dont know, at least history remembers me as a God on 1 surface, no ? Specialisation like nobody has done before... lol... Anyway, that having said, as Nadal demonstrated ...someone who is that great to win 14 french opens titles in this era would also happen to land in 1-2 wimbledons along the way because he is a too great a player to not be versatile at some level, so versatility comes automatically when you are so damn great on 1 surface ... maybe Sampras was unlucky for his stamina issues, otherwise he should have won at least 1 french open... not a big deal... versatility is overrated I guess...
octobrina10
Bionic Poster
YellowFedBetter
Hall of Fame
Uncle Toni isn’t going to change anything for Zverev.
1-He’s never actually been a good tennis coach. He’s a motivator, that was there to bust Nadal’s butt. That’s why Rafa started working with Moya.
2-From everything I’ve heard he was never there with Felix and was only ever a figurehead. Don’t see why that’d be different this time.
1-He’s never actually been a good tennis coach. He’s a motivator, that was there to bust Nadal’s butt. That’s why Rafa started working with Moya.
2-From everything I’ve heard he was never there with Felix and was only ever a figurehead. Don’t see why that’d be different this time.
octobrina10
Bionic Poster
Rafa started working with Moya because Uncle Toni called Moya in December 2016 and offered him a job at the Rafa Team (and at Rafa's academy as its Technical Director; Toni was the Head of the academy). Moya agreed on the condition that Rafa wanted to win GS tournaments again. It was a smooth transition from Toni to Moya. After Moya joined the Rafa Team, Toni continued to travel with the team for a year.
An excerpt from Moya's interview with El Espanol in January 2017 (Translated from Spanish via Google):
¤¤ Question: "How did the opportunity to coach Nadal appear?"
C. MOYA: "Toni Nadal called me when I was playing the IPTL. He knew that I was no longer with Raonic and asked if I wanted to be part of the Rafa team and also academy. My answer was "yes" in principle, but I said I needed to talk to Rafa. I needed to know if he was willing to do everything to win again Grand Slam tournaments, to become the world's number one again ... And yes, he did have a hunger to win. For me, that was fundamental."¤¤
chjtennis
G.O.A.T.
OP's idea may actually be materialized now that Zed is training at Nadal Academy. I do believe Zverev's best opportunity to win a slam may come at RG in the next 2-3 years, as Sinner's high paced game will be somewhat neutralized there. Zed has the upper hand in the match up against Alcaraz for some reason, so if he manages to beat Sinner on clay, he may be able to lift the winner's trophy at RG. Won't be easy though.
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