RealBrotzu
Rookie
Ljubicic-upgraded 2017 Federer plays 2014 W final and 2015 W and USO finals against Djokovic. What would the outcome be?
Federer 2017 vs Djokovic in 2014-2015 W and USO finals
- Thread starter RealBrotzu
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Maestroesque
Professional
Federer would win it all 
maratha_warrior
Hall of Fame
In 2017-18, Fed won against Rafa & Cilic at Wimbledon n AO.
2014-15 Novak never lost to Rafa & Cilic .
So clearly Novak wins.
But if 2017 Novak plays against 2017 Fed, Fed wins easily.
2014-15 Novak never lost to Rafa & Cilic .
So clearly Novak wins.
But if 2017 Novak plays against 2017 Fed, Fed wins easily.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Wins 14, loses 15
Maybe wins 15 USO too. Djok was begging to lose that but Fed folded even more
Maybe wins 15 USO too. Djok was begging to lose that but Fed folded even more
D
Deleted member 756486
Guest
Novak still wins all.
He was near unstoppable in 2015 (unless your name is Stan Wawrinka)
He was near unstoppable in 2015 (unless your name is Stan Wawrinka)
chut
Professional
Yep, that's my guess too.
W14 was a curious match, neither player played bad or great tennis, a better Federer would win it.
In 2015, Djokovic was playing better, but his USO performance was barely on par with his level this year and he could very well have lost to a more clutch Federer, it's hard to know.
EloQuent
Legend
your math doesn't add up. If A > B and C > B, we have no information to tell us if A > C or C > A
EloQuent
Legend
or Ivo Karlovic
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Indeed.
Djoker has never been much good at the USO, or at least not up to his usual standard. He was down MP in 2011 and was pretty lucky to win the 2015 final too. Lots of bad losses there as well.
2015 Federer beat 2015 Djoker multiple times as it is, so 2017 Mental Strengtherer would have a good shot at winning the US Open.
2015 Wimby is a different story. Djoker had it together that day. Would have taken prime Fed to win that one.
Pheasant
Legend
2014 Wimby: 2017 Fed win 6-4, 3-6, 6-4, 7-5
2015 Wimby: 2017 Fed wins 6-4, 5-7, 6-3, 6-7, 11-9
2015 USO: Djokovic wins 6-2, 4-6, 7-6, 6-1
Nobody is beating Djoker 3 times in a row. But I think that the Federer that became the only man to win Wimby without dropping a set takes out Djokovic at Wimby. His improved backhand and serving would have been too much for Djokovic. But by the USO, Djokovic would have been furious and too deadly for 2017 Fed.
2015 Wimby: 2017 Fed wins 6-4, 5-7, 6-3, 6-7, 11-9
2015 USO: Djokovic wins 6-2, 4-6, 7-6, 6-1
Nobody is beating Djoker 3 times in a row. But I think that the Federer that became the only man to win Wimby without dropping a set takes out Djokovic at Wimby. His improved backhand and serving would have been too much for Djokovic. But by the USO, Djokovic would have been furious and too deadly for 2017 Fed.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
I'm unconvinced that Djoker would lose Wimb 2015. He was dialled in that day, it wasn't a particularly close match.
Federer really should have won one of those three slam finals as it is. He has no business losing multiple Wimb finals to anyone, even though he was obviously pretty declined in those two.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Overtaking Djok at the AO has been revenge enough though.
You just know that Fed reeling off the last two AOs has bothered Djokovic lol, after he thought he had his foot firmly on Fed's throat after their 2014/15 slam finals.
And then he got the IW/Miami double too - I can picture Djok being filthy about that.
You just know that Fed reeling off the last two AOs has bothered Djokovic lol, after he thought he had his foot firmly on Fed's throat after their 2014/15 slam finals.
And then he got the IW/Miami double too - I can picture Djok being filthy about that.
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fedtennisphan
Hall of Fame
But Federer 2017 is creating a lot more ruins.
Prabhanjan
Professional
Nole takes it all!
fedtennisphan
Hall of Fame
If Djokovic didn’t suck so hard, they would have played but some were just hoping Federer wouldn’t be around to make players like Djokovic or Nadal have to work hard. If Federer wasn’t around, certain players wouldn’t be under any pressure to maintain a certain level because they wouldn’t be threatened.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
I don't think it gets enough mention how tough it must be for Nadal and Djokovic knowing that if they slip up then Fed very quickly gets away from them.
He has 30 slams without those guys, and still has 20 with them. And they know it.
They have to play perfectly.
Not to be better than him - they know that's always been out of reach - but just to keep him from making a mockery of the sport and making them look second-rate.
That's hard. Good on them for keeping at it for as long as their bodies have allowed.
He has 30 slams without those guys, and still has 20 with them. And they know it.
They have to play perfectly.
Not to be better than him - they know that's always been out of reach - but just to keep him from making a mockery of the sport and making them look second-rate.
That's hard. Good on them for keeping at it for as long as their bodies have allowed.
RealBrotzu
Rookie
And nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row!
vex
Legend
Think this is overstating it. All 3 would have won more without the others. All of them have to play close to thier current year best to beat the others. Feds on top bc he’s been a little bit better about not getting upset. He almost always wins the matches he SHOULD win - I.e he didn’t lose out on slams b/c he got upset by Kei or Stan or Murray. Case in point: he quietly collected the last 2 slams against a good not great Cilic. The other 2 gave up upsets they shouldn’t have.
As for the present, u can’t act like Fed never had his own injury downswing. Too early to write off Novak. Novak could still pass Rafa if he gets it together.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I think 2017 Fed wins 2014 Wimb, but not 2015 Wimb.
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
Some people seriously underestimate the beast that Djoker used to be...
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I agree with you. I think the larger racket has allowed him to neutralize Nadal by stabilizing his backhand (and therefore eliminating Nadal’s greatest strength against Federer) but I think his overall quality of play was better in 2014-2015.
I suspect 2017 Fed would lose those matches even worse.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
It's a good question.
Regarding the thread: Federer will always be able to beat any player at Wimbledon but I'd give the 17 version the edge at 14 W. Tougher on the 15 one, Djokovic probably played some of his best tennis on grass in that final and made Federer seem lost out there.
At USO, Fed 17 version is not beating 15 Djokovic at USO. Federer was terrible for his standards in last year's edition and went out in the QFs.
Fed at USO 15 was unbelievably good and destroyed his opponents to the final not dropping a set. I think if they replay the 15 USO final Djokovic is not getting out of that one in four sets.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
2017 Fed is not beating 2015 Djoker at Wimb. It takes 2003-2006 Fed for that. That's how good Djoker was.
2014 Wimb Djoker wasn't as good IMO. 2017 Fed with better ground game and confidence could edge out Djokovic in 4 tough sets, with 2 tiebreaks involved. Kinda like FO 2011 where Fed won both tiebreaks.
I agree 2015 Fed played great at the USO. He just chocked too much.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Nah. 2017 Fed had a better ground game than 2014 Fed.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
How come when Fed wins and he doesn't look great everyone defends him by saying "he did just enough to win."
Some criticize Novak in the 14W and 15USO as being vulnerable and not playing great. I'd argue he did just enough to win. I have no reason to think he couldn't up his game another level if he was pushed harder.
Some criticize Novak in the 14W and 15USO as being vulnerable and not playing great. I'd argue he did just enough to win. I have no reason to think he couldn't up his game another level if he was pushed harder.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Novak at 2014 Wimb almost did just enough to lose though.
Mazz Retic
Hall of Fame
ghostofMecir
Legend
Interesting question and impossible to answer, obviously.
In the 2014 Wimbledon final, Federer put on an all-time serve clinic with 69% first serves in but with not much pace. It was all about placement as he hit line after line after line. His groundstrokes had nothing on them as his FH was getting used to the new stick and the BH we see today wasn’t there.
Djokovic played well and served well. If Federer had the groundstrokes today after he’s gotten used to the new racket, he’d have more chances to break and perhaps stave off more break points. But there’s no guarantee he’d serve as well, so I don’t know. Djokovic won all the rallies on second serve which I don’t think would happen with the new Federer BH return and BH and mentality. I don’t know but I think ND is still the slight favorite.
In the 2015 Wimby final, the early break Fed lost in the first set changed everything. Fed was coming off a high after that Murray match but he exerted himself as it were a final the way he went for the running FH and it showed in the final. He didn’t have thst burst. Djoko again won all the rallies on second serve which might not happen with the new BH and mentality. I think there’s a higher chance for improvement here for Fed as he didn’t serve quite as well and the improvement in the groundstrokes brought about by trust in the new stick would help immensely. But ND played better here than in 2014 and served really well with pace and placement.
The 2015 USO I think is a win for Federer. Just his mentality and new BH would allow him to win more break points and change thst match around. He should have won that match as it is.
In the 2014 Wimbledon final, Federer put on an all-time serve clinic with 69% first serves in but with not much pace. It was all about placement as he hit line after line after line. His groundstrokes had nothing on them as his FH was getting used to the new stick and the BH we see today wasn’t there.
Djokovic played well and served well. If Federer had the groundstrokes today after he’s gotten used to the new racket, he’d have more chances to break and perhaps stave off more break points. But there’s no guarantee he’d serve as well, so I don’t know. Djokovic won all the rallies on second serve which I don’t think would happen with the new Federer BH return and BH and mentality. I don’t know but I think ND is still the slight favorite.
In the 2015 Wimby final, the early break Fed lost in the first set changed everything. Fed was coming off a high after that Murray match but he exerted himself as it were a final the way he went for the running FH and it showed in the final. He didn’t have thst burst. Djoko again won all the rallies on second serve which might not happen with the new BH and mentality. I think there’s a higher chance for improvement here for Fed as he didn’t serve quite as well and the improvement in the groundstrokes brought about by trust in the new stick would help immensely. But ND played better here than in 2014 and served really well with pace and placement.
The 2015 USO I think is a win for Federer. Just his mentality and new BH would allow him to win more break points and change thst match around. He should have won that match as it is.
Pheasant
Legend
Touché.
Pheasant
Legend
2014-2015 Fed vs 2017-2018 Fed
2014-2015:
133-22 overall
32-11 vs top 10
6-7 vs Djokovic
26-4 vs top 10 not named Djokovic
2017-2018
59-5 overall
15-2 vs top 10
Even if we back out Djokovic, Federer’s winning pct has still improved modestly. And 2017-2018 saw the return of a beast-mode Nadal.
Based on the numbers, Fed has improved solidly from his 2014-2015 time frame. I think that all of it is due to his backhand. I have seen Fed win rallies when players have continually gone to his backhand. Better yet, I have seen Fed even neutralize Nadal’s forehand with his backhand, which is something that has never happened.
This version of Fed is far more balanced than the 2014-2015 version. I would put this version of Fed on par with his 2007 season. But of course, he isn’t nearly as durable as that version. But his peak is right there, with the exception of his 2007 AO, the last of beast-mode Fed.
2014-2015:
133-22 overall
32-11 vs top 10
6-7 vs Djokovic
26-4 vs top 10 not named Djokovic
2017-2018
59-5 overall
15-2 vs top 10
Even if we back out Djokovic, Federer’s winning pct has still improved modestly. And 2017-2018 saw the return of a beast-mode Nadal.
Based on the numbers, Fed has improved solidly from his 2014-2015 time frame. I think that all of it is due to his backhand. I have seen Fed win rallies when players have continually gone to his backhand. Better yet, I have seen Fed even neutralize Nadal’s forehand with his backhand, which is something that has never happened.
This version of Fed is far more balanced than the 2014-2015 version. I would put this version of Fed on par with his 2007 season. But of course, he isn’t nearly as durable as that version. But his peak is right there, with the exception of his 2007 AO, the last of beast-mode Fed.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
I agree here. I don't think 2017 Fed beats Djokovic in the 2015 USO final. He still would have choked away endless BO opportunities, though the match probably would have gone five, in which Nole wins the fifth going away. He has all those mental scars from the blown MP's in the 2010/11 USO semis as well.
But 2017 Fed defeats Novak on grass. It's still cringe worthy as a Fed fan that he lost to him on grass. Novak has outperformed on grass more than any other guy in the history of tennis. Of course he benefited massively that today's grass is a joke compared to the way Wimbledon played pre-2003. Lendl was a better grass court player and of course, never broke through there.
Man, I got sick watching Federer play flawless tennis in SFs and then wilt in the F. It was tragic. I mean see the WTF 2015 final after beating Djokovic in the RR stage. It was as if he'd accepted he was supposed to lose the big finals.
He's won three to make up for those losses so I can't complain.
Then we have another question: Why should 2003-06 have been better Wimbledons than the 2017 edition where he didn’t lost a set? He was never so far away from being in trouble like this last Wimbledon. And if the competition was better or not is subjective. Yes, 2006 he had a very young Nadal, but especially 2003 is always a bit overrated. I mean Philippoussis in the final is surely not better than Cilic or Berdych. The only problem were the nerves in his first Slam final.
And by the way, I don't dispute he was consistently better in 2006, but I only talk about Wimbledon...
EloQuent
Legend
Just because his competition in 03-05 was similar to 17, doesn't mean he wouldn't have beaten better players too then.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
2003 Wimb is mostly known for his masterclass against Roddick in the semis.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
It is simple. In 2003-2006 he was at the best of his abilities. And yes, the competition in 2003-2006 was arguably better than in 2017. Roddick, Hewitt, Nadal >> what he faced in 2017. We're talking Wimb only.
Zetty
Hall of Fame
This. It's really a coin toss on 2014 though but imma go with Fed.
That’s right, but Roddick is not the player who could trouble Roger when the latter plays decent tennis. 2009 was an anomaly where Roddick played out of his skin at times and Federer was subpar. 2003 was the normal matchup with Roddick getting passed left and right. No doubt it was a great performance, but I think Roger would have dismantled this same Roddick in the same fashion with his Wimbledon 2017 performance.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Federer W 2017 IMO in better shape than Djokovic W 2014 - That would probably be the only one
Federer W 2017 would lose to Djokovic W 2015 - That was Djokovic's greatest peak on grass
Federer USO 2017 was worse than Federer USO 2015, no way he beats Djokovic USO 2015
Federer AO 2017 would lose to Djokovic AO 2016 - The semi and final were sickeningly high levels of tennis from Djokovic
All four slams, take Djokovic out of the equation, Federer IMO sweeps
Federer W 2017 would lose to Djokovic W 2015 - That was Djokovic's greatest peak on grass
Federer USO 2017 was worse than Federer USO 2015, no way he beats Djokovic USO 2015
Federer AO 2017 would lose to Djokovic AO 2016 - The semi and final were sickeningly high levels of tennis from Djokovic
All four slams, take Djokovic out of the equation, Federer IMO sweeps
mike danny
Bionic Poster
What about 2004 Wimb where again Roddick played very well and did give Fed a scare.
I don't think 2003 encapsulates how their match-ups go generally.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Roddick in 03 was better than anyone in 17, Scud was at least as good as Berdych. Hewitt/Roddick were much better in 04 than anyone in 17, Grosjean maybe around the same level as Berdych. Hewitt in 05 was better than anyone in 17, Ferrero/Kiefer/Roddick were as good as anyone in 17. Ancic/Nadal in 06 were better than anyone in 17.
So no, it's not the same competition.
FHtennisman
Professional
The Federer FH has also improved markedly from 2014-15, not sure how that can be measured using a stat but via the eye test, he certainly is hitting it with more authority and point-ending power than he did in the big tournaments back 3-4 years.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
You mean the first two sets of the semi and the first set of the final. The rest was more about clutchness.
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