I would be hilarious if Novak ends up with 12 Australian opens

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
It's amazing how you lay all the necessary grounds to establish the weakness of Djokovic's win without recognising it :)

I don't think it was a weak win at all. He beat 2 top 5 players as well as Struff, Schwartzman and Raonic. I think it was an impressive win overall, and shows how amazing he is in Australia that he has never been defeated at that stage even when he isn't at his best.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Why don't you worry about age? It is quite surprising. Don't you see a correlation between aging and decreasing level? Do you think 38 years old Djokovic (if still active) could play as well at the AO as he did in the AO 2019?

P. S.: sorry I din't read all your message. Fair enough, we can debate it in the future.

Because what's the point? Are you worrying about age as Nadal goes into RG at nearly 34 a massive favorite? If so, why?
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think it was a weak win at all. He beat 2 top 5 players as well as Struff, Schwartzman and Raonic. I think it was an impressive win overall, and shows how amazing he is in Australia that he has never been defeated at that stage even when he isn't at his best.

Weak by level and opponent. Basically Djokovic was subpar for two sets but as soon as he found some average game Thiem couldn't handle it. Not a strong final by any rhyme and reason.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Because what's the point? Are you worrying about age as Nadal goes into RG at nearly 34 a massive favorite? If so, why?
Good question. I have similar thoughts with Nadal. I am almost sure that Thiem will eventually defeat Nadal in a RG final. The only way I see Nadal not losing to Thiem in a RG final is if he retires early in the following 1-2 years.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
And considering he needed 5 sets to defeat a 6 years younger Thiem in the AO final. Each year it will become more difficult to defend his AO title against Thiem, as he will only get older and older. I have no doubt that Thiem will defeat Novak in an AO final. It is only a matter of time.

Why does it have to be Thiem in the final - you're rather obsessed with Thiem.

Fact is, Novak Djokovic is more likely with each passing year to lose to others at the AO, and in rounds earlier than the final as well.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Weak by level and opponent. Basically Djokovic was subpar for two sets but as soon as he found some average game Thiem couldn't handle it. Not a strong final by any rhyme and reason.

Whatever floats your boat I guess but no one rational is going to sit here with a straight face and say Thiem was a weak opponent in Australia. He just wasn't good enough to beat Djokovic, who is the best AO player of all time.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Good question. I have similar thoughts with Nadal. I am almost sure that Thiem will eventually defeat Nadal in a RG final. The only way I see Nadal not losing to Thiem in a RG final is if he retires early in the following 1-2 years.

Again with the love for Thiem.

The guy is almost 27 and hasn't won a slam, if he wins one it's because others decline, not because he's that great.

The Clown Prince of clay.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Whatever floats your boat I guess but no one rational is going to sit here with a straight face and say Thiem was a weak opponent in Australia. He just wasn't good enough to beat Djokovic, who is the best AO player of all time.

Basic tennis dummies who see the name, don't quite see the game. You can do better but don't want to because it suits your fan instincts.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Again with the love for Thiem.

The guy is almost 27 and hasn't won a slam, if he wins one it's because others decline, not because he's that great.

The Clown Prince of clay.
I totally agree with you that if/when he wins RG or the AO it will be because of Nadal's and Djokovic's decline.

Why does it have to be Thiem in the final - you're rather obsessed with Thiem.

Fact is, Novak Djokovic is more likely with each passing year to lose to others at the AO, and in rounds earlier than the final as well.
Because I am convinced that only Thiem (and maybe Medvedev) can defeat Novak in an AO final. I also don't believe that Novak will magically start losing before the finals, I consider that he will indeed lose some AO finals before retiring. It is only my opinion, I can be wrong of course.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Good question. I have similar thoughts with Nadal. I am almost sure that Thiem will eventually defeat Nadal in a RG final. The only way I see Nadal not losing to Thiem in a RG final is if he retires early in the following 1-2 years.

I don't see him beating Nadal in a BO5 on clay unless he is injured. I think a fit Nadal is too strong for him on Chatrier.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Basic tennis dummies who see the name, don't quite see the game. You can do better but don't want to because it suits your fan instincts.

Fan instincts? So is Djokovic the best AO player of all time, yes or no? Why is Thiem a weak opponent for failing to do what Nadal, Murray and Federer haven't done since 2007? Thiem beat 3 top 10 players in Melbourne and pushed Djokovic to 5. No way was he a weak opponent.
 

swordtennis

G.O.A.T.
Whatever floats your boat I guess but no one rational is going to sit here with a straight face and say Thiem was a weak opponent in Australia. He just wasn't good enough to beat Djokovic, who is the best AO player of all time.
What concerns me about these proffesional critics (basically everyone is now since the smart phone addiction) is that they are bashing a player that might be one of the hardest workers in the sport and ever.
Was watching his practice sessions during FO 2019. Heavy hitter. His style does not float the boat of many of the "elites". That hurts him. For one thing a peon like me is not going to bash thiem who could go on and win a few majors.
 

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think it was a weak win at all. He beat 2 top 5 players as well as Struff, Schwartzman and Raonic. I think it was an impressive win overall, and shows how amazing he is in Australia that he has never been defeated at that stage even when he isn't at his best.
It beats the 2018 AO garbage by a landslide at the very least. Boy that one was swept under the rug quickly. :whistle:
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Fan instincts? So is Djokovic the best AO player of all time, yes or no? Why is Thiem a weak opponent for failing to do what Nadal, Murray and Federer haven't done since 2007? Thiem beat 3 top 10 players in Melbourne and pushed Djokovic to 5. No way was he a weak opponent.

Djokovic credentials are irrelevant for this topic. He didn't play like it at all in the final. That's all that matters.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
What concerns me about these proffesional critics (basically everyone is now since the smart phone addiction) is that they are bashing a player that might be one of the hardest workers in the sport and ever.
Was watching his practice sessions during FO 2019. Heavy hitter. His style does not float the boat of many of the "elites". That hurts him. For one thing a peon like me is not going to bash thiem who could go on and win a few majors.

He's an excellent player, one of my favorites, actually and if he had beaten Djokovic he would be praised like Stan. Since he lost, he is back to a weak opponent for some posters. It's the way it is around here. I was looking at a recent practice session posted on twitter and it was crazy, running up hills, jumping while holding a racket. Lol. The guy works super hard.
 
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AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
It beats the 2018 AO garbage by a landslide at the very least. Boy that one was swept under the rug quickly. :whistle:

It would be entirely hypocritical to acknowledge one but not the other, lol. Never said 2018 AO was strong, Federer shouldn't have gone five sets against that Cilic. He played a better final than Djokovic in 2020, but Cilic probably played worse than Thiem overall.
 

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
It would be entirely hypocritical to acknowledge one but not the other, lol. Never said 2018 AO was strong, Federer shouldn't have gone five sets against that Cilic. He played a better final than Djokovic in 2020, but Cilic probably played worse than Thiem overall.
It would be. If they were comparably weak. Which they were not.
 

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
Because I am convinced that only Thiem (and maybe Medvedev) can defeat Novak in an AO final. I also don't believe that Novak will magically start losing before the finals, I consider that he will indeed lose some AO finals before retiring. It is only my opinion, I can be wrong of course.

Great post as usual. I agree except I think Medvedev is more likely to defeat Novak in AO than Thiem is.

It's hard to overestimate the mental impact of these tough losses in a major. The fact that Thiem was 2 sets to up against a less than 100% (B game) Novak, and still couldn't close the deal, will continue to haunt the Austrian. Will he ever face a worse Djokovic in a slam final? One can reasonably assume that Thiem will lack belief against Novak EVEN MORE while closing out future matches. Plus Djokovic will gain confidence for next time the Serb faces Thiem in a major - the big 3 have killer instinct in spades. You show them a weakness and they pounce on it.

Most of the future world #1 and great champions don't fail to close the deal. Nadal did, Federer did and so did Novak. The fact that Thiem is 0-3 in grand slam finals does NOT augur well for his future. You cannot keep missing opportunities until it messes you completely. Thiem clearly CANNOT beat Novak/Nadal until both decline. Once they do, there will be younger and hungrier players who will foil Thiem again.

You got to make hay while the sun shines. For Thiem unfortunately, the sun won't be shining much longer. He had the best chance of his career, and blew it. The putative prince will NEVER be a King IMO.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
They are. Gasquet, Berdych, Cilic produced resistance of similar calibre to Schwartzman, Raonic, Thiem. Federer was obviously better than Chung but still Stumperer with depressingly sad lateral movement, entirely insignificant on the tournament-long scale.

Lmao. Yet my fan instincts are clouding my judgement? Dude stop.
 
Gotta love it when Djokovic wins a slam.

giphy.gif
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Fan instincts? So is Djokovic the best AO player of all time, yes or no? Why is Thiem a weak opponent for failing to do what Nadal, Murray and Federer haven't done since 2007? Thiem beat 3 top 10 players in Melbourne and pushed Djokovic to 5. No way was he a weak opponent.
Thiem wasn't a weak opponent (he was at least the strongest opponent Djokovic faced in AO final since 2012), but it's pretty strange to see this comment coming from you. When Thiem beat Djokovic in RG and WTF last year I don't remember you saying he is a strong opponent. You just complained about how terrible Djokovic was in these matches and how he would have never lost if he wasn't so passive and bad. But when Thiem actually lost to Djokovic he is suddenly a strong opponent. :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Great post as usual. I agree except I think Medvedev is more likely to defeat Novak in AO than Thiem is.

It's hard to overestimate the mental impact of these tough losses in a major. The fact that Thiem was 2 sets to up against a less than 100% (B game) Novak, and still couldn't close the deal, will continue to haunt the Austrian.
One can reasonably assume that Thiem will lack belief against Novak EVEN MORE while closing out matches. Plus Djokovic will gain confidence for next time the Serb faces Thiem in a major.

Most of the future world #1 and great champions don't fail to close the deal. Nadal did, Federer did and so did Novak. The fact that Thiem is 0-3 in grand slam finals does NOT augur well for his future. He clearly CANNOT beat Novak/Nadal until both decline. Once they do, there will be younger and hungrier players who will foil Theim.

You got to make hay while the sun shines. For Thiem unfortunately, the sun won't be shining much longer. He had the best chance of his career, and blew it...
Fantastic feeback. Are you a native English speaker? If not, your English vocabulary is certainly vast, you redact very well. Maybe you acquired that extense vocabulary because you like to read books as you commented in other threads?

If you are right in your predictions, Thiem may end up with a joke of a resume with something like 1-7 in Slam finals or similar.
 

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
They are. Gasquet, Berdych, Cilic produced resistance of similar calibre to Schwartzman, Raonic, Thiem. Federer was obviously better than Chung but still Stumperer with depressingly sad lateral movement, entirely insignificant on the tournament-long scale.
giphy.gif


Looking back a little more, Fucsovics probably played like a man possessed while also Struff was better in 2018 than in 2020. :unsure:
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
If I focused on the names, you might have a case. Focus on the games? Lol wut. Comparing Federer to Chung? Chung was god awful and couldnt even finish the match.

Don't twist my words.
Federer was basically Berdych, actually similar matches in terms of progression. Obviously better than a no-show, but not tough enough to make a real difference.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Thiem wasn't a weak opponent (he was at least the strongest opponent Djokovic faced in AO final since 2012), but it's pretty strange to see this comment coming from you. When Thiem beat Djokovic in RG and WTF last year I don't remember you saying he is a strong opponent. You just complained about how terrible Djokovic was in these matches and how he would have never lost if he wasn't so passive and bad. But when Thiem actually lost to Djokovic he is suddenly a strong opponent. :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

This is reinvention. I never once said Thiem was not a strong opponent in either of those matches, and why wouldn't he be a strong opponent on his best surface in a Slam SF? Yes Djokovic was passive in that loss at WTF and yes I said so. He was far more aggressive in that AO match and hit more winners off the ground than Thiem did.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Notice how often even Federer and Nadal these days play like Berdychs, Roddicks and other bunnies of this world when Djokovic shows them the way out in Majors. For all the criticism about name over form look at things, this eye test thing is also smelling moar and moar fishy with each passing day.
You say it because of Djokovic's victories over Federer at the AO 2020 and Nadal at the AO 2019? It is obvious that they played bad for their standards, but still Djokovkic would have won even if they had played better. No one is saying that Djokvovic would have lost against a better version of Fedal at the AO 2019 or AO 2020, only that the matches would have been a bit more disputed.

With regard to WB 2018 and WB 2019, the general consensus is that Fedal played good, so I don't know what are you talking about. People are not dismissing Fedal's level all the time they lose to Djokovic.

Your fanbase (Djokovic fans) also employ arguments of Djokovic playing bad when he loses (ATP finals 2019) or has a close match (AO 2020 final). All fanbases do that.
 
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TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
Fantastic feeback. Are you a native English speaker? If not, your English vocabulary is certainly vast, you redact very well. Maybe you acquired that extense vocabulary because you like to read books as you commented in other threads?

If you are right in your predictions, Thiem may end up with a joke of a resume with something like 1-7 in Slam finals or similar.

Thanks for the feedback. You are very generous. I'm sure I don't deserve all of your praise. And yes, I do love reading.

That being said, I don't think Thiem would end up with a joke of a resume. He is still a very good player. He might even win a slam (or 2).
But to me, he lacks the belief and the mental strength to be a great champion. The killer instinct - that Nadal/Djokovic/Fed and even Stan have in spades.
Let's see how it pans out, but my money would still be on Medvedev having a greater career than Thiem eventually. Thiem is a nice guy off court too, so let's hope for the best for the Austrain.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Notice how often even Federer and Nadal these days play like Berdychs, Roddicks and other bunnies of this world when Djokovic shows them the way out in Majors. For all the criticism about name over form look at things, this eye test thing is also smelling moar and moar fishy with each passing day.

Tell.you what, Djokovic's level in 2012-14 Wimbledon was basically varying stages of Roddick lol (not to mentioned 2019 which was below par). It's less of slamming Djokovic and more acknowledging Roddick's short but strong prime on grass.
 
D

Deleted member 744633

Guest
As our dear friend @Sunny Ali would say:
LMAO x 1000000000000000000!

No kiddin man ... some of the things people say around here. Federer (or his tennis) is beautiful while Nadal/Djokovic are ugly. Federer plays like Sampras while Nadal/Djokovic are baseline bashers. And they're serious about it!

This is a seriously funny forum! :-D
 

swordtennis

G.O.A.T.
No kiddin man ... some of the things people say around here. Federer (or his tennis) is beautiful while Nadal/Djokovic are ugly. Federer plays like Sampras while Nadal/Djokovic are baseline bashers. And they're serious about it!

This is a seriously funny forum! :-D
LOL. It is endearing. They are like human windmills throwing so many blows from all directions you are basically just trying to survive. No time to think or respond!
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Good question. I have similar thoughts with Nadal. I am almost sure that Thiem will eventually defeat Nadal in a RG final. The only way I see Nadal not losing to Thiem in a RG final is if he retires early in the following 1-2 years.

I'm sure Nadal will play until RG 2022 when he turns 36 and will be, realistically speaking, his last chance to win a big tournament.
Afterwards, he will no longer be able to perform at a great level and the best thing for him will be to retire with dignity.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
I'm sure Nadal will play until RG 2022 when he turns 36 and will be, realistically speaking, his last chance to win a big tournament.
Afterwards, he will no longer be able to perform at a great level and the best thing for him will be to retire with dignity.
Nadal has claimed in several interviews he wants to play the Olympics 2024, which are played on clay in the Phillipe-Chatrier of Paris. It is too early to know Nadal's level in 2022, but to assure that he will be done or that should retire in 2022 is too premature yet. We will see how he is playing when he gets there.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal has claimed in several interviews he wants to play the Olympics 2024, which are played on clay in the Phillipe-Chatrier of Paris. It is too early to know Nadal's level in 2022, but to assure that he will be done or that should retire in 2022 is too premature yet. We will see how he is playing when he gets there.

Every player has an expiry date and I don't think Nadal can fulfill his dream of playing in Paris 2024, which would be a real shame.
:cry:
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Every player has an expiry date and I don't think Nadal can fulfill his dream of playing in Paris 2024, which would be a real shame.
:cry:
I will tell you after RG 2022 how I see his level. One thing is playing the 2024 Olympics and another thing is having chances to win it.
 
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