Best way to learn tennis on my own?

steamie

New User
Basically the title. I'm not completely opposed to paying for private tennis lessons, but the money adds up and I am wary about how competent and worthwhile most lessons are anyways (thinking of that one Mark Sansait video on the topic). I'm looking for something more structured and comprehensive than just searching and clicking on random free YouTube lessons and hoping for the best. Are there any YouTube playlists or paid lesson suites that are verifiably worth while? For example, I know that Essential Tennis and Intuitive Tennis have lesson packs for sale, is any of this stuff worth it? I'm looking for very technical lessons and very clear suggestions for the types of training schedules and drills I should be aiming for. Basically looking for super structured and detailed lesson sequences with substance. I realize this question has probably been asked countless of times in this forum but alas... I want some definitive contemporary suggestions. Thanks.
 

PocketAces

New User
There's a lot of online instruction out there. Some of the ones I've looked at include FYB (I don't like his style), Essential Tennis, Jeff Salzenstein and FeelTennis. I'm sure others can chip in with their experiences with other online instructors.

Some of this depends on your current playing level. If you're coming to the game as an adult student without much of a sporting background, FeelTennis is pretty good for building serve and groundstrokes. He understands the challenges that adult students face and he provides exercises and progressions that help adults develop their kinesthetic sense as opposed to getting overly descriptive and technical. I think Essential Tennis and Jeff Salzenstein have fairly comprehensive libraries of instruction, although I think they're on a monthly subscription model. Salzenstein is a little more advanced.

A good coach will accelerate your learning because they can give you instant feedback and they understand which areas will yield the most improvement (as opposed to getting lost in technical minutiae; something that adult students tend to do). In the absence of a coach you'll need to self-correct which will sometimes lead you down blind allies.

Hopefully you have a hitting partner that is similarly committed to improvement and willing to drill with you.
 

PKorda

Professional
It's very tough to learn tennis from watching videos, I totally get not wanting to pay a ton for lessons, I'd try to find clinics you can join and/or maybe do some group lessons. Try to ask around to find someone in your area that's competent.
 

Mountain Ghost

Professional
Sorry ... it doesn't really work like that ... as in through smartly structured (or even generally "intelligent") remote programs for developing good tennis technique. The free stuff is just too all over the place ... and the subscription stuff doesn't take into account YOUR UNIQUE needs. While maybe not technically "incorrect" ... "they" simply cannot lead you to identifying ... or to correcting ... the unique CORE problem(s) within YOUR strokes and overall performance ... which only a gifted on-court tennis pro can do.

I taught tennis classes at a large university for a number of years ... and while I could cover fundamentals during a group session ... it wasn't until each student got their own little "mini-private" ... that I was able to identify each one's individual issues ... fixes ... and pertinent visualizations ... which I would have them write down and read a number of times each day before the next class.

You don't need weeklies ... if you find a pro who can just give you that customized checklist in one ... or maybe two ... hour-long sessions.

~ MG
 

ServeBot

Rookie
Basically the title. I'm not completely opposed to paying for private tennis lessons, but the money adds up and I am wary about how competent and worthwhile most lessons are anyways (thinking of that one Mark Sansait video on the topic). I'm looking for something more structured and comprehensive than just searching and clicking on random free YouTube lessons and hoping for the best. Are there any YouTube playlists or paid lesson suites that are verifiably worth while? For example, I know that Essential Tennis and Intuitive Tennis have lesson packs for sale, is any of this stuff worth it? I'm looking for very technical lessons and very clear suggestions for the types of training schedules and drills I should be aiming for. Basically looking for super structured and detailed lesson sequences with substance. I realize this question has probably been asked countless of times in this forum but alas... I want some definitive contemporary suggestions. Thanks.

Record yourself playing and see how you differ from the pros. Try to correct, rinse/repeat. That’s the best way to improve if you don’t want to pay for coaching.
 

eah123

Professional
I taught myself using YouTube videos. Feel tennis has the best beginner stuff. When you get a little better, Essential Tennis, Top Tennis Training, Intuitive Tennis, Tennis Evolution.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
lesson packs for sale, is any of this stuff worth it? I'm looking for very technical lessons and very clear suggestions for the types of training schedules and drills I should be aiming for. .

Nikola is the best instructor and was a top ranked Div I player and could have gone pro and easily broken Top 500, at least. Take a private online lesson/video analysis and then go out and implement what he says.

Watch Nikola transform a player's weak slice in 10 minutes.

 
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I don't know if it's possible, any incorrect form you have will be more deeply ingrained into muscle memory w/out an objective eye looking at, and then correcting, your movement. How your movement looks to the trained eye could be completely different from what you think you are doing and you may not be aware of how far off something could be, or if you are lucky, what little correction should be made to perform much better. But then those corrections, large or small, would have to be reinforced w/repetition w/a pro to insure you don't slip back into old habits w/out knowing it. If you become a top level 4.0 or 4.5 by learning on you own, may the Lord bless you. :);)(y)
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Some people are quite good at picking up athletic skills, like tennis skills, from videos and other online resources. Many are not. I've had quite a few adult players who have come to me, having learned primarily online. Some were surprisingly good but often had some flaws that needed to be ironed out. Many would come to me with very serious flaws. They were under the mistaken belief that they were doing it just like the videos. They were not.

I would show them what I believed the online source / video was probably trying to show them. I would then show them what they, the student, were actually doing. We then worked out a way to correct their mistakes.

If you decide to learn primarily from online sources, be sure that you periodically take a lesson with a reputable or knowledgeable coach, in person, to make sure that you are on the right track and not developing bad habits that may be difficult to change once they have crystallized.

I did not learn to play tennis until 20/21 years old -- when I was in college. Learned a lot of my tennis in college tennis classes -- usually from college team coaches or coaches who professionally taught tennis on the outside (as well as teaching 1 or 2 college classes). Try to avoid the college instructors whose expertise is in a different sport and only know enough about tennis to be dangerous.

I was actually a very good visual learner. I picked up quite a bit from just watching decent college team players, professional players and other high level players around me. We had some video sources 40-50 yrs ago but not a lot. Did Not always get always get as much individual attention as I wanted in a group class. So I would frequently ask questions that were relevant or pertinent to me.

Disclaimer: I only took one private lesson in my life. Definitely got something out of it but, as I said, I was a good visual learner / mimic. OTOH, I have given hundreds of private lessons to others -- mostly in the past three decades. I believe that 98% of those students got something substantial out of it.
 
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pencilcheck

Hall of Fame
Find a coach, let him help spot you and do drills that you have trouble with. Treat him like a ball machine that can give you constant feedback.

If the coach can't communicate their point to you across, and you are not improving in 3-4 months, then I would consider talking to your coach for change, or if it still doesn't work out then try a different one.

But ultimately, it is you who is responsible to find out what you need and lack. A lot of people are ok with hitting rally balls against easy balls with pace.

If you really want challenge, have your coach do weird junk balls and you practice on those instead.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
@steamie
There's a lot of online instruction out there. Some of the ones I've looked at include FYB (I don't like his style), Essential Tennis, Jeff Salzenstein and FeelTennis. I'm sure others can chip in with their experiences with other online instructors.

Some of this depends on your current playing level. If you're coming to the game as an adult student without much of a sporting background, FeelTennis is pretty good for building serve and groundstrokes. He understands the challenges that adult students face and he provides exercises and progressions that help adults develop their kinesthetic sense as opposed to getting overly descriptive and technical. I think Essential Tennis and Jeff Salzenstein have fairly comprehensive libraries of instruction, although I think they're on a monthly subscription model. Salzenstein is a little more advanced.

A good coach will accelerate your learning because they can give you instant feedback and they understand which areas will yield the most improvement (as opposed to getting lost in technical minutiae; something that adult students tend to do). In the absence of a coach you'll need to self-correct which will sometimes lead you down blind allies.

Hopefully you have a hitting partner that is similarly committed to improvement and willing to drill with you.

Jeff is one of my favorites. But, as you indicate, probably a bit too advanced for most novices. There is a lot of decent stuff out there on the Wild West Web. A lot of it is even free. Just have to wade thru all that is there to find approaches that resonate / work for you.

Will Hamilton of FYB was quite popular here on TT 12-14 years ago. But then he monetized his stuff. Many here were not too enamored with his approach. However, he did post quite a bit of good stuff on YT and here about 14 years ago. I particularly liked his racket throwing idea that he had posted for a short time. Ask me about it if you would like more feedback on my implementation of his idea.

I particularly liked Will H's serve progression that he posted on his own site and on YT back then. It was originally on a YouTube channel named, FYB2007. Some of that is now under Fuzzy Yellow Balls on YT. Some great info to be gleaned from that serve progression. I think he had at least 9 steps / videos in the progression.

Here is a sample:


 
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SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
After some racket throwing and going thru the FYB serve progression, I'd suggest the following serve progression from Ryan of High Altitude Tennis. I would also suggest looking at Jeff's Half-Grip, Half-Serve video.

 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Also a huge fan of Kevin Garlinton's stuff. I believe his YT channel started as, Forehand Domination. Eventually, he started posting (with his wife, Megan) under the name, Total Tennis Domination.

After he had posted for a while on his YT channel, Kevin joined Ian W (and Megan) on Essential Tennis. Kevin & Megan were at ET for quite a few years before branching off on their own again.

 

Steady Eddy

Legend
I play doubles with a group of self-taught people, (I think). One total beginner tried to join but she quit because you need to keep the ball in play a little bit. So if you just want to play social doubles you'll need some practice, but probably don't need lessons. Find a backboard to hit against. Practice groundstrokes, (letting it bounce), and volleys, (not letting it bounce). Practice some serving, and after about two months, you're good to go!
 
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FiddlerDog

Hall of Fame
If internet lessons worked, everyone here would be a 5.0
In reality, the best players have not even heard of internet lessons.
Find 10 college tennis players, and ask them how much internet lessons helped them.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
If internet lessons worked, everyone here would be a 5.0
In reality, the best players have not even heard of internet lessons.
Find 10 college tennis players, and ask them how much internet lessons helped them.


False premise. Even with expensive, elite training, most people will never attain anything close to a 5.0 ntrp level. Only a small % of the population will ever surpass a 3.5 (or 4.0) level. Most simply do not possess adequate athleticism. They do not have the hand eye coordination, the reaction time, optimal muscle fiber types, lung capacity, flexibility, agility, analytical skills, etc.

Internet lessons are a fairly recent phenomenon and have not been around all that long. While some have been around for more than a decade, many have not.

Most pros received their training before internet lessons were around or were all that common. But that is really irrelevant anyway since professional level tennis and D1 college tennis is not really the target audience for internet lessons.

While some ppl may achieve a 4.0 or 4.5 level (or higher) primarily with internet instruction, most will not. This does not make them invalid. These lessons may help players to rise 0.5 or even a full level but, by themselves they will not turn 3.5 students into elite players. Higher level play will still require guided coaching and a lot of training / hard work.

The OP is in his late 20s already. Doubt that college level or pro competition is a goal. If he can reach for a high intermediate level, that might be a more suitable goal.
 

FiddlerDog

Hall of Fame
Higher level play will still require guided coaching and a lot of training / hard work.

Internet lessons do nothing to improve your tennis, regardless of your goal.
Hire a coach and drill correct strokes and play matches. That is how you learn tennis.
The worst players are those who watch the most internet lessons. LOL
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Internet lessons do nothing to improve your tennis, regardless of your goal.
Hire a coach and drill correct strokes and play matches. That is how you learn tennis.
The worst players are those who watch the most internet lessons. LOL
I know from experience that you are wrong. I've had a number of students come to me for lessons. They had already gotten quite far, primarily from studying videos & learning from online sources. Even tho they had some flaws in their serve or some other strokes, some have appeared to have more right than wrong with their tennis.

Granted, these were ppl that were already fairly athletic -- higher level than the average person to start off. I went into more detail in post #11.

I have picked up a few details myself from videos & other online sources. Insights on how to execute certain things and insights or alternatives on teaching others more effectively.
 

Arak

Legend
I’m going to sound odd here, but you learn tennis essentially by playing tennis. The more you play, the better you will get. Your body will tell you what works and what doesn’t. Your strokes will be more natural to your own biomechanics. This process takes longer than with a coach, but unless you’re willing to pay for a really good coach, most coaches will only be willing to teach you the most generic stuff. Repetition is the key. Practice practice practice. Don’t worry if your style isn’t very orthodox. Many top 100 players have unorthodox styles, like Hsu Wei and Medvedev.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
I’m going to sound odd here, but you learn tennis essentially by playing tennis. The more you play, the better you will get. Your body will tell you what works and what doesn’t. Your strokes will be more natural to your own biomechanics. This process takes longer than with a coach, but unless you’re willing to pay for a really good coach, most coaches will only be willing to teach you the most generic stuff. Repetition is the key. Practice practice practice. Don’t worry if your style isn’t very orthodox. Many top 100 players have unorthodox styles, like Hsu Wei and Medvedev.
You and a small % of the population can learn that way. Some players who are self-taught might get to a very high intermediate level. However, many who are self-taught never get beyond a low intermediate level.

Not only do they have goofy-looking strokes but some of those strokes make them highly susceptible to overuse injuries. Not everyone's body /brain is good at telling them what works and what doesn't. The more they play, the more they crystallize substandard, potentially dangerous, habits

Some pros might have unorthodox or suboptimal strokes but have achieved a high level despite them. Most players are not athletic or talented enuff to make those weird strokes work for them. And some injuries from these weird strokes can cost dearly -- to the body & the wallet.

I would not put much faith in "natural" biomechanics for the average player. Perhaps you are above average.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Basically the title. I'm not completely opposed to paying for private tennis lessons, but the money adds up and I am wary about how competent and worthwhile most lessons are anyways (thinking of that one Mark Sansait video on the topic). I'm looking for something more structured and comprehensive than just searching and clicking on random free YouTube lessons and hoping for the best. Are there any YouTube playlists or paid lesson suites that are verifiably worth while? For example, I know that Essential Tennis and Intuitive Tennis have lesson packs for sale, is any of this stuff worth it? I'm looking for very technical lessons and very clear suggestions for the types of training schedules and drills I should be aiming for. Basically looking for super structured and detailed lesson sequences with substance. I realize this question has probably been asked countless of times in this forum but alas... I want some definitive contemporary suggestions. Thanks.

Just use the thousands of free videos. No need to spend a dollar.
 

Arak

Legend
You and a small % of the population can learn that way. Some players who are self-taught might get to a very high intermediate level. However, many who are self-taught never get beyond a low intermediate level.

Not only do they have goofy-looking strokes but some of those strokes make them highly susceptible to overuse injuries. Not everyone's body /brain is good at telling them what works and what doesn't. The more they play, the more they crystallize substandard, potentially dangerous, habits

Some pros might have unorthodox or suboptimal strokes but have achieved a high level despite them. Most players are not athletic or talented enuff to make those weird strokes work for them. And some injuries from these weird strokes can cost dearly -- to the body & the wallet.

I would not put much faith in "natural" biomechanics for the average player. Perhaps you are above average.
As a matter of fact, I still have a coach until today and I’m over 50. I practice once a week with this coach, but to be honest, I have not learned much from any coach. I learn much more while playing matches against other players. With the coach, I hit hundreds of balls in one session, and it’s actually the repetition that refines my strokes. When the coach sees there is something wrong with my backhand, he keeps on feeding me balls to my backhand until I figure out and correct what’s wrong by myself. My coach has his passive style of teaching. He doesn’t give a lot of verbal instructions but we know each other very well and he doesn’t need to talk. That’s why I say repetition is the key. I admit that this might not work for everyone. Some people like to be “taught”, and wouldn’t learn otherwise. I’m just reacting to the OP as he’s asking if he can learn by himself.
 
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SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
As a matter of fact, I still have a coach until today and I’m over 50. I practice once a week with this coach, but to be honest, I have not learned much from any coach. I learn much more while playing matches against other players. With the coach, I hit hundreds of balls in one session, and it’s actually the repetition that refines my strokes. When the coach sees there is something wrong with my backhand, he keeps on feeding me balls to my backhand until I figure out and correct what’s wrong by myself. My coach has his passive style of teaching. He doesn’t give a lot of verbal instructions but we know each other very well and he doesn’t need to talk. That’s why I say repetition is the key. I admit that this might not work for everyone. Some people like to be “taught”, and wouldn’t learn otherwise. I’m just reacting to the OP as he’s asking if he can learn by himself.
Pushing 70 myself and have been playing for much of 5 decades. Have reinvented my strokes a few times (mini-overhaul). I found that the strokes I learned in the early 70s were old fashioned in the late '80s. So, with the help of a couple of college team coaches, changed my strokes in the late '80s and early 90s. Have made further significant changes in the past 15+ years but, nearly all my evolution / changes in the past 25 years, have been pretty much on my own. From research, observation, videos, thought experimentation, etc.

I still teach a combination of modern strokes & footwork patterns along with some classic (80s/90s) stances & strokes. Most of the classic stuff I teach is done to increase versatility and minimize repetitive injuries (more common in modern stances & strokes).
 

Arak

Legend
Pushing 70 myself and have been playing for much of 5 decades. Have reinvented my strokes a few times (mini-overhaul). I found that the strokes I learned in the early 70s were old fashioned in the late '80s. So, with the help of a couple of college team coaches, changed my strokes in the late '80s and early 90s. Have made further significant changes in the past 15+ years but, nearly all my evolution / changes in the past 25 years, have been pretty much on my own. From research, observation, videos, thought experimentation, etc.

I still teach a combination of modern strokes & footwork patterns along with some classic (80s/90s) stances & strokes. Most of the classic stuff I teach is done to increase versatility and minimize repetitive injuries (more common in modern stances & strokes).
Well, to be frank, if someone has access to a coach like yourself, it would be crazy not to take this advantage. Most coaches I know are nowhere as dedicated. I myself took up tennis in the late 90s and my strokes and stances still reflect that era. I was already in my late 20s and those body mechanics stuck on me, crystallized as you say. I have slowly and painfully evolved to more modern looking strokes by watching tennis matches, and by observing younger players at my club. I still have an eastern grip, but my forehand take back looks more atp these days, and my backhand trajectory resembles more that of Thiem or Wawrinka than that of Edberg that my first coach taught me. I still favor the old style closed or semi closed stance as an old habit that dies hard :)
 

Enga

Hall of Fame
I think recording yourself is the best way, recording yourself playing matches too, not just practice. Watch other players, then watch yourself, try and see what you're doing wrong compared to good players. You really have to analyze and think about what you're doing wrong, especially if you start to feel any sort of pain then that's when you take a massive step back and take a look at yourself. In my opinion no sort of injury should be tolerated, especially for us rec players who don't HAVE to play. Teaching yourself can be really fun.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
When the coach sees there is something wrong with my backhand, he keeps on feeding me balls to my backhand until I figure out and correct what’s wrong by myself. My coach has his passive style of teaching. He doesn’t give a lot of verbal instructions but we know each other very well and he doesn’t need to talk.
Sounds like you have a hitting partner that you pay, rather than a coach. Good coaches will be more active in letting you know what needs to be fixed and then designing drills for fix it. The better the coach, the more direct the feedback and the more customized the drills to improve weaknesses or make strengths a bigger weapon.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
As a matter of fact, I still have a coach until today and I’m over 50. I practice once a week with this coach, but to be honest, I have not learned much from any coach. I learn much more while playing matches against other players. With the coach, I hit hundreds of balls in one session, and it’s actually the repetition that refines my strokes. When the coach sees there is something wrong with my backhand, he keeps on feeding me balls to my backhand until I figure out and correct what’s wrong by myself. My coach has his passive style of teaching. He doesn’t give a lot of verbal instructions but we know each other very well and he doesn’t need to talk. That’s why I say repetition is the key. I admit that this might not work for everyone. Some people like to be “taught”, and wouldn’t learn otherwise. I’m just reacting to the OP as he’s asking if he can learn by himself.
That’s not a good coach.
 
You can learn some things on YouTube and you can learn more when you add shooting video of yourself to know if you're doing what you *think* you're doing.
For my forehand stroke, it also took hitting thousands of balls before I began to understand the feel and look of "racquet lag", grip tension, the swing path, etc. Essential tennis and other YouTube channels provide great progressions, though I've erred by moving to the next progression before I was really ready.
Bottom line for me:
1. there's no quick easy path to proficiency in tennis (or just about anything else).
2. Re Instruction from YouTube channels: you always have the resource of comparing video of yourself to the channel's video. If you live far from a tennis *hub* (I do) YouTube is pretty much your most valuable and accessible resource
3. No matter where you get your instruction, you won't often remember more than one or two tips a day.
4. Shoot video and view it right after shooting
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
I detest group lessons. Read the book Authentic Tennis first.
I disliked teaching group lessons. It did not fit well with my teaching style / skills. Will leave the group stuff to others. Some of the large classes that I was forced to teach included groups that had about 40% to 50% of eager students willing to learn. But felt like I was a glorified babysitter for the rest of them.

But that said, I had taken some small group lessons, as an advanced novice, thru a well-designed Parks and Rec program. Also took some larger group classes at several local community colleges. Primarily run by the college team coaches. I was able to pick up quite a bit thru those classes.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
I think that the scientific approach will become dominant.

High speed video
Biomechanics
Kinesiology
Sensors for acceleration, pressure and other measurements.
History of stroke techniques development. Nothing beats the history of internal shoulder rotation for the serve and probably for the throw also! Finally set straight in 1995!
New details of the Sarcomere for Actin, Myosin and especially Titin.
Others .....

The scientific approach is a structure that always seeks new information, incorporates it and keeps evolving, always better.

Currently, I think most stroke techniques are created and developed by the best players that try new things, get some positive results and pursue it farther.
 
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SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
I think that the scientific approach will become dominant.

High speed video
Biomechanics
Kinesiology
Sensors for acceleration, pressure and other measurements.
History of stroke techniques development. Nothing beats the history of internal shoulder rotation for the serve and probably for the throw also! Finally set straight in 1995!
New details of the Sarcomere for Actin, Myosin and especially Titin.
Others .....

The scientific approach is a structure that always seeks new information, incorporates it and keeps evolving, always better.

Currently, I think most stroke techniques are created and developed by the best players that try new things, get some positive results and pursue it farther.
Yes, absolutely.

For experts, sports academies and savvy coaches / trainers, that is. Not so much for your average tennis player. Not even the elites. Not sure that any of The Big Three know very much about this sort of stuff. But some of their coaches and many of their trainers might. Or they know who does.

Most people will shut down if you throw too much physics, chemistry, anatomy / kinesiology, biomechanics, 3D data, etc at them. Most tennis players need someone who can translate all that detailed info and technical mumbo-jumbo into relatable language or into a meaningful demonstration for them. A well chosen analogy will often go much further than a wealth of technical data.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Yes, absolutely.

For experts, sports academies and savvy coaches / trainers, that is. Not so much for your average tennis player. Not even the elites. Not sure that any of The Big Three know very much about this sort of stuff. But some of their coaches and many of their trainers might. Or they know who does.

Most people will shut down if you throw too much physics, chemistry, anatomy / kinesiology, biomechanics, 3D data, etc at them. Most tennis players need someone who can translate all that detailed info and technical mumbo-jumbo into relatable language or into a meaningful demonstration for them. A well chosen analogy will often go much further than a wealth of technical data.

The story of internal shoulder rotation gave me my approach.

In the 1970s, I was reading everything that I could find about tennis strokes. ISR was not mentioned.

In the 1980s, badminton researchers relying on high speed video, at a conference, presented material stating that the badminton smash was driven largely by internal shoulder rotation. They mentioned that the tennis serve was also driven by significant internal shoulder rotation.

In the 1990s, tennis researchers, using 3D motion capture systems confirmed that it was the joint motion of ISR that provided more racket head speed than any other joint motion at impact.

In 2011, I learned and understood ISR in a thread on the forum. It felt like a cold wet towel smack to my face. Missing the truth for about 35 years, I understand that the truth is what I want. I am aware that I write what I would have wanted to hear in 1975. In 1975, I was very interested and motivated to learn about the tennis serve. I was reading tennis books and trying to squeeze the truth out of them. One sentence would have been enough.....

After 2011, I realized that stroke descriptions were being much more clearly discussed by biomechanists and tennis researchers. But on the forum, in instructional videos, even the ISR confirmed in 1995 was being hidden by a communication system that was based on using tennis terms that hid the truth.

I think that there is a reason for going after what is true in a scientific way. It seems to have always done well when applied to any subject.

On this forum over the years, there have been many threads on the kick serve. There is some research by Cross and Lindsay that indicates the racket should be tilted closed (my estimate 15 d.) at impact for the kick serve. There are just a few observations that I have been able to find to back up the racket closed tilt. Is the closed racket tilt for the kick serve true or false? If readers miss that answer for their next 35 years, should they only discover the answer by accident or should they know the truth today? What is true is very important and is missing or hidden in a lot of tennis stroke descriptions. Not so for the scientific descriptions, and they are very readable.

An interested and motivated reader should see the above issue as simple and important. The true-false answer can be observed for a kick serve in a video from the right camera angle.
 
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slipgrip93

Professional
For example, I know that Essential Tennis and Intuitive Tennis have lesson packs for sale, is any of this stuff worth it? I'm looking for very technical lessons and very clear suggestions for the types of training schedules and drills I should be aiming for. Basically looking for super structured and detailed lesson sequences with substance.

I think Intuitive Tennis has good free videos. What you could do is try a tennis teaching yt channel "playlists" page, so it's less random than just picking any yt video. And then pick and go through the free videos on that playlist page. And then try incorporating the ideas on the court or with the racquet on a shadow swing. Maybe a few months of doing this trying the ideas on the court with someone, or on a wall. Once you get familiar enough with all those types of strokes mentioned in the video, probably having tried the swings thousands of times where your arm muscles and body are much more acclimated and adapted to the movements, then you could see if you want to go for paid course sets, or video analysis or private coaching.

For an anecdote. When I was 10, my mother took me and my brother to tennis "lessons" with a local "yellow pages" advertised teacher/coach. And wow, the lessons were so lousy and his "corrections" were so vague and unhelpful. Just seeing "Intuitive Tennis" guy's free videos was like 10x better than anything I recall with that ineffectual coach and our sessions. I was discouraged or disinterested and quit tennis soon after for many years until my 20's. Also better than "group" classes when I did a tennis class at a community college.
 
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yossarian

Professional
@SystemicAnomaly

The story of internal shoulder rotation gave me my approach.

In the 1970s, I was reading everything that I could find about tennis strokes. ISR was not mentioned.

In the 1980s, badminton researchers relying on high speed video, at a conference, presented material stating that the badminton smash was driven largely by internal shoulder rotation. They mentioned that the tennis serve was also driven by significant internal shoulder rotation.

In the 1990s, tennis researchers, using 3D motion capture systems confirmed that it was the joint motion of ISR that provided more racket head speed than any other joint motion at impact.

In 2011, I learned and understood ISR in a thread on the forum. It felt like a cold wet towel smack to my face. Missing the truth for about 35 years, I understand that the truth is what I want. I am aware that I write what I would have wanted to hear in 1975. In 1975, I was very interested and motivated to learn about the tennis serve. I was reading tennis books and trying to squeeze the truth out of them. One sentence would have been enough.....

After 2011, I realized that stroke descriptions were being much more clearly discussed by biomechanists and tennis researchers. But on the forum, in instructional videos, even the ISR confirmed in 1995 was being hidden by a communication system that was based on using tennis terms that hid the truth.

I think that there is a reason for going after what is true in a scientific way. It seems to have always done well when applied to any subject.

On this forum over the years, there have been many threads on the kick serve. There is some research by Cross and Lindsay that indicates the racket should be tilted closed (my estimate 15 d.) at impact for the kick serve. There are just a few observations that I have been able to find to back up the racket closed tilt. Is the closed racket tilt for the kick serve true or false? If readers miss that answer for their next 35 years, should they only discover the answer by accident or should they know the truth today? What is true is very important and is missing or hidden in a lot of tennis stroke descriptions. Not so for the scientific descriptions, and they are very readable.

An interested and motivated reader should see the above issue as simple and important. The true-false answer can be observed for a kick serve in a video from the right camera angle.

Chas, has learning all this actually helped you improve your own serve?
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Basically the title. I'm not completely opposed to paying for private tennis lessons, but the money adds up and I am wary about how competent and worthwhile most lessons are anyways (thinking of that one Mark Sansait video on the topic). I'm looking for something more structured and comprehensive than just searching and clicking on random free YouTube lessons and hoping for the best. Are there any YouTube playlists or paid lesson suites that are verifiably worth while? For example, I know that Essential Tennis and Intuitive Tennis have lesson packs for sale, is any of this stuff worth it? I'm looking for very technical lessons and very clear suggestions for the types of training schedules and drills I should be aiming for. Basically looking for super structured and detailed lesson sequences with substance. I realize this question has probably been asked countless of times in this forum but alas... I want some definitive contemporary suggestions. Thanks.


A contributing factor is, what leave you are looking to achieve? You can certainly learn tennis from YouTube videos, self-assessment by recording yourself, playing matches, and finding higher level players who will hit with you and make suggestions.Depending on your athleticism and fitness, you could make it to 4.0, but things kind of unravel a bit there without formal training, structure and guideance. You can get whole USPTA lesson plans on their website and search around, but most are not self-actualized enough to get that finer sueeze of improvement out of them alone to move up. But I do know a few city park players who have never taken a lesson or class and just learned to play by playing matches, and they compete at a lower 4.5 level.

If you are already playing and rated, then that will help others make suggestions I think.
 

pencilcheck

Hall of Fame
A lot of the comments here provide good points
1. Record yourself, front or back and see how you hit, don't focus on pronation etc, but focus on spacing and rhythem and fluitidity
2. Watch videos, have a healthy amount of doubt and experiment it on a court with another hitting partner
3. Hit regularly, try to observe more closely how your swing result in what shot

If you just want to get to 4.0 above should be sufficient.

Once you get to 4.0 level-ish, I think the next level requires completely different
1. Go attend more local flex league and hit with people better than you
2. Observe what they do, as everyone has different answer to get past 4.0 (some slices, some push, some have topspin, etc)
3. Find your own niche that works and continue push forward and polish.
 

ubercat

Hall of Fame
A hit up wall is a painful but best friend. If you just paddle the ball against it randomly you will soon get bored and it's not much help.

You need to get out some painter's tape and make some targets. Also a line half a metre above the net line.

And you need to be honest with yourself. Obviously you don't know if the ball was in or out so practice half Power Shots and plenty of sliced shots. Anytime you are out of position stretching or got caught late slice is your go-to. And when you are learning guess what happens a lot. Unfortunately I've never worked out how to practice slice with side spin on the wall because you can't see the result to me you need to drop hit on a real court for that

First get your basic FH and BH down.

You will need a bucket of balls in a real bucket and one of those tube ball picker uppers.

Step one stationery drop hitting to targets.

Step 2 throw the ball away from yourself and hit to the targets. Don't do anything else until you can accurately do this.

Once you have your basic strokes down I d suggest learning 3 things with your new friend.

X over step - side fwd and back. I learnt in the dawn of time in backwater New Zealand where coaching was go to the end court and hit some balls kids. So wish one of these useless hacks had taught me the crossover step. I'm trying to learn it now with my aging brain no fun

Hitting shots you have to move forward or back to straight and diagonally. Into those target boxes you taped up

Volleys easy against the wall to practice a slice approach to a target and then a put away volley. This one is controversial I got it off a Jamie Murray vid. When moving to the side to cover a pass don't worry about which foot you have forward as long as you are moving forward on the diagonal. I find as long as I can do that and have the weight solidly on the front foot the volly works. Basically just walk forward with big steps on the diagonal and don't care about which foot ends up being forward. You will even need one step or two steps either way you are just fast walking and you know how to do that already.

If you practice purposely in this way it's very easy to simulate the intensity of a real match. For example serve to deuce side and hit a backhand slice with good net clearance DTL. That's simulates a fast serve to your backhand when you got caught late. If you could do that consistently to that half metre above the line target. Then you are going to rob your opponent of a lot of free points and get him on the run. Purposely hit straight at yourself to jam. Then practice footwork to get out of the way to hit full shotd and also practice hitting short angle slices off those for when you just can't get out of the way enough. Once again a circumstance that will come up in a real match again and again.

ID also suggest practicing a few serves every wall session. If you are hitting the half metre above line you taped pretty good chance most of those serves are going in especially if you're aiming for the corner. You want a reliable serve that doesn't double fault that way you are getting far more rallies in matches so you will improve faster.

A beginner often has a service game which is to double faults and two points with the opponent just smashed your serve. And you didn't get to touch the ball.

Practice for 1 hour a week like this and your game will improve very quickly.

Occasionally read up on all those power shot YouTube videos and have a wall session were you just smack the crap out of it. To practice hitting hard with a relaxed arm and having confidence in your shots. But the need for that is a long long way down the track.
 
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johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
DIY doesn't work for everyone. If you watch some videos, try it on court, and immediately have the awareness what you are doing wrong and can self-correct to some extent, then it may worth trying to see how far you can get by yourself. There are a lot of great resources online for sure. it also depends on what you are trying to achieve. I think reaching 3.5 level without taking a single in-person lesson is not impossible at all. my guess is it works better for someone with time, ability to research in a new field and a lot of awareness even with easy access of recording/filming device.
 

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
Internet lessons do nothing to improve your tennis, regardless of your goal.
Hire a coach and drill correct strokes and play matches. That is how you learn tennis.
The worst players are those who watch the most internet lessons. LOL

very exaggerated and single-minded advice
 

ubercat

Hall of Fame
Watch some Agassi instructional videos. I.e. a stroke that is kind of modern but easier for a wreck player to learn. Practice stationery and moving shadow hits with those strokes in your living room. Then book some group lessons to have some real hitting get on the wall just like I said. You will learn easily quickly and cheaply.
 

ubercat

Hall of Fame
One last point before I stop spamming this thread. I do find cardio tennis workouts great for improving your power and accuracy. It's a kind of group tennis workout we have here. Whatever you call this in the US of A you have like a couple of Net players and a couple of baseliners and it's all to
music and quick tempo. It's fast so it stimulates the intensity of a real match and you don't have any points to care about so you can hit out freely. E.g. every time you get a wide shot to your forehand practice hitting it cross caught with good net clearance or trying to roll a high shot over the net guys backhand. If you can make those pressure shots you will draw a lot of errors in a real match.
 

Steady Eddy

Legend
I’m going to sound odd here, but you learn tennis essentially by playing tennis. The more you play, the better you will get. Your body will tell you what works and what doesn’t. Your strokes will be more natural to your own biomechanics. This process takes longer than with a coach, but unless you’re willing to pay for a really good coach, most coaches will only be willing to teach you the most generic stuff. Repetition is the key. Practice practice practice. Don’t worry if your style isn’t very orthodox. Many top 100 players have unorthodox styles, like Hsu Wei and Medvedev.
98% true, but there is a wrinkle. It's hard to learn the overhead just by playing tennis. You don't get enough practice. And if your overhead is poor, you'll avoid going to the net, so it will get even less practice. You need to find someone who will be willing to hit you a variety of lobs so you can practice it.

The same goes for volleys. Sometimes when you're hitting with someone, go up to the net and try to hit volleys TO the other player. When you master hitting to a player in practice, then you'll be able to hit away from a player in a match.
 

FiddlerDog

Hall of Fame
I’m going to sound odd here, but you learn tennis essentially by playing tennis. The more you play, the better you will get.

The local parks are filled with hackers who have played for decades and never got past 3.0 strokes
 

Arak

Legend
98% true, but there is a wrinkle. It's hard to learn the overhead just by playing tennis. You don't get enough practice. And if your overhead is poor, you'll avoid going to the net, so it will get even less practice. You need to find someone who will be willing to hit you a variety of lobs so you can practice it.

The same goes for volleys. Sometimes when you're hitting with someone, go up to the net and try to hit volleys TO the other player. When you master hitting to a player in practice, then you'll be able to hit away from a player in a match.
I don’t claim it’s the perfect way, but my point is, it’s better not to have a teacher, if you can’t get a good one. Either way, you need to hit a lot, with or without a teacher. Practice makes perfect. You make a good point about overheads and volleys, but if you play doubles, you do get the opportunity to hit many of these. I personally play more doubles than singles, even though I prefer singles, but most of the time we have more than 2 guys who want to play, so we try to accommodate more people. As I said, I do have a teacher with whom I practice once a week. I tried to skip him for a while and my level dropped, but I think it’s because I only play matches otherwise. If I had a practice partner, I could probably do the same exercises with him including overheads and volleys without needing the teacher.
 
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