Dead strings without tension loss?

[Rolv]

I understand that the term "dead strings" means that the feel is dead, and this is because the elasticity of the material in the strings is worn out.

But does this automatically mean that string tension also drops because the elasticity is gone?
Or can the elasticity disappear, although you still have an ok string tenision?

Sometimes it happens that the person who strings my racket doesn't want to string, because he doesn't think it has lost any tension, even if I feel it is dead. And then we're not talking about 5 hours of play, but maybe 30 hours.
In his world, only string tension exists, he is probably not aware that the material can "die".

 

[PRS]

You are correct, the string material can die even if the tension seems fine. Poly, while generally also loses tension quicker, can go dead while still feeling tight depending on how/when it was strung. Any string can, poly just dies/loses playability quicker than other strings.

 

[esgee48]

No poly lasts thru 30 hours of usage. Your stringer should just restring your frame.

There are two ways strings lose tension. Static tension loss is when the frame is unhit. Tension drops until the remaining tension is less than the force required to permanently stretch the string. If unhit and stored at a constant temperature, tension losses stop.

When you hit a tennis ball, the impact exerts forces on the string bed leading to more tension loss. The minute losses are permanent. If you continue to hit, a diviation in string properties start to show up. Nylons will continue to stretch and turn mushy. Polyesters start to work harden and become even stiffer. There is still an element of elasticity in the string, however very large forces are required to make the string elastic. The Hulk could do it, but wimpy humans can’t. Poly string are dead when you cannot hit the ball with enough force to feel any elasticity.

if you cut a tight fresh poly string, note how far the ends separate. Cut dead but still stiff poly string and you will see the ends not move because they are no longer elastic.

 

[Booger]

Yes, even after 3-4 hours, I can do a blind test and pick out fresh poly vs. used poly every time. Much prefer to always play with fresh strings, which is the main reason I have my own machine.

 

[Bambooman]

[QUOTE="esgee48, post: 16780821, member: 79281"

if you cut a tight fresh poly string, note how far the ends separate. Cut dead but still stiff poly string and you will see the ends not move because they are no longer elastic.
[/QUOTE]
Surely you exaggerate. I just cut out a set of Alu Power installed in 2007 and the ends still moved.

 

[Ronaldo]

Would/will excessive pre-tensioning of any string hasten this effect?

 

[esgee48]

@Bambooman I was exaggerating but you can see the difference between freshly strung and dead. The norm is dead moves maybe 1-2 cm. Fresh when cut has snapback.

@Ronaldo I assume you mean machine prestretch. Prestretch removes static tension loss cuz the overshoot is only a few seconds. The string tension therefore stabilizes closer to ref tension such as RT-5# vs no prestretch at RT-7#. Problem is machine prestretch percent is normally not spec by client and the sections between clamp and gripper gets prestretched twice. I personally do not prestretch but pull tension at least 10 seconds. Or my machine yells at me. Makes me a slow stringer cuz I rarely break 30-35 min.

 

[Sander001]

I found poly great to play great with even in 30's. Counter the inevitable stringbed lock and it plays great much longer.

 

[Ronaldo]

@Bambooman I was exaggerating but you can see the difference between freshly strung and dead. The norm is dead moves maybe 1-2 cm. Fresh when cut has snapback.

@Ronaldo I assume you mean machine prestretch. Prestretch removes static tension loss cuz the overshoot is only a few seconds. The string tension therefore stabilizes closer to ref tension such as RT-5# vs no prestretch at RT-7#. Problem is machine prestretch percent is normally not spec by client and the sections between clamp and gripper gets prestretched twice. I personally do not prestretch but pull tension at least 10 seconds. Or my machine yells at me. Makes me a slow stringer cuz I rarely break 30-35 min.

Meant a manual pre-stretch to erase the coil memory. Learning to try to remember to forget about coil memory till the next stringing.

 

[kailash]

Kirschbaum strings are factory pre-stretched; try those.

Not dead, but maintain tension for a very very long time!

I am not a string breaker and Max Power lasts 6+ months without a change!

 

[Patrik]

I wish I had more experience so I could participate in this discussion. I use MSV co focus 1.18, pre-stretched to 40 kg and strung at 18 kg. Two weeks and 20+ hours later I can't tell any difference from when it was fresh, apart from a little notching. It even sounds the same when tapped, at least to my ears. But I am a noob so maybe I just cannot discern. I am a believer in massive pre-stretch. The string bed feels awesome to me, do you think a 40 kg pre-stretch on a 17L is killing the string? It does not seem that way to me, the noob.

 

[Steve Huff]

Pre-stretching to 40kg (88 lbs) is a little overkill. I'm surprised you haven't snapped a few sets, especially since you're using 1.18g. If not, you eventually will. I don't know if it's "killing" the string, but it's definitely taking some of the intended playability out of them. But, if it's working for you, keep on doing it.

 

[esgee48]

@Patrik Your massive prestretch removed basically 90% of any possible elongation in the string, if not more. The string is in the work hardened stage and when strung up at normal poly ref tensions, will be very stable. That’s because you are not the Hulk. You are not the only one who likes to prestretch polys. Two proponents of this are @Shroud and @travlerajm because they value the stable tension characteristic. At the same time, your thin poly setup still has some give. If you feel like experimenting, do a prestretch on any 1.30 or 1.25 mm poly and see if you can extend its playing life.

 

[Arzivu]

Max Power lasts 6+ months without a change!

Do you keep poly for that long in your racket without your arm complaining?

 

[esgee48]

I had s client using SPPP 1.23 for 3 months until I restrung it. He did not play enuff to kill the factory prestretched string. He is happier with POSG. Says more ‘power.’

 

[Rolv]

No poly lasts thru 30 hours of usage. Your stringer should just restring your frame.

There are two ways strings lose tension. Static tension loss is when the frame is unhit. Tension drops until the remaining tension is less than the force required to permanently stretch the string. If unhit and stored at a constant temperature, tension losses stop.

When you hit a tennis ball, the impact exerts forces on the string bed leading to more tension loss. The minute losses are permanent. If you continue to hit, a diviation in string properties start to show up. Nylons will continue to stretch and turn mushy. Polyesters start to work harden and become even stiffer. There is still an element of elasticity in the string, however very large forces are required to make the string elastic. The Hulk could do it, but wimpy humans can’t. Poly string are dead when you cannot hit the ball with enough force to feel any elasticity.

if you cut a tight fresh poly string, note how far the ends separate. Cut dead but still stiff poly string and you will see the ends not move because they are no longer elastic.

So you meen that lost string tenison and "dead strings" are two different things. With nothing common?! You can still have good string tension, but dead strings, correct?

 

[Rolv]

Yes, even after 3-4 hours, I can do a blind test and pick out fresh poly vs. used poly every time. Much prefer to always play with fresh strings, which is the main reason I have my own machine.

So you mean that lost string tenison and "dead strings" are two different things. With nothing common?! You can still have good string tension, but dead strings, correct?

 

[Shroud]

So you mean that lost string tenison and "dead strings" are two different things. With nothing common?! You can still have good string tension, but dead strings, correct?

I think that is correct. TT university had a paper on strings going dead and there were 2 ways iirc. One was tension loss and one was notching. We all have bits of both to deal with in reality. Prestretching helps with tension loss. Hitting wimpy helps with notching. Or string savers.

 

[kailash]

Do you keep poly for that long in your racket without your arm complaining?

Depends on the type of poly, and the string pattern.

Soft poly - less than 2 months
Normal poly - 2 to 3 months
Kirschbaum and MSV polys - last for several months!
Luxilon 4G - lasts forever, but breaks the arm!

 

[Booger]

So you mean that lost string tenison and "dead strings" are two different things. With nothing common?! You can still have good string tension, but dead strings, correct?

Yes imo poly loses elasticity long before tension is completely gone.

 

[TennisLogic]

Yes, even after 3-4 hours, I can do a blind test and pick out fresh poly vs. used poly every time. Much prefer to always play with fresh strings, which is the main reason I have my own machine.

But it takes so much time

 

[Booger]

But it takes so much time

30 minutes per frame, while I'm watching women's pole vaulting videos on YouTube (trust me). Not so bad.