Grunting and Time Violations

[T. H. Park]

Get the whole article here written by Navratilova. Agree with a lot of what she is saying, in particular, time violations and the grunting :

"Top of the list is grunting, screeching, shrieking, whatever you want to call it. I call it cheating and it’s got to stop ... I believe it may initially have been employed to put other people off. "

"It’s the same thing with time violations. Umpires must crack down on players such as Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal, who bounce the ball so many times before serving. A time clock should be placed on every court to ensure the allowed period between points is not exceeded. Hardly anyone takes notice these days when the umpire calls time."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article6446197.ece

 

[woodrow1029]

I'm not saying that I am glad that Nadal and Djokovic lost earlier in Roland Garros, but it was very peaceful with out time violation arguments during the second week.

SHOT CLOCKS ON COURT WILL NOT WORK!!!!

 

[woodrow1029]

Maybe Federer should have gotten a time violation for holding up Soderling's serve when the spectator jumped on court in the final. Since we all know that you think every time the time is exceeded a time violation should be given.

 

[Jchurch]

Her notion to bring back smaller head sizes is absolutely crazy. I do agree with the grunting and time violations. More so with her opinion that the grunting is detracting.

 

[Kegzz]

Grunting is sometimes involuntary though. It could be toned down, but really the courts would never be the same without the familiar grunt of Sharapova, Nadal or anyone else.

 

[MsDeb]

i agree with just about everything she says, but not the smaller rackets. that'd be difficult to do. and... good for her for doing an article about this. she's just saying what everyone else is thinking. (everyone except Sharapova and the like)

 

[vtmike]

Grunting is sometimes involuntary though. It could be toned down, but really the courts would never be the same without the familiar grunt of Sharapova, Nadal or anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVfCcBzMeA0

 

[kanamit]

Maybe Federer should have gotten a time violation for holding up Soderling's serve when the spectator jumped on court in the final. Since we all know that you think every time the time is exceeded a time violation should be given.

Nobody here has said that a penalty should be administered *every* time the time limit is exceeded. Obviously the chair umpires would have discretion. Why is it that everytime people advocate the reasonable enforcement of anti-shrieking and anti-stalling rules that the response is inevitably a caricature of the original proposal?

 

[Deleted member 21996]

Her notion to bring back smaller head sizes is absolutely crazy. I do agree with the grunting and time violations. More so with her opinion that the grunting is detracting.

what about Agassi and Chang? they were using OS's...

Martina fails once more...

 

[woodrow1029]

Nobody here has said that a penalty should be administered *every* time the time limit is exceeded. Obviously the chair umpires would have discretion. Why is it that everytime people advocate the reasonable enforcement of anti-shrieking and anti-stalling rules that the response is inevitably a caricature of the original proposal?

Because of the history of the OP that does think that every time the time is assessed it should be a point penalty after the initial warning. He doesn't believe that the chair umpire has discretion in the matter. (See the thread titled, "time violations" shockingly started by the same OP.

 

[slicefox]

ye the whole grunting thing is bullsht.

people who do it are a bunch of wussies.

 

[tonyg11]

ye the whole grunting thing is bullsht.

people who do it are a bunch of wussies.

people need to start distinguishing between a grunt due to unusual amounts of effort and a SCREAM. Those WTA players are SCREAMING NOT GRUNTING. If a male player grunts due to a 20 stroke power rally that's fine. SCREAMING on every point is no. Please lets seperate the two.

 

[T1000]

if you're gonna pull a wta (larcher de brito, sharapova) there has to be a penalty, that screaming is just unecessary. time violations need to be enforced too, but not all the time. I understand on a big point or after a long one, but after an easy point are playing something like 15-0, there is no need to wait 30-35 seconds to play

 

[Jchurch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVfCcBzMeA0

If that is grunting or screaming is involuntary, then Federer will win the next 10 slams. I think that it is highly distracting to your opponent and that Nadal, Sharapova, Venus, and Serena do it to distract their opponents.

 

[IvanAndreevich]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVfCcBzMeA0

Holy crap. Never seen De Brito play before this, and I am glad. What a joke!

She takes so long to finish up her scream after hitting a groundie that it actually probably negatively impacts her ability to breath in after hitting the shot. It's slightly delayed.

 

[ninman]

what about Agassi and Chang? they were using OS's...

Martina fails once more...

Sorry what's an OS?

 

[subaru3169]

my ears.. the ringing won't stop..

 

[subaru3169]

Sorry what's an OS?

oversize..

 

[ninman]

oversize..

Sorry you need to spell out the point he was trying to make to me. What's that got to do with Navratilova wanting to reduce raquet head sizes?

 

[rommil]

My proposals.....

Grunters- make them wear a mic and earphones that magnify their grunts and all the sound goes to their earphones that they will "hear" themselves loud and loud.

Time Violators- supply tennis balls that self deflates after 25 seconds when not hit that way the server may lose that turn.

 

[Deleted member 21996]

Sorry you need to spell out the point he was trying to make to me. What's that got to do with Navratilova wanting to reduce raquet head sizes?

i believe that somewhere in your fedtared neurons there is a place for logical iterations? if so... please follow my point....


Martina was around by the tiume agassi and chang were winning with Oversized frames... did she complaint back them? was this such a major advantage to them?...

i belive that martina has a point though... but she should be talking about maximal stiffness allowed... and poly, not the size of the frame!|

 

[Power Player]

Martina knows more about tennis then everyone here. I agree with her definitley about the screaming part. It has ruined women's tennis for me. I hate hearing these girls make so much noise when they don't even hit the ball THAT hard half the time.

The small frames thing is a reach IMO, but she is definitley right about advertising and uniform ball.

 

[PatrickB]

I agree that something needs to be done about some of the more egregious shrieking going around, and I'd like to see something done on time violations, too. In particular, I'd like to see the 20 second rule once players and the court are ready to begin play (e.g. have balls to serve and the audience quiet) enforced. This would still give the chair discretion to allow players to towel off and brush clay off themselves, for example, but not sit and bounce the ball 35 times at the service line before serving.

 

[PatrickB]

The bigger issue is that, from a practical point of view, it would require that that professional players agree to these changes. Getting changes that they'd be comfortable with and that are enforceable is going to be tricky.

 

[jmverdugo]

people need to start distinguishing between a grunt due to unusual amounts of effort and a SCREAM. Those WTA players are SCREAMING NOT GRUNTING. If a male player grunts due to a 20 stroke power rally that's fine. SCREAMING on every point is no. Please lets seperate the two.

I agree.

About the OP. Navratilova has a point with the grunting and some other stuff but I completelly disagree on some other points like the size of the racket and let on services, I saw some college matches the other day and it is ridiculous when the ball hits the net at service and the receiver has to run like crazy to see if he can get the ball.

 

[vtmike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVfCcBzMeA0

In this video Sharapova is even screaming on drop shots!! :shock: :lol:

 

[kimizz]

Its weird but the shrieking or grunting or whatever, it has never bothered me that much. I dont know if it is because of volume, certain broadcasters or what. I dont understand whats the big deal? Also I dont agree with the argument that everyone is able to play without grunting. And its cheating??!! To me its almost as if someone said "playing backhand with two hands shouldnt be allowed becuase I hit it with one hand, i dont have a problem with it so others should hit with one hander too." I assume many have developed their grunting habits over the years and they are not that easy to just stop.

About time violations: certain commentator once said that in a match an umpire said to Rafa Im sorry but I have to give you a warning. Nadal's response was that dont apologize, its your job. You do your job I do mine. Of course I cant confirm this in any way, it was just something that a commentator mentioned.

I think there should be common sense with time violations. During big points the crowd alone will make noise for over 20 seconds so its impossible to keep it in the rules. But if someone does it all the time from the beginning then it should be made clear in the beginning of the match that its not allowed. And this is a job for the umpires not players. Just keep the flow of the game smooth, no need to be anal about it.

 

[NamRanger]

Because of the history of the OP that does think that every time the time is assessed it should be a point penalty after the initial warning. He doesn't believe that the chair umpire has discretion in the matter. (See the thread titled, "time violations" shockingly started by the same OP.

I think when it is blatantly obvious that a player is stalling after he has been given a warning he should be given a point penalty. Aka like Nadal.

 

[pennc94]

I agree that something needs to be done about some of the more egregious shrieking going around, and I'd like to see something done on time violations, too. In particular, I'd like to see the 20 second rule once players and the court are ready to begin play (e.g. have balls to serve and the audience quiet) enforced. This would still give the chair discretion to allow players to towel off and brush clay off themselves, for example, but not sit and bounce the ball 35 times at the service line before serving.

Yes, but then players would get their fans to not settle down soon enough allowing more time. I wish there was an easy answer to the stalling. Maybe they should just ban all the towel wiping between every point (unless they fall on clay). If they do not go for the towel between every point, that may recover an additional 10 seconds!

 

[coolhandluke]

those girls grunt just to bother their opponents. The grunts always get louder on crucial or important points.

 

[theprophe]

I really like those grunting dropshots,lol

 

[Blade0324]

I really find no merrit in what she is saying at all. The racquet head size is dumb, the time and grunting are really no big deal. I don't see why everyone thinks is a big issue. It really not. Sorry

 

[sstchur]

This is a load of crap. Tennis players are a bunch of babies. Ever been to a football or baseball game? Those players don't complain about being distracted and it's crazy loud.

Not only should you be allowed to grunt, but the fans in the stands should be allow to talk and shout and carry on as much as they like while the points are going on.

If you're a pro tennis player, you're an athlete -- you've got to deal with the conditions. Forget this crap that you "need silence" so you can "concentrate" while you're player. Screw that. Toughen up. Deal with it, or go home.

 

[imalil2gangsta4u]

if my opponent was grunting on drop shots, ide call them out for sure. thats just ridiculous.

 

[Blade0324]

This is a load of crap. Tennis players are a bunch of babies. Ever been to a football or baseball game? Those players don't complain about being distracted and it's crazy loud.

Not only should you be allowed to grunt, but the fans in the stands should be allow to talk and shout and carry on as much as they like while the points are going on.

If you're a pro tennis player, you're an athlete -- you've got to deal with the conditions. Forget this crap that you "need silence" so you can "concentrate" while you're player. Screw that. Toughen up. Deal with it, or go home.

One of the best most logical posts on this topic I've seen. Agree 100%

 

[tonyg11]

there we go again comparing Tennis to Football or Baseball. Might as well compare your post to the planet Mars.

 

[peter_pan91]

This is a load of crap. Tennis players are a bunch of babies. Ever been to a football or baseball game? Those players don't complain about being distracted and it's crazy loud.

Not only should you be allowed to grunt, but the fans in the stands should be allow to talk and shout and carry on as much as they like while the points are going on.

If you're a pro tennis player, you're an athlete -- you've got to deal with the conditions. Forget this crap that you "need silence" so you can "concentrate" while you're player. Screw that. Toughen up. Deal with it, or go home.

BS, you CANNOT compare tennis to sports like football soccer and baseball, do you even play tennis, do you have an idea of the concentration required when playing tennis?

you wouldn't even hear the ball for christ sake, it would be painfull to watch

 

[ninman]

i believe that somewhere in your fedtared neurons there is a place for logical iterations? if so... please follow my point....


Martina was around by the tiume agassi and chang were winning with Oversized frames... did she complaint back them? was this such a major advantage to them?...

i belive that martina has a point though... but she should be talking about maximal stiffness allowed... and poly, not the size of the frame!|

I don't know enough about Martina Navratilova to comment about it. I don't even know what an oversized frame is to be honest. I just watch tennis matches. The only thing I think about it is that everybody has access to the same equipment, so nobody should have an unfair advantage over someone else.

 

[tenis]

Get the whole article here written by Navratilova. Agree with a lot of what she is saying, in particular, time violations and the grunting :

"Top of the list is grunting, screeching, shrieking, whatever you want to call it. I call it cheating and it’s got to stop ... I believe it may initially have been employed to put other people off. "

"It’s the same thing with time violations. Umpires must crack down on players such as Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal, who bounce the ball so many times before serving. A time clock should be placed on every court to ensure the allowed period between points is not exceeded. Hardly anyone takes notice these days when the umpire calls time."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article6446197.ece

I agree with everythink, specially shrieking in WTA and serve time violation in ATP.

 

[GraniteHoosier]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVfCcBzMeA0

Sharapova even screamed when she hit a drop shot... LOL

 

[Drago]

The tennis is a game for gentlemens, and as it is expected for me, the biggest cheaters are woman and they are cheating with screaming.
Although the Sharapova's beauty, I can't even watch a set with her. The screaming distracts me from the game and I can't concentrate on the tennis.
I don't think that Nadal grunt intentionally and his screaming doesn't distract me from the game, but the time violations he made is very boring to me, and I consider this as cheating. To be honest Roger Federer is a great gentlemen on court.

"Genius is nothing but continued attention."
Claude Adrien Helvetius

So lets allows genius to work without distract them. This is a funny distraction from Tsonga, but I consider this as cheating and don't think it is real tennis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSZvItWSRt4

 

[ChanceEncounter]

BS, you CANNOT compare tennis to sports like football soccer and baseball, do you even play tennis, do you have an idea of the concentration required when playing tennis?

you wouldn't even hear the ball for christ sake, it would be painfull to watch

So you don't think any of the following requires concentration?

- Catching a small ball flying hundreds of feet into the air at high velocity?
- Catching an oblong object that gets lost in the crowd/lights while someone is trying to tackle you?
- Hitting a ball, thrown at nearly a hundred miles an hour, with a stick and getting it in play?
- Trying to toss a ball into a hoop twenty feet away with someone sticking a hand in your face?
- Trying to throw a ball into the area the size of a glove from 66 feet away?
- Trying to throw a ball into the hands of a player thirty yards downfield while other players are breathing down your neck?
- Trying to kick the ball down the field precisely towards another player?

ALL sports require a lot of concentration. If you don't think so, you obviously haven't played any of the aforementioned sports at a high level. The difference is that tennis and golf are traditionally "gentleman's" games, so they have a code of etiquette that is much stricter than sports like basketball, football, baseball, futbol, hockey, et cetera.

Does NOT mean that tennis requires more concentration. That's BS. It's much harder and requires much more concentration to hit a major league pitch than it is to hit a tennis groundstroke or serve.

 

[TheTruth]

I think when commentators are obviously biased towards their friends, they shouldn't speak up on any issue regarding their friend's rivals. It looks petty and juvenile.

 

[Deleted member 21996]

I don't know enough about Martina Navratilova to comment about it. I don't even know what an oversized frame is to be honest. I just watch tennis matches. The only thing I think about it is that everybody has access to the same equipment, so nobody should have an unfair advantage over someone else.

an onversize frame is a racquet with a head with more than 105 SQ in...

like the 107 head and 109 prince used by Agassi and Chang..

 

[T. H. Park]

Nobody here has said that a penalty should be administered *every* time the time limit is exceeded. Obviously the chair umpires would have discretion. Why is it that everytime people advocate the reasonable enforcement of anti-shrieking and anti-stalling rules that the response is inevitably a caricature of the original proposal?

That's a sensible post. If someone is jumping out of the stands and trying to do something stupid like that guy at FO finals, of course there will be delays. Imagine this scenario:

1.There is an NBA basketball game going on
2.The shot-clock is running and approaching 0
3.Someone jumps from the stands, runs around, puts a hat on Kobe, and play/shot clock is not stopped
4.Shot clock = 0

Of course one would reset the clock after gaining composure and order in this case - the disruption was NOT caused by the players but rather from an OUTSIDE source. That should be the rule. Quite simple really. Not perfect but probably better than what we have here as Navratilova is saying.

However, I do not agree at all about the racquet head size. That was kind of weird, but do see her point. Where does it end is her question I think. It's like the infamous banana strings that were banned - they produced so much top spin that it was an "unfair" advantage. Would be interesting if everyone would use them - everyone would have crazy spins like Nadal (Nadal would have even more spin though!)

 

[zagor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVfCcBzMeA0

This is just terrible,I played the video from youtube and my dog started growling and barking at it and he normally doesn't react to anything from computer or TV.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Martina knows more about tennis then everyone here. I agree with her definitley about the screaming part. It has ruined women's tennis for me.

So did Seles' screaming disturb you?

 

[T. H. Park]

Because of the history of the OP that does think that every time the time is assessed it should be a point penalty after the initial warning. He doesn't believe that the chair umpire has discretion in the matter. (See the thread titled, "time violations" shockingly started by the same OP.

With all due respect, I think you are taking this way to personally and seemingly making a bit too many extreme examples to bring out your point. It is understandable as this concerns your job so I do understand.

In any case, if you add "discretion" to the mix then you are asking for grey areas. Get a shot-clock (was not my suggestion) as one of the greats of tennis saying (not me) and see what happens. How do you know it won't work when you have not used it? It's like saying people cannot fly. Yet they do. A lot of people have died trying yes, but you do not know unless you try. Just imagine having said in the 1960s that there should be a Hawkeye system installed. People would have laughed at you. There are still people who do not like it like Federer. I don't agree that he's got the right perspective there. Sure, it is not 100% correct, but linesmen/women are by far 100% correct, and it is a positive step to USE (as in exploit proper) technology to make the game more fair, if possible. I believe that having proper issuing of time violations will make it more fair.

The shot clocks are not expensive (it's just a timer with LEDs). My point is - if there is an external disturbance, like the crazy dude running into the court, someone shouting "double-fault" when one is about to serve/receive etc. then there should be a rule to address those issues. However, if it is due to the players on court for whatever reason, and it is outside the confines of what the Rule Book dictates, then the shot-clock should keep on ticking (or the referees stop watch). Probably not THE ideal solution, and I don't know if there ever can be an ideal one. But many, and the majority of the posters here seem to agree (including you) that there is a problem right now as far time violations go and shrieking goes. This is backed by Navratilova who does know a thing or two about tennis as you do.

 

[CountryHillbilly]

Abolish lets on serve? When were they introduced? It seems like a logical rule to me..

 

[T. H. Park]

I think when it is blatantly obvious that a player is stalling after he has been given a warning he should be given a point penalty. Aka like Nadal.

That's my point. To be more specific like in the Nadal vs. Roddick tiebreak this year. It happens more often than not. It's a shame but it does happen and Nadal is really not to blame. Umpires allow it, so why should be stop doing it, if it, in the end, wins him the game (albeit it won't be that crucial a dimension of him winning a game obviously!).