mike danny
Bionic Poster
Uhhh, Federer? Djokovic only has 2 more slam wins against Nadal than Federer and one of those wins was 2015 RG....
Choke of the year
- Thread starter StrongRule
- Start date
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Nadal pushed Delpo to a 3rd set tiebreak, he was obviously in good form...
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Medvedev's choke was the biggest I've ever seen in men's tennis and I've seen a fair few over the past 26 years.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Medvedev was playing in his maiden Slam final and just got nervous as the finish line approached (as many maiden Slam finalists have done). What was Federer's excuse?
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
He obviously talks about their WTF meeting. One has to be really crazy to say Medvedev choked in USO final. Med was actually EXTREMELY CLUTCH in this final, and fought until the very last point.
clout
Hall of Fame
I think he was talking about the WTF match which was a complete choke. Medvedev did the opposite of choking in the USO finals, the kid GOATed like no other nextgen has at a major before, he made a GOAT candidate have to squeeze out the Vic by the skin of his teeth
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
40-15. BIGGEST CHOKE
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
I though it was Nadal at the USO vs Cilic. Or was it Schwartzman? No it was definitely Berrettini. Hang on I think it was against Medvedev.
That's what @StrongRule assured us of each time, at least.
That's what @StrongRule assured us of each time, at least.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Then you remember he is 23 and Nadal is 33.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Well, he ended up winning these matches. Had Nadal lost one of these first 2 sets against Schwartzman or the fifth set from a double break against Medvedev it would definitely be choke of the decade.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
eeef eeef eeef
I'm joking about you freaking out in like the beginning of the 2nd set of those matches (if not earlier) that "This is it. Choke of the year. Federer's got nothing on this collapse. Rafa's dream of 20 ends tonight." Every time he'd miss a single forehand lol.
clout
Hall of Fame
Has he really though. It took him nearly 10 years to beat Rafa at a major following their ‘07 Wimby classic and for the first decade of their rivalry, Nadal had a 23-10 lead. More than 1/3 of Fed’s wins in their matchup have come in the last 4 years...and Rafa still holds a comfortable edge, which shows how much Fed struggled in this specific matchup for much of their careers.
In the big picture, the only player who was always been able to push and beat Rafa in big matches was Djokovic if we’re being really honest
mike danny
Bionic Poster
It came a period where Djoko was not able to beat Rafa in majors until he was really terrible in 2015. So Djoko's dominance only occurred in 2011-early 2012.
The last 3 years are very relevant. I don't see why they have to be overlooked while counting 2013-early 2014 when Fed sucked.
And Rafa's current edge is mostly clay related.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Ignoring the 2013 vs 2015-16 skew aka Nadal facing Federer at his worst and Djokovic facing Nadal at his worst but not the opposite, I see
Obviously Djokovic dominated Nadal in 2011 like no one else could ever do, but other than that, in the big picture you aspire to paint, he had one other slam win at his favourite slam before 2015 (=2007 Wimbledon for Fred), beat a very poor Nadal in 2015 (wish Fed got to face such Nadal at RG, huehue), and twice more recently when even old Federer regularly beats Nadal off clay. 2011 sets him apart in that regard, but then he had way more trouble with Federer than Nadal did, so match-ups be match-ups.
clout
Hall of Fame
Nadal was GOATing around that time so it would’ve been a difficult task for any version of Fed to handle given their matchup. The same can be said for all the loses Djokovic handed Fedal around 2015. Nole was GOATing at that time and it would’ve been tough for any version of Fedal to have gotten the better of Novak the way he was destroying everyone back then.
clout
Hall of Fame
Well when you put it that way lol yes historically a 33 year old should get crushed by a 23 year old at a slam final. If a 23-year old Federer or 23-year old Nadal went up against a 33 year old in a GS finals, I’d be saying prayers to the 33 year old haha
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer's genuine legacy troubles stem entirely from losing too many close slam matches to either Djokodal, more lost than won. If only he were clutcher and won a few more (like Wim 08 / AO 09 vs Nadal and USO 11 / Wim 19 vs Djokovic), other losses wouldn't look nearly as problematic in a proper analysis considering the surface distribution and age/form advantage, not to mention his record would remain likely unassailable even now.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal wasn't goating in 2011, this sounds like Djokovic goating in 2012 and Djokovic was more consistent in 2012 than Nadal in 2011.
Djokovic obviously had a legendary season in 2015, but he wasn't destroying everyone in slams, look at the number of sets dropped.
estigma2001
Hall of Fame
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
we could have used some brevity and third option could have been referred just as 40-15. No need to choke internet band-width by using kilobytes where few bytes are just as effective.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Yeah, sorry. Just spotted it. Medvedev was very unclutch in all 3 of his WTF matches.
Purplemonster
Hall of Fame
Federer is supposedly the greatest of all time so it has to be him.
Fiero425
Legend
Looking back at Nadal's career, 2011 would've been his best chance to hold onto the #1 ranking for a prolonged period of time if not for Nole coming into his own at the end of 2010! Nadal had won 3 majors, but Djokovic carried his countrymen to a Davis Cup when DC was DC! This past event is little more than a male version of Federation Cup! I had no idea they had decided on this change! It's just another way to undermine institutional events to herald a new one created by the ATP I guess! Let's hope they're more successful than the ITF's bid to take over the YEC with the Grand Slam Cup almost 30 years ago! What a bust!
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RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
A choke is not one shot missed. People throw around the word choke too much.
Here is a definition of choke. Watch carefully Troickis whole demeanor and how he hits his shots. Its very clear that he is panicking and caught up in the moment for whatever reason.
I advise those who haven't seen the final set TB of Russia v serbia to watch how Troicki is playing. Its not just that he misses, but everything leading to his shots there is a sense of panic. This is choking and Id call this the choke of the year.
Here is a definition of choke. Watch carefully Troickis whole demeanor and how he hits his shots. Its very clear that he is panicking and caught up in the moment for whatever reason.
I advise those who haven't seen the final set TB of Russia v serbia to watch how Troicki is playing. Its not just that he misses, but everything leading to his shots there is a sense of panic. This is choking and Id call this the choke of the year.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
He was the better player throughout the entire match, wasted 2 CP's on serve and couldn't win a tiebreak to save his life.
By every definition, it was a choke.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Im talking CPs, it was no choke.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
It wasn't just the CP's though. It was everything.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
But he wasn’t the better player throughout. Only on some parts of it. Fed’s stats for the whole match are bolstered by what happened in sets 2 And 4. As an example Fed won 14 more points in the match than Novak which is fully explained by the results of set 2. Similar case with BPs. Fed broke Novak 4 times more than the other way around, and that’s fully explained by sets 2 and 4.
Novak didn’t just play better a few key points. Novak won because he won all 3 TBs and he won those without a single UE.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Fed was the better player, while Novak was more clutch. That's it.
Novak deserved to win, but Fed choked really hard and eventually gifted him the win.
Breakpointerer
Legend
Going 0-3 in TBs was the real problem for Fed in that final. Those CP misses were actually not that bad(FH error off a deep return, then the pass) . Djokovic was super clutch and solid in those TBs, and Fed didnt help himself with his errors(11 total in TBs, I think).
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Mainad
Bionic Poster
That 3rd Mp
Djokovic isn't entirely blameless. He overhit that return at 8-8 to bring up Russia's match point.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
You are right Novak was more clutch. But you gotta remember you don't get a bonus set for losing a tight set 7-6 and winning the other 6-1. Its still 1-1 in sets.
Djokovic scored one point more than Federer in set 1, in set two there was a substantial difference in points won in Feds favour. Set 3 was again very even and a point seperated them. So it was a very tight set and it came down to clutchness in the TB, and Djokovic was much better than Fed in that TB. As a matter o fact, in all TBs Djokovic was the much better player. Set 4 Federer wins 5 points more wich isn't that much more and finally set 5 Djokovic edges it with 1 point.
Looking at the overall stats sure you could say Federer was the better player, but Id say that is mainly cause of set 2.
The unlucky part for Fed was that he couldnt get an ace or hit a great first serve, but that isn't choking.
In total they played 33 points across all TBs, and Djokovic didn't make a single UE.
And don't forget Djokovic was up a break much earlier than the 2 CPs. And in that game he was spraying errors everywhere.
All in all, it was a very even match with both players having opportunities to close it out, but it came down to no choke.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I think a lot people are calling this match a choke because it was the 3rd time this happened in a big Slam match where Djokovic came back from match points and won. I think it happening in a Wimbledon final is the absolute worst but like you pointed out, it isn't as much of a choke as people are letting on and more of Federer getting tight and Djokovic coming back. I think they both got tight in this match. Djokovic did it at 4-2 serving in the final set. He should have never let Federer back in at that point but he did and almost paid the price. In fact, in every Wimbledon final Djokovic has played against Federer he has gotten tight at some point or another: The 4th set in 2014 when he had 5-2 (double break?) and let Federer back in, 2015 when he had like 7 set points in the second set tiebreaker and found a way to lose it and then 2019. So for me, I do think Federer was the overall better player in this one but that was mainly because Djokovic was nonexistent in set 2 and was down 2-5 in set 4 before getting one break back. Djokovic, though, was the better player in the tiebreaks and that is what decided it.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer won more points overall, had higher RPW in the last four sets, had 2 MPs on serve and still didn't win, obvious choke is obvious. Djokovic having huge dips within the match doesn't change anything about Federer's performance.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, you really can't admit someone ever choked against Djokovic. I don't see how Troicki's "choke" was worse than what I described. Troicki is just a bad player and you can't expect much from him. Nadal also had to suffer with Granollers and Lopez in doubles.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I didn't say it was the biggest choke of the year but to me losing from 5-1 match point up is worse than losing from 8-7 40-15 up. I think the repercussions of that Wimbledon match are just much worse though than a RR WTF match. When I think of an epic choke, I think of Novotna in the 93 Wimbledon final leading 4-1 with a point to go up 5-1 and collapsed, lost the match, and the title.
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
though I have voted for it, because fedr just should’ve served it out, i have to give it to Djoker - he was clutch on those MPs. Fed didn’t really make any cheap mistakes to gift the game to Djoker. I consider it a choke when the player totally collapses after he misses some huge opportunities, starts making mistakes he didn’t make before, loses concentration, gets nervous and tight. however fed kept his cool and made it to the final TB, 8 games later. he also created new BPs opportunities for himself in the last game before the tiebreak - and once again Djokovic played well to save them.
it’s true Fed got worse in all three of those tie-breaks, but I wouldn’t call it a choke by definition. A choke would have been if fed made cheap UEs on shots that weren’t going to be winners, then lost concentration and the next two games after failing to serve out the match - in other words exactly what happened in the USO 11 SF.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
I'd rather label it unlucky than a choke. I see no obvious signs of a choke nor do I live in Federers body to determine how his feelings were in that moment. Choke is an overused word.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
He missed ONE FH on those MPs. The 2nd one Djokovic won it by great serve and pushing del po back. How do you know that the reason he missed it was cause of his nervousness or emotions took over? Do you live in his body? It is one bad miss, not enough to label it as a choke.
In your OP you are slamming Delpo for not taking his BP chances but as you look everything from Djokovics opponents perspective, you missed that Djokovic was 0/6 on BPs in the 1st set while Del Po was 1/2 and in the 2nd set Djokovic was 1/4 while Del Po again was 1/2. In total Djokovic had 10 BPs in those 2 sets and took only one. But yes somehow you missed that, probably cause all you want is to see Djokovic lose and when it doesn't happen you insult his opponent.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Maybe he didn't make cheap errors on those CP's, but you're telling me there really was no way for him to not lose the next 2 points afterwards?
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
>got broken from 40-15 up serving for the championship
>no obvious signs of choke
Federer hadn't dropped serve from 40-15 up the entire tournament (about 50 instances), including 7 times in the final itself, and then it happens on championship points and that's apparently fine, ecksdee ecksdee.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Certainly far from the worst choke ever in scope, but still not something the commonly proclaimed GOAT should ever allow really.
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
not saying that there was, but one unforce error doesn’t make it a choke just because of the circumstances. there’s a grey area IMO. maybe he would have played those points differently if he hadn’t just wasted two CP points, but who knows. Point is e didn’t completely crumble and lose 9-7, he fought until the end, creating more opportunities along the way. Textbook choking looks differently. we can call it that if you’d like, but even if then, it shouldn’t be the winner of the poll, considering what I’ve said. not even sure why I voted for it, guess I’m just still pissed.
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