Finally figured out how to beat a pusher consistently. Just keep slicing!

[topspinnerMN]

I used to hit big forehands and backhands, nothing worked with this guy who keeps getting everything back without pace. I would get a few points here and there with short angles, coming to the net and volleying, or winners on my forehand but that strategy resulted in more unforced errors on my part and he would eventually win. So now I just slice a lot. He doesn't hit with lot of pace. So I just slice deep, do a drop shot, lob him, drop shot, slice deep to the right, and slice short to the left and so on. He would eventually can't keep up anymore and I win the point. He is getting tired while I just move a few feet here and there, barely breaking a sweat. My drop shots don't have to be perfect but good enough to keep him guessing where I'm going to go next. This works for me because I rarely do any mistakes on my slices. 95% of my slices and drop shots stay in. Slicing keeps him guessing where as with my forehands and backhands, he can easily tell where I'm going. Somehow none of the youtube videos talk about this strategy. They all say come to the net or bring him to the net etc.

 

[Rosstour]

I play a lot of kids at tournaments because I'm not very good, and at some point they will all start moonballing. When that happens I start slicing immediately. No more "well, I'll run myself ragged as a good faith effort to show that I'm giving my best effort and eventually he'll stop"

Slice immediately and don't stop

 

[LuckyR]

To put it a different way: yes, playing high consistancy tennis against a high consistancy opponent evens up the match.

 

[socallefty]

bring him to the net etc.

Isn’t that what you are doing with your slice drop shots and short, angled slices?

 

[topspinnerMN]

Isn’t that what you are doing with your slice drop shots and short, angled slices?

I guess that is correct but the key here is they never mention using slice a lot, a highly reliable shot for most players. Mine if more of a tire the pusher out strategy instead of passing him when he is at the net. All most all videos talk about passing pusher with regular forehands but that leads to errors on my part or him being able to volley my passing shot. This pusher is 6' 2'' so it isn't easy to lob either as he has good overheads.

 

[johnmccabe]

I thought good pushers have no problem with slice except for high quality knifing slice. MEP?

 

[topspinnerMN]

I thought good pushers have no problem with slice except for high quality knifing slice. MEP?

He doesn't have a problem with my slice. He keeps getting them back too. I just keep on slicing all over the court with high consistency and he eventually misses one as he gets tired. This guy can handle everything - big serves, forehands etc. I just have to tire him out without getting myself tired. For me, slice takes very little effort compared to big forehands or two handed backhand. I can keep on slicing for 100 shots without missing any.

 

[georgeyew]

Sounds like you are becoming a pusher to beat a pusher.

 

[topspinnerMN]

Sounds like you are becoming a pusher to beat a pusher.

That is correct. My regular game doesn't work with him.

 

[Ronaldo]

Welcome!

 

[Fintft]

He doesn't have a problem with my slice. He keeps getting them back too. I just keep on slicing all over the court with high consistency and he eventually misses one as he gets tired. This guy can handle everything - big serves, forehands etc. I just have to tire him out without getting myself tired. For me, slice takes very little effort compared to big forehands or two handed backhand. I can keep on slicing for 100 shots without missing any.

So he can handle your big forehands and serves? You sound like you want to play pusher style against him.

 

[georgeyew]

That is correct. My regular game doesn't work with him.

Whatever you need to do to get the W. Good job.

 

[Ronaldo]

So he can handle your big forehands and serves? You sound like you want to play pusher style against him.

Just Win Baby,

 

[topspinnerMN]

So he can handle your big forehands and serves? You sound like you want to play pusher style against him.

Yes, I can hit like 5 or 6 big forehands and they comeback just fine and then I make an error. Same with serves, my first serves come back all the time. So I prefer a pusher style than trying to overhit my forehands.

 

[fuzz nation]

I used to hit big forehands and backhands, nothing worked with this guy who keeps getting everything back without pace. I would get a few points here and there with short angles, coming to the net and volleying, or winners on my forehand but that strategy resulted in more unforced errors on my part and he would eventually win. So now I just slice a lot. He doesn't hit with lot of pace. So I just slice deep, do a drop shot, lob him, drop shot, slice deep to the right, and slice short to the left and so on. He would eventually can't keep up anymore and I win the point. He is getting tired while I just move a few feet here and there, barely breaking a sweat. My drop shots don't have to be perfect but good enough to keep him guessing where I'm going to go next. This works for me because I rarely do any mistakes on my slices. 95% of my slices and drop shots stay in. Slicing keeps him guessing where as with my forehands and backhands, he can easily tell where I'm going. Somehow none of the youtube videos talk about this strategy. They all say come to the net or bring him to the net etc.

Some pushers have better movement than others and some know how to slice, while some don't. Your case is pretty cool because it sounds like your pusher opponent needed to redirect your pace in order to hit shots with decent placement. When you sliced, he couldn't control you so much. Well done.

Don't let anybody give you a hard time if you're slicing a lot. Some of them might just be jealous because they can't hang. I consider that shot to be among the essentials for every player at just about every level, but the preoccupation with developing big baseline strokes with lots of topspin has marginalized it a good bit.

 

[socallefty]

Yes, I can hit like 5 or 6 big forehands and they comeback just fine

I wonder if you hit your topspin shots more into the middle third of the court and your slices are more angled near the sidelines. If so, you could be making your opponent hit on the run more with the slice and troubling them.

If you pick your target carefully and hit 5 or 6 big FHs including some into open space near the lines, they should not be coming back or the FH is not that ‘big’. When you are in a neutral ball rally, you should either be trying to open up space (left-right or up-down) on the court or take time away (hit hard, hit deep at them, hit behind them) from the opponent as the point develops.

 

[tendency]

Yes, I can hit like 5 or 6 big forehands and they comeback just fine and then I make an error. Same with serves, my first serves come back all the time. So I prefer a pusher style than trying to overhit my forehands.

It's not just about hitting big forehands back up the middle as you have seen; you need placement and accuracy which it sounds like your game lacks. Sooner or later any pusher will give you a ball that you can crush for a winner if you have pace AND good directional control.

 

[Yamin]

Sounds like you are becoming a pusher to beat a pusher.

The only way to beat a pusher of same level is to be a better all around player.. For 2 years straight I've played nothing but pushers, the good ones you gotta "mess with".

 

[tendency]

The only way to beat a pusher of same level is to be a better all around player.. For 2 years straight I've played nothing but pushers, the good ones you gotta "mess with" but it's really just constructing points.

ill summarize this notion of 'point construction' as: you get a ball that you can handle and hit it where your opponent ain't.

 

[socallefty]

ill summarize this notion of 'point construction' as: you get a ball that you can handle and hit it where your opponent ain't.

I think of point construction in terms of creating open space, taking time away or preying on a weakness.

Examples of creating space: Lefty kick serve wide on deuce and then put away +1 FH to ad corner, Lefty slice serve wide on ad and +1 inside-out FH to deuce corner, Hit lefty FH more and more wide to righty BH with each shot until I get a shorter ball that I can hit DTL into the FH corner for a winner or forcing shot, hit deep a few times to force opponent well behind the baseline and then drop shot.

Examples of taking time away: Hit hard/deep to the body preferably on BH side of opponent till I get a short ball that I can put away, get opponent running and then hit behind them to force an error, approach and volley to put pressure and force them to hit passes/lobs on the run

Examples of preying on weakness: If BH is weak then serve and hit mostly to the BH, if weak OH then lob a lot, if weak net game then bring them in, if weak at moving up/down then drop shot and lob or hit short angles and lob.

 

[tendency]

I think of point construction in terms of creating open space, taking time away or preying on a weakness.

Examples of creating space: Lefty kick serve wide on deuce and then put away +1 FH to ad corner, Lefty slice serve wide on ad and +1 inside-out FH to deuce corner, Hit lefty FH more and more wide to righty BH with each shot until I get a shorter ball that I can hit DTL into the FH corner for a winner or forcing shot, hit deep a few times to force opponent well behind the baseline and then drop shot.

Examples of taking time away: Hit hard/deep to the body preferably on BH side of opponent, get opponent running and then hit behind them, come in and volley to put pressure on them to hit passes on the run

Examples of preying on weakness: If Bh is weak serve and hit mostly to the BH, if weak OH lob a lot, if weak net game bring them in, if weak at moving up/down then drop shot and lob or hit short angles and lob.

isn't that what i said?

 

[socallefty]

isn't that what i said?

No. You just addressed what to do if you get a chance to hit an offensive shot and there is open space somewhere on the court. Point construction is how to get to an offensive shot or how to create that open space.

 

[tendency]

No. You just addressed what to do if you get a chance to hit an offensive shot and there is open space somewhere on the court. Point construction is how to get to an offensive shot or how to create that open space.

i just fundamentally disagree; there is no such thing as conscious point construction; there is only hard won experience from countless matches.

 

[Curious]

; there is no such thing as conscious point construction; there is only hard won experience from countless matches.

This is very interesting. Does this mean your options are not many at any given time during the point and it becomes sort of automatic/intuitive in terms of what shot to hit with lots of experience? The standard, boring, ‘point construction tennis’! Then we have the very exciting to watch full of surprises players like Kyrgios and Hsie Su Wei.

 

[Yamin]

I just mix junk and clown around then finish an easier ball.

 

[ey039524]

You're basically out-grinding your opponent. You just happen to be more consistent slicing than you are hitting w topspin.

 

[slipgrip93]

nothing worked with this guy who keeps getting everything back without pace. ... he can easily tell where I'm going. Somehow none of the youtube videos talk about this strategy.

Yes, I can hit like 5 or 6 big forehands and they comeback just fine and then I make an error. Same with serves, my first serves come back all the time. So I prefer a pusher style than trying to overhit my forehands.

I'm wondering if your big forehands are going deep and placed enough. Even a 'pusher' forced to be defensive and on the run, eventually will have limited time to get a good ball back that won't end up being a sitter or setup for a nice putaway that most 4.0's can manage. Maybe your opponent's more of a good defensive player with good and fast footwork anticipating your shots rather than a typical "pusher".

 

[dannyslicer]

Topspin sits up and is easy to return.
Slice is low and is harder to return.
This is tennis 101

 

[ratherlosethanpush]

Topspin sits up and is easy to return.
Slice is low and is harder to return.
This is tennis 101

Not sure if people who've faced rafa would agree with this.

As someone with an Eastern fh grip who played other sports like table tennis where spin is far greater I've basically had no issues with slices from the outset, topspin can be figured out too.

Against slice to topspin it all you need to do is continue the spin, against topspin you need to overcome it first.

If you alter the axis of spin from the incoming both of these get even easier.

 

[travlerajm]

He doesn't have a problem with my slice. He keeps getting them back too. I just keep on slicing all over the court with high consistency and he eventually misses one as he gets tired. This guy can handle everything - big serves, forehands etc. I just have to tire him out without getting myself tired. For me, slice takes very little effort compared to big forehands or two handed backhand. I can keep on slicing for 100 shots without missing any.

You’re going to need a new username.

 

[travlerajm]

Topspin sits up and is easy to return.
Slice is low and is harder to return.
This is tennis 101

Unless you are Rafa.