Federer and Sampras and losses in Big Matches

M

McEnroeisanartist

Hall of Fame
I thought it would be interesting to compare who Federer and Sampras lost to in big matches, defined as a Grand Slam final or semifinal.

Federer has lost 15 big matches. He has lost to 4 different players: Nadal (8), Djokovic (5), Safin, and Del Potro.

Sampras lost 9 big matches. He lost to 7 different players: Ivansevic, Edberg (2), Agassi (2), Kafelnikov, Rafter, Safin, and Hewitt.

Nadal has lost 8 big matches. He lost to 5 different players: Federer (2), Djokovic (3), Tsonga, Murray, and Del Potro.

Borg lost 6 big matches. He lost to 2 different players: Connors (3), McEnroe (3)
 
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V

Vrad

Professional
It shows Sampras' absolute inability to do anything on clay.

Pretty much every "Sampras is superior" claim (H2H against biggest opponent, "not lost as many big matches") evaporates if Federer had never made it past a FO semi-final like Sampras.

IOW, according to Samprastards, if Federer sucked at clay, he would have been a much better player.
 
M

McEnroeisanartist

Hall of Fame
Yes, my point is obviously how few guys have beat Federer in a big match. It is amazing that Sampras had losses to so many players in big matches.

We shall see in roughly 12 hours or so if Murray will be added to Federer's list. I hope not.
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
McEnroeisanartist said:
Yes, my point is obviously how few guys have beat Federer in a big match. It is amazing that Sampras had losses to so many players in big matches.

We shall see in roughly 12 hours or so if Murray will be added to Federer's list. I hope not.
Click to expand...

Borg is the best from this perspective - only ever lost against Mac or Connors.
 
Devilito

Devilito

Hall of Fame
Vrad said:
It shows Sampras' absolute inability to do anything on clay.

Pretty much every "Sampras is superior" claim (H2H against biggest opponent, "not lost as many big matches") evaporates if Federer had never made it past a FO semi-final like Sampras.

IOW, according to Samprastards, if Federer sucked at clay, he would have been a much better player.
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You can’t compare surface, style and depth of field dynamics in the 90s with what’s going on now. Tennis as a sport changes far too often in terms of equipment, surfaces and importance of certain tournaments to be able to compare players from different generations. The importance of the Australian Open and the focus on “slam count” wasn’t even a factor in tennis until the mid 90s. But if you knew anything about tennis, you’d already know that right?
 
Towser83

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
McEnroeisanartist said:
I thought it would be interesting to compare who Federer and Sampras lost to in big matches, defined as a Grand Slam final or semifinal.

Federer has lost 15 big matches. He has lost to 4 different players: Nadal (8), Djokovic (5), Safin, and Del Potro.

Sampras lost 9 big matches. He lost to 7 different players: Ivansevic, Edberg (2), Agassi (2), Kafelnikov, Rafter, Safin, and Hewitt.

Nadal has lost 8 big matches. He lost to 4 different players: Federer (2), Djokovic (3), Tsonga, and Del Potro.

Borg lost 6 big matches. He lost to 2 different players: Connors (3), McEnroe (3)
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Nadal also lost to Murray in a US open semi.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
heninfan99 said:
Slam champions nonetheless.
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Oh sure. It was a bit of a joke. Sampras obviously doesn't "suck".

In regards to Borg, as great as he was, you have to feel like he would've lost more "big" matches had he not basically retired at 26. He was awesome. I just thought I'd point that out.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Devilito said:
You can’t compare surface, style and depth of field dynamics in the 90s with what’s going on now. Tennis as a sport changes far too often in terms of equipment, surfaces and importance of certain tournaments to be able to compare players from different generations. The importance of the Australian Open and the focus on “slam count” wasn’t even a factor in tennis until the mid 90s. But if you knew anything about tennis, you’d already know that right?
Click to expand...

Oh please. Stop making excuses for Petros.
 
Devilito

Devilito

Hall of Fame
Steve0904 said:
Oh please. Stop making excuses for Petros.
Click to expand...

As the best player to ever pick up a tennis racquet, Petros doesn’t need to be excused for anything. On indoor carpet, Prime Petros would roll Djokovic, Nadal and Murray like they were 3.0 ntrp tennis warehouse posters.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Devilito said:
As the best player to ever pick up a tennis racquet, Petros doesn’t need to be excused for anything. On indoor carpet, Prime Petros would roll Djokovic, Nadal and Murray like they were 3.0 ntrp tennis warehouse posters.
Click to expand...

I've noticed you've left out a better player than Petros. Why is that?
 
P

Prisoner of Birth

Banned
Devilito said:
As the best player to ever pick up a tennis racquet, Petros doesn’t need to be excused for anything. On indoor carpet, Prime Petros would roll Djokovic, Nadal and Murray like they were 3.0 ntrp tennis warehouse posters.
Click to expand...

Petros's record at Roland Garros in his last six appearances there:
5 wins
6 losses

:lol:
 
F

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
Devilito said:
As the best player to ever pick up a tennis racquet, Petros doesn’t need to be excused for anything. On indoor carpet, Prime Petros would roll Djokovic, Nadal and Murray like they were 3.0 ntrp tennis warehouse posters.
Click to expand...

like he did to wayne Ferreira in 1995?
 
90's Clay

90's Clay

Banned
Fed struggled with 36 year old Sampras indoors in 2007 for about 3 of the 4 exos. Pete's serve was really cooking and Fed could barely get any rally or ROS going.

Prime Sampras THUMPS Prime Fed indoors. Especially carpet (a bit like the speed of Macau when Pete took Fed out in straights in 2007). Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.

Fed's main indoor competition were pushers. Pete's main competition indoors were aggressive players like Andre, and an indoor GOAT Becker
 
President

President

Legend
90's Clay said:
Fed struggled with 36 year old Sampras indoors in 2007 for about 3 of the 4 exos. Pete's serve was really cooking and Fed could barely get any rally or ROS going.

Prime Sampras THUMPS Prime Fed indoors. Especially carpet (a bit like the speed of Macau when Pete took Fed out in straights in 2007). Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.
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How the hell are you going to seriously use exho results?! Roddick owned Federer in the Kooyong exho before AO 2007 and what happened? Hell Tomic beat Djokovic handily in the same exho this year...
 
P

Prisoner of Birth

Banned
90's Clay said:
Fed struggled with 36 year old Sampras indoors in 2007 for about 3 of the 4 exos. Pete's serve was really cooking and Fed could barely get any rally or ROS going.

Prime Sampras THUMPS Prime Fed indoors. Especially carpet (a bit like the speed of Macau when Pete took Fed out in straights in 2007). Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.
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It was an exhibition, nobody gives a 100% in those. Not Federer, anyway, who was coming off a long season and had already beat Sampras in two exhos. The only match that matters is Wimbledon 2001, played on Sampras's very best surface and court, which Federer won as a teenager.
 
N

NadalDramaQueen

Guest
President said:
How the hell are you going to seriously use exho results?! Roddick owned Federer in the Kooyong exho before AO 2007 and what happened? Hell Tomic beat Djokovic handily in the same exho this year...
Click to expand...

90's Turd will reach for anything. I feel sorry for him.
 
heninfan99

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
I think the OP proves we all suffer from confirmation bias. You can see those stats as pro-Fed or Borg cause they only lost to a few guys or you can just as easily see it as pro-Sampras because of all the great slam champions he had battle on a weekly basis. You see what you want to see.
 
Cup8489

Cup8489

G.O.A.T.
LOL at 90's **** pulling out the exo's as examples. LOLOLOLOLOL. I guess Roddick would roll over Federer on hardcourts based on 2007 Kooyong. OH WAIT. LOLOLOL.
 
90's Clay

90's Clay

Banned
Sampras also had to deal with indoor GOATS like Becker.. Fed only had to deal with indoor garbage or average indoor players like Nadal, Berdych, Tsonga, Murray etc. A LAUGHABLE indoor field

Pete would whipe those guys off the court at his peak and barely break a sweat.. Ace bombs all day and net aggression..
 
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F

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
90's Clay said:
Sampras also had to deal with indoor GOATS like Becker.. Fed only had to deal with indoor garbage or average indoor players like Nadal, Berdych, Tsonga, Murray etc. A LAUGHABLE indoor field

Pete would whipe those guys off the court at his peak and barely break a sweat.. Ace bombs all day and net aggression..
Click to expand...

how did he do against an indoor mug like Ferreira?
 
tennis_pro

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
90's Clay said:
Fed struggled with 36 year old Sampras indoors in 2007 for about 3 of the 4 exos. Pete's serve was really cooking and Fed could barely get any rally or ROS going.

Prime Sampras THUMPS Prime Fed indoors. Especially carpet (a bit like the speed of Macau when Pete took Fed out in straights in 2007). Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.

Fed's main indoor competition were pushers. Pete's main competition indoors were aggressive players like Andre, and an indoor GOAT Becker
Click to expand...

Sampras doesn't thump Federer anywhere and stop using exos in which Federer played like an amateur only to make Sampras look good instead of humiliating him in front of a packed crowd.
 
THE FIGHTER

THE FIGHTER

Hall of Fame
90's Clay said:
Sampras also had to deal with indoor GOATS like Becker.. Fed only had to deal with indoor garbage or average indoor players like Nadal, Berdych, Tsonga, Murray etc. A LAUGHABLE indoor field

Pete would whipe those guys off the court at his peak and barely break a sweat.. Ace bombs all day and net aggression..
Click to expand...

good points. sampras would get the best of federer in his prime on every surface except maybe clay. while nadal is a force on every surface, indoor carpet forced him to play badly. and that's saying something considering rafa was federer's biggest rival.

#18to9
 
Cup8489

Cup8489

G.O.A.T.
90's Clay said:
Are you seriously comparing Roddick to Sampras? ROFLMAO
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Well, you were seriously using 4 exos as an example of Pete aparently PWNING federer indoors, even though INCLUDING those exos the H2h is 4-1 Federer LOL.

Including 3-1 indoors.

So basically, it's like saying that even though Federer is 2-10 or whatever vs. Rafa on clay, He'd totally PWN rafa on clay, because he won two matches. And yes, that's what you're basically saying. Your argument is completely and utterly nonsensical.
 
Devilito

Devilito

Hall of Fame
petros.jpg
 
N

NadalDramaQueen

Guest
Devilito said:
petros.jpg
Click to expand...

More like, "Hi guys, I talked an ATP pro into playing a "friendly" exhibition match which I then took way too seriously and did anything and everything possible to get the win against a guy who was playing me like I was a 4.5. My bad!"

"Oh yeah, I then went and got schooled by McEnroe in a Champion's League match. Whoops."
 
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90's Clay

90's Clay

Banned
Cup8489 said:
Well, you were seriously using 4 exos as an example of Pete aparently PWNING federer indoors, even though INCLUDING those exos the H2h is 4-1 Federer LOL.

Including 3-1 indoors.

So basically, it's like saying that even though Federer is 2-10 or whatever vs. Rafa on clay, He'd totally PWN rafa on clay, because he won two matches. And yes, that's what you're basically saying. Your argument is completely and utterly nonsensical.
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Pete was in position to win THREE of those exos mind you (And winning in Macauc) despite being 5 years retired and Fed at the peak of his career level wise.

Go back and watch those exos.. Most of the matches WERE very competitive. You can't tell me they were just out there hitting around.

Just because there is "exhibition" in the title doesn't mean two players dont try.. Especially when its two GOAT candidates and one is out there serving bombs and playing tough and the other trying not to get embarrassed by a the former top great of the previous era

Those exos were played at much higher level then the exos we see between two current guys just looking to make an extra buck

Doesn't happen
 
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T

tennis_badger

Rookie
90's Clay said:
Pete was in position to win THREE of those exos mind you (And winning in Macauc) despite being 5 years retired and Fed at the peak of his career level wise.

Go back and watch those exos.. Most of the matches WERE very competitive. You can't tell me they were just out there hitting around.

Just because there is "exhibition" in the title doesn't mean two players dont try.. Especially when its two GOAT candidates and one is out there serving bombs and playing tough and the other trying not to get embarrassed by a the former top great of the previous era

Those exos were played at much higher level then the exos we see between two current guys just looking to make an extra buck

Doesn't happen
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lol, desperate much? lololololol

90's Clay said:
Just because there is "exhibition" in the title doesn't mean two players dont try..
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on second thought...you're right, they did try very hard...pete tried very hard to beat fed and fed tried very hard not to embarass pete in front of everyone by giving him easy put-aways, lol
 
Devilito

Devilito

Hall of Fame
NadalDramaQueen said:
"Oh yeah, I then went and got schooled by McEnroe in a Champion's League match. Whoops."
Click to expand...

this is the last match they played last year. An actual best 2 of 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL-U64APs-E

Petros looked half asleep and owned Mac. So IDK what you're talking about some stupid Pro-set thing they did for laughs which Mac might have won. Big deal. They're retired and play for fun amongst each other and Pete isnt going to try hard against a 50+ year old retired player. If you actually watch the match against Fish, Fish tried and Petros was just too much for him. If you actually watch the matches and dont just post stupid results you can't judge for yourself. If you actually think that if it were life or death Petros would ever lose to Mac now you're on some serious McCrack
 
N

NadalDramaQueen

Guest
Devilito said:
this is the last match they played last year. An actual best 2 of 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL-U64APs-E

Petros looked half asleep and owned Mac. So IDK what you're talking about some stupid Pro-set thing they did for laughs which Mac might have won. Big deal. They're retired and play for fun amongst each other and Pete isnt going to try hard against a 50+ year old retired player. If you actually watch the match against Fish, Fish tried and Petros was just too much for him. If you actually watch the matches and dont just post stupid results you can't judge for yourself. If you actually think that if it were life or death Petros would ever lose to Mac now you're on some serious McCrack
Click to expand...

The funny thing is that I do watch the matches. I'm not posting what I thought of the matches, only making fun of you trying desperately to hype Pete. Take some time and let you blood pressure return to normal, mate.
 
Devilito

Devilito

Hall of Fame
tennis_badger said:
lol, desperate much? lololololol

on second thought...you're right, they did try very hard...pete tried very hard to beat fed and fed tried very hard not to embarass pete in front of everyone by giving him easy put-aways, lol
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When Petros hits a 130 down the T for an Ace then Fed isn't trying. When an ATP scrub aces Fed hitting a 115 well placed then Fed is trying. When Petros hits a 95mph forehand slapshot winner down the line, Fed isn't trying. When some scrub on tour hits a lesser winner on Fed then Fed is trying? Just because it's an Exo doesn't mean those shots wouldnt have been just as effective on tour. The only problem is you have to actually watch those matches and know something about tennis so you can judge for yourself on the quality of the matches. The exos were good quality. They weren’t intense like a Nadal / Djokovic slam final. They were relaxed and fun but when Fed loaded up on a forehand or Petros cocked a serve it’s not like they were subconsciously trying to not “hit as hard”. I’ve seen Fed play WAY worse in some random tour matches than he did against Petros in those exos.
 
akv89

akv89

Hall of Fame
The exhos between Federer and Sampras are easily available on youtube. It was very apparent that Federer was taking it easy. He was looping his forehands in and kicking in most of his serves. If anyone thinks that this was a serious contest (at least on Federer's part), they're kidding themselves. The only time when I saw him really lock down on his game for an extended period of time was during the MSG game when he was down 2 breaks in the third set before coming back to win the match.
 
T

tennis_badger

Rookie
Devilito said:
When Petros hits a 130 down the T for an Ace then Fed isn't trying. When an ATP scrub aces Fed hitting a 115 well placed then Fed is trying. When Petros hits a 95mph forehand slapshot winner down the line, Fed isn't trying. When some scrub on tour hits a lesser winner on Fed then Fed is trying?.
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yes.i did watch the exo and fed was feeding pete.
thing is, there's no reason for fed to chase the balls. if he's not careful he might injured himself for no good reason.

when i play a set with my ex-hitting partner (a former pro, touring in futures, never make it big, quit early to coach, apparently he got more money that way), i can get 3-4 games. but one time i said to him, "why dont you play as if you're in an actual tournament?". sure enough i didnt even get a single point in 2 game (his serve and my serve)
 
90's Clay

90's Clay

Banned
Devilito said:
this is the last match they played last year. An actual best 2 of 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL-U64APs-E

Petros looked half asleep and owned Mac. So IDK what you're talking about some stupid Pro-set thing they did for laughs which Mac might have won. Big deal. They're retired and play for fun amongst each other and Pete isnt going to try hard against a 50+ year old retired player. If you actually watch the match against Fish, Fish tried and Petros was just too much for him. If you actually watch the matches and dont just post stupid results you can't judge for yourself. If you actually think that if it were life or death Petros would ever lose to Mac now you're on some serious McCrack
Click to expand...


Pete didn't even look into the match.. And yet he just toyed with McEnroe like he was a nobody
 
Devilito

Devilito

Hall of Fame
90's Clay said:
Pete didn't even look into the match.. And yet he just toyed with McEnroe like he was a nobody
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kinda felt bad for Mac. I think i saw Pistol yawn a few times after hitting a few forehand winners. He let Mac hold serve a few times just to seem like it was competitive. Obviously the tour is a major grind an no retired player could come back and play such a punishing schedule match after match. But back when Petros played Fed in those exos he'd give anyone outside the top 4 seriously trouble in a non tournament single match situation.
 
Cup8489

Cup8489

G.O.A.T.
90's Clay said:
Pete was in position to win THREE of those exos mind you (And winning in Macauc) despite being 5 years retired and Fed at the peak of his career level wise.

Go back and watch those exos.. Most of the matches WERE very competitive. You can't tell me they were just out there hitting around.

Just because there is "exhibition" in the title doesn't mean two players dont try.. Especially when its two GOAT candidates and one is out there serving bombs and playing tough and the other trying not to get embarrassed by a the former top great of the previous era

Those exos were played at much higher level then the exos we see between two current guys just looking to make an extra buck

Doesn't happen
Click to expand...

You are absolutely hilarious. I am thoroughly enjoying your nostalgia and wine-fueled rants about your god... but rewatch this match. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K29_Hi3kPWM

Watch how easily Federer CAN get the serve back below sampras' knees. The first point in particular i want you to look at. Federer ALWAYS makes his opponents play their volleys. And he hits the tape? No, Not prime Federer. Not from a blocked reflex volley right down the center of the court.

Just watch this: Lopez was on FIRE in this match, and Federer made him hit sooo many volleys. At higher speeds, angles and pace than the Sampras match. Come ON man, you don't really think that Sampras could BEAT PRIME FEDERER, being 37 himself? DO YOU?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfWRmlarBks

If you do, you should see a psychiatrist for your delusions.
 
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