Federer vs Nadal Who Is Ahead As Of Now?
- Thread starter Neptune
- Start date
Evidence of rigged draws. From '08-10, Federer and Nadal were #1, 2; Djokovic was either #3 or 4, Murray #4 or 3. For '11, Djokovic and Federer exchanged places. So the concept remains the same,
C means check (Federer and Djokovic in the same half), N mean No in the table. So the chances of Fed/Djoko in the same half was always .5; the chances of them being in opposite half was .5. Horizontal tabulation indicates AO/RG/WB/US.
08 CNCC
09 CCCC
10 CNCC
11 CCCC
So only RG draws were fair. Either RG didn't participate in the scheme or the organizers didn't think it was necessary for Nadal to emerge as champion. For the other 3 slams, Federer always shared the same half as Djokovic. What was the chances of the 3 slams having C for 4 straight years? .5^12=.000244=.0244%. So the chances of a fair draw was .0244%.
C means check (Federer and Djokovic in the same half), N mean No in the table. So the chances of Fed/Djoko in the same half was always .5; the chances of them being in opposite half was .5. Horizontal tabulation indicates AO/RG/WB/US.
08 CNCC
09 CCCC
10 CNCC
11 CCCC
So only RG draws were fair. Either RG didn't participate in the scheme or the organizers didn't think it was necessary for Nadal to emerge as champion. For the other 3 slams, Federer always shared the same half as Djokovic. What was the chances of the 3 slams having C for 4 straight years? .5^12=.000244=.0244%. So the chances of a fair draw was .0244%.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
You guys are still talking about this?
RS
Bionic Poster
TTW got it rightYou guys are still talking about this?
Neptune
Hall of Fame
You missed it, RG is as bad if not worse.
Clay is Nole's and Fed's worst surface, and there is ultimate clay specialist Rafa, just check how many times Nole on Rafa's side of the draw.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Guess this means djokovic was federer in disguise all along...
BauerAlmeida
Hall of Fame
Anyone who brings up Roddick amongst Baghdatis, Philippoussis, Gonzalez etc...is a moron. The irony of those poster being Djokovic fans with his slam finalists in recent years as well
Yep, same for Hewitt who destroyed Sampras in a slam final.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Hewitt is very underrated IMO. The crazy defence to offence the Big 3 made their hallmarks was done first by Hewitt in the modern era. He had some stuff.
Entername
Professional
And a 24-16 advantage in the H2H which is by far the most lopsided match-up among the big 3
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Entername
Professional
Hewitt walked so Rafa/Novak could run
Entername
Professional
Objectively it's Rafa now, 2022 Australian Open was basically Rafa's checkmate of Fed
Pros for Rafa:
- More majors
- More Masters
- More Olympic Gold Medals
- Positive H2H record overall, at slams, and slam finals
- Better career win %
- Double career slam
- Dethroned Fed at his best slam (Fed never did the same on Rafa)
- Longevity (won a slam 17 years apart from his first vs 14.5 years for Fed)
Pros for Fed:
- Week at Number one
- YEC Titles
- Godly peak (no other player had a 4-year stretch like Fed did from 2004-2007)
Ties:
- Year-end number one
Pros for Rafa:
- More majors
- More Masters
- More Olympic Gold Medals
- Positive H2H record overall, at slams, and slam finals
- Better career win %
- Double career slam
- Dethroned Fed at his best slam (Fed never did the same on Rafa)
- Longevity (won a slam 17 years apart from his first vs 14.5 years for Fed)
Pros for Fed:
- Week at Number one
- YEC Titles
- Godly peak (no other player had a 4-year stretch like Fed did from 2004-2007)
Ties:
- Year-end number one
Clay lover
Legend
Look dude, Djokovic already has the records now. But some Djo fanatics don't want just the facts. They want every subjective, untestable or arguable thing to be in their favour. Rigged draws? All Nadal's and not Djokovic's. Weak era? Fedal's and not Djokovic's. Injuries? Only Nadal fakes them and not Djokovic. Skew? Only clay and not hard is considered a skew because the main surface is hard now (it wasn't the case decades ago).
Why the obsession to own everything and not instead just he happy with the records?
Why the obsession to own everything and not instead just he happy with the records?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
They’re not very happy people lol
Breakpointerer
Legend
I mean, no one would trade down 2 Slams and a TCGS either, and yet...
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
What’s this mean? Fans are being fans?? Lol of course. I don’t think Novak is better than Rafa but im not gonna sit here and act like he doesn’t have the numbers.
Breakpointerer
Legend
By the same token, Fed fans can believe Rafa isn't better than Fed despite him having more Slams without it being mocked as a ridiculous opinion, is my point.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I know lol, I don’t have an issue with that. But saying it like it’s concrete and there’s no way Nadal is ahead is a problem bc literally it would be downright foolish for a Nadal fan to trade 2 slams down and give up a DCGS and H2H. Feel how you feel all you want, just like I do, but don’t be ridiculous about it.
Breakpointerer
Legend
Sure that's fair.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
They all have an argument for GOAT. Really they are all equal in different ways
Its just that no Novak fans would give up what he has for Rafa’s career and no Rafa fan would give up what he has for Federer’s.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Which would be less lopsided without that 2013-early 2014 period. Nadal didn’t show up during his own slump
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Megalomania
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
These are the type of “fans” that started watching in 2016 acting like they were getting on some winning horse that would pay out for them lol. Tennis ain’t out here paying none of our bills
(well besides yours bc you knew Nadal would slay )
GoatNo1
Professional
fed is also better on 3 out of 4 slams and 2 out of 3 surfaces + indoors
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
GoatNo1
Professional
because it is possible and even quite likely!
Clay lover
Legend
Yeah man to some of them beyond records, this guy has the best principles, is universally wronged by the West, the best philanthropist, the most genuine, has the strongest draws, suffered the most during the war, the only person who doesn't dope vs dirty Nadal, doesn't fake injuries, has manners when he loses, has swagger when he mocks the crowd...
I'm like ok dude...maybe Nadal's got Octo but no other person genuinely believes Fedal are Gods...
And even if you do, what has that got to do with you to the point where you have to convince strangers on the Internet about it LOL
Good bc Rafa wouldn’t either
roger would rather be #2 GOAT behind djokovic than #1 clay GOAT ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Entername
Professional
Still not enough to overtake all the advantages Rafa has on Fed
Entername
Professional
I don't think Rafa would trade his results for Fed's either tho...
Entername
Professional
It was lopsided from day one lol Fed had a hard time beating high school and college-aged Rafa. The H2H is the least excusable part of Fed's legacy imo with the exception of 2017, his top rival almost always had his number
GoatNo1
Professional
that is your opinion. in the global there are many more who think it does than those who agree with you!
Federer vs Nadal Who Is Ahead As Of Now?
What’s amusing is you trying to say that Fedovic saved RAFA by beating Davy for him thus allowing him to win GS on HC more easily…when he wasn’t even making it to them in the first place lol. If he was in RAFA’s side of the draw he wouldn’t be making it to him either. Most of the time he was...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
Entername
Professional
A lot of those votes occurred when Fed was still the goat/slam leader and some of those other votes are from fans who are still living in the past. I just can't put someone with 2 less slams, only a single career slam, and a poor H2H record over someone with 2 more slams, double career slam, and owned their H2H recordthat is your opinion. in the global there are many more who think it does than those who agree with you!
Federer vs Nadal Who Is Ahead As Of Now?
What’s amusing is you trying to say that Fedovic saved RAFA by beating Davy for him thus allowing him to win GS on HC more easily…when he wasn’t even making it to them in the first place lol. If he was in RAFA’s side of the draw he wouldn’t be making it to him either. Most of the time he was...
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
There is a GOAT, and his name is Shawn Michaels
GoatNo1
Professional
no, some of them was when rafa was a solo leader and non of them when fed was a leader
look at the same question as in this topic (for 2 months ago):
Tennistic Productions
Who has a better career?
63 943 votes
fed 64%
rafa 36%
.....
GOAT question (3 months ago)
Who is the Tennis GOAT?
107 020 votes
nole 69%
fed 20%
rafa 9%
other 2%
Hitman
Bionic Poster
There is a GOAT, and his name is Shawn Michaels
Best in ring performer, yes, for sure. And I say this having watched multiple Michaels matches live at Wrestlemania.
GOAT though is more than that when it comes to pro wrestling.
Entername
Professional
Idk it just doesn't feel right to put someone with 2 less slams, only a single career slam, and a poor H2H record over someone with 2 more slams, double career slam, and owned their H2H recordno, some of them was when rafa was a solo leader and non of them when fed was a leader
look at the same question as in this topic (for 2 months ago):
Tennistic Productions
Who has a better career?
63 943 votes
fed 64%
rafa 36%
mike danny
Bionic Poster
And I'm saying that it's 24-16 only because Fed showed up 5 times during his own slump to take his beating while Nadal did not reciprocate. 19-15 isn't lopsided anymore in that case.
I'm only explaining why it's 24-16 the way it is, not that Fed didn't lose to him from day 1.
GoatNo1
Professional
I think they are quite similar in career achievements right now. but if I have to choose one, I choose fed precisely because he is much greater at 2 out of 3 surfaces. rafa has 2 more slams but it's a 10% lead. he is way behind for weeks (fed has almost 50% more) and WTFs.
i can think they are equal, you think it's rafa but most tennis lovers in the world still see fed as a more accomplished player than rafa and by a large margin.
Entername
Professional
Slams are by far the biggest metric in the sport though and 2 majors is a lot to overcome (think about all the players in the tennis HOF who won 2 majors in their whole careers).
Also while Fed has a big edge in weeks at number one, they have an even amount of YE Number Ones at 5 each which is tennis' way at giving a season MVP award to a player
Entername
Professional
You could do that for any H2H though, if Rafa didn't play Novak 7 times in 2015/16, he'd be leading their H2H 29-23 lol
Only in your deluded mind
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Dlt.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
How can there be a GOAT if it is scripted and accomplishments are not real? We might as well say Bud Spencer is the GOAT fighter in movies.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
Fed won 4 slams in 10 years from 2010 RG to 2020 AO. He is no longer ahead of Nadal.
Nadal won 14 slams in same time period. He wasn't number 1 in all this time, contended with djokovic.
How Nadal achieved such success?? He won RG in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2020 vs Djokovic (3 finals and 4th virtual final) and 2 USO finals (2010 and 2013) and won all of them. That's 6 slams Nadal won vs Djokovic.
Fed did absolutely nothing. 1 Wimbledon semifinal is frankly nothing to compare to what Nadal achieved. And its federer's mental muggery. 2010 USO, 2011 USO, 2019 Wimby, these slams he handed Djokovic victory. He was choking far too often. And now he is third.
Nadal won 14 slams in same time period. He wasn't number 1 in all this time, contended with djokovic.
How Nadal achieved such success?? He won RG in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2020 vs Djokovic (3 finals and 4th virtual final) and 2 USO finals (2010 and 2013) and won all of them. That's 6 slams Nadal won vs Djokovic.
Fed did absolutely nothing. 1 Wimbledon semifinal is frankly nothing to compare to what Nadal achieved. And its federer's mental muggery. 2010 USO, 2011 USO, 2019 Wimby, these slams he handed Djokovic victory. He was choking far too often. And now he is third.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
its also quite possible, depends on how we assess/look at it, if we will use more objective and unbiased method to estimate it and trying to count the gap in all parameters which is again more fair than just count only a gap in slams.. then.. e.g. if we take six biggest parameters, h2h, weeks, yec, ye1, olympics and slams where slam is worth of ten points, weeks and ye1 are worth of six points and other three are all four points.. and then sum it up, for fred its 200+0+21+48+24+30=323, for ndal its 220+4+32+32+0+30=318, so fred slightly ahead and leads by five points, i.e. in other words ndal needs to win one slam to be ahead (328>323)
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Its not about winning for real.
Its about how you tell the story in the ring, the ring psychology, the ability to protect yourself and the wrestler who is entrusting you with his/her body, to bring heat to the match, to increase the crowd engagement, to do promos that sell tickets, merchandise, and PPV buys, to create unique move sets, to be a ring general and carry your opponent through the match, to do it day after day, week after week, year after year.....
If you think just because it is scripted that there isn't a GOAT, you don't really understand what it is all about. All due respect.
A lot of this question comes down to ones view of the season end finals. Federer beat 29 top 8 level players for his 6 wins .Fed vs Rafa
Slam Titles: 20 vs 22 (F+: 31-30, SF+: 46-38, QF+: 58-47)
Total Slam Points: 70855 vs 64600
Note: On Djokovic's strongest surface, Federer faced him nine times in hardcourt Slam before the final, while Nadal faced him zero times. I believe that kind of advantage in the Slam draw alone is worth more than two Slam titles.
YEC: 6 vs 0
Masters: 28 vs 36
OG: 0 vs 1
CGS: 1 vs 2
3-Slam Season: 3 vs 1
Total Titles: 103 vs 92
Big Titles: 54 vs 59
Weeks@1: 310 vs 209
Consecutive Weeks@1: 237 vs 56
Win%: 81.91% vs 82.96%
Top5 Wins: 104 vs 93
Top10 Wins: 223 vs 186
H2H: 16 vs 24
ATP Points: 164000 vs 149000
GOAT Points: 924 vs 885
Achievement ranking points: 131.0 vs 119.66
USO draw rigged for top two seeds? Espn reported 2011AUG10 and 2011AUG11.
One chart depicting 12 consecutive non-clay Slam draws highlights the absurdity of the rigging, just tip of the iceberg. (addons: From Miami08 to Doha11, Davydenko 6-0 making Rafa his pigeon on HC, but all the 6 HC slams they both participated, Davy is always on the same side as his master Fed, never on the same side as his pigeon Rafa.)
The math: 23 consecutive heads in coin tosses, Rafa truly requires assistance, particularly on hardcourts, to reach the finals.
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