Approaching Matches Like They are Fights

[HunterST]

My number one problem in singles has always been my mental game. When I get nervous, I tend to get overly careful and meek. I play hoping my opponent will give it away.

Recently, I have had success by going into a match with the mindset I would have going into a fistfight (or a MMA match if you want to make it a little less toxic). That type of mindset is energetic, aggressive, and proactive.

What is your mindset when playing? Do you think you would benefit from having a fighting mindset?

 

[Rosstour]

I could benefit from this. I'm way too nice to my opponents.

 

[Curious]

Moratoglu was saying in a recent video: they talk about having fun playing tennis. A tennis match is a fight. You’re not supposed to have fun!

 

[Curious]

Found it.
From 10:30

 

[ChaelAZ]

A fight to me is putting me at odds with something I have to conquer and has dire consequences if I lose. I just don't see it that way. Just like when people say, "Expect to win" puts mental pressure on because if you are losing and NOT meeting expectations, that can just drag you down.

Personally, I look at every time on court as an opportunity to compete. That is all I focus on is, point-to-point trying to use skills and strategy to, of course, try to win, but if I get beat on that one, on to the next point to compete. And when I finish, maybe I have won, or maybe I played and just got beat. In either case I feel good about doing the best I could. That really developed over time for me and I like where I am with it.

 

[ubercat]

Geeze I m out of tune with the times. I tell my opponents great shot and do the racquet clap. And if they won I will tell them what they did great. If they lost I will tell them I got lucky on a few shots. Although I probably should just keep my trap shut on that one.

I am jealous of the guys who are incredibly even-tempered and humble not those who have better shots than me.

What I am working on in a match is trying to ditch a shot that is not working very quickly. I have immense reservoirs of stupidity. For example every time somebody puts a big serve into my back hand corner on the ad side I always end up slicing it wide. The stupid thing is I could fix that very easily by just aiming at cross court the worst it's going to happen is it will drop into the middle of the court.

 

[Aretium]

Moratoglu was saying in a recent video: they talk about having fun playing tennis. A tennis match is a fight. You’re not supposed to have fun!

I think this is totally wrong. (Agree with him about the happiness though). You should embrace the fight as fun. I love a tense close set. Maybe only less so if it's a tournament etc. But you can't always control what will happen.
I remember Nadal saying embrace the pain. My attitude now is to fight and enjoy it, fight for fighting sake and not just to win.
Sometimes I catch myself with a negative attitude, and I have to remind myself why I play tennis. It's because it is hard and tough and more rewarding than other sports. So yes the ups and downs are bigger but it's part of the fun.

 

[tenezlove]

I used to compete at an amateur level in Muay Thai (kickboxing). I found that different competitors had different mindsets that worked for them. For me personally, I did best by being calm and collected. Since professional MMA is entertainment as well, I suspect many of the pros are expected to showcase emotions for entertainment more than for actual performance.

In kickboxing and wrestling , you pretty much use big muscles all the time. A punch has little to do with arms, it is all big muscles and weight transfer. When you are under pressure or if you get over-hyped, big muscles typically don't let you down. Big muscles are important in tennis, but the smaller ones like the wrist play a big role as well. So I suspect that if you get over-amped, the little muscles will let you down and you will be spraying shots. The importance of accuracy in tennis is another factor along those same lines

 

[nyta2]

i've done several types of martials including muy thai, bjj, tkd, fma, etc... haven't competed formally in decades (eg. in tkd as a kid), but sparring in class is still a battle, and sometimes more stressful than a formal tourney (as you're fighting to improve or keep your unwritten "spot on the totem pole"' amongst training partners you will see daily).

it is important to have a "never give up" attitude, but it's important to stay calm but still at a highly energized level of alertness.
fighting, like tennis, still requires alot of focus on gathering data about my opponent, strategizing, and of course, executing (explosively) on my side... and having that awareness requires me to be mentally calm.
that said, in both fighting&tennis, how do you stay calm when a ball or punch/kick is coming at me faster than i'm comfortable with... practice nothing magical about that... no matter how calm or frenetic, it's hard to execute in a reactive state

Moratoglu was saying in a recent video: they talk about having fun playing tennis. A tennis match is a fight. You’re not supposed to have fun!

moratoglu's philosophy reminds me of saenchai... one of my favorite muy thai guys i love watching.... he's so calm&relaxed... looks like he's having alot of fun in the ring... yet when it's time to act, he does so with such smooth timing (he doesn't strike me as particularly or extaordinarily explosive (compared to his opponents)... mostly superb timing... which i imagine (from my own experience) requires a calm/clear mind):

i think his "fighting style" is what i'd want to emulate, but i imagine it required tens of thousands if not millions of reps to attaing that level of smooth-fighting.
in the boxing world... lomachenko is one of my fave examples of a "smooth" fighting style:

perhaps comparable in the tennis world is someone like fed, who always comes to mind as someone that is "smooth"

but back to the fighting styles question of the OP... when i think of a fighting style that is "energetic and aggressive"... i immediately think of guys like tyson & nadal (who is my fave), who seem to rely more on raw aggression to overwhelm opponents.

i used to be in the mindset of fight fight fight, aggression, never give up, etc... more like nadal, grind you down through attrition... but as i get wiser, or maybe just older (eg. not as fit as my 20-self).... my mindset is more deliberate... and i'm trying to be smoother, more precise and deliberate with what i'm trying to do with every shot (but hopefully not losing the never give up attitude, still trying to be explosive moving to contact and through execution)

 

[travlerajm]

Tennis is more fun when you and your opponent are laughing at each other’s winners.

 

[HunterST]

Geeze I m out of tune with the times. I tell my opponents great shot and do the racquet clap. And if they won I will tell them what they did great. If they lost I will tell them I got lucky on a few shots. Although I probably should just keep my trap shut on that one.

I am jealous of the guys who are incredibly even-tempered and humble not those who have better shots than me.

What I am working on in a match is trying to ditch a shot that is not working very quickly. I have immense reservoirs of stupidity. For example every time somebody puts a big serve into my back hand corner on the ad side I always end up slicing it wide. The stupid thing is I could fix that very easily by just aiming at cross court the worst it's going to happen is it will drop into the middle of the court.

I don't think these are mutually exclusive. I'm not saying to actually be combative.

The mindset I'm talking about is characterized mostly by confidence and also a confident sense that you are going to implement your game plan. That is in contrast to a nervous, timid mindset.

I suppose this all depends are your natural tendencies too. Some people might get too amped under pressure and overhit, while others, like me, get tight and play too passively.

 

[sureshs]

If you don't have the psychology for it and try to fake antagonism, it will only make you more stiff and less efficient.

 

[user92626]

that guy is a beast. He's just too much for his opponents even though he's smaller. So much confident.

How you approach your match depends on what you put in, or what you "wager". If you put in a lot of practice, effort to improve, pride into result, then you'll feel the weight of the match.

Before covid, I put (some) pride into my tennis and wagered lunch, etc, I definitely tried harder with my playing.

Today I just enjoy being out there and sometimes simply go through the motion of the match!

 

[LuckyR]

My number one problem in singles has always been my mental game. When I get nervous, I tend to get overly careful and meek. I play hoping my opponent will give it away.

Recently, I have had success by going into a match with the mindset I would have going into a fistfight (or a MMA match if you want to make it a little less toxic). That type of mindset is energetic, aggressive, and proactive.

What is your mindset when playing? Do you think you would benefit from having a fighting mindset?

Several things: first, tennis is inherently ego threatening, therefore feeling nervous is the default, not an unusual "weakness". That's why playing high consistancy tennis is very common in matchplay as it is ego protecting. This style, often called "pushing" is effective at lower levels, thus it is doubly popular. At higher levels, dealing with this mental stress allows one to play a more balanced (a mix of low and high consistancy shots) game, thus the importance of a strong Mental Game. If having an aggressive attitude leads to this balance, it is a good thing, OTOH if it leads to going for winners too often, it isn't.

A lesser appreciated detail is that an extremely low consistancy game (going for winners frequently) is also an ego soothing response to the natural stress of matchplay. One that is much less successful, especially at the lower levels.

 

[user92626]

Several things: first, tennis is inherently ego threatening, therefore feeling nervous is the default, not an unusual "weakness". That's why playing high consistancy tennis is very common in matchplay as it is ego protecting. This style, often called "pushing" is effective at lower levels, thus it is doubly popular. At higher levels, dealing with this mental stress allows one to play a more balanced (a mix of low and high consistancy shots) game, thus the importance of a strong Mental Game. If having an aggressive attitude leads to this balance, it is a good thing, OTOH if it leads to going for winners too often, it isn't.

A lesser appreciated detail is that an extremely low consistancy game (going for winners frequently) is also an ego soothing response to the natural stress of matchplay. One that is much less successful, especially at the lower levels.

"tennis is inherently ego threatening" like one MUST feel the hurt or the effect on his ego? Or what do you mean?

I know many players who don't give a d@mn about match results. They just like to play, probably enjoy it like many people enjoy the gym.

I am also starting to enjoy tennis process. I kinda identify who the bullsh*tter are and simply ignore them. There's one who tends to bash my tennis -- most of the time it's not funny because it's totally nonsense -- and I just ignore him. LOL.

 

[HuusHould]

Being too aggressive on the big points is another form of choking, but I try to err on the side of being too aggressive (with big margins) on the big points (as opposed to too passive). It's maybe a bit of bluff, trying to give the impression to my opponent that the pressure isn't affecting me. The pressure points can present an opportunity to attack as your opponent nay be prone to becoming more conservative. But it requires you to relax, (even defending is generally more effective when relaxed).

I think you have to get used to pressure in practice as much as you can,as Pauly Wardlaw among others advocates, so you're a bit desensitized to it when you play a competitive match. At the end of the day you have to remind yourself it's just a game and there'll always be more opportunities to succeed/win. I read somewhere that you have to completely accept the possibility of losing before you step onto the court.


Once you start getting tight and tentative on the court it's hard to redress. When I played comp it was the complete opposite to what you're suggesting, my main job was to calm myself down. I'd do progressive muscle relaxation for at least 10 min before playing. I'm naturally a defensive player, but I drilled a lot of getting to the net and finishing points, so I knew I could do it if need be. It's all related to the Yerkes/Dodson optimal arousal graph (or the inverted U). Too little or too much arousal (For the given sport) and your performance is likely to be suboptimal.

 

[socallefty]

I don’t think it is good to think of a match as a fight.

- If you think it is a fight, you’ll be afraid of losing as no one wants to lose a fight. So, you’ll get tight late in sets and when you are down a break or two.
- To play any sport including tennis at a high level, sports psychologists will tell you that you have to stay at optimal stimulation range for as much of the match as possible - don’t go out of range either high or low for too long as you won’t perform well. If you get too amped up, you will have an emotional trough after a few minutes and your play will suffer.
- Serves and Returns are amongst the most important shots that determine the point patterns and outcomes of most matches. You can‘t do both those shots well unless you are very relaxed which is tough to be if you think you are in a fight.

I prefer to think of every match as another chance to touch my ceiling as the best tennis player I can be and not a direct contest with the opponent. I do think of tactics and strategies to beat my opponent before the match and during changeovers as that is part of touching my ceiling as a player. If I stay focused and stay close to my ceiling, my chance of winning against opponents at my level and below is very high in my experience. I get coaching and practice often in addition to playing matches almost daily in an attempt to raise my ceiling steadily and that’s how I will get my chance to beat better opponents over time.

Good competitors in life and sport have self-discipline to try and do their best while staying intense during each point - for them, fighting hard is a life philosophy rather than just a tactic used in a match. You’ll find that most good competitors in tennis are like that in all the sports they play and usually in their professional life too, they have a desire to work hard, prepare well and excel.

I think a lot of rec players have never played other sports at a decent level before taking up tennis as adults and they think they have to do something different emotionally when they play a match. Guys who are used to playing a lot of sports as kids and have been coached in other sports (especially team sports) know how to stay focused and disciplined when they compete in a tennis match without having emotional ups and downs. Plus they know that if you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.

 

[LuckyR]

"tennis is inherently ego threatening" like one MUST feel the hurt or the effect on his ego? Or what do you mean?

I know many players who don't give a d@mn about match results. They just like to play, probably enjoy it like many people enjoy the gym.

I am also starting to enjoy tennis process. I kinda identify who the bullsh*tter are and simply ignore them. There's one who tends to bash my tennis -- most of the time it's not funny because it's totally nonsense -- and I just ignore him. LOL.

When I am describing tennis, I mean matchplay tennis, not rallying. And yes, if you play matchplay tennis and care about the results, you will feel stress on your ego, because unlike, say basketball, your winning a point equals your opponent losing a point. OTOH, if I make a basket, the other team hasn't lost anything. If my team is ahead by 30 points and there's 2 minutes left in the second half, we're going to win, regardless of our skill level or how hard we try. In tennis, if you are behind 0-6, 0-5 0-40, you can win, the other guy has to take that last point from you and if he can't, he will lose.

Ah, yes, the Kyrgios dodge. We all know folks and their excuses: "oh I don't train", or "I don't care about match results". Tennis is full of folks like that. Why? Because their egos can't handle the stress of the cumulative loss of points, games and sets.

 

[pencilcheck]

haha, to be honest, at the level below 5.5, to win is to just be technically better than the other opponent, no emotion needed, then you win.

 

[sovertennis]

Tennis is more fun when you and your opponent are laughing at each other’s winners.

Well said. I prefer to feel like I'm dancing with my opponent than fighting him. Once a player becomes angry their anger only seeks to find more ways to prolong that anger. There's already too much anger in our everyday lives. Bringing it to the tennis court isn't productive, it's laughable.

 

[Power Player]

I dont really think of it as a fight. A fight is a very adrenaline charged explosion, regardless of training level. Ever fought for over 5 minutes? It's incredibly exhausting.

Tennis is a marathon. You have to manage your emotions over the course of 1-2 hours. I like to have fun since this is a recreational sport. I focus on things I can control - like keeping my head still and hitting clean, stuff like that.

The issue is people get outcome dependent and start playing tight because they don't want to lose. Thats really not fun. You want to play loose and hit your shots and you want those shots to go in. If you focus on what you can control during the point (like you would do in practice), you may find your mentality loosens up a lot.

I am more "intense" between points in terms of keeping myself focused. I always tell myself the score and I always have a phrase like "stay aggressive" that I repeat. But approaching tennis like a fight means you are about to empty your reserves way too fast, imo.

 

[user92626]

Alot of times I approach tennis matches like they are church sessions.

I pray a lot.
I invoke God's name, too.

 

[FiddlerDog]

You must trust your strokes.
That requires reps in practice.
The match is just a demonstration of your practice.
Resorting to meekness speaks volumes about your lack of practice and confidence.

 

[slipgrip93]

I think at best tennis is physically and slightly or superficially kind of like a sword/club 'fighting' and "melee" martial arts (lacross - polearms) using and training some similar muscle groups and slightly similar to their movements and forms. And maybe also closer to a sport like baseball, but not a body contact sport like football, rugby , etc., and you're trying to avoid physically injuring yourself, and also the opponent, i.e. not trying to whack the ball at the opponent. It's more about outlasting the opponent's stamina, and also slipping, outmaneuvering past the defenses to a bunch of possible targets. And then the levels of "intensity" and the self-pacing/control, sustained endurance and competitive mentality could be more like running a marathon or a road bike race. And as mentioned, real (facing) fights don't last long.

 

[Shroud]

i've done several types of martials including muy thai, bjj, tkd, fma, etc... haven't competed formally in decades (eg. in tkd as a kid), but sparring in class is still a battle, and sometimes more stressful than a formal tourney (as you're fighting to improve or keep your unwritten "spot on the totem pole"' amongst training partners you will see daily).

it is important to have a "never give up" attitude, but it's important to stay calm but still at a highly energized level of alertness.
fighting, like tennis, still requires alot of focus on gathering data about my opponent, strategizing, and of course, executing (explosively) on my side... and having that awareness requires me to be mentally calm.
that said, in both fighting&tennis, how do you stay calm when a ball or punch/kick is coming at me faster than i'm comfortable with... practice nothing magical about that... no matter how calm or frenetic, it's hard to execute in a reactive state


moratoglu's philosophy reminds me of saenchai... one of my favorite muy thai guys i love watching.... he's so calm&relaxed... looks like he's having alot of fun in the ring... yet when it's time to act, he does so with such smooth timing (he doesn't strike me as particularly or extaordinarily explosive (compared to his opponents)... mostly superb timing... which i imagine (from my own experience) requires a calm/clear mind):

i think his "fighting style" is what i'd want to emulate, but i imagine it required tens of thousands if not millions of reps to attaing that level of smooth-fighting.
in the boxing world... lomachenko is one of my fave examples of a "smooth" fighting style:

perhaps comparable in the tennis world is someone like fed, who always comes to mind as someone that is "smooth"

but back to the fighting styles question of the OP... when i think of a fighting style that is "energetic and aggressive"... i immediately think of guys like tyson & nadal (who is my fave), who seem to rely more on raw aggression to overwhelm opponents.

i used to be in the mindset of fight fight fight, aggression, never give up, etc... more like nadal, grind you down through attrition... but as i get wiser, or maybe just older (eg. not as fit as my 20-self).... my mindset is more deliberate... and i'm trying to be smoother, more precise and deliberate with what i'm trying to do with every shot (but hopefully not losing the never give up attitude, still trying to be explosive moving to contact and through execution)

Why the arm feathers?

 

[nyta2]

Why the arm feathers?

i never wore them... but the gist of the history i recall... is that they are like a lucky rabbit's foot...

 

[HunterST]

I don’t think it is good to think of a match as a fight.

- If you think it is a fight, you’ll be afraid of losing as no one wants to lose a fight. So, you’ll get tight late in sets and when you are down a break or two.
- To play any sport including tennis at a high level, sports psychologists will tell you that you have to stay at optimal stimulation range for as much of the match as possible - don’t go out of range either high or low for too long as you won’t perform well. If you get too amped up, you will have an emotional trough after a few minutes and your play will suffer.
- Serves and Returns are amongst the most important shots that determine the point patterns and outcomes of most matches. You can‘t do both those shots well unless you are very relaxed which is tough to be if you think you are in a fight.

I prefer to think of every match as another chance to touch my ceiling as the best tennis player I can be and not a direct contest with the opponent. I do think of tactics and strategies to beat my opponent before the match and during changeovers as that is part of touching my ceiling as a player. If I stay focused and stay close to my ceiling, my chance of winning against opponents at my level and below is very high in my experience. I get coaching and practice often in addition to playing matches almost daily in an attempt to raise my ceiling steadily and that’s how I will get my chance to beat better opponents over time.

Good competitors in life and sport have self-discipline to try and do their best while staying intense during each point - for them, fighting hard is a life philosophy rather than just a tactic used in a match. You’ll find that most good competitors in tennis are like that in all the sports they play and usually in their professional life too, they have a desire to work hard, prepare well and excel.

I think a lot of rec players have never played other sports at a decent level before taking up tennis as adults and they think they have to do something different emotionally when they play a match. Guys who are used to playing a lot of sports as kids and have been coached in other sports (especially team sports) know how to stay focused and disciplined when they compete in a tennis match without having emotional ups and downs. Plus they know that if you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.

I really like the idea of thinking of a match as a chance to play your best tennis! That's a great way to reframe it away from result-minded thinking. I'll have to try that.

Yeah, the fight mentality metaphor breaks down if you get too aggressive with it. The mindset I'm thinking of is really all about energetic confidence. I think you could definitely add that mindset to the goal of playing your best tennis and maybe have a winning recipe.

 

[Goof]

Tennis is a combo of a street fight and a chess match.

 

[pencilcheck]

i treat tennis match like a street fight, you simply can't think about your own stroke, it has to be natural and my attention is always on the ball/opponent.