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Mark Vessels
Guest
I thought it would be interestring to the peoples of this board because Safin is an eccentric character. It is unusual to be a muslim when you are Russian but Safin is cool and more people will get to understand that Islam is not just for mentally sadistic people.
What is so unusual he is not etnic Russian exactly. He is from Tatar nation, which are muslims in majority.
If by "Russian" you mean him being from Russia then, it is not very unusual, actually. There is a lot of muslims in Russia, some nationalities are entirely muslim - Tatars, Chechens, Ingush, Kabardyns etc etc.
fednad
Hall of Fame
I second this -- Please keep religious stuff out of this board.
This board has a religion - name is Tennis
And gods we worship are : Federer, Nadal, Safin, Davydenko and so many more.
serve/and/volley
Rookie
There is only one god, and that is the god of Poon.
edmondsm
Legend
Mirza is Muslim? Are you sure you don't mean Hindu?
He's trying to get banned again.
As for the topic... old news, and so what? He is not really a 'practicing Muslim' so to speak, probably doesn't even carry a copy of the Koran (Quran?) with him.
Edit: Kobble, I stand corrected. Thought most tennis fans knew that about Marat (perhaps I hang around with too many Marat fans).
He has said on a number of occasions he is not a practicing Muslim.
Mirza is Muslim
Many muslim women do not cover their heads. I know some and they are definitely practicing muslims.
Safin's mother is a practicing muslim.
I have no idea whether Dinara is a practicing muslim nor do you.
I presume that if the person is not practicing Islam than they are not Muslim.
dirtballer
Professional
India is 10% Muslim. In a country of about 1 Billion that makes about 100 Million Muslims. After the partition not all Muslims ended up in Pakistan.
dubsplayer
Semi-Pro
bluegrasser
Hall of Fame
Tchocky
Hall of Fame
What's a "Tatar" and/or "Tartars"? Are Tatar/Tartar children called tatar tots?
what a bad joke...
galain
Hall of Fame
The requirement for women covering their heads/their bodies is not from Islam originally. It is an arabic tradition that was absorbed into Islam and spread with the religion.
Golden Retriever
Hall of Fame
That explains the uncontrollable bursts of fury.
Attila the tennis Bum
Banned
Tatar beefsteak is very interesting. Its basically raw meat and you mix it up with several spices.
It was invented by the tatars who were great horsemen and didnt have time to cook. So They just kept a piece of raw meat under their saddle. When it was time to eat they just whipped it out and mixed it up with a bunch of spices and the just ate it raw!
It was invented by the tatars who were great horsemen and didnt have time to cook. So They just kept a piece of raw meat under their saddle. When it was time to eat they just whipped it out and mixed it up with a bunch of spices and the just ate it raw!
jelle v
Hall of Fame
So he is not muslim anymore?
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Whoa...I work with two guys who are Muslim and both profess to be Muslims...and both drink.
I asked one of them at the Christmas...ehhh Holiday Party what kind of Mulsim is allowed to drink. His reply was not a very good one.
Muslims adhere to their faith about as stringently as any other from what I've seen. Just because he drinks doesn't mean he doesn't believe.
maneater
Semi-Pro
Yes and i confirm , on a number of occasions he and his family are not practicing muslims, i think his mother was orthodox but i cant confirm that, all i know is that he is not practicing muslim, and hes a tatar , what i can totally confirm is that he is the sexiest man alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
100% sure dude, I'm indian and hindu. She's kinda big in India, she got into trouble a while back because the conservative muslims were unhappy with her outfits.
India has the second most muslims behind Indonesia. I don't think the spread is 10% muslim, probably more like 35-40%.
audioaffliction
Semi-Pro
According to the CIA Factbook, India is 13.4% Muslim.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/in.html#People
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/in.html#People
Unless you're a religious scholar (be it trained via orthodoxy or theologian from a western university) don't make statements like this. You never know when an actual student of religions might call you on it.
Phil
Hall of Fame
That would be equivalent to 350 or 400 million Muslims-India has over a billion people. I think it's probably the third largest Muslim country, after Indonesia and Pakistan.
audioaffliction
Semi-Pro
Wow. What did Andre do? Kill your dog?
One other thing, Andre was born in Las Vegas. His dad is an Iranian immigrant, and his family is not Arab--not all Iranians are Arab. His family claims Armenian and Assyrian heritage, although "Agassi" strikes me as more of an Armenian name.
SoBad
G.O.A.T.
Iranian Arab Andrew Agassi did not kill my dog. I don't have a dog. I've never been to Vegas. I don't even gamble (much). I wasted 100HKD in Macau in a coin machine once waiting for a friend to waste a lot more. Anyways, if you are genuinely interested in the subject, I suggest you take a read here:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=105159
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Alex132
Guest
this is pretty dumb....i doubt Safin attends church or does any of those muslim prayers...not even once! that wont be uncommon
FarFed
Rookie
His father's last name was Aghassian, he changed it to Agassi after immigrating to the U.S.
crazylevity
Hall of Fame
Yeah, it's quite dumb to be assuming any muslim would be attending church, lol.
FarFed
Rookie
Every story is different.
Sampras' Greek legacy was recently widely popularized when he visited the country recently. So, he's "ok" with his Greek roots.
Maybe Agassi is too personal and does not want to talk about it, that makes him "ashamed"? Don't forget, his father was very aggressive with Andre's tennis upbringing, maybe that had something to do with it. The point it is, it's personal, it's their life, their story.
galain
Hall of Fame
Didn't mean to cause offence Chiru. My cousin converted to the religion some time ago. His brother in law is an 'ulema' - a theologian/cleric. That's where I heard this. Please let me know if I'm mistaken.
First of all, I apologize for the way i responded to your earlier post. Usually when people say what you said its said in a way that aims to belittle both the promoters of the Hijab (women's covering, I am one of them) and those who practice it (the women in my family for example). As a result i had a shortish fuse on that, and once again I apologize. It doesn't sound like you said it in that matter, rather that you have been put under this impression by that brother in law.
From this point on anything that I say can only represent the majority opinion (the 80-90% Sunni majority) which has been agreed upon almost unanimously amongst all of the scholars of Islam, about which there is no serious disagreement. Informally though, My best friend is Shia and he claims that the major branch of the Shia also (the Twelver Shia of the Ja'fari Fiqh) support hijaab. The Sunni scholarship is, without a doubt, in agreement.
As for the pre-Islamic Arab customs, whence the practice of Hijab is claimed to be originated, take for instance the fact that the Polytheists of Arabia would perform their pilgrimage rites in Mecca with Men and Women together and completely in the nude (both genders). This should sufficiently illustrate that shame and modesty were not hallmarks of pre-Islamic Arabian society.
As for the direct Islamic Religious (rather than cultural) import of the headcovering and dress for women, I offer the following evidences from the Islamic Holy Book the Qur'an (as translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, a unanimously recognized translation, although translations do not capture the Arabic subtleties):
Chapter 24: An Noor (the Light)
024.030
YUSUFALI: Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.
024.031
YUSUFALI: And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons,...(the verse continues to list other exceptions)
These two verses highlight a number of things. Firstly, the order to be modest in dress and behavior is certainly not limited to women but men also. the Islamic dress code for men, however, is not as often in direct clash with western standards however, which is why it is not often mentioned in the media.
Furthermore, the verses display an asymmetry with regards to men and women, while men are similarly ordered to gaurd their modesty and shame, the verse for men is much shorter and is not as emphatic in regards to hiding beauty, (the verse for women has been cut off at the end as I have indicated, but the verse for men was given in full). Ergo, it is clear that the verse places emphasis on a more complete dress for women. Furthermore, it is clear that this verse does not refer to simply hiding private parts (like a bikini for instance would) for this would imply that it would be okay to take even that off in front of the father, their sons, and others as mentioned. clearly it refers to a fuller covering.
Chapter 33: Al-Ahzab (the Confederates)
033.059
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons: that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
The interpretation of this verse should be fairly straightforward, asking women to cover their whole persons with a loose outergarment (jalaabeebihinn).
As to the exact details of the covering, the Sayings and Traditions of the Prophet Mohammed (the Hadith and Sunnah, respectively) have clearly demonstrated that the maximum exposure for believing women is the face and the hands. This is recorded at length in several books of jurisprudence and Hadith. I am currently at college and do not have access to my Islamic Library at home, but If you would like I could certainly send you an e-mail containing some of these evidences to provide further justification, when I get back on sunday.
The opinion of your cousin's brother in law is certainly rare amongst any of the qualified scholars of Islam (the Ulema). And by rare, I mean, there is not one amongst those trained at a recognized school of Islamic Studies that I have ever met (amongst several, believe me) that has shared this opinion, as it clearly runs contrary to various evidences in both the Qur'an and Sunnah.
I know this post is lengthy, but i hope that it conveys enough scholarship (without getting too detailed) to rest this discussion once and for all. I may not be able to presently convince you guys of the virtue of the Hijaab or why i support it, but I hope i have at least laid to rest this rumor that it is an arab custom, rather than an article of Islam.
And God knows best.
lethalfang
Professional
What about Christians who drink?
My bad audioaffliction, I got the percentage wrong.
Though, I am 100% positive that India has the second most muslims in the world, and Pakistan most surely does not. India has roughly 450million muslims, placing it second behind Indonesia. I think after India, its either Iran, turkey, or pakistan or bangladesh that has the third most.
It is not fitting for other people to judge other people's actions in the context of their belief as a whole. It's alright to judge individual actions like "Drinking is bad". However using that to pass judgment on whether or not somebody is a "practicing" or non practicing Muslim is neither the place of the individual nor a group. Rather, judging belief is the right of God and God alone.
galain
Hall of Fame
Thank you for putting me straight Chiru and for your post above. I'll be sure to not state things so categorically next time when I don't have personal experience with the subject.
My 'cousin in law' (I guess that's what he is) seemed a fairly moderate fellow from Singapore. I'm not sure why he told me what he did because I know he's a very dedicated scholar, but thank you again for the heads up.
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