Greatest GOATs
- Thread starter smoledman
- Start date
FedererDropShot
Hall of Fame
So utter domination means you lose to a guy ranked 100 in the 2nd round of Wimbledon in your 'prime' (having won the French Open)?
Cool.
Nadal - not GOAT of tennis
Nadal can't be GOAT since he is only dominated (won at least 4 or 5 times) only 1 out of the top five events (4 Slams + WTF). Sampras dominated 3 out of 5 and Federer 4 out of 5. Nadal is clearly the clay GOAT of tennis. But overall, he is only at the lower end of the discussion. He is definitely top five in the Open era - but clearly Federer, Sampras and Borg are ahead of him - and that is just the Open era (people who say -Borg didn't win a Hard court slam are forgetting he only ever entered in 4 Hard court slam events and got to the final of 3 of them! Nadal played at least 7 US Opens before he won a US Open. The AO wasn't on Hard in Borg's day and he only played it once when he was 17 years old)
Nadal can't be GOAT since he is only dominated (won at least 4 or 5 times) only 1 out of the top five events (4 Slams + WTF). Sampras dominated 3 out of 5 and Federer 4 out of 5. Nadal is clearly the clay GOAT of tennis. But overall, he is only at the lower end of the discussion. He is definitely top five in the Open era - but clearly Federer, Sampras and Borg are ahead of him - and that is just the Open era (people who say -Borg didn't win a Hard court slam are forgetting he only ever entered in 4 Hard court slam events and got to the final of 3 of them! Nadal played at least 7 US Opens before he won a US Open. The AO wasn't on Hard in Borg's day and he only played it once when he was 17 years old)
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Basketball there is no argument. Golf - Jack Nicklaus as of now, maybe tiger has it. NFL - Joe Montana what are you even thinking! Jim Brown is not even top 5. Tennis - you be trolling, as of now its Federer. Until you beat 17 you cannot be considered the greatest.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Spurious comparison here... If you make a tennis-like comparison - taking their careers where they cross over and ignore their first 2 and last 2 years (their non-primes) then Schumacher only outperformed Mika Hakkinen 3 world championships to 2.
Nadal is the most dominant #2 player of all time. But not #1. That will belong to the Djokovic! Just kidding.
i didnt knew that nadal 11 slams > federer 17 slams
TennisLovaLova
Hall of Fame
corrected 4 you
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Most of those you mention are not GOATs of their sport;
Tennis - Federer
Golf - Nicklaus
Auto Racing (F1) - maybe Schumacher, but also Fangio/Senna in contention
I don't know enough about NFL to comment.
The only undisputed GOAT you mention is Jordan.
moonballs
Hall of Fame
I am sure there are quite a few Detroit pistons stars who enjoy a leading h2h against Michael Jordan.
mightyrick
Legend
Golf has no such thing as head-to-head. Although, I think it's easy to argue that Woods is the greatest golfer ever. 142 consecutive tourney cuts made. He'll pass Nicklaus for tourney wins soon enough. The guy is only 37 and in top physical condition.
Jordan definitely best ever basketball player.
Auto Racing... I have no clue.
NFL... no way it is Jim Brown. I don't agree that it's Montana anymore. At this point, I'd have to give it to Drew Brees.
Tennis... I've consistently said it is Rod Laver. But I think the presence of a negative H2H is a dumb criteria.
forzamilan90
Legend
It wasn't till Jordan got a better team and Bird and Magic declined that he started winning a lot
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
LOL seriously, Brees? He's not even close to being the best of his generation (behind Brady, both Mannings, and maybe even Rodgers).
mightyrick
Legend
It isn't an American football forum, so I won't get into it. But let's just say that number of championships aren't necessarily the only determining factor for defining the greatest quarterback.
Nah...it's Jerry Rice. Brees is way down the list.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
I never said it was.
Brees is the greatest quarterback... at padding his stats in garbage time.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
A few notes:
Nadal did not win the Grand Slam. For that reason, he's not the greatest of his sport. Sorry.
Woods is not on Nicklaus' level.
BTW, Jim Brown's status is up in the air.
The OP as we all know is a die-hard Nadal fan so pick him on purposely but we all know it's Federer. Until Tiger catches Nicklaus in major count, it's still Nicklaus. NBA is Jordan and NFL is Jerry Rice, that's the consensus. I'm not into racing so no comment.
TennisLovaLova
Hall of Fame
Nonsense my dear friend.
Jordan helped his team get better, end of story.
The starting line up of the bulls in 91 was: mj, pippen, cartwright, paxson and grant. I think only grant made it to the all star game in 95 maybe... Not sure. was that a better team? The team was even better before they traded oakley to the knicks...
After doug collins left and phil jackson came, the spirit changed.
And it's the triangle offense that made the bulls the team it was at the time.
Maybe Bird was declining but in 91 the lakers led by magic defeated the favorites blazers with drexler, porter and robinson. And the bulls lost the 1st game of the finals at home, where magic and worthy played superb basketball.
Also, mj had to face the knicks (ewing, mcdaniel, starks, oakley), the pistons, the cavs (price,nance, dougherty).
The eastern conference was hardcore in the nineties.
And after 91, just check the level of the bulls opponents in the finals: blazers, suns (mvp barkley, kj, majerle), sonics (kemp, payton) and the jazz.
And in the east the bulls faced the heat (mourning, hardaway), the pacers (jackson, miller)...
The opposition even after bird and magic's retirement was still very strong.
Maybe the second generation of bulls with rodman, harper and kukoc was stronger. But it is not proven fact.
Disagree on the bolded part.
Magic/Bird dynasty are from the 80s and Jordan is from the 90s, a separation between the two. While the Lakers/Celtics played through the early 90s, they were a shadow of themselves at that time, because of ages, milage, and injuries. Bird was hammered with injuries especially the bad back which eventually force him to reitred. The Lakers fare better than the Celtics, but still it's a deteriorating old team. And Divac is no Kareem. Beating the Blazers in 91 doesn't mean the Lakers were at the same level in the 80s. Remember when the Lakers lost to the Bulls 4-1 in the final was when Worthy and Scott was injured after the 1st game. The Bulls were young and more hungry. It doesn't mean the Lakers would have won had they were healthy, but the series would have more competitive.
With that being said, I still believe MJ is better than Magic/Bird.
M
monfed
Guest
How the heck is a one trick pony a GOAT contender? Sheesh.
He's trolling. It's no difference from NadalAgassi said Serena is the goat.
TennisLovaLova
Hall of Fame
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