2017 French Open - Men's General Discussion

Who will win?

  • Total voters
    120
  • Poll closed .
fundrazer

fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
Josh Lyman said:
Woke up to see Thiem absolutely destroyed Djokovic. Whaaat???

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Hey it's redeye.
 
marc45

marc45

G.O.A.T.
NYT:

Hungry and Rising, Dominic Thiem Ousts Novak Djokovic at French Open

By CHRISTOPHER CLAREY JUNE 7, 2017

  • French Open on Wednesday, close enough to hear the ball bouncing off the damp red clay, you were also close enough to sense the hunger gap.

    Dominic Thiem, 23 and on the rise, was throwing himself into next-gear forehands on Court Suzanne Lenglen — sprinting and sliding for drop shots and exuding the relentless positive energy that wins Grand Slam titles.

    Novak Djokovic, 30 and on the wane, seemed muted in comparison.

    Yes, there were flashback moments: a reflex return winner that elicited a collective gasp of surprise; a wide-eyed, in-the-moment look at what remains of his entourage after prevailing in an extended corner-to-corner-to-corner point in the first set.

    But clay-court tennis is a marathon, not a sprint, and by the end of this French Open quarterfinal, Djokovic was out of trump cards, out of belief and out of the tournament where he experienced what may turn out to be his crowning tennis moment.

    Was it really only a year ago?

    It felt longer on Wednesday in the Paris sunshine as Thiem accelerated to the finish of his 7-6 (5), 6-3, 6-0 quarterfinal victory, with Djokovic looking surprisingly resigned to that outcome.

    “I obviously always expect a lot from myself, but it’s a fact that I’m not playing close to my best, and I know that,” said Djokovic, his self-analysis under duress more accurate than his two-handed backhand was.

    “He basically gave up,” said John McEnroe, speaking to the BBC.

    First, though, Thiem had to save two set points at 4-5 in the first set by being very bold. Then he had to navigate a tiebreaker in which neither man won a point on serve in the first six points. Then came the errors, often small-margin ones, by Djokovic at the least opportune moments — a trademark of his 2017 season. Then came what looked a lot more serious: capitulation in the face of superior tennis power and will power.

    The pendulum can swing back, of course. It often has in tennis, particularly for this generation of men’s superstars. Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal were once judged in irreversible decline, and look at them now. Andre Agassi, Djokovic’s latest star consultant, returned from a triple-digit ranking and a visit to the Challenger circuit to hit his highest notes in his early 30s.

    There is also the example of Stan Wawrinka, the 32-year-old Swiss who ripped past Marin Cilic, 6-3, 6-3, 6-1, in their quarterfinal and is now the oldest man to reach the final four at Roland Garros since Jimmy Connors in 1985. The third-seeded Wawrinka will face No. 1 Andy Murray on Friday, while Thiem will face Nadal.

    Only Djokovic knows deep inside if he still has the desire, and after the defeat on Wednesday he did not dismiss the notion of taking an extended break from the game. But his continuing search for zénitude does not necessarily jibe with the prickly attitude that has helped propel him to his biggest triumphs.

    It is not sad to watch him fall short at this stage. He has achieved too much, checked too many boxes and earned too many millions for anyone to feel pity.

    It is more curious than poignant.

    A year ago, when he finally won the French Open, Djokovic held all four Grand Slam singles titles. After losing to Thiem, he holds none, and on Monday he will fall out of the top two in the rankings for the first time since 2011.

    “The Novak reign is officially over,” said Patrick McEnroe, the ESPN analyst and former United States Davis Cup captain.

    A full-blown restoration looks unlikely, in part because there is so much young talent making a move. Thiem, shepherded since age 9 by his remarkable Austrian coach, Gunter Bresnik, is a big-time player with a forehand, a one-handed backhand and a serve that are all intimidating weapons.
    He is also deceptively quick, as Djokovic discovered again and again on Wednesday as he hit fine, well-masked drop shots and still lost the points.

    It was, in short, a very different experience than their most recent match on Court Suzanne Lenglen. That occurred in last year’s French Open semifinals, when Djokovic won, 6-2, 6-1, 6-4, and left Thiem looking shellshocked. Wednesday was an even more radical departure from their most recent meeting, in the semifinals in Rome last month, when Djokovic blew away Thiem, 6-1, 6-0, on red clay.

    Thiem did have a reasonable explanation for that result: He had just summoned the will and skill to beat Nadal in the quarterfinals.

    Now Thiem will have to come back in Paris from beating Djokovic in straight sets to face Nadal in the semifinals of the clay-court tournament that matters most.

    “He’s again in his best shape,” Thiem said of Nadal. “So going to be the toughest match what you can imagine.”

    No argument there. Nadal is the greatest men’s clay-court player in history and is homing in on “La Decima,” his 10th French Open title. Thiem has yet to get past the semifinals at any Grand Slam tournament.

    But the potential is there for a true tussle, and there is a bit of the mirror image in Thiem’s game, with Thiem whipping his world-class forehand with his right hand and Nadal whipping his with his left.

    “Well, it’s true that they both hit with a lot of topspin,” said Toni Nadal, Nadal’s uncle and coach. “There are some similarities, but I do think Thiem hits harder than Rafael, although Rafael, in my view, has a bit more skill.”

    They also share a slashing, swashbuckling style and an ability to flatten out the forehand.

    Theim’s ability to rip the ball down the line under pressure will be critical again on Friday, as will his ability to keep finding the lines with his wide kick serves, as he did so well against Djokovic.

    “His best shot I think is his forehand,” Toni Nadal said of Thiem. “But the serve is also very good. He can kick it or go for the big one. All around, he’s very good, and I think he will have less pressure than Rafael, and I know he will come out with the idea of doing damage.”

    Thiem did plenty in Rome in his 6-4, 6-3 victory, but for all his kinetic and positive energy, there can be no doubt about who still deserves to be the favorite at Roland Garros.

    Nadal may be Majorcan, but this has been his playground. Like Thiem and Wawrinka, he has yet to lose a set here this year but, unlike Thiem and Wawrinka, he only had to play 10 games in his quarterfinal on Wednesday before his fellow Spaniard Pablo Carreño Busta retired with an abdominal injury with Nadal up, 6-2, 2-0.

    At age 31, even after all his own victories and millions, Nadal is moving and competing at something deeply resembling his best.

    There might have been a hunger gap on Wednesday, but it would come as a shock if there were one on Friday.

    “It’s true,” Toni Nadal said. “They both are full of desire.”
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
ruerooo said:
Rafa tore an ab muscle at the USO in 2009. DelPo beat him in their SF, going in to meet Roger in the final.
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He actually mentioned that in his press conference yesterday, and called it a 'stupid decision' on his part, considering that it grew from a 5 mm tear to a 27 mm tear (IIRC) by the time he was done.
 
Adv. Edberg

Adv. Edberg

Legend
Bender said:
He actually mentioned that in his press conference yesterday, and called it a 'stupid decision' on his part, considering that it grew from a 5 mm tear to a 27 mm tear (IIRC) by the time he was done.
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Why did he mention it yesterday? Is he injured now?
 
Gazelle

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
Bender said:
He actually mentioned that in his press conference yesterday, and called it a 'stupid decision' on his part, considering that it grew from a 5 mm tear to a 27 mm tear (IIRC) by the time he was done.
Click to expand...

We all know Nadal and his hyperboles.
 
bjk

bjk

Hall of Fame
Tennis on NBC has been bumped by Comey's testimony. Too bad . . . don't they realize that Comey's testimony is also available on about 10 other channels?
 
kandamrgam

kandamrgam

Hall of Fame
Gary Duane said:
It certainly looks like he would have won the AO this year without Fed, and if he wins RG we can imagine that he might have two legs of a grand slam this year.

I think he is having a great year, but these results are not exactly pointing to great competition, are they?
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Yes I do think the competition isn't great at all. Last year's Novak would have no trouble beating this year's Rafa. Both no.1 and 2 not at their best, Roger totally missing from clay, the Ferrers, Berdychs, Tsongas, Nishikoris who fill the rest of the top 10 are all essentially missing.

Two years back could we have seen emergence of Carreno Busta, Ramos Vinolas, Schwartzman and likes? Happy with forms of Nadal, Wawrinka, Goffin, Thiem. The tour is basically this :)

I do think, however, all those years (barring 2015) whoever beat Nadal on clay really earned it. Beating him on clay is no mean task in any form. Thiem this year, Murray last year, Djoker especially in 2011. 2015 was one year where he looked he could fall to nobodys. And Zeballos in 2013 too when Nadal was just returning from long lay off.
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Well this did not go the way I thought it would. I honestly expect a more even score, and a higher level of play from both.

A bit of a scrappy match from both, with Thiem scrapping a bit more.
 
junior74

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
Bender said:
Well this did not go the way I thought it would. I honestly expect a more even score, and a higher level of play from both.

A bit of a scrappy match from both, with Thiem scrapping a bit more.
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The other semi was high level, even fireworks at times :)
 
BeatlesFan

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Shangri La said:
Stan's body will give up on him come Sunday.
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Have you ever seen Stan lose a match because he was tired? Stan gives up mentally in countless matches, but he fights through his fatigue as well (or perhaps even better) than Djoker or Nadal. And that's a high bar. Stan will lose convincingly on Sunday, but it won't be because he gets tired.
 
Backhanded Compliment

Backhanded Compliment

Legend
BeatlesFan said:
Have you ever seen Stan lose a match because he was tired? Stan gives up mentally in countless matches, but he fights through his fatigue as well (or perhaps even better) than Djoker or Nadal. And that's a high bar. Stan will lose convincingly on Sunday, but it won't be because he gets tired.
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Im not so sure he's gonna lose. Rafa's the better bet but Stan doesnt play rational tennis and it is disruptive to those who play it like Nole, Murray and Rafa. The final Ive wanted to see between two very idiomatic players.
 
Adv. Edberg

Adv. Edberg

Legend
Bender said:
Well this did not go the way I thought it would. I honestly expect a more even score, and a higher level of play from both.

A bit of a scrappy match from both, with Thiem scrapping a bit more.
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Agree. Not good quality from either player.

Let's hope Nadal can up his game to give Wawa a match.
 
Aussie Darcy

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Zara said:
Funny that the poll has same votes as Djokovic for Zverev. Overestimating and underestimating at its best lol. And Wawrinka has 15 votes - all by Federer fans I presume.
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Still funny? ;)

Aussie Darcy said:
Funny you mention Wawrinka. He just won a title like 2 days ago and yet he won his first match here in straights. As someone who voted for Stan by the way, I didn't do it as a Fed fan or whatever, I did it because Djokovic has been inconsistent, Murray is basically a write off and Nadal lost easily to Zverev so he's no overwhelming favourite for me. Stan puts in a fantastic slam every so often and I had him tipped for here.
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Looks like I was pretty much right.
 
Aussie Darcy

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
If Wawrinka wins the French, he'll become the 1st player outside of Big Four to reach No. 2 in Emirates the ATP Rankings since Lleyton Hewitt way back in July 18-24, 2005.
 
Aussie Darcy

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Aussie Darcy said:
I know it'll be shot down, but a serious argument for a reduction to B03 at the slams in earlier rounds (excluding SF and final in my opinion)

5 of the 25 completed 3R/4R/QF matches have ended in retirement.

Gasquet against Monfils, Garcia Lopez against Raonic, Goffin against Zeballos, Anderson against Cilic and now PCB against Nadal.

None on the womens side in 3R/4R/QF. (Not saying it's better quality, just saying that many men can't withstand back to back 5 set matches unlike the big 4. Really favours them in a way.
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Just to further this up:

Scores of the final sets in the men's QFs and SFs at this years French Open:

QFs:
6-1
6-1
2-0 (ret)
6-0

SFs:
6-1
6-0

Only one of the 6 matches went to a 5th set.
 
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