Nadal wasn't tired or unfit, he was confused.

Rabbit · Dec 1, 2010

rommil said:
Yes he was confused, after knowing that his bread and butter plan is not working, what is he going to do? No alternative plan. Then he got tired of being confused..........that was the look we kept seeing.

This is spot on. I have seen that look on Nadal's face plenty. The first time was the 4th round of the US Open when he got beat by Youzhny in the QF's in 2006. He had that same look against Soderling at the French when he lost.

I think Nadal's biggest strength is that he doesn't change a winning game. He basically has owned Federer, and a lot of other players, by continually serving to their weaker side...not altering the placement at all. This was graphically shown and the difference between where he served Murray and Federer was stark. 90+ percent went to forehand against Murray and 90+ percent went to backhand against Federer.

The problem for Nadal comes in when it doesn't work. The question is if Federer has improved and figured it out or if it was an anamoly. Has Annacone added a wrinkle to Federer's game that now swings the edge back to him? We'll see.

But, Nadal's biggest weakness appears to be his thinking on court. While gifted physically and speedy, if what he's doing doesn't work, then he's at sea. On Tennis Channel, Jimmy Arias continually repeated that hitting big to Nadal's forehand to open up the court was the way to beat him. I can only surmise that he at least in part got this out of the locker room. The other guys may be writing the book on Nadal and using his speed against him.

I thought it was a helluva match. By the 3rd set, Nadal just looked out of sorts to me. Whether it was physical or mental, I don't now, but he had a look on his face like he was punch drunk.

sureshs · Dec 1, 2010

Bartelby said:
This means of course that Federer has been assiduously practicising hitting aggressive backhands, especially high ones - this is a good sign.

Wonder what took him so long

ashitaka2010 · Dec 1, 2010

Rabbit said:
But, Nadal's biggest weakness appears to be his thinking on court. While gifted physically and speedy, if what he's doing doesn't work, then he's at sea.

I don't think so. Being outplayed in 1 match doesn't equal being tactically weak during the game. Federer is not tactically weak either and has been outplayed 6/1, 6/3, 6/0.
I will not bother to list matches to make my point, but one that come to my mind was against Gulbis at Wimbledon (2008 or 2007).

EDIT: 2008

coloskier · Dec 1, 2010

sureshs said:
Wonder what took him so long

Annacone is the only one with enough respect to get it through to Roger's head that he can't beat Nadal at his own game. In the past Fed has always thought he can beat anyone no matter what game they played. I think the Annacone has finally convinced him otherwise. It is amazing to think the Fed has gotten so close to beating Nadal in the past by playing Nadal's FH/BH game. I think now that Nadal will be the one who has to change his tactics, no matter the surface.

Talker · Dec 1, 2010

The difference that I could see was Fed's mental approach. So many times I've seen Fed play very well and out of nowhere he starts missing some relatively easy shots. This match there was very little of that, no freebies that Nadal has come to expect.
There was nowhere for Nadal to go, usually he can pound the BH and it will break down. But all these options didn't work.
In the third set Nadal looked beat, there was no solution to Fed's play and any motivation Nadal always has was gone.
You take the motivation and confidence away then you take away the energy.

This should put questions in Nadal's mind, how could it not.
Fed erased some mental demons and he needed to lose that second set to do it.
This match was a big deal for Fed mentally against Nadal. If he can play this way with all the poor history beforehand, the next time will be even easier to play that way.

Finally I don't think Fed is finished with tinkering with his game and should be even more relaxed as he'll know better when to use the changes he's made.

BashTheMashIsBack · Dec 1, 2010

roger owns nadal indoors

10 chars. s. s.

illkhiboy · Dec 1, 2010

namelessone said:
Am I remembering it wrong? Wasn't it that missed forehand on Fed's BH side, that went just wide (and Nadal put his hands on his head after that in frustration)?

The first point of the third went the same way, as Nadal ran Federer along the baseline to go up 0-15. Federer’s early confidence had vanished, and he looked as if were groping for an answer. Getting broken here would extend Nadal’s momentum and begin to make Federer’s first-set performance look like a mirage. Now Nadal had him on the run again in the second point. Rafa moved inside the baseline and lined up for an open down the line backhand. He had the lead in his sights for the first time all day. It must have blinded him, because he caught the ball late and fanned it into the alley. He put his hands to his head in disbelief. Federer held. While Nadal would put together a strong hold of his own in the next game, Federer had evened the scales back up. Nadal’s run was over.

http://tennisworld.typepad.com/thewrap/2010/11/rushing-to-the-finish-line.html

OddJack · Dec 1, 2010

Good post Bobby, you should post more often.

Another way of knowing a good post is when namelessness comes running with couple of pages of response in a single post that's huge but empty like bubbles.

Polaris · Dec 2, 2010

delete post.

15_ounce · Dec 2, 2010

JustBob said:
We all know that Rada has a huge psychological advantage over Fed (i.e. "he's in his head") and that he approaches matches against him with the same confidence and mindset:

"Regardless of how well he plays (serve, forehand), I will relentlessly pound his backhand and I will win." (NOTE: My made-up quote, not Rafa's... well ok, perhaps this shoudn't be a quote )

Well lo and behold, that didn't work this time. Fed changed tactics and, instead of the usual steady diet of sliced BH, he unleashed a wide variety of topspin angled BH, flat BH returns down the middle, not to mention a very effective wide serve on the deuce court, and generally more aggressive play.

I noticed that Rafa, at times, had this "wtf?" look on his face, puzzled in front of a version of Federer he had never encountered before. So what might have been misconstrued for fatigue or lack of fitness (silly...) was merely surprise and confusion, which leads to frustration and lapses in concentration.

This win is huge for Fed not because he won, but because of HOW he won. Has he turned the tables on the psychological warfare with Rafa? A little yes, but until he can duplicate this win in a slam final, we'll have to file this into the (perhaps temporary) "boost of confidence" folder for now.

Regardless, 2011 should be an interesting year.

Great post. Yes, I also thought the same way while watching the match... Nadal was confused; towards the last set he had given up trying to find some answers to Federer's all court attacking strategy. I saw Nadal's complete surrender body language especially in the last game.. and in that last match point Nadal looked like swallowing a bitter moment.

Indeed 2011 will be very interesting. I hope Del Potro will be healthy and rejuvenated. He'll make things more interesting...

tlm · Dec 3, 2010

JustBob said:
We all know that Rada has a huge psychological advantage over Fed (i.e. "he's in his head") and that he approaches matches against him with the same confidence and mindset:

"Regardless of how well he plays (serve, forehand), I will relentlessly pound his backhand and I will win." (NOTE: My made-up quote, not Rafa's... well ok, perhaps this shoudn't be a quote )

Well lo and behold, that didn't work this time. Fed changed tactics and, instead of the usual steady diet of sliced BH, he unleashed a wide variety of topspin angled BH, flat BH returns down the middle, not to mention a very effective wide serve on the deuce court, and generally more aggressive play.

I noticed that Rafa, at times, had this "wtf?" look on his face, puzzled in front of a version of Federer he had never encountered before. So what might have been misconstrued for fatigue or lack of fitness (silly...) was merely surprise and confusion, which leads to frustration and lapses in concentration.

This win is huge for Fed not because he won, but because of HOW he won. Has he turned the tables on the psychological warfare with Rafa? A little yes, but until he can duplicate this win in a slam final, we'll have to file this into the (perhaps temporary) "boost of confidence" folder for now.

Regardless, 2011 should be an interesting year.

This wont happen in a slam final, they dont play
those indoors on courts like this. Fed is the best
indoors, rafa is not very good indoors+
nadal still took a set off him. I know you fed lovers
are dreaming that this match changed everything, but
you are dreaming.

Did you also notice that fed beat everyone he faced
very easily? Was that also because of some new change
in his game or mental state? Hell no it was where this
tourny. was played. Fed is at his best indoors period,
but you boys can keep dreaming whatever you want.

Eternally_damned · Dec 3, 2010

tlm said:
This wont happen in a slam final, they dont play
those indoors on courts like this. Fed is the best
indoors, rafa is not very good indoors+
nadal still took a set off him. I know you fed lovers
are dreaming that this match changed everything, but
you are dreaming.

Did you also notice that fed beat everyone he faced
very easily? Was that also because of some new change
in his game or mental state? Hell no it was where this
tourny. was played. Fed is at his best indoors period,
but you boys can keep dreaming whatever you want.

Then why didn't Fed win Paris?

tlm · Dec 3, 2010

Eternally_damned said:
Then why didn't Fed win Paris?

He tanked so he would be fresher for wtf.

Eternally_damned · Dec 3, 2010

tlm said:
He tanked so he would be fresher for wtf.

Now do you see why *********s are considered so stupid?

matchmaker · Dec 3, 2010

I agree with the OP, I think Rafa had only one game plan and that was pounding Fed's BH, but on an indoor court the bounce isn't that high and some of those balls just fall into Fed's striking zone.

I thought it was a very lacklustre performance from Nadal, even though he somehow managed to win a set. But obviously he should have been varying his game a lot more, that he did not do so is disappointing at the least or points to mental fatigue, none of which is an excuse to come up with such a onesided game plan. I am rather a Rafa fan BTW. But truth be said Roger fully deserved to win this one, it was clear from the start it was going to be that way and Nadal didn't try anything, except the same tactics he always uses. Good from Roger to force him to do something else.

Sentinel · Dec 3, 2010

Perhaps Uncle Toni was confused too.

tlm · Dec 3, 2010

Eternally_damned said:
Now do you see why *********s are considered so stupid?

No the *******s are the ones that are stupid. You clowns
really think that this indoor event has any bearing on
the real tournaments. Lets hear all your big talk next year
at the majors, you know where it really counts.They are
called majors for a reason.

rommil · Dec 3, 2010

tlm said:
No the *******s are the ones that are stupid. You clowns
really think that this indoor event has any bearing on
the real tournaments. Lets hear all your big talk next year
at the majors, you know where it really counts.They are
called majors for a reason.

You wouldn't happen to be talking about the events Roger won a tOtal 16 times?

msc886 · Dec 3, 2010

tlm said:
This wont happen in a slam final, they dont play
those indoors on courts like this. Fed is the best
indoors, rafa is not very good indoors+
nadal still took a set off him. I know you fed lovers
are dreaming that this match changed everything, but
you are dreaming.

Did you also notice that fed beat everyone he faced
very easily? Was that also because of some new change
in his game or mental state? Hell no it was where this
tourny. was played. Fed is at his best indoors period,
but you boys can keep dreaming whatever you want.

Did you see him play last year and the year before. He was nowhere near as good.

BreakPoint · Dec 4, 2010

tlm said:
This wont happen in a slam final, they dont play
those indoors on courts like this. Fed is the best
indoors, rafa is not very good indoors+
nadal still took a set off him. I know you fed lovers
are dreaming that this match changed everything, but
you are dreaming.

Did you also notice that fed beat everyone he faced
very easily? Was that also because of some new change
in his game or mental state? Hell no it was where this
tourny. was played. Fed is at his best indoors period,
but you boys can keep dreaming whatever you want.

Oh really? Then how the heck did Federer lose to Davydenko last year in the semis of this same tournament, on the same surface, at the same indoor venue, in the same location, whom Federer had NEVER lost to before in like a million matches?

BreakPoint · Dec 4, 2010

tlm said:
He tanked so he would be fresher for wtf.

Then why didn't he just lose in the 1st round and gotten even more rest? Why did he bother to go up 5 match points in the semis if he was trying his hardest to tank the match? As if one more match in the final would have made a big difference to his freshness. :???:

BreakPoint · Dec 4, 2010

tlm said:
No the *******s are the ones that are stupid. You clowns
really think that this indoor event has any bearing on
the real tournaments. Lets hear all your big talk next year
at the majors, you know where it really counts.They are
called majors for a reason.

You mean those things that Federer has made the semis of 23 consecutive times while Nadal has only made........um........4 consecutive times?

Sentinel · Dec 4, 2010

confused, who me ?

As the Brits would say, Nadal's flabber was gasted.

His ass was tounded by Roger's backhand.

tlm · Dec 4, 2010

I guess when fed only won 1 major this year this wtf is the only thing that his fans can brag about.

Live it up dreamers, because i know there are so few victories anymore from your hero.I guess this earth shattering wtf was one of your few highlights this year.

Beings he is getting beat by a lot of different players now in the majors.

FTS · Dec 4, 2010

yes cause winning ONE slam in a year is so pitiful ... that nadal did it four times already while Fed only did it three in a longer career

niff · Dec 4, 2010

tlm said:
I guess when fed only won 1 major this year this wtf is the only thing that his fans can brag about.

Live it up dreamers, because i know there are so few victories anymore from your hero.I guess this earth shattering wtf was one of your few highlights this year.

Beings he is getting beat by a lot of different players now in the majors.

Only 1 major, boohoooo

tlm · Dec 4, 2010

BreakPoint said:
You mean those things that Federer has made the semis of 23 consecutive times while Nadal has only made........um........4 consecutive times?

Ya but i am talking about this year, you know where
rafa dominated. You have to go back to past years
because your boy is on his way out.

Keep all of feds past accomplishments close to you
because you will need them more+more, as more
players keep taking him out.

Ledigs · Dec 4, 2010

Federer was playing exceptionally well while Nadal was not. That's the story. It happens. At least it wasn't at a slam.

Ledigs · Dec 4, 2010

I think the semi-final record is great but it doesn't really prove anything except Federer is a top player and that he doesn't get injured.

Sentinel · Dec 4, 2010

tlm said:
I guess when fed only won 1 major this year this wtf is the only thing that his fans can brag about.

Live it up dreamers, because i know there are so few victories anymore from your hero.I guess this earth shattering wtf was one of your few highlights this year.

Beings he is getting beat by a lot of different players now in the majors.

You guys needn't be bitter.

OddJack · Dec 4, 2010

Yeah, he looked confused,

Plus, since uncle toni was sitting in the dark he could not signal coaching or serve directions.

Sentinel · Dec 4, 2010

OddJack said:
Yeah, he looked confused,

Plus, since uncle toni was sitting in the dark he could not signal coaching or serve directions.

Please select which one of the following Nadal looked like:

A)

B)

niff · Dec 4, 2010

Sentinel said:
You guys needn't be bitter.

They are overdosing on smugness :evil:

FTS · Dec 4, 2010

At first he was like:

then he was like:

FTS · Dec 4, 2010

then he was like:

finally he was like:

Sentinel · Dec 4, 2010

^^ You fergat to show him biting the runners up trophy

FTS · Dec 4, 2010

too bad he doesn't bite runner up trophies, i guess they aren't as tasty

AM95 · Dec 4, 2010

meg0529 said:
Rafito ain't dumb. Even in his presser, he knew EXACTLY what Fed had changed, he didn't need time to sit down and re-watch the match, he knew. Fed had a plan and its execution was flawless, things were clicking, and Nadal was not in the mood to chase anything down. Rafa is ALWAYS working to improve, it's why he's come so far. Also, if you noticed, once Nadal saw what Fed was trying to do in the first set, in the second set he changed up his strategy a bit, gave him a break and he won it. At the end though Fed just played a perfect game and was too good.

Cute theory tho.

LOL?

are you forgettting the 30% first serves in the second set and virtually no aces.

get real. nadal was lost and he even said federer was unplayable in the first and third sets.

MichaelNadal · Dec 4, 2010

Man the trolling is STILL going on and the guy won a set when no one else did. This place is ridiculous. Wow, he lost... so fn what?

tlm · Dec 4, 2010

MichaelNadal said:
Man the trolling is STILL going on and the guy won a set when no one else did. This place is ridiculous. Wow, he lost... so fn what?

Amazing isnt it, it shows how hard up the fed lovers
are. They know their hero is falling so they have to
enjoy any victory they get.

MichaelNadal · Dec 4, 2010

tlm said:
Amazing isnt it, it shows how hard up the fed lovers
are. They know their hero is falling so they have to
enjoy any victory they get.

It's just Juvenile. Tennis is a revolving door and we have another year, different day, surface, matchups coming. If 2 guys step on court, one has to lose. We draw waaaay too many conclusions from losses sometimes.

Sentinel · Dec 4, 2010

tlm said:
Amazing isnt it, it shows how hard up the fed lovers
are. They know their hero is falling so they have to
enjoy any victory they get.

so stop starting these troll threads and then complaining.

And why is it so disturbing to you (or wrong) that we should enjoy Federer's last few wins ?

tlm · Dec 4, 2010

Sentinel said:
so stop starting these troll threads and then complaining.

And why is it so disturbing to you (or wrong) that we should enjoy Federer's last few wins ?

Enjoying his victory's is one thing, but being complete
jerks is another!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ttbrowne · Dec 4, 2010

Am I hearing that when Fed wins on a surface that might compliment his game it really doesn't mean anything til he beats Nadal on a surface that compliments HIS game?
Seems the door should swing both ways.

Sentinel · Dec 4, 2010

tlm said:
Enjoying his victory's is one thing, but being complete
jerks is another!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely true.

Serendipitous · Dec 4, 2010

Nadal wasn't tired or confused, he was unfit.

billnepill · Dec 4, 2010

backhand winners - check -no backhand UEs - checkmate

NamRanger · Dec 4, 2010

BreakPoint said:
Oh really? Then how the heck did Federer lose to Davydenko last year in the semis of this same tournament, on the same surface, at the same indoor venue, in the same location, whom Federer had NEVER lost to before in like a million matches?

Because Federer made one mistake in the 3rd set against Davydenko who was playing at his best on his best surface (statistically Davydenko dominates on indoors when he is on).

veroniquem · Dec 4, 2010

tlm said:
Amazing isnt it, it shows how hard up the fed lovers
are. They know their hero is falling so they have to
enjoy any victory they get.

while it lasts...
I could bump all the threads from 2007 after Fed's Hamburg victory. All Fed fans were deliriously overexcited about how it was not about Rafa being DOA but Fed miraculously discovering the right strategy, tactics, shots, approach etc, etc, that will work infallibly vs Rafa. We all saw the validity of that.
And we had the redux version with Soderling at RG 2009: all hail the new king of clay. Ha, just ha.
Keep hoping people, next time Fed plays Rafa, it will be humble pie time again, as usual (yawn).

Sentinel · Dec 5, 2010

Serendipitous said:
Nadal wasn't tired or confused, he was unfit.

thank god, you are still here.... send me an email.

Nadal wasn't tired or unfit, he was confused.

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