Umpire not supposed to????

Virginia · Feb 3, 2014

When Wawrinka asked the umpire why Nadal had disappeared off the court, he said:

"I don't know".

Stan said "ASK"

Umpire said "I'm not supposed to."

What's all that about??? How can an umpire not know why a player is disappearing from the court? Can a player go off court just because he feels like it?

This does not make any sense to me.

Annie · Feb 3, 2014

Discussion with Toni and we all witnessed Ralph's acting abilities.

woodrow1029 · Feb 3, 2014

Seriously, Virginia? Another thread on this?

Virginia · Feb 3, 2014

I know, I know, but this question has never been answered. Please throw some light on this, woodrow.

Was umpire being entirely truthful, in saying he was not supposed to ask?

NADALRECORD · Feb 3, 2014

If the umpire asks then it interrupts the treatment, because somebody would have to ask the trainer which means the trainer may stop doing the treatment for a few seconds. Plus it won't make any difference if the umpire finds out what the specific ailment is. All it would do is fulfill Wawrinka's curiosity. And in case you don't already know, Wawrinka's curiosity counts for nothing. All Wawrinka had to do was wait for Nadal to return and then he could choke away the 3rd set.

tennis_pro · Feb 3, 2014

The problem here is not the umpire not telling Wawrinka why Nadal left but not asking Nadal where he was going.

So Nadal just decided to leave so he left. No questions asked.

murrfan1 · Feb 3, 2014

Medical info is private; it's between the trainer and the player being treated.

NADALRECORD · Feb 3, 2014

tennis_pro said:
The problem here is not the umpire not telling Wawrinka why Nadal left but not asking Nadal where he was going.

So Nadal just decided to leave so he left. No questions asked.

But an official goes with Nadal and the trainer into the side-room in the tunnel. What point is there for everyone to be informed of what the injury is? The official observes and sees that Nadal is not being coached. That is all that is required.

Backbored · Feb 3, 2014

This may help.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=489854

woodrow1029 · Feb 3, 2014

Virginia said:
I know, I know, but this question has never been answered. Please throw some light on this, woodrow.

Was umpire being entirely truthful, in saying he was not supposed to ask?

Yes! The supervisor was back there to make sure the MTO was within the rules. Stan is not entitled to know what the injury is.

dominikk1985 · Feb 3, 2014

Virginia said:
When Wawrinka asked the umpire why Nadal had disappeared off the court, he said:

"I don't know".

Stan said "ASK"

Umpire said "I'm not supposed to."

What's all that about??? How can an umpire not know why a player is disappearing from the court? Can a player go off court just because he feels like it?

This does not make any sense to me.

there is medical confidentiality. the time out can only be for injury purpose but the doc should not talk about it. I can understand stan but he has no business knowing about his opponents medical issues.

Virginia · Feb 3, 2014

woodrow1029 said:
Yes! The supervisor was back there to make sure the MTO was within the rules. Stan is not entitled to know what the injury is.

That was not my question. I know Stan is not entitled to know. But surely the umpire is. I am querying what the umpire said to Stan, when he (Stan) told him to ask and he replied "I'm not supposed to".

Are you seriously suggesting that the umpire is not supposed to ask what the trouble is? Can the player just disappear off the court, without any explanation. That is the question that I don't believe has been answered properly, by you or anyone.

Backspin1183 · Feb 3, 2014

Virginia said:
That was not my question. I know Stan is not entitled to know. But surely the umpire is. I am querying what the umpire said to Stan, when he (Stan) told him to ask and he replied "I'm not supposed to".

Are you seriously suggesting that the umpire is not supposed to ask what the trouble is? Can the player just disappear off the court, without any explanation. That is the question that I don't believe has been answered properly, by you or anyone.

I thought he meant he wasn't supposed to tell Stan the nature of injury.

XVIII · Feb 3, 2014

Stan inquired into the nature of the injury because he thought it was bs - and so did I when I watched it. That's not to defend Stan, just to say I understand his suspicion.
From what I recall Nadal hits a forehand into the net, grabs his back and stretches/winces. They play one more point and Nadal is running around on court without problems. Then he takes an mto and comes back hobbled.
I still don't believe he was fully injured but I won't speculate on his reasons for exaggerating the injury now.

woodrow1029 · Feb 3, 2014

Virginia said:
That was not my question. I know Stan is not entitled to know. But surely the umpire is. I am querying what the umpire said to Stan, when he (Stan) told him to ask and he replied "I'm not supposed to".

Are you seriously suggesting that the umpire is not supposed to ask what the trouble is? Can the player just disappear off the court, without any explanation. That is the question that I don't believe has been answered properly, by you or anyone.

That is why the supervisor is off court with the medical timeout.

Amphor · Feb 3, 2014

I believe the umpire is not supposed to know it either.
i believe the answer was aforementioned "I'm not supposed to [break MTO by asking]"

Virginia · Feb 3, 2014

Well, it seems to me that Nadal took matters into his own hands and decided he'd have his back checked off court, with the deliberate intention of unsettling Wawrinka and hoping to buy some time so that he could regroup. It almost worked too, but fortunately Wawrinka pulled himself together in time to find his game again and win the match.

As has been pointed out already and confirmed by the very knowledgable Australian commentators on our sky tv network, including Fred Stolle (grand slam champion for those who don't know), back injuries are normally treated on court. These commentators thought the whole business was very strange, unheard of in a grand slam final.

I wouldn't mind betting that if it was Wawrinka who had the injury, instead of Nadal, the whole issue would have been handled differently.

Deleted member 503267 · Feb 3, 2014

It is not fair to get the advantage of a MTO and the other player not knowing why. Tennis and the code are built around fair play.

Bobby Jr · Feb 3, 2014

In this instance I don't really see what the problem would be in the umpire telling him. I have seen, on many occasions, the umpire letting the opponent know what is happening - if only out of courtesy.

Besides that, it was hardly difficult to work out the general issue Nadal was having. I'm surprised Wawrinka couldn't spot the crux of the issue simply by looking at Nadal and wonder if his dialogue with the umpire wasn't more an indication of his annoyance at Nadal's very predictable timing (right after Wawrinka broke serve).

Virginia · Feb 3, 2014

Perhaps Wawrinka was thinking something along the lines of "Well, I can see he clutched the small of his back, indicating some pain, but why isn't that being treated on the court? Is there some other reason he has left the court?"

On the whole, umpires seem afraid almost to challenge Nadal - they are reluctant to give slow play warnings and fail to follow through with first serve penalties after a warning has been given. Why do they give him special treatment?

3fees · Feb 3, 2014

Nadal is a vip on the atp tour,,thats the reason.

Virginia · Feb 3, 2014

He (or any other top ten players) should not be treated any differently from the rest. They are all bound by the ATP or ITF or tennis rules. No exception.

bullfan · Feb 3, 2014

Virginia said:
Perhaps Wawrinka was thinking something along the lines of "Well, I can see he clutched the small of his back, indicating some pain, but why isn't that being treated on the court? Is there some other reason he has left the court?"

On the whole, umpires seem afraid almost to challenge Nadal - they are reluctant to give slow play warnings and fail to follow through with first serve penalties after a warning has been given. Why do they give him special treatment?

Funny, how you are attributing thoughts of fear towards the ump, and ignoring the fact that Wawrinka wasn't entitled to know why Nadal was off getting a MTO.

Backbored · Feb 3, 2014

Virginia said:
He (or any other top ten players) should not be treated any differently from the rest. They are all bound by the ATP or ITF or tennis rules. No exception.

When did this happen?

Virginia · Feb 3, 2014

I was responding to 3fees (post #21 above). Nadal is given much more leeway regarding time violations than any other player. Umpires are afraid, it seems, to enforce this rule.

Virginia · Feb 3, 2014

On a side note, I was disgusted when Nadal and his uncle insulted Eva Asderaki by (1) referring to her as "some girl" and then (2) implying she knew nothing about tennis. Eva is good enough to be employed at slams, so that says a lot.

bullfan · Feb 3, 2014

Virginia said:
I was responding to 3fees (post #21 above). Nadal is given much more leeway regarding time violations than any other player. Umpires are afraid, it seems, to enforce this rule.

You are all over the place here trying to insult Nadal. The original question has morphed for you because Wawrinka was incorrect in demanding answers. Those answers weren't required to be provided to either Wawa or to the Ump.

Sadly, you've brought up fear and a third ump issue that had nothing to do with the original post because Nadal was within the rules, and the Ump properly told Wawa to drop his demands for Nadals MTO.

SwankPeRFection · Feb 3, 2014

MTOs for Nadal = Must Take Oral Steroids.

I thought this was common knowledge by now. Fact is, high figure pros get special treatment and the rules aren't followed to a T with them. The rich get away with **** and the poor do not. Same thing on the pro court my friend, like it or not. It's only when people make a big deal out of it that it seems it finally gets addressed.

How many years did Nadal play with tic time delays before it became a public outcry in the press and then Nadal did his two towel BS drama play he's currently doing now? How much delay and toweling off and tics did he do during the Stan match? Oh, that right, not that much... When he's losing, all of a sudden the tactics take a back seat for some reason. Gimme a break! I have ZERO respect for this guy. He may be a nice person in life off the court, but his uncle has ruined his persona by teaching him to pull this **** to win. This is how he wins. MindJob Nadal...

Virginia · Feb 3, 2014

SwankPeRFection said:
When he's losing, all of a sudden the tactics take a back seat for some reason.

Yes, that was curious - at the time I thought he was in shock and had just stopped trying. But there may be a deeper psychological reason for that. Anyway I think he'd make an interesting psychological study.

By the way, if you watch this clip from 2005, you'll note that he was displaying virtually none of his current pre service routines. These have gradually been increasing over the years. In that match he looked relaxed, nowadays he looks anxious a lot of the time.

bullfan · Feb 3, 2014

Virginia said:
Yes, that was curious - at the time I thought he was in shock and had just stopped trying. But there may be a deeper psychological reason for that. Anyway I think he'd make an interesting psychological study.

By the way, if you watch this clip from 2005, you'll note that he was displaying virtually none of his current pre service routines. These have gradually been increasing over the years. In that match he looked relaxed, nowadays he looks anxious a lot of the time.

It's amazing how obsessive Fed fans are regarding Nadal, and are so sure they have an insight Nadal fans don't!

Just cracks me up!

Just like the denial of Fed fans in regards to Nadal just being a bad match up, as opposed to Fed not changing up his game to beat Nadal.

Overdrive · Feb 4, 2014

bullfan said:
It's amazing how obsessive Fed fans are regarding Nadal, and are so sure they have an insight Nadal fans don't!

Just cracks me up!

Just like the denial of Fed fans in regards to Nadal just being a bad match up, as opposed to Fed not changing up his game to beat Nadal.

Bullfan, you crack me up as well... :lol:

volleygirl · Feb 4, 2014

Tennis' rules for injuries is a joke. Its embarassing to see these players continually abuse the rule. The way Azarenka did it last year shouldve made it obvious to make changes to them.

Crisstti · Feb 4, 2014

Seriously, why do people keep on talking when Woodrow already gave the answer here?:

woodrow1029 said:
Yes! The supervisor was back there to make sure the MTO was within the rules. Stan is not entitled to know what the injury is.

Crisstti · Feb 4, 2014

tennis_pro said:
The problem here is not the umpire not telling Wawrinka why Nadal left but not asking Nadal where he was going.

So Nadal just decided to leave so he left. No questions asked.

Uhm, Nadal left with the trainer, it's obvious where he was going.

XVIII said:
Stan inquired into the nature of the injury because he thought it was bs - and so did I when I watched it. That's not to defend Stan, just to say I understand his suspicion.
From what I recall Nadal hits a forehand into the net, grabs his back and stretches/winces. They play one more point and Nadal is running around on court without problems. Then he takes an mto and comes back hobbled.
I still don't believe he was fully injured but I won't speculate on his reasons for exaggerating the injury now.

Stan acted like an idiot. One just has to see the kind of posters who support his attitude...

Crisstti · Feb 4, 2014

Virginia said:
He (or any other top ten players) should not be treated any differently from the rest. They are all bound by the ATP or ITF or tennis rules. No exception.

He is not treated differently

TheTruth · Feb 4, 2014

bullfan said:
Funny, how you are attributing thoughts of fear towards the ump, and ignoring the fact that Wawrinka wasn't entitled to know why Nadal was off getting a MTO.

Bottom line, and if anyone knows that it's Wawrinka. I don't understand why he was throwing a tantrum. Seemed odd to me at the time, and even more suspicious now.

TheTruth · Feb 4, 2014

Crisstti said:
Uhm, Nadal left with the trainer, it's obvious where he was going.

Stan acted like an idiot. One just has to see the kind of posters who support his attitude...

Still trying to find reasons to find fault with Nadal no matter how wrong Wawrinka was.

It was common sense from the beginning judging by the way the umpire was acting towards Stan.

I'm so glad he treated him like he was being daft, because he was.

Bartelby · Feb 4, 2014

"Not entitled" simply means that the rules do not state he must be informed.

If he asks it can be volunteered and he seemed to suggest it was normal or common practice for someone to offer an explanation out of courtesy.

woodrow1029 said:
Yes! The supervisor was back there to make sure the MTO was within the rules. Stan is not entitled to know what the injury is.

Virginia · Feb 4, 2014

Yes, it is normal practice for an explanation to be offered. Once again, this was confirmed by the expert tv commentators, who know considerably more than most of the posters here.

Bartelby · Feb 4, 2014

Stan's real complaint was that Nadal has a habit of taking opportune mtos when he is behind in a match.

I'm sure he is not so daft as to think they were allowing Nadal something not permitted by the rules.

TheTruth said:
Still trying to find reasons to find fault with Nadal no matter how wrong Wawrinka was.

It was common sense from the beginning judging by the way the umpire was acting towards Stan.

I'm so glad he treated him like he was being daft, because he was.

Crisstti · Feb 4, 2014

Bartelby said:
"Not entitled" simply means that the rules do not state he must be informed.

If he asks it can be volunteered and he seemed to suggest it was normal or common practice for someone to offer an explanation out of courtesy.

^^ Well, isn't it funny how common practice suddenly matters. When it comes to stuff like time between points, it's completely disregarded.

Btw, I call into question the umpire having to inform what the physical problem of the opponent is being common practice.

Bartelby · Feb 4, 2014

Given the constant schtick about discipline and not throwing racquets and all that palaver, we have a guy who can't discipline himself to arrive on time, to serve on time, to abide by the rules against coaching and who takes copious amounts of time outs.

Just imagine if he was ill disciplined!

SwankPeRFection said:
MTOs for Nadal = Must Take Oral Steroids.

I thought this was common knowledge by now. Fact is, high figure pros get special treatment and the rules aren't followed to a T with them. The rich get away with **** and the poor do not. Same thing on the pro court my friend, like it or not. It's only when people make a big deal out of it that it seems it finally gets addressed.

How many years did Nadal play with tic time delays before it became a public outcry in the press and then Nadal did his two towel BS drama play he's currently doing now? How much delay and toweling off and tics did he do during the Stan match? Oh, that right, not that much... When he's losing, all of a sudden the tactics take a back seat for some reason. Gimme a break! I have ZERO respect for this guy. He may be a nice person in life off the court, but his uncle has ruined his persona by teaching him to pull this **** to win. This is how he wins. MindJob Nadal...

Bartelby · Feb 4, 2014

It does not really matter because what he said and what he intended to convey were two different things. Everyone knew what he meant.

In any event, the rules do not prohibit him from asking so he can ask as much as he likes. He just won't get an answer. And not from the CU who knows nothing.

Crisstti said:
^^ Well, isn't it funny how common practice suddenly matters. When it comes to stuff like time between points, it's completely disregarded.

Btw, I call into question the umpire having to inform what the physical problem of the opponent is being common practice.

user92626 · Feb 4, 2014

Virginia,

You're full of craps. Bullfan and woodrow already gave you very concrete, credible answers. You just choose to ignore them.

bullfan said:
You are all over the place here trying to insult Nadal. The original question has morphed for you because Wawrinka was incorrect in demanding answers. Those answers weren't required to be provided to either Wawa or to the Ump.

Sadly, you've brought up fear and a third ump issue that had nothing to do with the original post because Nadal was within the rules, and the Ump properly told Wawa to drop his demands for Nadals MTO.

Bartelby · Feb 4, 2014

Answering questions with questions?

user92626 said:
Virginia,

You're full of craps. Bullfan and woodrow already gave you very concrete, credible answers. You just choose to ignore them.

Bartelby · Feb 4, 2014

And here is the real problem. We have a rule open to abuse.

volleygirl said:
Tennis' rules for injuries is a joke. Its embarassing to see these players continually abuse the rule. The way Azarenka did it last year shouldve made it obvious to make changes to them.

user92626 · Feb 4, 2014

Bartelby said:
Answering questions with questions?

Get your reading skill on.

Virginia's questions in the op were:

What's all that about??? How can an umpire not know why a player is disappearing from the court? Can a player go off court just because he feels like it?

Several others have answered her/him that it was about the umpire and Waw not privy to Nadal's medical condition. The umpire or officials know that Nadal was taking an MTO and that's sufficient. Woodrow already answered that an official went with Nadal. If officials didn't know or not ok with Nadal, would they just follow and stalk Nadal?

Virginia · Feb 4, 2014

user92626 said:
Virginia,

You're full of craps. Bullfan and woodrow already gave you very concrete, credible answers. You just choose to ignore them.

I was not satisfied with those answers. Woodrow can be very oblique in his posts at times and maybe that's because he doesn't want to appear to be critical of his fellow umpires. That's fair enough and I'm OK with that.

As for bullfan, well, he's clearly biased.

The bottom line is Nadal went off court for an injury that is normally treated on court. Wawrinka was entitled to ask the reason, because this is contrary to standard practice.

Nadal lays himself open to questioning about MTOs because of his previous history with strategic timing of those MTOs.

bullfan · Feb 4, 2014

Virginia said:
I was not satisfied with those answers. Woodrow can be very oblique in his posts at times and maybe that's because he doesn't want to appear to be critical of his fellow umpires. That's fair enough and I'm OK with that.

As for bullfan, well, he's clearly biased.

The bottom line is Nadal went off court for an injury that is normally treated on court. Wawrinka was entitled to ask the reason, because this is contrary to standard practice.

Nadal lays himself open to questioning about MTOs because of his previous history with strategic timing of those MTOs.

Sounds like you won't accept any answer unless it supports your own agenda. You posed a question, and really wanted a different answer than the actual answers you refuse to accept. I don't have a bias here, I'm providing an accurate answer. It seems that this is still in your crawl and you can't let it go.

Please point to the rule to back up your statement. FYI, you can't as it doesn't exist.

Crisstti · Feb 4, 2014

Virginia said:
Nadal lays himself open to questioning about MTOs because of his previous history with strategic timing of those MTOs.

Not true.

I don't know why this thread even keeps going. The issue is simple: Wawrinka was wrong. WRONG. End of.

Umpire not supposed to????

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