Zverev's loss, a classic choke?

vex

Hall of Fame
But Zverev did go for it. In the second set, there was a point where he was 17/21 at net. It was Thiem who played tentatively and was terrified the first 90 minutes.
I’m more talking about the crucial serves at the end
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Would you say Zverev's loss was a classic choke, or do you think he brought something new to the table?
Z is a relative innocent in this sordid affair. Tim admits being tight in the first 2 1/2 sets and it was the first time in many years he stated. So Zed's high level and confidence of course was aided by this situation greatly. anyone who has been watching Tim play in this tournament knew once he woke up that the chances were very high after that third set that he was going to win the match. Naturally given Zed had much more pressure on his game, of course his second serve problems started to come to the fore. both players were cramping at the end of the match and Zed stated he could not hit a first serve in the tiebreaker.

For me to take away on Zverev from this match is that is that he brought much improved volley game. he had over half a dozen half and drop valleys that were disgustingly good in the match and at key times. I never thought he'd ever have half the volley game of his brother, but he may exceed him at this rate.o_O
 

Fintft

Legend
Yes, poor volleys at the wrong time. Nerves played a big role. Both had problems, when going ahead, and couldn't close it out. In the tiebreak, Zverev had two doubles, and was lucky, not to have three. Virtually all points in the tiebreak ended with mistakes.. On mp, Thiem had two forehand errors, too. It was a tense, dramatic match, but the standard of play wasn't high. Looking at the whole tournament, Thiem probably deserved it more, especially his win over Medwedev was impressing. Zverev had the easier draw, which opened up after the dismissal of Djokovic, but he played sometimes very poorly, lost many sets along the way. Still, Sascha has imo more potential, more power than Thiem, he looks sometimes a bit raw, and should polish his bis weapons. A guy like Safin was big and powerfuld, too, but at his best, had more control over his shots.
Agree, except that besides nerves, all Sacha has to work on is conditioning.
Also when Thiem beat Medvedev, it looks that the later was off, especially after that nervous break down with the ref. Plus Medvedev's FH was way off.
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
Zev did choke by not serving it out in the fifth, especially considering Thiem’s body breaking down. That said, it’s his first final to Thiem’s 4th (?) and Thiem is older and at max peak right now. Zvev could still improve. Zvev gets tons of hate around here but he’s a very good (possibly great?) player and he’s going to win more than 1 slam IMO
Since Thiem couldn't run well, why serve hard at 130+. He may have thought I can serve at 110 out wide and save that strength to beat him easily in a ground rally.
 

tim-ay

Hall of Fame
I could understand the cramping more in a 5-hour match. It's not really excusable for two very young guys in a 4-hour match.
Even with a 6 month break in the tour? Guys should be able to handle 5 sets and 7 matches with no issues? Like Egan Bernal at the tour.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
I actually thought Thiem choked harder in this match than Zverev. Zverev has well-known serve problems, which were bound to rear their head in the final, he actually did well for the first two sets to keep those in check.

But Thiem has a solid game without big technical issues, knows how he wants to play, and still was absolute garbage for most of the match.

Zverev did better than expected so I'll tune down on the 'choke' talk.
 
D

Deleted member 744633

Guest
True, but if Djokovic hadn't choked by hitting a lineswoman and Federer and Nadal hadn't choked by not playing at all, neither would have had a chance to choke in the final.
Machan, that makes Djokovic's choke the greatest of all :p
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Would you say Zverev's loss was a classic choke, or do you think he brought something new to the table?
So last year the world was saying Federer was a choker after W 2019 yet there is now a debate if Zverev choked? Almost surreal. Problem is nowadays people try to wrap people under 30 up in cotton wool and not offend them. What Zverev needs is to be told straight that he bottled it and needs to toughen up and there are no positives in defeat. All this nonsense that his time will come does not help him at all.
 

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
So last year the world was saying Federer was a choker after W 2019 yet there is now a debate if Zverev choked? Almost surreal. Problem is nowadays people try to wrap people under 30 up in cotton wool and not offend them. What Zverev needs is to be told straight that he bottled it and needs to toughen up and there are no positives in defeat. All this nonsense that his time will come does not help him at all.
Zverev mainly needs a serve he can trust. He absolutely has to fix that. If he does, he won't bottle the match like he did yesterday.

A Zverev trusting his serve is a very fearsome opponent.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
Zverev mainly needs a serve he can trust. He absolutely has to fix that. If he does, he won't bottle the match like he did yesterday.

A Zverev trusting his serve is a very fearsome opponent.
Yes. The serve is a massive issue but is anyone actually having a go at him about it or just massaging his ego saying his time will come. Someone needs to be really laying into him over it and make him hit 500 2nd serves a day if need be. As i say i like Thiem and Zverev which is why yesterday is so deeply disappointing
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Losing a match from 2 sets and a break with opportunities to serve it out is a choke by anybody's standards. Even Zverev must agree with that (or should do when he gets time to reflect properly on what could have been).
 

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
Yes. The serve is a massive issue but is anyone actually having a go at him about it or just massaging his ego saying his time will come. Someone needs to be really laying into him over it and make him hit 500 2nd serves a day if need be. As i say i like Thiem and Zverev which is why yesterday is so deeply disappointing
I had hoped Ferrer would have fixed this problem but maybe it was too early?

It's annoying the 'yips' are ruining Zverev. He would win a lot of tournaments if that serve gets clicking.
 

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
Guillermo Coria 2.0? Service yips, mental breakdown, then retirement?
Will be interesting to see if Alex spirals downward now like Coria or steps it up.

One thing is for sure, he needs to take half of the 10 hours a day he has reserved for gym work with Jez Green and put that into developing an actual 2nd serve.
 
D

Deleted member 744633

Guest
Yes. The serve is a massive issue but is anyone actually having a go at him about it or just massaging his ego saying his time will come. Someone needs to be really laying into him over it and make him hit 500 2nd serves a day if need be. As i say i like Thiem and Zverev which is why yesterday is so deeply disappointing
Mapla.. Maapillai.. மாப்பிள்ள.. This means son in law., it can also mean son of your sister, the actual meaning is bride groom.Since he is the Sil of the house everybody addresses him as maapillai. Actually the brother in law should call him as ‘Mama’.

Machchan.. மச்சான்.. This means brother in law…that is brother of one's wife. This is also used to address brother of a girl you are likely to wed… And cousins who are sons of maternal uncles. (because you can marry your maternal uncle's daughter).,

Nowadays it is used commonly between friends to address each other in an informal way. It also ensures that your friend, once addressed as ‘Machchan’ will look at your girl friend as sister! Thus the friendship is also strengthened.

Maapillai.. Machchan.. Relationships are very strong in Tamil nadu. They are friendly, trust and respect each other, protect each other, more so if one is very young compared to the other.

I would like to tell you something at this context..

When Pearl divers (men) go down to the sea bed in Tuticorin, Tamil Nadu , the safety rope tied around their waist has its other end held by none other than their bro in law. (machchan).,on the shore. Such is the love and trust between maapillai and machchan!!
 

Beckerserve

Legend
I had hoped Ferrer would have fixed this problem but maybe it was too early?

It's annoying the 'yips' are ruining Zverev. He would win a lot of tournaments if that serve gets clicking.
Yes agree. I wanted him to win yesterday as thought it may be a catalyst. I cannot see now how that will not set him back.
 

Mark-Touch

Hall of Fame
Zverev lost it at the net in the 5th set, especially by sending volleys to Thiem's FH side. He is not yet one of the "best volleyer" as Johnny Mac was saying...
True, but he also did not choose wisely in the 5th as to when to come to net.
So often he was setting himself up to fail.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Zverev's choke looks like much more of a choke than it is because he was on the beneficial and receiving end of a 2-set long choke from Thiem. He got anti-choked but that happened at the beginning of the match and he capitalised on it for an easy and unchallenged 2 set lead. Sure, he had the break in the 3rd, which is when Thiem started to play a lot better and Zverev a lot worse (his own words pretty much). Basically, Thiem trolled Zverev and it uber sold the choke.
 

Mark-Touch

Hall of Fame
Zverev mainly needs a serve he can trust. He absolutely has to fix that. If he does, he won't bottle the match like he did yesterday.

A Zverev trusting his serve is a very fearsome opponent.
Yes, when he was trying to serve out the match in the 5th, I kept thinking
Sampras would NEVER do this!
Some are saying his serve went because of cramps etc.
Did Sampras cramp on serve?
 

Mark-Touch

Hall of Fame
There were actually five major chokes in total on the men's side.

Blanch 1st round
Schwartzman 1st round
Jung 1st round
Busta Semi's
Zverev Final

All five players were up 2-0 in sets and then lost the next three.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
So basically what I'm saying is that two big chokes cancelled each other out and at the end one man had to win.





(The second choke always comes off worse than the first choke so Thiem gets a semi-pass + he won.)
 

Don Felder

Semi-Pro
That serve is a serious issue. It’s been going on for a long time. Nothing is insurmountable, but boy, part of me thinks this could be a career long problem and career killer for Zverev. I’ll bet his camp is pretty worried. We’ve seen so many once-solid nfl kickers get the yips and never return to form. It’s apples and oranges to some extent, but there is clearly something pretty powerful going on mentally with Zverev with this in much the same way a kicker gets these yips.

Beyond Coria, I’m hard-pressed to think of other examples like this. I’m sure there have been others. Who’s gotten over a case of serve yips like this? I know Murray and Djoker had a few issues over the years, but nothing this pervasive and glaring I don’t think.
 

jochooi

New User
Agree with Don Felder. His service yips is tough to rectify otherwise it would have been sorted by now. I'm willing to bet his serves are great during practice when he is not under pressure. But he has time on his side and may eventually prove us wrong.
 

Big_Dangerous

Talk Tennis Guru
No argument, I'm just saying Zverev behaved maturely throughout the final and was respectful to all. Obviously he choked, but so did Thiem. It was a double chokefest.
Somebody make a meme of the The Office "Fight" between Michael and Dwight, but photoshop the faces of Thiem and Zverev over them and you get a nice depiction of what the final was like. :-D

 

okdude1992

Hall of Fame
Watched only up to 1-0 5:1 for Zverev. but looking at these small highlights, Thiem hit a floating slice with nothing on it at mp and Zverev sent it half a meter out. Not exactly nerves of steel stuff.

They actually managed to cut out most of the bad points. See the full TB.
Thiem choked nearly as bad as Zverev. Entertaining but really ugly match

 
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bjsnider

Hall of Fame
Keyboard warriors always ***** players out for 'choking', as if it's easy for anyone to perform under stress. One thing's for sure, the critics are immune to mental breakdowns. Only weak-willed athletes are subject to human failings.
 

zaskar1

Semi-Pro
Would you say Zverev's loss was a classic choke, or do you think he brought something new to the table?
i dont think Zverev choked in the classical sense, he played conservative, not to lose, but unfortunately for him, he did lose.
Theim on the other hand, played to win, he could have lost, but he hit out and was able to hit winners when he needed them
sometimes you just have to go for your shots, especially in a close match, and you will win.
z
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Keyboard warriors always ***** players out for 'choking', as if it's easy for anyone to perform under stress. One thing's for sure, the critics are immune to mental breakdowns. Only weak-willed athletes are subject to human failings.
You're right. We've never seen players perform well in a slam final under pressure....
 
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