Djokovic or Nadal, who is the better US Open player?

[Tsongerer]

Djokovic:
3x Win
5x Final
3x Semifinal
0x Quarterfinal
2x R16
2x R32
0x R64
0x R126

Win-Loss: 75-12 (86.2%, including the PCB disqualification)

Nadal:
4x Win
1x Final
3x Semifinal
1X Quarterfinal
2x R16
2x R32
2x R64
0x R126

Win-Loss: 64-11 (85.3%)

Nadal has 1 more USO slam and he leads the USO H2H with 2-1. However, general consensus is that Nole's peak play at the USO (2011/2015) was at a higher level than Nadal's peak play (2010/2013) and he has the better overall results (reached the semis or further more often and has a better win percentage). Who do you consider the better US Open player in their peak and over their careers?
I would say peak USO Nole (2011-2015) is comfortably better than peak USO Rafa (2010-2013) and it took some flukes (easy draws for Rafa, Nole being in a slump post RG16 up to Wimby 2018, having to face his stylistic nemesis Wawrinka several times and being disqualified for hitting a line ref) to have Rafa above Nole in the US GS tally.

 

[octogon]

Nadal. More titles, better H2H. Defeated Novak in 2 finals.

This one should be a no-brainer, but Djokovic fans have always been in denial about it.

 

[Tennis_Freak99]

Nadal as of now, but things could change quick. A Djokodal USO final in the near future can sway the discussion in a completely new direction

 

[PerilousPear]

Peak - Novak because 2011
Generally - Rafa because 3<4

 

[Milanez82]

Looking at all those numbers Djokovic has underperformed

 

[StrongRule]

Nadal's peak level in USO was in 2010. IMO it is up there with Djokovic's USO 2011 level (a match between them could be one of the best ever slam finals), and definitely better than any other version of Djokovic there.

Nothing surprising about this thread though. Nadal is always being underrated in USO, while Djokovic is being massively overrated. Djokovic had one great run in USO 2011, and even that year he should have lost to Federer in the semifinals. In the other 2 times he won it he wasn't that great, they looked easier than 2011 mostly because of lack of competition. Nadal's best runs were not any worse. People as always confuse consistency with peak level. I really have to give this one to Nadal. He also skipped USO 3 times, he could be even better there...

 

[Tostao80]

Looking at all those numbers Djokovic has underperformed

Truly. 3 wins from 8 finals, and consisting he's the greatest hard court player of all time.

 

[Deleted member 771911]

How can this be a serious question?
Nadal has four titles, Djokovic has three.
Nadal beat Djokovic in two finals, and Djokovic was a slam winner going into each one.

 

[Deleted member 748597]

That epic precision is worth one more USO title.

 

[RS]

Similar level.

 

[ForehandCross]

Federer kind of stopped Djokovic from winning 3 more opens.
2012 Final was kinda unfortunate too.

Young Djokovic was reaching Finals /SF back to back every year.

Wait a moment has he even lost before semis from 2007-16? And I think he didn't play 2017 and won in 2018.

So it took 13 full years for him to lose before semis?

It's Djoker by a landslide.

 

[RS]

.

 

[RS]

Federer kind of stopped Djokovic from winning 3 more opens.
2012 Final was kinda unfortunate too.

Young Djokovic was reaching Finals /SF back to back every year.

Wait a moment has he even lost before semis from 2007-16? And I think he didn't play 2017 and won in 2018.

So it took 13 full years for him to lose before semis?

It's Djoker by a landslide.

Del Potro is the favourite in 09 over Djoker. 07 with Roddick is close too. Hard to assume Djoker is the favourite for all 3.

 

[StrongRule]

Federer kind of stopped Djokovic from winning 3 more opens.
2012 Final was kinda unfortunate too.

Young Djokovic was reaching Finals /SF back to back every year.

Wait a moment has he even lost before semis from 2007-16? And I think he didn't play 2017 and won in 2018.

So it took 13 full years for him to lose before semis?

It's Djoker by a landslide.

What consistency has to do with peak level? Winning the big matches is part of the process of winning titles, you know. Or you also think Murray is better than Wawrinka in AO?

 

[NatF]

Nadal peaked higher. Both guys vultured three straight titles between them (2017-2019) with largely unimpressive play. Nadal's 2010 tops Djokovic's best though imo .

 

[Nole_King]

Nadal. More titles, better H2H. Defeated Novak in 2 finals.

This one should be a no-brainer, but Djokovic fans have always been in denial about it.

Somewhere in the TTW threads Nadal fans were equating/pushing up Nadal over Federer @ USO.

 

[StrongRule]

Somewhere in the TTW threads Nadal fans were equating/pushing up Nadal over Federer @ USO.

Only a troll would do that. Federer is still the greatest USO player. However, this thread is also a troll thread which tries to bring down Nadal.

 

[ForehandCross]

What consistency has to do with peak level? Winning the big matches is part of the process of winning titles, you know. Or you also think Murray is better than Wawrinka in AO?

LOL.

Insane consistency? Check.
Insane peak ? 2011 Check.
Toughest possible Career long opponent in Federer ? Check.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Even.

 

[InsideOut900]

Nadal peaked higher. Both guys vultured three straight titles between them (2017-2019) with largely unimpressive play. Nadal's 2010 tops Djokovic's best though imo .

I wouldn't say 2017 was largely unimpressive.
He was quite close to 2013 form actually. He looked very sharp for a 31 years old Nadal.

2013 was the overrated one because people compare it to 2010 and it's not even close levelwise.

2010 Nadal vs 2011 Djoker depends on Novak's ability to serve better than 2011 final. From the baseline, he was amazing in sets 1, 3 and 4 of the 2011 final, but the serve meant a lot for Nadal in 2010, so that would swing the match in his favour probably.

 

[mike danny]

Truly. 3 wins from 8 finals, and consisting he's the greatest hard court player of all time.

Not yet.

 

[demrle]

Nadal. More titles, better H2H. Defeated Novak in 2 finals.

This one should be a no-brainer, but Djokovic fans have always been in denial about it.

Only a no-brainer would call this a no-brainer so it's good that you stopped short of doing so.

 

[ND-13]

I would say on par.

Peak level, Nadal 2010 = Djoker 2011

Nadal’s 2017 and 2019 USO are comical to say the least. Djokovic 2018 pretty much in the same ballpark.

 

[StrongRule]

As I see it, Nadal reaching 20 slams brought some of his haters to a new level.

 

[Nole_King]

Only a troll would do that. Federer is still the greatest USO player. However, this thread is also a troll thread which tries to bring down Nadal.

A reasonable non-trolling discussion can be done on this topic, but I guess that is becoming impossible these days.

 

[Jonesy]

Djokovic peaked at lineswoman neck.

 

[demrle]

Since I don't subscribe to the theory that one title is better than 100 lost finals, I'd say that Djokovic is overall more successfull, though not by much.

I don't know nor do I think it's particularly important who had a higher peak. Not to mention that that's totally subjective and we could argue till the cows come home.

 

[Tsongerer]

I would say on par.

Peak level, Nadal 2010 = Djoker 2011

Nadal’s 2017 and 2019 USO are comical to say the least. Djokovic 2018 pretty much in the same ballpark.

Why do you consider Nadal 2010 equal to Nole 2011? In fact, I consider the 2011 final the result of Nole reaching his peak (which is higher than Nadal's in non clay slams). 2011 Nole beat 2011 Nadal comfortably in 4 sets in at the USO (and should have in 3). Nole was considerably better than in 2010, but Nadal was not that much worse than a year before. He was just outclassed. Look at Nole's 2010 vs 2011 stats and do the same for Rafa. Where can you find anything to suggest Rafa at the USO11 was considerably worse than a year before?

EDIT:
Nadal in those years without counting Djokodal matches:
2010: 69-10
2011: 69-9

 

[StrongRule]

Since I don't subscribe to the theory that one title is better than 100 lost finals, I'd say that Djokovic is overall more successfull, though not by much.

I don't know nor do I think it's particularly important who had a higher peak. Bot to mention that that's totally subjective and we could argue till the cows come home.

How anyone can prefer losing finals instead of winning titles is beyond me.

 

[StrongRule]

Why do you consider Nadal 2010 equal to Nole 2011? In fact, I consider the 2011 final the result of Nole reaching his peak (which is higher than Nadal's in non clay slams). 2011 Nole beat 2011 Nadal comfortably in 4 sets in at the USO (and should have in 3). Nole was considerably better than in 2010, but Nadal was not that much worse than a year before. He was just outclassed. Look at Nole's 2010 vs 2011 stats and do the same for Rafa. Where can you find anything to suggest Rafa at the USO11 was considerably worse than a year before?

EDIT:
Nadal in those years without counting Djokodal matches:
2010: 69-10
2011: 69-9

LMAO. Yeah, Nadal serving better than ever in USO 2010 is the same thing as him serving weak even by WTA standards in 2011. Definitely the same thing. Nadal hitting with lots of power in 2010 is the same thing as doing nothing but hitting short topspin balls to Djokovic's backhand in 2011. Thanks for proving my theory of this being a troll thread.

 

[Tsongerer]

LMAO. Yeah, Nadal serving better than ever in USO 2010 is the same thing as him serving weak by WTA standards in 2011. Definitely the same thing. Nadal hitting with lots of power in 2010 is the same thing as doing nothing but hitting short topspin balls to Djokovic's backhand in 2011. Thanks for proving my theory of this being a troll thread.

Back it up with stats clown. Nadal was 69-10 in 2010 and 69-9 in 2011 if you exclude Djokodal matches. His serve never proved to be a problem for Nole, so even if he served better how would that change the tides that much? (Nole won in 4 in 2011 and deserved to win in 3). And the reason Nadal hit his balls shorter and weaker were because Nole stepped up his game and started to hit much deeper.

Again, show me stats that proof Nadal was a worse fast HCer in 2011 than in 2010. You can't. The stats are not on your side in this argument.

 

[demrle]

How anyone can prefer losing finals instead of winning titles is beyond me.

Who said anything about preferring to lose? You should try harder. Of course you always want to win the final, but when you talk about who's been more successfull overall, you need to consider all aspects. That's also why for me Murray is more successfull than Wawrinka at the AO, like I said in another thread.

One win is not automatically better than any number of lost finals. Your accountant agrees with me, as well as the ATP ranking algorythm.

He also skipped USO 3 times, he could be even better there...

That's a particularly strong argument and I would suggest that a player gets awarded a title for every four events he misses.

 

[StrongRule]

Back it up with stats clown. Nadal was 69-10 in 2010 and 69-9 in 2011 if you exclude Djokodal matches. His serve never proved to be a problem for Nole, so even if he served better how would that change the tides that much? (Nole won in 4 and deserved to win in 3). And the reason Nadal hit his balls shorter and weaker were because Nole stepped up his game and started to hit much deeper.

Again, show me stats that proof Nadal was a worse fast HCer in 2011 than in 2010. You can't. The stats are not on your side in this argument.

Excluding matches is not a stat, LOL. Yeah, serve was never a problem. This is why Nadal got broken just 3 times in USO 2010 final and 3 times in USO 2013 final. In the 2011 final he was broken 11 (!!!) times. Of course you will say Djokovic was terrible in 2010 and 2013 but just better in 2011.

Any person who watched both matches understands that Nadal was much better in the 2010 final, it is not even close. The stats of both matches (especially winners and unforced errors) also show the big difference was more in Nadal's level, not Djokovic's. Finally, the only stats I need is that Nadal has 4 USO titles (and this is when he skipped it in 3 years!) and leads the head to head 2-1.

What will be your next thread-claiming that Nadal was at his peak in RG 2015 and thus Djokovic being the better player in RG as well? I'll not be surprised.

 

[NatF]

I wouldn't say 2017 was largely unimpressive.
He was quite close to 2013 form actually. He looked very sharp for a 31 years old Nadal.

2013 was the overrated one because people compare it to 2010 and it's not even close levelwise.

2010 Nadal vs 2011 Djoker depends on Novak's ability to serve better than 2011 final. From the baseline, he was amazing in sets 1, 3 and 4 of the 2011 final, but the serve meant a lot for Nadal in 2010, so that would swing the match in his favour probably.

Don't really rate 2017, I agree that 2013 is overrated but still better than 2017 where he wasn't sharp early and had three opponents from the QF who could only play one good set between them.

Djokovic as you said couldn't really serve in 2011 final. Deffo think 2010 Nadal gets him there.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Nadal. More titles, better H2H. Defeated Novak in 2 finals.

Exactly. Why is this question even being asked? OP might want to begin a thread, “Who had the higher peak at the Australian Open: Djokovic or Wawrinka?”

 

[octogon]

How anyone can prefer losing finals instead of winning titles is beyond me.

It's called the Andy Murray defense. Apparently you can consider Murray an ATG because he lost so many slam finals to Djokovic and Federer. LOL!

Lost finals mean nothing compared to actual titles. If Ivan Lendl had a better slam final conversion rate, he'd be in the GOAT debate. But he didn't and isn't. If Andy Roddick didn't lose so many slam finals to Federer, he might be an ATG. But he did lose them and he isn't.

4>3

Extra lost finals might be a tiebreaker metric if they have the same amount of titles, but no more.

 

[Lew II]

Matches vs Federer:

Djokovic 6
Nadal 0

 

[StrongRule]

Matches vs Federer:

Djokovic 6
Nadal 0

Such a relevant stat to "who had the higher peak".

 

[RS]

This thread is already starting to become a reck. It is close whicheverway both peak level and career.

 

[UnforcedTerror]

Djokovic is way better player with higher peak and consistency.

Anderson & Berrettini Opens don't make Bull better in any way, shape or form.

 

[StrongRule]

Djokovic is way better player with higher peak and consistency.

Anderson & Berrettini Opens don't make Bull better in any way, shape or form.

Keep crying.

 

[UnforcedTerror]

Keep crying.

I'm just telling the truth and you know it. Bull has been extremely at USO while Djokovic has been extremely unlucky. Nobody can deny that even Bull himself.

 

[StrongRule]

I'm just telling the truth and you know it. Bull has been extremely at USO while Djokovic has been extremely unlucky. Nobody can deny that even Bull himself.

LOL, extremely unlucky. No, he just wasn't good enough. If you lose to Nishikori, can't win a title after 3 walkovers, get a DQ...This is not bad luck. There was no year when Djokovic was the best player in USO and didn't win it. He deserved to lose every time when he lost it. Leave alone the fact that he actually won with relatively easy competition in 2015, and very easy competition in 2018.

 

[octogon]

I'm just telling the truth and you know it. Bull has been extremely at USO while Djokovic has been extremely unlucky. Nobody can deny that even Bull himself.

Nadal beating alleged hardcourt GOAT Djokovic in US Open finals TWICE in or near Novak's prime, isn't "luck".

Novak managing to get past-his-prime old man Federer for 3 Wimbledon finals, is luck. Inflated his Wimbledon stats because of the lack of prime grass competition. Even a fit Murray would have taken more Wimbledon titles off Novak

 

[I Am Finnish]

Djokovic because 3>4

 

[Third Serve]

I know I’ve picked on Nadal’s USO draws plenty before, but to be fair he did play some great tennis to win 2010 and 2013 (the latter two are a bit suspect, but perhaps 2017 ain’t all that bad), especially 2010. IMO 2010 Nadal beats 2011 Djokovic at USO. But as to the better player overall at the event, I may say they’re even.

 

[Start da Game]

nadal is breathing down fraud's neck at us open, who's djokovic here?

 

[Deleted member 775898]

When the draws opened up for them, Nadal aimed for the titles, while Djokovic aimed for the lineswoman's throat. You need to take advantage of your chances when you have them, can't let them go to waste.

 

[DSH]

Nadal.
One more title than his rival and in fewer participations.
In addition, Joker has anger management problems that harm him not only sportingly speaking but also his image in public has been damaged.

 

[metsman]

Ned 10/13 on par with Djok 11/15 and besides that neither guy really has another very high level run although obviously Djokovic destroys him on quantity.