Better Hardcourter-Nadal vs Agassi

[ImmorTAL Big 3]

Who among the two consider better HC.They have almost mirror same results in Hard GS.Agassi is 2-4 in US,while Nadal is 2-4 at AO and Agassi is 4-0 at AO vs Nadal 4-1 at US.Agassi have more wins in US while Nadal at Australia. It's true that Agassi have more titles,match wins and Masters but we should take into account Nadal was in the era of 2 greatest hardcourters while Agassi haven't got a player even of Connors,Lendl level most of his career.For me it's slightly Nadal,what do you think

 

[jondice]

My two all time favorite players. On paper, I'd say Andre. But Rafa has proven himself a HC beast on the court. A tie for me.

 

[Chanwan]

The fact that this question can even be asked tells you how great Rafa has been at vultering HC slams. Agassi for me and it's not even close

Davydenko also says hi

 

[aman92]

Agassi has had the better overall hard court career but Nadal would beat him in a prime vs Prime head to head

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Agassi in a heartbeat. As obvious as two and two.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Still Agassi for me. And I think his peak level on hard courts was better than Nadal's, irrespective of the court speed.

 

[Turning Pro]

Nadal. As he is 2>1 h2h vs the Hc goat and 4>3 in titles at the US open. Also he is 3>1 h2h vs the 2nd Hc goat and beat him in one of the best matches of all time.

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

Andre for me
AO 7-3
USO 6-4
YEC 8-2

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

Think it’s down to the way Andre takes the ball so early. Nadals court position would makes it so difficult for himself

 

[Sport]

Nadal of course. But people will vote for Andre because there are more Federer and Djokovic fans combined than Nadal fans, and Fedovic fans ain't gonna vote for Nadal because he is the rival of their idols. They don't want to give Nadal extra credit in the GOAT debate.

Nadal faced much stronger opposition (the 2 best hard courters of all time) and still managed to win as many Slams on hard as Agassi. That alone proves who's better on hard.

Additionally, in the only match they played on hard, a 19 years old teenager Nadal beat 35 years old Agassi. That match occured in late 2005, and Agassi was closer to his prime on hard than Nadal (Agassi reached the USO final a few weeks after this encounter, while Nadal did not reach his first Slam SF on hard till 2008).

Not to mention the MOBILITY problem of Agassi, who could barely run in his 30s. He had a genetic problem on his back (spondylolisthesis) that produced his characteristic "duck walk". Nadal is much faster and more complete. For those thinking I'm "making up" this, check the link below:

"Agassi and approximately 7% of the population suffer from a structural defect in the spine called spondylolisthesis. This condition is characterized by a fracture (lysis) that causes the front body of the vertebrae (spondylo) to separate (thesis) from the bone and joints located at the back of the spine."

Back Pain: Spondylolisthesis And Andre Agassi

Many of us who learned to play tennis in the ‘80’s and 90’s were taught to emulate Agassi’s mini-step style of movement.

orthophysio.com

 

[Chanwan]

Who among the two consider better HC.They have almost mirror same results in Hard GS.Agassi is 2-4 in US,while Nadal is 2-4 at AO and Agassi is 4-0 at AO vs Nadal 4-1 at US.Agassi have more wins in US while Nadal at Australia. It's true that Agassi have more titles,match wins and Masters but we should take into account Nadal was in the era of 2 greatest hardcourters while Agassi haven't got a player even of Connors,Lendl level most of his career.For me it's slightly Nadal,what do you think

Sampras says hi

 

[Chanwan]

Nadal of course. But people will vote for Andre becauae there are more Federer and Djokovic fans combined than Nadal fans, and Fedovic fans ain't gonna vote for Nadal because he is the rival of their idols.

Nadal faced much stronger opposition (the 2 best hard courters of all time) and still managed to win as many Slams on hard as Agassi.

And he didn't meet Djoko or Fed in his last 3 HC slam wins. last time, he did meet Djoko he won a bery impressive 8 games

 

[Biotic]

That match occured in late 2005, and Agassi was closer to his prime on hard than Nadal.

Not to mention the MOBILITY problem of Agassi, who could barely run in his 30s.

 

[SamprasisGOAT]

You’ve killed him

 

[ImmorTAL Big 3]

Nadal of course. But people will vote for Andre becauae there are more Federer and Djokovic fans combined than Nadal fans, and Fedovic fans ain't gonna vote for Nadal because he is the rival of their idols. They don't want to give Nadal extra credit in the GOAT debate.

Nadal faced much stronger opposition (the 2 best hard courters of all time) and still managed to win as many Slams on hard as Agassi. That alone proves who's better on hard.

Aditionally, in the only match they played on hard, a 19 years old teenager Nadal beat 35 years old Agassi. That match occured in late 2005, and Agassi was closer to his prime on hard than Nadal (Agassi reached the USO final a few weeks after this encounter).

Not to mention the MOBILITY problem of Agassi, who could barely run in his 30s. He had a genetic problem on his legs that produced his characteristic "duck walk". Nadal is much faster and more complete.

I don't agree with you.I am Novak fan and voted for Nadal,the majority of Federer and Novak fans know their favourites are far better than both of these guys on hard so they will be mostly objective because this don't diminish at all their favourites.

 

[Sport]

Agassi reached the USO final a few weeks after their Toronto 2005 meeting, while Nadal did not reach his first Slam SF on hard till 2008. So Agassi was closer to his prime on hard in that meeting.

With regard to his mobility problem, I'm not "makin up" this. Agassi had Spondylolisthesis., and that explains his pigeon-like walk. This condition is characterized by a fracture (lysis) that causes the front body of the vertebrae (spondylo) to separate (thesis) from the bone and joints located at the back of the spine.

Source:

Back Pain: Spondylolisthesis And Andre Agassi

Many of us who learned to play tennis in the ‘80’s and 90’s were taught to emulate Agassi’s mini-step style of movement.

orthophysio.com

 

[NeutralFan]

*grabs the popcorn*

 

[Blahovic]

Game-wise, Agassi is definitely the more natural hard courter, but I don't think Agassi could stay with peak Nadal physically or mentally over 5 sets. Nadal's combination of defence and power didn't exist in Agassi's era.

 

[Hitman]

I would say Nadal is probably the greater HC player of the two now, but Agassi is the better HC player of the two, Agassi has done well on indoor HC also, with wins in Paris and WTF, something Nadal has failed to do.

 

[The_Order]

The fact that this question can even be asked tells you how great Rafa has been at vultering HC slams. Agassi for me and it's not even close

Davydenko also says hi

What a stupid comment...

You want to talk about vulturing slams look no further than Andre....

2001 AO he didn't face anyone in the top 10 - this is the comment you guys love to use re Nadal's US17 run...

Oh, what's that you say? He had Pat Rafter in the sf? Is this the same Pat Rafter that only made it to the 4th round at the AO once before in his career? The same Pat Rafter that was sweating so much he was cramping up and literally couldn't play anywhere near what he did in the first 3 sets? lmfao...

No? Ok, how about AO03 which was even worse than Nadal's US17....

How about his US Open runs.. the best player he ever beat at the US Open on his way to a title was who? Stich? lmfao Nadal beat Djokovic... twice...

Rafa had one of the hardest draws in the open era at AO09... no way peak Andre gets through a draw like that... not a freaking chance....

Have your choice.. I don't care... but do not talk **** about vulturing when it comes to Nadal's HC majors and Agassi's when Andre clearly had it easier than Rafa did....

 

[zagor]

Agassi reached the USO final a few weeks after their Toronto 2005 meeting, while Nadal did not reach his first Slam SF on hard till 2008. So Agassi was closer to his prime on hard in that meeting.

With regard to his mobility problem, I'm not "makin up" this. Agassi had Spondylolisthesis., and that explains his pigeon-like walk. This condition is characterized by a fracture (lysis) that causes the front body of the vertebrae (spondylo) to separate (thesis) from the bone and joints located at the back of the spine.

Source:

Back Pain: Spondylolisthesis And Andre Agassi

Many of us who learned to play tennis in the ‘80’s and 90’s were taught to emulate Agassi’s mini-step style of movement.

orthophysio.com

Doesn't matter if he had Spondy-whatever, he didn't have a mobility problem when he was younger. He was never athlete Djokodal (or Fed and Pete) are but he had atleast above average court coverage in the 90s.

 

[vanioMan]

Agassi but not by THAT much.

 

[NeutralFan]

Agassi but not by THAT much.

Will never know because of different era , different players , different Opponents etc . Rest is just opinion and opinions are laden with value judgements.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

 

[InsideOut900]

Nadal of course. But people will vote for Andre becauae there are more Federer and Djokovic fans combined than Nadal fans, and Fedovic fans ain't gonna vote for Nadal because he is the rival of their idols. They don't want to give Nadal extra credit in the GOAT debate.

Nadal faced much stronger opposition (the 2 best hard courters of all time) and still managed to win as many Slams on hard as Agassi. That alone proves who's better on hard.

Additionally, in the only match they played on hard, a 19 years old teenager Nadal beat 35 years old Agassi. That match occured in late 2005, and Agassi was closer to his prime on hard than Nadal (Agassi reached the USO final a few weeks after this encounter, while Nadal did not reach his first Slam SF on hard till 2008).

Not to mention the MOBILITY problem of Agassi, who could barely run in his 30s. He had a genetic problem on his back (spondylolisthesis) that produced his characteristic "duck walk". Nadal is much faster and more complete. For those thinking I'm "making up" this, check the link below:

"Agassi and approximately 7% of the population suffer from a structural defect in the spine called spondylolisthesis. This condition is characterized by a fracture (lysis) that causes the front body of the vertebrae (spondylo) to separate (thesis) from the bone and joints located at the back of the spine."

Back Pain: Spondylolisthesis And Andre Agassi

Many of us who learned to play tennis in the ‘80’s and 90’s were taught to emulate Agassi’s mini-step style of movement.

orthophysio.com

They call them VB for a reason

 

[MichaelNadal]

Nadal at this point. Andre will always have the crispier groundstrokes though

 

[DSH]

The fact that this question can even be asked tells you how great Rafa has been at vultering HC slams. Agassi for me and it's not even close

Davydenko also says hi

They never met in GS tournaments and Nadal has 6 Majors titles on hard court; the Russian doesn't even have a final.
And if you're talking about "vulture", check out the Australian Open 2001, 2003, which Agassi won.
His 1999 US Open title was no big deal either: In the consequential absence of Sampras (who was the top favorite to win it), Agassi had only to defeat Kafelnikov and Todd Martin, who returned to a final of that caliber, after more than five years.
So, no, before talking nonsense, you have to review a little the history of certain players and remember that not all past times were better.

 

[InsideOut900]

Agassi, obviously.

He had 5-6 prime level years at USO: 94, 95, 99, 01, 02/04
Nadal had 3: 2010, 2011, 2013

Agassi had 5 prime years at AO: 95, 00, 01, 03, primeish at AO 04
Nadal had 3 prime years at AO: 09, 12, 14

Also 2004 Agassi > 2017 Nadal at both HC Slams clearly, but bumped into peak Fed and Safin and lost 5 setters to both.

So better prime longevity on an arguably similar peak with half of Nadal's titles (USO 17, USO 19, AO 21) being worse than Andre's weakest titles (AO 03 or USO 99).

 

[MichaelNadal]

Agassi, obviously.

He had 5-6 prime level years at USO: 94, 95, 99, 01, 02/04
Nadal had 3: 2010, 2011, 2013

Agassi had 5 prime years at AO: 95, 00, 01, 03, primeish at AO 04
Nadal had 3 prime years at AO: 09, 12, 14

Also 2004 Agassi > 2017 Nadal at both HC Slams clearly, but bumped into peak Fed and Safin and lost 5 setters to both.

Morning bestie

 

[InsideOut900]

Morning bestie

It's 2 PM here bruh. Though still in the pijamas.

 

[DSH]

Andre for me
AO 7-3
USO 6-4
YEC 8-2

In Australia, Agassi is superior but not by much, and although Nadal is not a great indoor player on hard courts, the difference is not so much if we talk about Agassi, who is not a "monster" either, under those conditions.
And if you check the win-loss average of both in the ATP Finals, it's very similar:
Agassi has 22 victories and 20 defeats and Nadal has 20 victories and 16 defeats, there.
If you had put Sampras I would accept it, but not the "Punisher".

 

[NeutralFan]

They never met in GS tournaments and Nadal has 6 Majors titles on hard court; the Russian doesn't even have a final.
And if you're talking about "vulture", check out the Australian Open 2001, 2003, which Agassi won.
His 1999 US Open title was no big deal either: In the consequential absence of Sampras (who was the top favorite to win it), Agassi had only to defeat Kafelnikov and Todd Martin, who returned to a final of that caliber, after more than five years.
So, no, before talking nonsense, you have to review a little the history of certain players and remember that not all past times were better.

Bo3 victories mean nothing when Murray defeated Federer countless times but becomes important in case of small Davey vs Nadal even though their sample size is way less than Murray and Fed. No agenda here bro

 

[DSH]

Bo3 victories mean nothing when Murray defeated Federer countless times but becomes important in case of small Davey vs Nadal even though their sample size is way less than Murray and Fed. No agenda here bro

They are so cheeky (and stupid) that they only apply their "logic" when it suits them.

 

[Nadal_Django]

The fact that this question can even be asked tells you how great Rafa has been at vultering HC slams. Agassi for me and it's not even close

Davydenko also says hi

Nadal isn't even in the same stratosphere with Agassi regarding HC greatness. Lol And no, a few extra micky mouse slams won by Nadal will never change that fact, that's for sure.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Nadal isn't even in the same stratosphere with Agassi regarding HC greatness. Lol And no, a few extra micky mouse slams won by Nadal will never change that fact, that's for sure.

Cute tank bestie

 

[Apun94]

What a stupid comment...

You want to talk about vulturing slams look no further than Andre....

2001 AO he didn't face anyone in the top 10 - this is the comment you guys love to use re Nadal's US17 run...

Oh, what's that you say? He had Pat Rafter in the sf? Is this the same Pat Rafter that only made it to the 4th round at the AO once before in his career? The same Pat Rafter that was sweating so much he was cramping up and literally couldn't play anywhere near what he did in the first 3 sets? lmfao...

No? Ok, how about AO03 which was even worse than Nadal's US17....

How about his US Open runs.. the best player he ever beat at the US Open on his way to a title was who? Stich? lmfao Nadal beat Djokovic... twice...

Rafa had one of the hardest draws in the open era at AO09... no way peak Andre gets through a draw like that... not a freaking chance....

Have your choice.. I don't care... but do not talk **** about vulturing when it comes to Nadal's HC majors and Agassi's when Andre clearly had it easier than Rafa did....

This. Game Set Match

 

[darthrafa]

And he didn't meet Djoko or Fed in his last 3 HC slam wins. last time, he did meet Djoko he won a bery impressive 8 games

Why don’t u mention the two finals at uo djoker was defeated?

 

[abmk]

Agassi, obviously.

He had 5-6 prime level years at USO: 94, 95, 99, 01, 02/04
Nadal had 3: 2010, 2011, 2013

Agassi had 5 prime years at AO: 95, 00, 01, 03, primeish at AO 04
Nadal had 3 prime years at AO: 09, 12, 14

Also 2004 Agassi > 2017 Nadal at both HC Slams clearly, but bumped into peak Fed and Safin and lost 5 setters to both.

So better prime longevity on an arguably similar peak with half of Nadal's titles (USO 17, USO 19, AO 21) being worse than Andre's weakest titles (AO 03 or USO 99).

yeah, pretty much this.

To put it in other terms:
# of slams won where either at prime-ish/better level or decent competition: Agassi = 6, Nadal = 3
I mean Agassi of USO 04 was better than Nadal of USO 11 FFS.

The top 4 in terms of difficulty of slams won:

1. Nadal AO 09 (verdasco+fed)
2. Agassi AO 00 (sampras+kafel+scud)
3. Agassi USO 94 (chang+stich+martin+ferreira+muster - deep draw)
4. Agassi AO 95 (sampras+kafel)

Nadal's USO 17 was similar to Agassi's AO 03 - both very easy draws, but Agassi was in prime-ish form in AO 03, unlike Nadal in USO 17. And it took a titanic 5-setter from peak Safin ot bring him down even next year, FFS.

 

[MichaelNadal]

What a stupid comment...



You want to talk about vulturing slams look no further than Andre....



2001 AO he didn't face anyone in the top 10 - this is the comment you guys love to use re Nadal's US17 run...



Oh, what's that you say? He had Pat Rafter in the sf? Is this the same Pat Rafter that only made it to the 4th round at the AO once before in his career? The same Pat Rafter that was sweating so much he was cramping up and literally couldn't play anywhere near what he did in the first 3 sets? lmfao...



No? Ok, how about AO03 which was even worse than Nadal's US17....



How about his US Open runs.. the best player he ever beat at the US Open on his way to a title was who? Stich? lmfao Nadal beat Djokovic... twice...



Rafa had one of the hardest draws in the open era at AO09... no way peak Andre gets through a draw like that... not a freaking chance....



Have your choice.. I don't care... but do not talk **** about vulturing when it comes to Nadal's HC majors and Agassi's when Andre clearly had it easier than Rafa did....

This. Game Set Match

yeah, pretty much this.

To put it in other terms:
# of slams won where either at prime-ish/better level or decent competition: Agassi = 6, Nadal = 3
I mean Agassi of USO 04 was better than Nadal of USO 11 FFS.

This is why TTW is pointless lol

 

[NeutralFan]

yeah, pretty much this.

To put it in other terms:
# of slams won where either at prime-ish/better level or decent competition: Agassi = 6, Nadal = 3
I mean Agassi of USO 04 was better than Nadal of USO 11 FFS.

The top 4 in terms of difficulty of slams won:

1. Nadal AO 09 (verdasco+fed)
2. Agassi AO 00 (sampras+kafel+scud)
3. Agassi USO 94 (chang+stich+martin+ferreira+muster - deep draw)
4. Agassi AO 95 (sampras+kafel)

Lol

 

[TheNachoMan]

Agassi by far.

 

[NatF]

This is why TTW is pointless lol

Spent 10 years of my life here man and all pointless

 

[RS]

Spent 10 years of my life here man and all pointless

Celebrate the 10 years on the exact day

 

[RS]

.

 

[abmk]

but we should take into account Nadal was in the era of 2 greatest hardcourters while Agassi haven't got a player even of Connors,Lendl level most of his career.

umm, Sampras says hello. Wake up.
Also fed stopped Agassi thrice in HC slams - USO 04, AO 05, USO 05. Agassi would probably be favored to win USO 04 without fed.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Agassi by far.

Bc he sucked on clay lol. You think of him as a hardcourter.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Nadal is better because he has a much better record at the most prestigious HC tournament: 4 USO >> 2 USO. Also Agassi could never beat Sampras at the USO whereas Nadal beat Djokovic twice in finals. Also beat PM Medvedev who is proving to be an excellent HC player.

 

[mike danny]

Nadal is better because he has a much better record at the most prestigious HC tournament: 4 USO >> 2 USO. Also Agassi could never beat Sampras at the USO whereas Nadal beat Djokovic twice in finals. Also beat PM Medvedev who is proving to be an excellent HC player.

So are we just gonna ignore that Sampras > Djokovic at the USO?

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Bc he sucked on clay lol. You think of him as a hardcourter.

Agassi was shockingly close to 3 RG titles.

 

[abmk]

Bc he sucked on clay lol. You think of him as a hardcourter.

Sure pal. Guy who won RG in 99, made finals in 90, 91, SFs in 88, 92 and won Rome sucked on clay.

On HC, Agassi was clearly better than Nadal at his prime AND had significantly more prime level runs on HC as @InsideOut900 pointed out.