Zverev's loss, a classic choke?

vex

Hall of Fame
Zev did choke by not serving it out in the fifth, especially considering Thiem’s body breaking down. That said, it’s his first final to Thiem’s 4th (?) and Thiem is older and at max peak right now. Zvev could still improve. Zvev gets tons of hate around here but he’s a very good (possibly great?) player and he’s going to win more than 1 slam IMO
 

vex

Hall of Fame
No argument, I'm just saying Zverev behaved maturely throughout the final and was respectful to all. Obviously he choked, but so did Thiem. It was a double chokefest.
Watching Zvev stare into space, completely despondent, right after the loss just made me think this will be a huge learning moment for him. I think this match will make him tougher, I think the days of his early round disappointments are over. He’s not going to suddenly dominate the elite guys but hopefully he was replaying the blown opportunities and learning to freaking GO for it next time
 

Mark-Touch

Hall of Fame
The new thing he brought to the table for me was borrowing from his brother's playbook.
I've seen quite a number of his matches over the past few years and I never saw him go to the
net like he did today with a vengeance.

Not just the serving and volleying that he threw in occasionally, but the constant pressure applied
the first couple of sets. It totally unsettled Thiem.

But as the match wore on, I noticed he was no McEnroe up there.
He could stand to take a few lessons from him because he blew quite
a few easy volleys at the net..
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
Both choked when under pressure as the favorite or on the verge of victory. Thiem played poorly when he started the match as the favorite and heir apparent to the Big3. After winning two sets, Zverev realized that he was close to victory and choked the 3rd and 4th sets. In the fifth set, they would both play well to get a break ahead and then choke their service games, The trend continued in the TB with Zverev double faulting twice to hand Thiem two CPs which Thiem proceeded to then choke away with easy FH errors. On the 2nd CP, Zverev dribbled a 2nd serve barely over the net at 68 mph after trying a 86 mph first serve. Mercifully, the double chokefest ended fittingly on an error off an easy BH.

Somehow the word ‘mental midgets’ kept popping up in my mind throughout the match. It was just like the PCB-Zverev semi when Zverev was the favorite and in the final, the roles were reversed.
 
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octogon

Hall of Fame
Horrible choke. He could/should have closed out this match on multiple occassions. And he may never get a better chance to win a slam, as he faced a guy who was doing his best to choke as much as him.

I knew that he would get broken when serving for the match. His choking was that predictable.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Azarenka and Zverev...........what a pair!!! :rolleyes:

Both 2020 USO finals will surely go down in history as the worst chokeathons in the history of Slam finals!!! :unsure:
 

TennisFan3

G.O.A.T.
No argument, I'm just saying Zverev behaved maturely throughout the final and was respectful to all. Obviously he choked, but so did Thiem. It was a double chokefest.
I know you don't like Zverev, but I've always thought of him as a classy person. Fair, objective and well spoken. On top of that a genuinely decent person off court as well.
This introduction that he gave for Federer is so amazing - I just love it:


He choked a lot today and the loss would sting really bad. IMO the wrong and less deserving person won the UsOpen title hopefully this can light a fire than has been missing for Alex for bigger things in the future.
 

nov

Rookie
Do you ever compete somewhere in situation like this?I knew it was going to be match like that. 2 guys which never won slam have chance to win their first slam and its mentally much tougher than play Djokovic/Nadal in the final. Anyway first grand slam its hardest to win. Zverev will improve, and will win slams. And not only Djokovic was robbed at the USO, but Zverev and Thiem too, because they could defeat Djokovic and gain much more, chance wasnt huge but id say ~30%.
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
Zverev was effective most of the day coming to the net more than usual. In the end, Thiem was cramping and I feel like Zed should have made Thiem move and play long points as Thiem was starting to make more errors while only slicing his BH. Instead, Zed kept coming to the net shortening the points and giving the cramping Thiem a target at the net - Thiem responded with some great passing shots in the last 15 minutes of the match. A more experienced player would have known that he should make a cramping opponent play long points while moving him around. That cost Zverev in the end along with his untimely DFs.
 

JackGates

Legend
Would you say Zverev's loss was a classic choke, or do you think he brought something new to the table?
No, I think Thiem just is fitter and more effitient. Zverev has long legs, so he needs more energy. Plus Thiem is more prepared. You can't play grinding style with those long legs, it's not very smart. So, Zverev just ran out of gas. But he is younger, I think he will improve in that department.
 

urban

Legend
Yes, poor volleys at the wrong time. Nerves played a big role. Both had problems, when going ahead, and couldn't close it out. In the tiebreak, Zverev had two doubles, and was lucky, not to have three. Virtually all points in the tiebreak ended with mistakes.. On mp, Thiem had two forehand errors, too. It was a tense, dramatic match, but the standard of play wasn't high. Looking at the whole tournament, Thiem probably deserved it more, especially his win over Medwedev was impressing. Zverev had the easier draw, which opened up after the dismissal of Djokovic, but he played sometimes very poorly, lost many sets along the way. Still, Sascha has imo more potential, more power than Thiem, he looks sometimes a bit raw, and should polish his bis weapons. A guy like Safin was big and powerfuld, too, but at his best, had more control over his shots.
 
Both got very tight later into the match, but the level from Z in the first 2 sets or so was the best of either of them (also Thiem's worst) - he almost went 6-2 6-1, which I was actually rooting for given his prowess at the time. His serving and FH (of all things) were absolute fire. From set 3 Thiem got his rhythm going and was able to pin Zverev with more depth, but I daresay he was allowed to a little bit. Z was unable to transition from playing the more passive artillery style game back to stepping up to the baseline and taking Thiem's time away from that point and the slugfest ensued thereafter. Zverev then throwing in WTA serves really handcuffed him and made it even more attritional - It really did feel like clay court tennis late in this match with the ineffective serving and high spin groundstrokes from way behind the baseline. Thiem's return position gave me hives.

It's amazing how a few tight misses here and there and taking the ball a bit later can drastically alter the balance of a match.
 

junior74

G.O.A.T.
Zverev obviously should have finished this match. He was playing top tennis in the first two sets, I was really impressed and his net play was of a standard we seldom see these days - really super stuff. He kept Thiem in the dark, and should have won in 3 sets.

Thiem reminded me of Cilic and Anderson when they faced Roger and Novak in W finals. He was inside a shell.
 
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Rabin

Semi-Pro
Yes, it was a choke, no doubt about it. Worse from Thiem than Zverev though, it was his first final after all. Zverev has really endeared himself to me, I was rooting for him to pull it off. Played some good tennis in the first two sets. I hope Ferrer played a role in his performance this slam and that they continue to work together.
 

JackGates

Legend
Yes, it was a choke, no doubt about it. Worse from Thiem than Zverev though, it was his first final after all. Zverev has really endeared himself to me, I was rooting for him to pull it off. Played some good tennis in the first two sets. I hope Ferrer played a role in his performance this slam and that they continue to work together.
I saw it a bit differenty, Thiem got used to the style and raised his level, Zverev also got tired.
 

Rabin

Semi-Pro
I saw it a bit differenty, Thiem got used to the style and raised his level, Zverev also got tired.
I definitely agree Thiem could implement more of his game from the third set on, but I don't think Zverev got tired at all. He neither sat down nor drank anything in the final TB. The pressure of being the front runner got to him. And that TB should have been his, Thiem was literally hobbling around the court. But it is what it is, can't be too mad since Thiem's a decent guy.
 

JackGates

Legend
I definitely agree Thiem could implement more of his game from the third set on, but I don't think Zverev got tired at all. He neither sat down nor drank anything in the final TB. The pressure of being the front runner got to him. And that TB should have been his, Thiem was literally hobbling around the court. But it is what it is, can't be too mad since Thiem's a decent guy.
That's why Zverev was tired he neither drank nor sat down, that's the point. But anyway, I love Thiem, he is one hander, he was always a huge favourite since he regulary makes it deep at majors, so in the end I think it was deserved.
 

Born_to_slice

Hall of Fame
Watched only up to 1-0 5:1 for Zverev. but looking at these small highlights, Thiem hit a floating slice with nothing on it at mp and Zverev sent it half a meter out. Not exactly nerves of steel stuff.

 

Samo

New User
In my opinion, up to 5-1 in second set, Zverev was a superior player. No opponent wouldn't have much chances if he played like that. He played agressively and I recall the the statistic they showed: his first stroke after first serve was around 8 feet in the court, compared to the previous rounds where it was only 3 feet. However the nerves got better of him after 5-1 in the second and he stopped executing his game plan. You could see as soon as he served he stepped behind the baseline and played less aggesively. That is also the reason why his net point percentage plummeted - he wasnt as aggessive as before. Up to this point his volleys were almost 80% (23/29 if I recall correctly). In my opinion he would't lose if he would keep executing the game plan, serving agressively, stepping in the court, comming to the net. At the end he gave away the match. First he was serving for match and gave it away and then he made 2 double faults in the tie-break. This will be a lesson for him and I am sure he will learn more from it than if he would come on top.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
I rarely throw around the word choking but what Zverev did yesterday with his serve was a sign of a guy mentally scared. So Thiem is cramping, and Zverev decides to go for 80 mph 1st serves? He was all over the place with that serve. It became a weakness for him in the end, and all of it attributes to mental demons. He didn't play to win, he played not to lose. Thiem, although how crap he was, never abandoned his game plan.
 

JackGates

Legend
I rarely throw around the word choking but what Zverev did yesterday with his serve was a sign of a guy mentally scared. So Thiem is cramping, and Zverev decides to go for 80 mph 1st serves? He was all over the place with that serve. It became a weakness for him in the end, and all of it attributes to mental demons. He didn't play to win, he played not to lose. Thiem, although how crap he was, never abandoned his game plan.
Maybe you are correct, shows that Thiem has more experience in big matches.
 

Dragan

Semi-Pro
Definitely a complete loss of self-confidence during the tie break. A guy with a huge serve made two or three double faults when it matters the most, his serve speed was a joke (WTA level), forehands looked like he was warming-up etc... Will be better next time.
 

blablavla

Legend
I could understand the cramping more in a 5-hour match. It's not really excusable for two very young guys in a 4-hour match.
didn't Med fight the cramps en-route to one of his victories during USO 2019?
that wasn't a 5-hour match neither.

or you are now a worldwide expert in cramps?
 

ibbi

Legend
It sort of was, but his opponent choked just as hard over the course of the match, so this is not some Coria type situation where he deserves a spot on the wall of shame all by his lonesome.
 

weakera

Legend
Definitely a complete loss of self-confidence during the tie break. A guy with a huge serve made two or three double faults when it matters the most, his serve speed was a joke (WTA level), forehands looked like he was warming-up etc... Will be better next time.
He said he couldn't use his first serve because his quad was cramping and he couldn't push off of it.
 

JackGates

Legend
Perhaps they are not in their best shape, having not played much competitive tennis for several months? Give the guys a break, as the played a lot of tennis the past few weeks.
But shouldn't a break make them more fresh and rested? That's why AO quality is always the highest, because everybody is fresh. Does anybody dispute that AO produced the highest level of tennis in the past years?
 
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