mehdimike
Hall of Fame
I got it
Fedal could've won the majority of their Slams since 2011 without Djokovic
- Thread starter Lew II
- Start date
Lewie, Lewie, Lewie, why don't you start the list with GS played in 2011?
at the end of the day, you want to convince everyone that it's no the decline in Fedal since 2011, it's the rise of Novak since 2011, don't you?
but for some weird reason, your argumentation begins with 2017.
what happened with 2011 - 2016?
did these years got deleted from ultimatetennisstatistics.com? and from atptour.com? and from the entire Internet?
D
Deleted member 748597
Guest
Nadal wanted to have his era of brutal domination in 2010-12. Djokovic eventually ruined his plans.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
No, it'a like saying Federer declined in 2008 compared to 2007, which isn't true apart from the 3 first months of 2008.
Federer received medieval clearance to play normally on February 2008. RG 2008 and WB 2008 were 4-5 months after that, and Federer had totally recovered. He was winning WB 2008 without dropping a set if not for Nadal and later he went on to win the US Open 2008 destroying Murray and Djokovic. 2008 Federer won his 5th US Open in a row and would have won his 6th Wimbleodn in a row if not for Nadal, meaning he was the same in 2007 than in 2008 excluding the first 2-3 months.
Federer was 26 years old and healthy at RG 2008 (reached final), WB 2008 (would have won without Nadal) and 27 at the USO 2008 (which he won). Everybody agrees Thiem is at his absolute peak now in 2020 aged 27, and so was Djokovic aged 28 in 2015 and Nadal in 2013 aged 27.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Nadal already has his 2010, only season in the history of the tennis where a male player wins Slams on 3 different surfaces, and the 2006-2015 decade with 13 Slams (more than anyone).
P. S.: Djokovic wanted to have his era of brutal domination in 2012-2014 but Nadal eventually ruined his plans winning 4 consecutive Slam matches against Djokovic (RG 2012, RG 2013, USO 2013, RG 2014). Djokovic has never won 4 consecutive Slam matches against Nadal.
D
Deleted member 748597
Guest
Your posts are so predictable, lol.
Azure
G.O.A.T.
Bamoos
Semi-Pro
The two aren’t exclusive.
Bamoos
Semi-Pro
Federer 08 was worse than 07 all year long except possibly the USO. His results and level of play support this.
Peaks aren’t some scientific measurement. Just because Djokovic had one of his best seasons aged 28, doesn’t mean everyone will.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Oh some of them were at RG, I see.
Bamoos
Semi-Pro
Man Djokovic was just too good. Fedal were as good as ever with modern medicine and physios etcDjokovic vs Fedal in finals/semis since 2011:
AO: 5-0
WI: 5-1
UO: 3-1
YEC: 4-0
Total score of 17-2 in the biggest hard/grass matches
Druss
Hall of Fame
Sport, there is so much wrong with this post. 2008 for Fed was more like Nadal’s 2014 if anything. You really think that was peak Fed playing in that RG F? Lol even Nadal’s rubber ducky Ferrer would have done better. How could you even compare that abysmal Fed to say his 2006/07/11 performances? And please don’t bring in the age. All ATGs had their poor showings during their prime years. How many Masters did Roger win in 2008? zilch! Compare that to the previous four years were he was winning 2-4 per year. You’d like to remind us how he did in the Olympics (singles) and WTF that year? What about all the losses he suffered to every Tom, Dick and Harry? His win/loss % for that year was the second worst in the 2003-15 period. Obviously only the horrific 2013 season was worse. I’m not taking away anything from Nadal’s Wimby victory that year. He was superb. But please don’t hype up 2008 RF as though it was absolute peak Fed.
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
2011 was still peakDal. Some just have a hard time admitting that Peakovic is just better
Down_the_line
Legend
Well no ****.
abmk
Bionic Poster
LOL, wut ?
Fed won YEC in 2007, didn't even get to SF in 2008 (only time he hasn't done so).
Fed won 2 masters in 2007, zero in 2008.
Made 3 more masters finals in 07, 2 masters finals in 08.
RG 2007 fed >> RG 2008 fed
Wim 2007 fed was slightly better than Wim 2008 fed
USO 2007 fed slightly better than USO 2008 fed
Its a no contest b/w 2007&2008 (even after first 3 months each).
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
I corrected that for you.2011 was still peakDal. Some just have a hard time admitting that Peakoviciswas just better
But seriously, when an ATG like 2011 Djokovic emerges out of the blue, you would not be ready for that kind of challenge Immediately. You need to put a lot of time and effort to analyze his game and try to come up with plans. You might employ different tactics in different games to finally (if you have the potential!) be able to adjust. Also the mental part is important as well. I think AO 12 was the time that Rafa finally believed that he could beat Novak again.
D
Deleted member 775898
Guest
So going by delusional Djokovic fans who claim that Fedr was at his peak at 33-34, does that mean Djokovic is at his peak right now ? Welp, I guess peak Nole not strong enough to deal with Timmy and Meddy, who kinda owned him lately.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
More like RAFA wasn't ready for that kind of challenge immediately.I corrected that for you.
But seriously, when an ATG like 2011 Djokovic emerges out of the blue, you would not be ready for that kind of challenge Immediately. You need to put a lot of time and effort to analyze his game and try to come up with plans. You might employ different tactics in different games to finally (if you have the potential!) be able to adjust. Also the mental part is important as well. I think AO 12 was the time that Rafa finally believed that he could beat Novak again.
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
And I meant Rafa
Or you meant sth else?!
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I thought you mean anyone.And I meant Rafa
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
I meant Rafa BUT actually it could be anyone.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
That's the thing, it's not anyone. Roger dealt with the threat better.
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
Roger had to deal with Nadal only on clay and that's all. He didn't face another ATG for the most of his 2003-07 run.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
And grass. You can't just erase 2 Wimb finals and pretend like they never happened.
Besides, that's not what I was talking about. Roger dealt with 2011 Novak better than Rafa. Not bad for a weak era beneficiary.
ForehandRF
Legend
Djokovic became a better player in 2011, no doubt, but one thing that is often overlooked is that both hardcourt slams that year were the slowest up to that point and that was perfect for him, kinda like the USO was perfect for Fed's game back when he started to dominate in 2004.
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
2006 Nadal was not an ATG grass courter, level-wise I mean. Nadal formed his game to beat Federer. Djokovic needed to beat fedal together to be able to claim #1 and win slams. Federer had lost to Novak in slams prior to the 2011 encounters and he didn't feel much pressure, at least less than Nadal. On the other hand, Nadal for the first time lost to Djokovic in 2011 and at WI of all places where he hadn't lost to anyone bar Federer since 2006. So probably Rafa needed some time to change the situation. OR maybe 2011 Novak was higher than any level Nadal could show on any tennis court and only Novak's decline would help him, nobody knows - but that's a possibility too.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
So? 2020 Djokovic wasn't an ATG clay courter, likewise 2010 Djokovic wasn't an ATG hardcourter.
Nevertheless, 2006 Nadal still played a decent to good Wimb final. Sets 2 and 3 were some of his best sets on grass.
Regardless, even when he had lost in slams prior to 2011 against Novak, he still wasn't at 2011 level. All things considered, he was in the same situation as Rafa.
Last edited:
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
Yes, 2010 Djokovic was not an ATG hardcourter. 2020 Djokovic had the resume but never reached that goaty clay level of his 2011-16 verions.
You mean Roger was not at the level to beat Novak?! I didn't get the bolded part.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
You were talking about level, ergo 2020 Djokovic wasn't an ATG clay courter.
By the bolded, I meant that even though Fed lost a couple of slam matches to Novak prior to 2011, Novak himself was not at 2011 level. It was more Fed being poor in them, especially USO 2010, where neither player was good, unlike 2008 AO where at least Novak was GOATING.
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
Federer was 29 in 2010 well past his best years while Nadal was still peaking on Hardcourt.
And I agree with you he wasn't. I just mentioned even if someone tries to bring his previous achievements that does not relate to his level and form. Nobody would say Nadal beat a great Djokovic at RG 2020 in the future (except Nadal fans
).
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Still think 2006 Nadal at Wimb > 2020 Djokovic at RG, even if neither was an ATG level wise.Federer was 29 in 2010 well past his best years while Nadal was still peaking on Hardcourt.
And I agree with you he wasn't. I just mentioned even if someone tries to bring his previous achievements that does not relate to his level and form. Nobody would say Nadal beat a great Djokovic at RG 2020 in the future (except Nadal fans
RS
Bionic Poster
Nadal Wim 06 >> Djokovic RG 20 imo.
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
Slams Fedal won until 2010 --> 25
Slam Fedal either won, or lost to Djokovic since 2011 --> 28
They could've even won 13 of the last 14 Slams they took part in without Nole!
2017 AO win
2017 RG win
2017 WI win
2017 UO win
2018 AO win
2018 RG win
2018 WI lost to Djokovic
2018 UO lost to Delpo/Millman
2019 AO lost to Djokovic
2019 RG win
2019 WI lost to Djokovic
2019 UO win
2020 AO lost to Djokovic
2020 UO skipped
2020 RG win
Puts to sleep the excuse that Fedal declined in 2011.
this just makes the tour look bad, rather than boosting Djokovic. Think about it, weak era fraud could have been a dominant champ 8-10 years post peak. Truly the weakest era
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
He was obviously still prime but he didn’t serve as well as 2010, move as well pre-Madrid 09, and started off the year with a muscle tear in Oz. Prime and close to peak, but not peak. It’s like calling 2012 or 13 Djokovic Peakovic.
Bamoos
Semi-Pro
Tbf Djokovic didn’t face any ATG level between 14-16 either, nor did Nadal in 2010.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Djokovic didn't in 2014-2016 and Nadal didn't in 2010 and Djokodal haven't in 2017-present.
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
Except each other
mike danny
Bionic Poster
And as has been proven, it didn't matter as they haven't been competition to each other outside of 1 match for the last 6 years.Except each other
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