A secret about serves revealed

[sureshs]

From time to time, I reveal some secrets about tennis. Recent ones have been:

1. Slice serve is the basic serve
2. Open face topspin forehand is often used by pros, mistaken as flat shots
3. Open stance one-handed backhand

Here is a new one.

From the deuce court (for a rightie), club players often struggle with their serve direction, especially in doubles, when they are standing away from the center line. They don't seem to be able to get it in diagonally with confidence.

The secret is to use an Eastern grip, not the Continental. This grip forces you to serve diagonally on the first serve. On the second, it gives enough directional control to get the ball kicking near the center line, or high to the backhand of the rightie opponent.

That is all, folks.

 

[larry10s]

are you advising eastern backhand or forehand grip???

 

[LeeD]

Can't argue wid a guy who's got double my posts....
All generalizations, of course. Specifics might differ, as usual.

 

[sureshs]

are you advising eastern backhand or forehand grip???

Eastern BH.

 

[LeeD]

See, that's where the GENERALIZATION comes into play.
OK, lets look at this ebh slice wide serve duece court rightie thing..
1. Bad strategy. You serve wide, you stick your netman in his alley.
2. You generally go into the rightie returner's forehand.
3. You're hitting the highest and longest part of the court, giving more time for the returner.
4. You're adding more spin, while subtracting ball speed..can be good, can bite you in the rear end when they lob DTL
5. Basic tenet of doubles is hitting the middle, allowing your netman to move a step towards the middle, giving you less angle to cover.
6. Don't quote pro strategy, they can actually hit real serves and their netmen can cover lobs, while they can cover sharp angles. WE CANNOT!!
7. Of course, I'm NOT saying "don't do this". Basic strategy in all of tennis is to use your strengths against your opponent's weakness. So search and seek out their weaknesses, realized your strengths, and play the ball appropriately.

 

[sureshs]

^^^ Tip is meant for the average club player, most of whom can't get a decent serve in under even the slightest pressure.

 

[LeeD]

Oh sorry..
What I hate about 3.5 doubles is the repetitive use of the wide duece court serve, right into the 3.5 opponent's ONLY weapon, his forehand.

 

[papa]

Of course one of the problems with keeping the serve up the middle on both sides is that your giving a RH player a ball right where he likes it and your net guy might be in big trouble. I happen to like the wide serve on the duece side, especially when using signals, maybe two thirds of the time. Yes, you'll get burned once in a while but IMO, its worth the gamble.

I think the tip a good one for club players.

 

[fuzz nation]

I think Lee needs a hug...

Players often need to learn how to align their serves to a target independent of the lines on the court in front of them. Righties are typically tricked into setting up too closed in relation to the left (deuce) service box across the net because of the baseline in front of their feet. It's too easy to use this line as a reference to set ourselves at almost the same angle to the court for each serve, even though the deuce and ad serves happen at significantly different angles.

Different service grips ought to be used for producing different types of serves (maybe flat vs. kicker, etc.), not for hitting at different targets. Otherwise the righty server can only hit a heavy slice at the deuce box with that eastern backhand grip.

A shrewd teacher taught me to figure this issue out when he saw that I was much more closed when serving to him in the deuce court. I had to learn to align the plane of my chest and shoulders perpendicular to the right edge of my target without worrying about the baseline - as long as I stayed behind it. Nothing made me more conscious of this effect than when I stood in the area of the baseline on an un-painted court. Without the lines, my perspective of the court seemed completely different. The only immediate reference was the net!

 

[fuzz nation]

Of course one of the problems with keeping the serve up the middle on both sides is that your giving a RH player a ball right where he likes it and your net guy might be in big trouble. I happen to like the wide serve on the duece side, especially when using signals, maybe two thirds of the time. Yes, you'll get burned once in a while but IMO, its worth the gamble.

I think the tip a good one for club players.

Certainly agree with serving away from trouble, but it can be a smart tactic in doubles to serve up the "T" on both sides for most of a match. This can deny the returners a big angle to return through and it can also let both partners of the serving team sort of "pinch" the middle of their own end and concentrate their coverage. Just a thought to keep handy in your bag of tricks.

 

[sureshs]

I had to learn to align the plane of my chest and shoulders perpendicular to the right edge of my target

Can't visualize this, since I don't know in which dimension the target is supposed to extend. Please explain with respect to baseline or net.

 

[ProgressoR]

Nothing made me more conscious of this effect than when I stood in the area of the baseline on an un-painted court. Without the lines, my perspective of the court seemed completely different. The only immediate reference was the net!

Might I suggest you ask the ground keeper to paint on some lines for the court. Without them it is difficult to gauge whether balls are in or out. Also, you may be footfaulting endlessly and you wouldn't even know. It would even be possible to sneak over on to the other side of the court, past where the centre hash mark would be, when serving, thereby enabling an unfair angle on serves at the T.

 

[papa]

Certainly agree with serving away from trouble, but it can be a smart tactic in doubles to serve up the "T" on both sides for most of a match. This can deny the returners a big angle to return through and it can also let both partners of the serving team sort of "pinch" the middle of their own end and concentrate their coverage. Just a thought to keep handy in your bag of tricks.

Yeah, no question - keeping the ball up the middle does allow the serving team to close the middle a little where most balls will be returned.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

I agree with Lee that the wide serve from the deuce side is not something that should be used often in doubles. Yes, a slice serve is a good surprize to throw in from time to time, but it shouldn't be your regular serve from there.

It's so annoying when you play doubles with someone who constantly hits to the opponent's forehand, especially if that opponent can't hit a backhand to save his life. So many points made so much more difficult than they need to be by serving to the one spot where the other guy can hit a decent ball.

I've played with a partner who hits 95% or more of his serves out wide from the deuce side. Needless to say he struggles to hold serve, despite being a pretty decent player. If he hit 95% to the backhand, he'd win a lot more easily.

 

[Ambivalent]

Surehs has proceeded to troll in a new branch of the forum!

 

[fuzz nation]

Can't visualize this, since I don't know in which dimension the target is supposed to extend. Please explain with respect to baseline or net.

Suppose I'm standing behind the baseline and holding the top of my frame against my chest with the grip pointing straight ahead. If I'm aligning myself to serve to the deuce court, I want to set up so that the grip is pointing at what would be - from my point of view - the right edge of the box. Actually right at the "T". On the ad side, I'd want it pointing a little right of where the service line meets the sideline.

Some players obviously use a more open or closed stance when they serve, but this setup is good for me.

I'm usually okay setting up on the ad side, but when I'm serving to the deuce side, my tiny brain wants to align with the lines on the court (sidelines & center line) instead of turning a little more to the left. The symmetry of the court runs contrary to the alignment of my serve.

 

[fuzz nation]

Might I suggest you ask the ground keeper to paint on some lines for the court. Without them it is difficult to gauge whether balls are in or out. Also, you may be footfaulting endlessly and you wouldn't even know. It would even be possible to sneak over on to the other side of the court, past where the centre hash mark would be, when serving, thereby enabling an unfair angle on serves at the T.

Then there's always night tennis...

If you've ever knocked balls back and forth with someone in a parking lot or something like that, it has that same sort of effect where your perspective is a little bit challenged. No confining parameters 'n stuff.

 

[sureshs]

Are you saying you chest is parallel to the baseline, because only then a perpendicular to it (the frame) would face the deuce target in your case. Then where is the room for rotation?

I had to consciously turn a little to face the deuce court. The advice of always pointing the left foot towards the net post did not work for me. I do that in the ad court, but in the deuce court, the left foot is about 45 degrees to the baseline. But my chest still faces the ad court and then rotates. That is how most pros do it too.

 

[Ajtat411]

fuzz nation, are you a lefty or righty? Just trying to visualize what you're saying.

 

[fuzz nation]

That's my setup. When I go into my motion, I turn my shoulders away from the target so that I can turn back through when I swing to contact.

Getting back to the original point, if I've got the right alignment, I can hit a flat serve, slice, kicker, etc. with the right grip and toss location. Even with the right alignment though, I wouldn't be able to hit a good slice and a flatter serve might even be impossible if I try to hit with an eastern backhand grip. I only use that grip for a heavy topspin serve.

 

[sureshs]

^^^ Ok so you are talking about final position at impact. Makes sense.

 

[LeeD]

I seem to hit my fastest and best first serves from a slightly closed shoulder position. My prep is well over towards McEnroe's back to returner setup.
The reason is, if I open up to square to target, the serve often goes long without a "deadball" effect. If I stay slightly closed, the snap of the racket and rackethand is greater, allowing the racketface to come thru past my hand with more snap!
Not saying this works for everyone, but for me, it did and does.
Pure conti on all serves.