If Daniil Medvedev was born a decade earlier, would he realistically achieve more than Tsonga or Berdych in the Big Four era ?

[Phenomenal]

Maddie is a quick learner. He has started to address his return position. He may stay just below Novak sinner Alcaraz for quite a few years.

Easier so stay in the top 5 when you don't compete with the Big 4 in their best years. If Medvedev was truly generational he would have figured out all surfaces by now

How?? Djokovic exposing Medvedev's return position for quite some time. Idk since when. All players do actually since 2022.
Still Medvedev not only not prepared this for USO 2023 he was too stubborn to change in the final aswell. After 2 year yeah maybe he changed now.

 

[TsitsiBH]

Fed has been taken to five in AO by tisparevic.

No proper preparation for AO 2008 due to mononucleosis

 

[nolefam_2024]

Thus far, anyone facing Zverev in a Slam semifinal has failed to secure the title (except when Zverev retired).

Plus Murray is not big 3 material. Many have beaten him in slams even in his best years. In 2016 nishikori got him in USO in 2013 was it Stan ?

Andy peak is too short and too soft. Because people ignore his 2014/2015 anyway because he didn't win slams then. And 2011 when big 3 were at the top. What we are left with are just 2/3 years. That's not good for trotting him as some sure shot winner vs meddy.

 

[TsitsiBH]

Plus Murray is not big 3 material. Many have beaten him in slams even in his best years. In 2016 nishikori got him in USO in 2013 was it Stan ?

Andy peak is too short and too soft. Because people ignore his 2014/2015 anyway because he didn't win slams then. And 2011 when big 3 were at the top. What we are left with are just 2/3 years. That's not good for trotting him as some sure shot winner vs meddy.

Murray would have won nearly 20 Slams without the Big 3 : Wim 2008, USO 2008, AO 2010, AO 2011, RG 2011, USO 2011, AO 2012, Wim 2012, USO 2012, AO 2013, Wim 2013, AO 2015, Wim 2015, AO 2016, RG 2016 and Wim 2016. And I didn't even mention Wim 2010, Wim 2011, RG 2014 or USO 2014 which are debatable with Berdych Tsonga Ferrer and Cilic respectively.

His peak was great but what can you do when you face the 2 GOAT hardcourters in all of your AO + USO finals.?

 

[fedfan24]

19-24 Medvedev in 07-12?

07: 0 slams or finals
08: 0 slams or finals
09: 0 slams or finals
10: slim chance of AO final
11: 0 slams or finals
12: probably 0 slams or finals

At best he becomes a Davydenko level player with 1-2 masters wins at somewhere like Paris in 08-10 in absence of big 3/4. 0 chance of Rome, Miami, Canada, Cincy, Shanghai/Madrid in this era.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Murray would have won nearly 20 Slams without the Big 3 : Wim 2008, USO 2008, AO 2010, AO 2011, RG 2011, USO 2011, AO 2012, Wim 2012, USO 2012, AO 2013, Wim 2013, AO 2015, Wim 2015, AO 2016, RG 2016 and Wim 2016. And I didn't even mention Wim 2010, Wim 2011, RG 2014 or USO 2014 which are debatable with Berdych Tsonga Ferrer and Cilic respectively.

Taking out big 3 is a SLAP in the face of logic. Taking down 3 atg and then claiming something has zero values.

Lendl would win 25 slams without Becker Edberg wilander McEnroe Connors

Same effect


A slap in the face of logic

 

[ND-13]

Medvedev, Berretini , Shapavalov, Zverev, Thiem are in the same ball park as yester year Ferrer

 

[fedfan24]

Murray would have won nearly 20 Slams without the Big 3 : Wim 2008, USO 2008, AO 2010, AO 2011, RG 2011, USO 2011, AO 2012, Wim 2012, USO 2012, AO 2013, Wim 2013, AO 2015, Wim 2015, AO 2016, RG 2016 and Wim 2016. And I didn't even mention Wim 2010, Wim 2011, RG 2014 or USO 2014 which are debatable with Berdych Tsonga Ferrer and Cilic respectively.

His peak was great but what can you do when you face the 2 GOAT hardcourters in all of your AO + USO finals.?

AO 10/13/15
W 11
USO 11/12

Are all debatable. Murray had a few losses to other players than big 3 at the USO/W over the years and Stan would have something to say about AO 13/15.

 

[The Blond Blur]

The Sad Lad still gets his teeth kicked in by old and super declined versions of the Big 3. So if he was born a decade earlier it’d be even worse for him.

 

[a10best]

I agree with the OP's initial post on this thread. Medvedev would be relegated to a 2nd tier player much like Dimitrov and Verdasco and below Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro, and Soderling.

Med started out as big server with quick aces and now kind of just gets it in just as he does with his returns. Look at how strong that top 10 was with Tsonga and Berdie. People always forget the depth of the second tier after the peak Big 4 then compared to the past few years' incredibly weak roster.

 

[TsitsiBH]

AO 10/13/15
W 11
USO 11/12

Are all debatable. Murray had a few losses to other players than big 3 at the USO/W over the years and Stan would have something to say about AO 13/15.

Sorry you are right about AO 2013 and AO 2015 there is a chance for Stan especially 2015.

I did say Wimbledon 2011 was debatable the way Tsonga was playing.

USO 2012 is not debatable since Murray won it in the real world anyways but who do you think would have beaten him in USO 2011 outside of the Big 4 ? Nobody was playing well enough I think. Maybe Tsonga but that's doubtful.

 

[TsitsiBH]

19-24 Medvedev in 07-12?

07: 0 slams or finals
08: 0 slams or finals
09: 0 slams or finals
10: slim chance of AO final
11: 0 slams or finals
12: probably 0 slams or finals

At best he becomes a Davydenko level player with 1-2 masters wins at somewhere like Paris in 08-10 in absence of big 3/4. 0 chance of Rome, Miami, Canada, Cincy, Shanghai/Madrid in this era.

Good summary that should stop nolefam2024's irrational spamming

 

[TsitsiBH]

Taking out big 3 is a SLAP in the face of logic. Taking down 3 atg and then claiming something has zero values.

Lendl would win 25 slams without Becker Edberg wilander McEnroe Connors

Same effect


A slap in the face of logic

Lendl yes because he's a legend. Medvedev no.

Daniil is not anywhere near Murray

 

[ND-13]

I seriously think Medvedev may not have even made it to top 10

 

[nolefam_2024]

Lendl yes because he's a legend. Medvedev no.

Daniil is not anywhere near Murray

Even if he is half of what Murray was he would be twice as good as erdych and much better than tsonga as well

Do you see your argument was stupid or not? Removing big 3 means removing all major competition then you claim andy wins 20. What other imaginations do you have.

 

[TsitsiBH]

I seriously think Medvedev may not have even made it to top 10

I think he would have done it since Almagro Gasquet Monaco Fish Tipsarevic Simon and Monfils made it. But ever reaching top 5 is unlikely

 

[TsitsiBH]

Even if he is half of what Murray was he would be twice as good as erdych and much better than tsonga as well

Do you see your argument was stupid or not? Removing big 3 means removing all major competition then you claim andy wins 20. What other imaginations do you have.

It shows how much better Murray was compared to the other players of his gen. And more importantly it shows his crazy consistency for a decade

 

[nolefam_2024]

I think he would have done it since Almagro Gasquet Monaco Fish Tipsarevic Simon and Monfils made it. But ever reaching top 5 is unlikely

No why give him top 10. You are too soft.

He wouldn't even make top 100 because he is in this era number 1. And obviously as per fedal fans this era number 1s can't compete with icons of the sport like Monaco

 

[fedfan24]

Sorry you are right about AO 2013 and AO 2015 there is a chance for Stan, especially 2015.

I did say Wimbledon 2011 was debatable the way Tsonga was playing.

USO 2012 is not debatable since Murray won it in the real world anyways, but who do you think would have beaten him in USO 2011 outside of the Big 4 ? Nobody was playing well enough I think. Maybe Tsonga but that's doubtful.

Good point forgot about 2012 USO. Maybe del Porto or ferrer could do something but unlikely.

Realistically he definitely wins (assuming everything else stays the same)

10/11/12/16 AO
16 RG
08/12/13/15/16 W
11/12 USO

12 slams

13/15 AO
10/11 W
08 USO

I would give him a strong chance so 17+ slams. Think 20 would be too far. He’s prone to some bad defeats.

 

[tennisfan17]

Eh. I disagree. I think Meddy could of been really good even back in the time of berdych and tsonga. I think the idea of strong vs weak eras is kind of redundant. Is he a generational talent? No. But he is damn good and has a game that is tricky to deal with. Sure the Big 3 dominated back then, but they still lost every once in a while. Medvedev maybe could of pulled a del potro run and won a slam.

 

[nolefam_2024]

It shows how much better Murray was compared to the other players of his gen. And more importantly it shows his crazy consistency for a decade

Consistency hmm

Medvedev 17 titles including 1 slam 6 masters and 1 ATP finals

Making 37 finals

5 full years left at the top.

Why is he not consistent

 

[TsitsiBH]

Eh. I disagree. I think Meddy could of been really good even back in the time of berdych and tsonga. I think the idea of strong vs weak eras is kind of redundant. Is he a generational talent? No. But he is damn good and has a game that is tricky to deal with. Sure the Big 3 dominated back then, but they still lost every once in a while. Medvedev maybe could of pulled a del potro run and won a slam.

I don't see any Slam that Med could win except maybe USO 2014. But he'd have needed the perfect timing.

USO 2009 is a clear no as Federer was at a high level

 

[TsitsiBH]

Consistency hmm

Medvedev 17 titles including 1 slam 6 masters and 1 ATP finals

Making 37 finals

5 full years left at the top.

Why is he not consistent

Because he's bad on clay and grass

 

[nolefam_2024]

Because he's bad on clay and grass

He is Wimbledon semifinalist and has won a title on grass.

Won Rome and made quarterfinals there already. How is he bad?

 

[TsitsiBH]

Good point forgot about 2012 USO. Maybe del Porto or ferrer could do something but unlikely.

Realistically he definitely wins (assuming everything else stays the same)

10/11/12/16 AO
16 RG
08/12/13/15/16 W
11/12 USO

12 slams

13/15 AO
10/11 W
08 USO

I would give him a strong chance so 17+ slams. Think 20 would be too far. He’s prone to some bad defeats.

Good summary. I think he has a solid chance at RG 2011 as well he played well the whole clay season in 2011. So 18 at best I guess.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Murray won 0 clay titles until 2015 I think. He was 28. Meddy is just now 27.

Tsonga and Erdych have 1 masters each not on clay and obviously not on grass.

Hc is what matters.

 

[TsitsiBH]

He is Wimbledon semifinalist and has won a title on grass.

Won Rome and made quarterfinals there already. How is he bad?

He made the Wimbledon semis last year because of a challenger draw (Eubanks in QF lol) and then got dismantled by Alcaraz.

Rome was probably a fluke because overall Med's win loss ratio on clay is tragic I don't even think he's close to 60%

 

[TsitsiBH]

Murray won 0 clay titles until 2015 I think. He was 28. Meddy is just now 27.

Tsonga and Erdych have 1 masters each not on clay and obviously not on grass.

Hc is what matters.

Tsonga won 2 Masters titles fyi and in 1 of them he defeated Djokovic Murray and Federer

 

[tennisfan17]

Tsonga won 2 Masters titles fyi and in 1 of them he defeated Djokovic Murray and Federer

God what an amazing tournament for Tsonga that was

 

[mike danny]

Eh. I disagree. I think Meddy could of been really good even back in the time of berdych and tsonga. I think the idea of strong vs weak eras is kind of redundant. Is he a generational talent? No. But he is damn good and has a game that is tricky to deal with. Sure the Big 3 dominated back then, but they still lost every once in a while. Medvedev maybe could of pulled a del potro run and won a slam.

Kind of hard to see that happening since he'd have to beat both Nadal and Fed.

 

[NeutralFan]

If would should would.

 

[mike danny]

It is a pertinent question to ask. Just because Zverev, Tsits and Med are the best of their generation in this era, it doesn't mean it would hold true a decade+ ago as well. They probably wouldn't even have masters and WTF titles in this scenario since they weren't as open as they've been the last few years.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Tsonga won 2 Masters titles fyi and in 1 of them he defeated Djokovic Murray and Federer

Tsonga has better claim than erdych but then are you forgetting ATP finals 2020? What tsonga can do meddy will do better

 

[tennisfan17]

Kind of hard to see that happening since he'd have to beat both Nadal and Fed.

I could see it though. It's not impossible but I do think that he could do it if things swing a correct way. But just my two cents. I really like Meddy so I am sure I have a certain level of bias.

 

[TsitsiBH]

Tsonga has better claim than erdych but then are you forgetting ATP finals 2020? What tsonga can do meddy will do better

Where is Medvedev's AO win over Djokovic then

Where is Medvedev's Slam win over Nadal then

Where is Medvedev's win over Federer at any event then

Where is Medvedev's >25% win rate against Big 3 then

Where are Medvedev's Slam semis on all 3 surfaces then

 

[ND-13]

Murray won 0 clay titles until 2015 I think. He was 28. Meddy is just now 27.

Tsonga and Erdych have 1 masters each not on clay and obviously not on grass.

Hc is what matters.

I think some things are going over your head I am afraid. Nobody is telling Medvedev is not having big titles. People are questioning if he is really worthy of those titles given he doesn’t seem the kind of player to win in a tough era.

 

[Third Serve]

Med has had trouble coping with even declined versions of the Big 3. Djokovic not being able to return or move as well as in his prime has done Med a lot of favors, but even so, Med still hasn't completely consolidated this advantage. He has one Slam win over Djokovic. One.

And obviously his record against Nadal is a meme.

The Fed matches were obviously before he hit his stride in 2019 (though Fed was surely even further from his own prime), but based on what we know of both players and their relative strengths and weaknesses, Med would seriously struggle against Fed who mixes up play far more than Djokovic or Nadal and can really mess him up with the slice (even old Dimitrov has been able to do this on occasion lol).

The H2H would probably look a lot like Berdych's combined H2H against the Big 3 since 2014. In other words, mostly hopeless.

He'd definitely outperform those guys at the Masters though. There, Med is actually somewhat competent and consistent, whereas those guys were more streaky.

I think Med is definitely better than Ferrer in general, but at the Slams, Tsonga and Berdych (at least before 2014 when he became a punching bag for any halfway decent player) pretty much outclass him in most departments.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

I saw a mind boggling stat this morning. Tsonga won 29% of his matches against Federer Nadal and Djokovic (16 wins in 55 matches). Medvedev won 25% of his matches against Federer Nadal and Djokovic (6 wins in 24 matches). I would have expected Medvedev to have better stats because when he faced the Big 3 they were not at their peak anymore. Medvedev is 1-5 against Nadal on hardcourt and 0-3 against Federer on hardcourt even if he's seen as the ultimate HC specialist.

Obviously most people would rank Medvedev's career ahead of players like Tsonga Berdych Soderling and Ferrer who couldn't win Grand Slams because of peaking in the same era as Federer Nadal Djokovic and Murray.

Daniil became world #1 (in a special year with Djokovic being prevented from playing many events but still) and won a Slam title as well as 6 Mastdrs trophies but I wonder how much weight do you put it to the era's timing ? According to betting odds Medvedev was the clear favourite against Nadal in the Australian Open final in 2022 but he couldn't finish a 35 year old Rafa off.

Another issue is that Berdych and Tsonga were competitive at all Grand Slams on all surfaces. I'm yet to see a memorable match from Medvedev at Roland-Garros or Wimbledon.

All of this leads me to think that Medvedev would just be another very good 2nd tier player like Tsonga Berdych Ferrer over a decade ago. He would be consistently blocked by Federer Nadal Djokovic and Murray on hardcourt and he would obviously struggle even more than now on clay or grass. Do you agree with me ?

Won't win any slam for sure
Not as many Masters either

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Fun to see the polarising opinions on this one. I guess he does about as well, 1-2 masters, maybe 1 slam final along the way with some luck, obviously no slams or YEC in a zillion years.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Where is Medvedev's AO win over Djokovic then

Where is Medvedev's Slam win over Nadal then

Where is Medvedev's win over Federer at any event then

Where is Medvedev's >25% win rate against Big 3 then

Where are Medvedev's Slam semis on all 3 surfaces then

Tsonga Federer age gap - 4 years

Federer Medvedev - 15 years

Another slap in the face of logic. Big slaps

 

[nolefam_2024]

I think some things are going over your head I am afraid. Nobody is telling Medvedev is not having big titles. People are questioning if he is really worthy of those titles given he doesn’t seem the kind of player to win in a tough era.

Change your username then talk brother. Don't muddy up Nole's name

 

[nolefam_2024]

Big slaps in the face of logic

 

[nolefam_2024]

Alcaraz zero wins over Federer in any event. Zero wins over Nole at AO and zero wins over Nadal at slams. He is 20+ years younger than fed.

Big slaps in the face of logic

 

[CHillTennis]

No. What big 2000s win does erdych have over Federer.

Olympics 2004.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Olympics 2004.

Its a complete non event during 2004.

 

[CHillTennis]

Its a complete non event during 2004.

What?

 

[nolefam_2024]

What?

Olympics is a complete non event during 2004. Its not at slam level importance.

 

[TsitsiBH]

Tsonga Federer age gap - 4 years

Federer Medvedev - 15 years

Another slap in the face of logic. Big slaps

It took Tsonga 2 attempts to beat Federer. Medvedev is 0-3 against Roger

 

[nolefam_2024]

It took Tsonga 2 attempts to beat Federer. Medvedev is 0-3 against Roger

Right and you are so good to compare 1 to 1. And you are always this consistent in all your life !!!!

 

[nolefam_2024]

Done with this thread. The imaginations and big 3 non big 3 comparison is so much now it's all about weak era strong era threads. Bye