A catch 22

[The Dark Knight]

If Nadal wins he gets one step closer to the "16"

If Joker wins he becomes the candidate for Goat because he in reality will have won a real grand slam and not a "career grandslam"....and he will have done something roger or anyone else has never been able to do:

Beat Nadal in a French open final......


So no matter who wins fed fans will lose .....but if I were a fed fan then I would pray nadal wins.....if Joker wins Feds goat status is gone


***** the catch :


The requirement that you are Fed fan is to root against Nadal, but if you root against Nadal tommorpw you can't be a fed fan ( because joker will be the goat).

 

[ace_pace]

LOL.

In what way is Fed's goat status gone?

 

[WhiskeyEE]

GOAT is not synonymous with 4 slams in a row. That's merely 1 achievement he'd have over Roger.

I'm cheering for Joker because I want Nadal to lose. It has nothing to do with GOAT contention.

 

[Spider]

If Nadal wins he gets one step closer to the "16"

If Joker wins he becomes the candidate for Goat because he in reality will have won a real grand slam and not a "career grandslam"....and he will have done something roger or anyone else has never been able to do:

Beat Nadal in a French open final......


So no matter who wins fed fans will lose .....but if I were a fed fan then I would pray nadal wins.....if Joker wins Feds goat status is gone.

Federer was never a goat or whatever to begin with. So, no worries.

 

[Spider]

Just to clarify, most successful player - yes. Greatest ever - no.

 

[jokinla]

If Nadal wins he gets one step closer to the "16"

If Joker wins he becomes the candidate for Goat because he in reality will have won a real grand slam and not a "career grandslam"....and he will have done something roger or anyone else has never been able to do:

Beat Nadal in a French open final......


So no matter who wins fed fans will lose .....but if I were a fed fan then I would pray nadal wins.....if Joker wins Feds goat status is gone.

In your book it's gone, but in the real world it won't change, sorry.

 

[The Dark Knight]

LOL.

In what way is Fed's goat status gone?

Fed could never beat nadal in a FO final....not in his prime ...NEVER....

Plus if joker wins it may no be "technically " the grand slam....but in reality we all know it is

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Fed could never beat nadal in a FO final....not in his prime ...NEVER....

Plus if joker wins it may no be "technically " the grand slam....but in reality we all know it is

Nadal could not beat Fed at USO or WTF. Not in his prime, never. It's a good thing he sucks so badly outside of clay and couldn't make more finals.

 

[jokinla]

Fed could never beat nadal in a FO final....not in his prime ...NEVER....

Plus if joker wins it may no be "technically " the grand slam....but in reality we all know it is

Yes of course, again, not in the real world, but in your own little special world.

 

[gold soundz]

Nadal could not beat Fed at USO or WTF. Not in his prime, never. It's a good thing he sucks so badly outside of clay and couldn't make more finals.

I think if Nadal met Federer at the 2010 or 2011 USO, Nadal would win fairly comfortably.

 

[FlashFlare11]

If Nadal wins he gets one step closer to the "16"

If Joker wins he becomes the candidate for Goat because he in reality will have won a real grand slam and not a "career grandslam"....and he will have done something roger or anyone else has never been able to do:

Beat Nadal in a French open final......


So no matter who wins fed fans will lose .....but if I were a fed fan then I would pray nadal wins.....if Joker wins Feds goat status is gone.

Trying hard to convince us that you're totally clueless, eh? We believe you.

Please, tell us how Federer's status is affected by anything happens on Sunday.

Djokovic holding all four outside of a calendar year is, all of a sudden, equivalent to a Calendar-Year Grand Slam? Fabulous! So who wins RG in that reality of yours?

(By the way, if you were trying to convince us that you don't actually "hate" Federer and his fans, good job so far. Keep it up!)

 

[jokinla]

Let's not forget, although in the OP's alternate world he probably has, that Fed has twice been in this position and Nads once, sure if he wins it'll be taking a step further that neither of them have taken, but it hardly elevates him past them. When Agassi won his career slam, people didn't suddenly say, he's surpassed Sampras, it was just something he had that Sampras didn't.

 

[FlashFlare11]

Let's not forget, although in the OP's alternate world he probably has, that Fed has twice been in this position and Nads once, sure if he wins it'll be taking a step further that neither of them have taken, but it hardly elevates him past them. When Agassi won his career slam, people didn't suddenly say, he's surpassed Sampras, it was just something he had that Sampras didn't.

In my opinion, the result on Sunday does not change the status of either Djokovic or Nadal in relation to each other and Federer. Even if Djokovic holds all four (still an amazing feat), it will not put him past a 10-time slam champion in Nadal. Likewise, Nadal, a player whom most already consider to be the greatest clay-courter ever, will not really have his status elevated significantly with a 7th RG. He would still trail Federer and Sampras in slam numbers (which, according to the OP, is the most important factor, yet he forgets which male player has the most in the Open Era).

 

[okdude1992]

Yeah ok buddy. Rafa hasn't won a non-clay title since 2010. He's won 3 non-clay titles in the last 3 years. He sucks **** on fast HC and routinely gets beaten down by Fed at the WTF. He would've lost both of those finals.

Yea gotta disagree. 2010 was some of Nadal's absolute best tennis ever. Federer in 2010 was not prime, plus the matchup issue. Definately think Nadal would have won that one. But it doesn't matter because he blew it vs Novak. Anyway, I'm hoping Nadal wins Sunday because if Novak gets the career slam it means less, and plus he holds all 4. On top of that, If he regains mental dominnce over Nadal, then the floodgates will open and he wins a ton more slams. That would really diminish the legacy of both Fed and Nadal

 

[nadal_slam_king]

GOAT is not synonymous with 4 slams in a row. That's merely 1 achievement he'd have over Roger.

I'm cheering for Joker because I want Nadal to lose. It has nothing to do with GOAT contention.

LOL you are defining what "GOAT" is? It doesn't even exist and you are trying to define it? :lol: It's fan made fantasy.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Yea gotta disagree. 2010 was some of Nadal's absolute best tennis ever. Federer in 2010 was not prime, plus the matchup issue. Definately think Nadal would have won that one. But it doesn't matter because he blew it vs Novak. Anyway, I'm hoping Nadal wins Sunday because if Novak gets the career slam it means less, and plus he holds all 4. On top of that, If he regains mental dominnce over Nadal, then the floodgates will open and he wins a ton more slams. That would really diminish the legacy of both Fed and Nadal

And yet he still lost to Fed at the WTF that year. USO plays much more like WTF than AO, IW, or whatever. It's a low bouncing moderate-fast hard court. Nadal sucks on it and there's no matchup issue on that surface.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

LOL you are defining what "GOAT" is? It doesn't even exist and you are trying to define it? :lol: It's fan made fantasy.

I never defined it. I said what it isn't.

And actually I agree with you for once. All of this GOAT discussion is ridiculous. You can't compare modern tennis to 70s tennis. You can't even compare today's tennis to 90s tennis.

As Chael Sonnen would say, the people who sit around and attempt to create a GOAT list are one step away from the same people who sit around and discuss the different possible integers as to why Batman would beat Superman. It's impossible to know. It's a ridiculous topic.

 

[primetennis]

Just to clarify, most successful player - yes. Greatest ever - no.

If roger is not the greatest ever,then there is no greatest ever in the sport at all..

 

[nadal_slam_king]

If roger is not the greatest ever,then there is no greatest ever in the sport at all..

Fan made fantasy.

 

[Spider]

If roger is not the greatest ever,then there is no greatest ever in the sport at all..

Whatever makes you sleep well...

 

[The Bawss]

Just wanted to point out that this isn't a catch 22, OP.

 

[Jay_The_Nomad]

a lose-lose situation... not catch 22.

and its not really a lose-lose situation. Nadal winning another slam will bring him closer yes, but djokovic winning the calendar slam is a monumental effort that will probably not be repeated. Not sure if Djoker can even do it. SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT with the way Nadal is owning everyone.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Just wanted to point out that this isn't a catch 22, OP.

I think it is.....

The example given in the book.....

"to volunteer for the army during a time of war you have to be crazy.....but if your crazy then you are not fit for the army"

Conversely


" If A fed fan roots for Nadal his arch enemy he is a traitor ....but if you are a traitor
Rooting for Nadal and Joker wins then you have saved Federers life as GOAT" ( at least for the time being)"

.

 

[Federererer]

If Nadal wins he gets one step closer to the "16"

If Joker wins he becomes the candidate for Goat because he in reality will have won a real grand slam and not a "career grandslam"....and he will have done something roger or anyone else has never been able to do:

Beat Nadal in a French open final......


So no matter who wins fed fans will lose .....but if I were a fed fan then I would pray nadal wins.....if Joker wins Feds goat status is gone.

Sorry, but that's not a catch-22. Did you even read the book?

 

[The Dark Knight]

" If A fed fan roots for Nadal his arch enemy he is a traitor ....but if you are a traitor
Rooting for Nadal and Joker wins then you have saved Federers life as GOAT" ( at least for the time being)"

.

I fixed it I think...what do you think now?

 

[Federererer]

I fixed it I think...what do you think now?

Catch-22 is more about actions. Eg. The requirement for getting a job is that you need experience. But you can't get experience without having a job. It's like a dog trying to catch his tail.

 

[El Diablo]

Based on the OP's logic, Laver is the GOAT as he has won two calendar Grand Slams, and has more total slams than Djokovic.

 

[Federererer]

Based on the OP's logic, Laver is the GOAT as he has won two calendar Grand Slams, and has more total slams than Djokovic.

Well a lot of misguided people incorrectly believe Laver is the GOAT.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Well a lot of misguided people incorrectly believe Laver is the GOAT.

Even though Emerson won more slams......why ?

Do you see the analogy here guys?? here watch...

If Djoker wins the FO tomorrow

Then Federer is to Emerson as Djonkovic is to laver.

( Emerson won more slams but djokovic would have the actual calendar slam).

 

[The Dark Knight]

Catch-22 is more about actions. Eg. The requirement for getting a job is that you need experience. But you can't get experience without having a job. It's like a dog trying to catch his tail.

The requirement that you are Fed fan is to root against Nadal, but if you root against Nadal tommorpw you can't be a fed fan ( because joker will be the goat).

 

[jackson vile]

Grand Slam here we come!

 

[Djokodal Fan]

Fed status disappears overnight all of sudden just because Novak wins 4 in a row?

 

[The Dark Knight]

Fed status disappears overnight all of sudden just because Novak wins 4 in a row?

Yes.....the same way Emerson's did.

Prior to Fed Laver was considered the GOAT.

But why ? He didn't have the most slams....Emerson had more.....

But laver won the calendar slam. Winning the calendar slam is the be all end all in tennis....

Joker wins the FO Tommorow he for all intents and purposes will have won a calendar slam by beating Nadal in the FO something Fed could never do.....

Like Laver is considered better than Emerson with less slams.....Djoker will be considered the better player.

Fed fans mistakenly believe that the number of slams one wins automatically makes you the goat. A you can see with Laver......it's just not true.

Is Nadal greater than Borg ? Borg has more slams....but Nadal won on all surfaces and has the career slam.


You see it's not the number of slams that matter.....

If Joker wins Tommorow he wil arguably be the GOAT

 

[sbengte]

It's all about perspective, OP. Whoever wins tomorrow will help Fed preserve his legacy in some way so it is win-win for Fed fans.

If Nadal wins, he will prevent the Novak Slam so Fed fans will be happy that no one achieved this feat that their hero failed to achieve.
If Djoker wins, he will prevent Nadal's record 7th RG and also getting close to Fed in the total slam count with a possibility of overtaking 16, so Fed fans will be happy anyway.

See how that works ?

 

[zagor]

Not all of us are obsessed with the stats as OP is, I'd like to see Novak finally win FO, that's about it.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Not all of us are obsessed with the stats as OP is, I'd like to see Novak finally win FO, that's about it.

Then are you a truly a fed fan?

By rooting for Joker you are rooting for the guy who will have the best argument that he is the GOAT and dethroning the man you claim loyalty to. That makes
You a traitor.

See the catch ?

 

[The Dark Knight]

It's all about perspective, OP. Whoever wins tomorrow will help Fed preserve his legacy in some way so it is win-win for Fed fans.

If Nadal wins, he will prevent the Novak Slam so Fed fans will be happy that no one achieved this feat that their hero failed to achieve.
If Djoker wins, he will prevent Nadal's record 7th RG and also getting close to Fed in the total slam count with a possibility of overtaking 16, so Fed fans will be happy anyway.

See how that works ?

Yes very very smart..... Cup is half full.....

Except Joker will be considered the GOAT. He will have a far better argument than Nadal ha ever had .

You will have to ten deal with not only The nadal head to head but now the Joker argument.

Sheesh the competition is not only getting tougher for Fed but also for fed fans.

I don't even see how you will be able to counter the Joker argument. You can't use the "prime " defense because Fed never could beat Nadal I'm his prime at the Fo.

You can't use the 16 slams either because like lager joker has the calendar slam.

What the hell are you going to do?

 

[Spider]

LOL. Federer's records are not going to stay. Some day all will be gone. That could happen as soon as the current moment with Nadal and Djokovic or sometime in future. And if your only joy in life is his records, then you need help.

 

[The Dark Knight]

LOL. Federer's records are not going to stay. Some day all will be gone. That could happen as soon as the current moment with Nadal and Djokovic or sometime in future. And if your only joy in life is his records, then you need help.

Lavers are still in tact.

 

[Spider]

Lavers are still in tact.

16 slams is doable. It takes extreme efforts but doable. It might happen sooner than you think.

Winning four in a row takes extreme dominance in one season.

 

[nadal_slam_king]

Nadal will win more than 16 slams because 2012 is his best Roland Garros form ever. His decline down to loser status is many years away. Additionally, his form heading into Wimbledon each year is excellent due to each RG triumph. A huge chance at winning 5 Wimbledons total. The last time he lost before the Wimbledon final is 2005.

 

[FlashFlare11]

Neither one of them becomes the GOAT by winning RG tomorrow. Nothing changes.

 

[decades]

If Nadal wins he gets one step closer to the "16"

If Joker wins he becomes the candidate for Goat because he in reality will have won a real grand slam and not a "career grandslam"....and he will have done something roger or anyone else has never been able to do:

Beat Nadal in a French open final......


So no matter who wins fed fans will lose .....but if I were a fed fan then I would pray nadal wins.....if Joker wins Feds goat status is gone


***** the catch :


The requirement that you are Fed fan is to root against Nadal, but if you root against Nadal tommorpw you can't be a fed fan ( because joker will be the goat).

you really have thought long and hard about something that in the end will be debated without resolution on the Internet for generations. although if fed keeps playing what really is going to look questionable is the head to head against both.

 

[billnepill]

If Nadal wins he gets one step closer to the "16"

If Joker wins he becomes the candidate for Goat because he in reality will have won a real grand slam and not a "career grandslam"....and he will have done something roger or anyone else has never been able to do:

Beat Nadal in a French open final......


So no matter who wins fed fans will lose .....but if I were a fed fan then I would pray nadal wins.....if Joker wins Feds goat status is gone


***** the catch :


The requirement that you are Fed fan is to root against Nadal, but if you root against Nadal tommorpw you can't be a fed fan ( because joker will be the goat).

look, Laver has done it twice and Federer is still considered the GOAT hehe

 

[TMF]

Federer was never a goat or whatever to begin with. So, no worries.

Just to clarify, most successful player - yes. Greatest ever - no.

GREATEST FEMALE TENNIS PLAYERS

1 Steffi Graf*
2 Martina Navratilova*
3 Margaret Court*
4 Chris Evert*
5 Billy Jean King*
6 Serena Williams*
7 Monica Seles*
8 Venus Williams*
9 Suzanne Lenglen*
10 Justine Henin*
11 Maureen Connolly*
12 Helen Wills Moody*
13 Matina Hingis*
14 Evonne Goolagong*
15 Maria Bueno*
16 Althea Gibson*
17 Lindsay Davenport*
18 Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario*
19 Kim Clijsters*
20 Doris Hart*
21 Tracy Austin*
22 Jennifer Capriati*
23 Alice Marble*
24 Margaret Osborne duPont*
25 Virginia Wade*
26 Hana Mandlikova*
27 Helen Hull Jacobs*
28 Louise Brough Clapp*
29 Maria Sharapova*
30 Pauline Betz Addie*
31 Molla Mallory*
32 Ashly Cooper*
33 Gabriela Sabatini*
34 Mary Piece*
35 Amelie Mauresmo*
36 Dorothea Lambert Chambers*
37 Shirley Fry-Irvin*
38 Svetlana Kuznetsova*
39 Ann Haydon-Jones*




GREATEST MALE TENNIS PLAYERS

1 Roger Federer
2 Rod Laver
3 Pete Sampras
4 Rafael Nadal
5 Bjorn Borg
6 Don Budge
7 Andre Agassi
8 John McEnroe
9 Jimmy Connors
10 Bill Tilden
11 Roy Emerson
12 Ivan Lendl
13 Ken Rosewall
14 Boris Becker
15 Fred Perry
16 Stefan Edberg
17 Arthur Ashe
18 John Newcombe
19 Lew Hoad
20 Mats Wilander
21 Jack Kramer
22 Pancho Gonzales
23 Rene Lacoste
24 Novak Djokovic
25 Guillermo Vilas
26 Jim Courier
27 Henri Cochet
28 Jean Borotha
29 Frank Sedgman
30 Ilie Nastase
31 Tony Trabert
32 Jack Crawford
33 Manuel Santana
34 Guga Kuerten
35 Stan Smith
36 Neale Fraser
37 Lleyton Hewitt
38 Ellsworth Vines
39 Pancho Segura
40 Bobby Riggs
41 Fred Stolle
42 Patrick Rafter
43 Gottfried Von Cramm
44 Jaroslave Drobny
45 Tony Roche
46 William Renshaw
47 Marat Safin
48 Vic Seixas
49 Yevgeny Kafelnikov
50 Jan Kodes
51 Norman Brookes
52 Yannick Noah
53 Tony Wilding
54 Bill Johnston
55 Nicola Pietrangeli
56 Andy Roddick
57 Thomas Muster
58 Manuel Orantes
59 Pat Cash
60 Henry Austin
61 Michael Chang

 

[TMF]

If roger is not the greatest ever,then there is no greatest ever in the sport at all..

Spider is clueless.

In every sports, there is a player(s) in which most fans declared him or her as the greatest. Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky or Jerry Rice are consider the greatest player in their respective sport.

 

[billnepill]

guys, grandpa Federer with his back problems is still beating Nadal and Djoker in their primes here and there.

Imagine if old Agassi beat Federer during Federer's prime :shock:
I think the fact they are losing to Fed at this stage disqualifies them from the GOAT debate.

In addition, if Fed is a weak era champion and he is not the GOAT, how is beating him now hardly an achievement? If Fed is not the GOAT that makes this era very weak, no? Catch 22, no?

 

[jackson vile]

guys, grandpa Federer with his back problems is still beating Nadal and Djoker in their primes here and there.

Imagine if old Agassi beat Federer during Federer's prime :shock:
I think the fact they are losing to Fed at this stage disqualifies them from the GOAT debate.

In addition, if Fed is a weak era champion and he is not the GOAT, how is beating him now hardly an achievement? If Fed is not the GOAT that makes this era very weak, no? Catch 22, no?

What back problems, not with the excuses again...:?

 

[billnepill]

What back problems, not with the excuses again...:?

What excuses JV? Is Djokovic's gluten intolerance an excuse for his pre-2011 career or just a fact of life? Are Agassi's problems an excuse or just a fact of life? Is Nadal's tendinitis an excuse or a fact of life?

Depends on how you look at it and how you present it. I am certainly not saying he is losing just because of that. It is just a fact.

 

[TopFH]

Then are you a truly a fed fan?

By rooting for Joker you are rooting for the guy who will have the best argument that he is the GOAT and dethroning the man you claim loyalty to. That makes
You a traitor.

See the catch ?

I am a Federer fan and want Djokovic to win tomorrow. Ever since I read about Laver's Grand Slam, I wanted to see someone do it. Federer was two points away from doing it from RG09-AO10. In 2011, I was sure Nadal wouldn't win the AO, so no worries. But now, a real chance has happened of the Grand Slam being accomplished. Still, I am a tennis fan more than a Federer fan, and tomorrow will be a great day for tennis whatever the result is.

So no, you are not a "traitor" if you want Djokovic to win. This isn't Game of Thrones.