It's almost pointless to worry about draws these days because tough draws no longer exist

[InsideOut900]

The deal it's pretty simple, if you are a serious contender for a Slam you don't even have to look at the draw anymore.

If you want a HC Slams, you either have to beat Novak or Daniil.

If you want a clay Slam, you have to beat Nadal or possibly Tsitsipas

If you want to win Wimbledon, then... lol.

It's pointless to make a 128 players draw when there is no depth and aside from Nadal, Djokovic, Medvedev and Tsitsipas on clay no one is within a country mile of being a contender.

Just put combinations of them, throw in Zverev in the SF, just so he can lose, but at least be there, put Berrettini too while at it.

If the year was 2015, a draw consisting of Musetti-Berrettini-ancient Nadal and Tsitsipas would be considered mildly inconvenient, while today it's the absolute hardest the tour has to offer, except a draw like that only happens like 30-40% of the time, so it's not even bad, but consistent, it's bad and inconsistent.

2017 had 1/4 good Slams, same for 2018. 2019 was a bit better except AO and 2020 had a good AO, while last year had a great FO. That's like 30-40% NOT BAD tournaments, just as mentioned above.

And now I have been waiting for this AO so eagerly, just to see the draw absolutely crumble, starting even before the first match was played. Nadal has a joke draw, Med has potentially another joke draw and likely the only reason to watch 2 weeks worth of tennis is going to be one match on Sunday.

Sorry for the rant, but this is beyond embarassing. This is the absolute peak of Next Gen and both Nadal and Djokovic are still capable of producing exciting tennis, but we at most get 2-4 good Slam matches per year. It reachs the moment watching tennis is almost pointless cuz there is nothing to see.

 

[BGod]

I think tough draws stem from bad style matchups early like R32-R16 and then a solid top contender in both SF-F.

Novak's last USO draw was tough.

 

[Dominic & Andrey]

There is a good match being played right now : Monfils vs Kecmanovic, can I know why you are not watching it please ?

 

[Kralingen]

The ultimate conclusion from seeing all the mental muggery over a long period of time is that these are hardly professionals, not by the standards of stronger eras. I don’t mean in terms of talent per se, it’s more that they behave exactly like the overgrown Juniors they all are at heart.

for one, their Balance is nearly always off. They lack problem solving skills and don’t have go to point patterns on BPs. Either stroke, FH or BH, sometimes both in the same match, becomes completely inconsistent and even untrustworthy. Nervous glances downward, bizarre emotional reactions, weird errors that actively make you scratch your head. It’s like watching Bambi take his first steps onto ice when we get into Bo5. They’re unbelievably fragile and completely self aware of their fragility. I just feel like older generations got the game better than this lot. They had more passion, took it more seriously, had bigger toolkits and adaptivity.

 

[Yugram]

Draws on paper were always pointless. They can tell you probability of one of the favourites receiving tough challengers at the end, but that’s about it. In reality potentially tough draws could become walk in the park, and potentially easy draws become hell when unexpected names start peaking against you.

 

[Yugram]

Probably the only time in tennis history when draws on paper really mattered was 2008-2013, or even 2008-2012 because by 2013 Federer and Nadal became less consistent. In Golden Strong Era it really could decide whether you have to face 1 or 2 opponents playing at no less than ATG level to win the title.

 

[Yugram]

Draws on paper were always pointless. They can tell you probability of one of the favourites receiving tough challengers at the end, but that’s about it. In reality potentially tough draws could become walk in the park, and potentially easy draws become hell when unexpected names start peaking against you.

Like, who could’ve predicted Anderson of all people PEAKING and becoming Federer’s doom at Wimbledon? Certainly not Federer fans.

 

[Sport]

.

 

[RS]

The deal it's pretty simple, if you are a serious contender for a Slam you don't even have to look at the draw anymore.

If you want a HC Slams, you either have to beat Novak or Daniil.

If you want a clay Slam, you have to beat Nadal or possibly Tsitsipas

If you want to win Wimbledon, then... lol.

It's pointless to make a 128 players draw when there is no depth and aside from Nadal, Djokovic, Medvedev and Tsitsipas on clay no one is within a country mile of being a contender.

Just put combinations of them, throw in Zverev in the SF, just so he can lose, but at least be there, put Berrettini too while at it.

If the year was 2015, a draw consisting of Musetti-Berrettini-ancient Nadal and Tsitsipas would be considered mildly inconvenient, while today it's the absolute hardest the tour has to offer, except a draw like that only happens like 30-40% of the time, so it's not even bad, but consistent, it's bad and inconsistent.

2017 had 1/4 good Slams, same for 2018. 2019 was a bit better except AO and 2020 had a good AO, while last year had a great FO. That's like 30-40% NOT BAD tournaments, just as mentioned above.

And now I have been waiting for this AO so eagerly, just to see the draw absolutely crumble, starting even before the first match was played. Nadal has a joke draw, Med has potentially another joke draw and likely the only reason to watch 2 weeks worth of tennis is going to be one match on Sunday.

Sorry for the rant, but this is beyond embarassing. This is the absolute peak of Next Gen and both Nadal and Djokovic are still capable of producing exciting tennis, but we at most get 2-4 good Slam matches per year. It reachs the moment watching tennis is almost pointless cuz there is nothing to see.

We need a more in depth competition thread from you

 

[ForehandRF]

It just shows that 2007-2013 was rather an exception so we might not see something similar for a long time

 

[aman92]

Probably the only time in tennis history when draws on paper really mattered was 2008-2013, or even 2008-2012 because by 2013 Federer and Nadal became less consistent. In Golden Strong Era it really could decide whether you have to face 1 or 2 opponents playing at no less than ATG level to win the title.

Agrew.. Draws have become meaningless since 2014 since you can't expect any of the next gen to fulfil their seeding. During peak big 3 era it was critical which of the 2 ended up in the same half because that inevitably ended up being the semifinal... Djokovic at USO last year was a rare occurrence of the next gen fulfilling their potential but seems like a false dawn again now

 

[Nadal_King]

Over expectations from players like Zverev has led to this, tour still has a lot to offer. Nadal is a 20 time slam winner to beat him you need grit and determination which only few players can show, so stop making these threads after nadal winning a 4th rd

 

[fox]

Actually that’s true and Rafa and Medvedev are showing how easy it is to get through this easy draws these days. Also how easily Novak managed to upgrade his slam count since 2018 from 12 to 20.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Agrew.. Draws have become meaningless since 2014 since you can't expect any of the next gen to fulfil their seeding. During peka big 3 era it was critical which of the 2 ended up in the same half because that inevitably ended up being the semifinal... Djokovic at USO last year was a rare occurrence of the next gen fulfilling their potential but seems like a false dawn again now

Almost always not Nadal, except at RG where it didn't matter anyway.

 

[Nadal_King]

I think Shapovalov in Wimbledon sf 2021 and today vs Zverev was same but difference was due to Djokovic and Zverev. You got to give credit that tennis is not just about winning points but being mentally tough which these big guys know how to do it

 

[The Fedfather]

Yep. The quality of Slam matches has been steadily going down. And it's one thing not to have depth, but there's also no domination/tennis masterclass shown by any player. It's a blend of bad, normal, and sometimes kinda good. Ultimately not that exciting.

I will say when I watch matches purely for tennis, without any expectations for the players to go far in the tourney or pull of an upset, some of them can be pretty entertaining.

 

[InsideOut900]

My whole point for this thread is that we lacked proper competition in 2017-2018, then we got Thiem patching up 2019-2020.

We have endured a lot waiting for new players, but there is finally balance between Nadal/Djokovic and Next Gen, while in 2018-2019 they were pretty much unbeatable. Yet we are not getting the expected match-ups and a lot of the results are still baffling to why they happen.

There is a good match being played right now : Monfils vs Kecmanovic, can I know why you are not watching it please ?

I am watching it actually
Fun match, though I am afraid it's not gonna matter much in the grand scheme.

 

[Silverbullet96]

There is a good match being played right now : Monfils vs Kecmanovic, can I know why you are not watching it please ?

My bold assumption is that maybe he doesn't want to.

 

[killerboss]

Agreed. Most of it is just from big 3 fans trying to mock his rivals. Nadal beating Djokovic to win 2 of his US Opens amazingly wasn't enough for a lot of the people on here.

Another strange thing people come out with is draws collapsing - most of the players haven't even won a single slam for a draw to collapse lmao. You can't have tough draws in a weak era.

 

[junior74]

Draws today are only tough for the spectators

 

[NatF]

Career Inflation Era strikes again.

 

[Adam Copeland]

The ultimate conclusion from seeing all the mental muggery over a long period of time is that these are hardly professionals, not by the standards of stronger eras. I don’t mean in terms of talent per se, it’s more that they behave exactly like the overgrown Juniors they all are at heart.

for one, their Balance is nearly always off. They lack problem solving skills and don’t have go to point patterns on BPs. Either stroke, FH or BH, sometimes both in the same match, becomes completely inconsistent and even untrustworthy. Nervous glances downward, bizarre emotional reactions, weird errors that actively make you scratch your head. It’s like watching Bambi take his first steps onto ice when we get into Bo5. They’re unbelievably fragile and completely self aware of their fragility. I just feel like older generations got the game better than this lot. They had more passion, took it more seriously, had bigger toolkits and adaptivity.

@Kralingen - How is my Signature?

 

[vernonbc]

Also how easily Novak managed to upgrade his slam count since 2018 from 12 to 20.

Really??? Is that stat correct? I knew Djokovic had padded his stats by way of lack of competition with the top stars all getting injured and the next two or three generations being totally incompetent, but I didn't realize it was that bad. Djoke and his fans should be embarrassed.

 

[Phenomenal]

I think the problem here is Thiem's absence last 2 years. He was competitive and a strong contender on every slam except wimbledon last 3-4 years. It helped Djokovic and Nadal also Medvedev basically to anyone. We say now Med is the best on hard courts beside Djoko but Thiem was beating Medvedev and others on Slams before 2021

Med and Zverev is very good they are getting the consistency on slams. Zverev probably still didn't show his success on Slams. Med great on HC Tsitsipas i think not on the same level on HC but better on clay.

 

[mike danny]

Agreed. Most of it is just from big 3 fans trying to mock his rivals. Nadal beating Djokovic to win 2 of his US Opens amazingly wasn't enough for a lot of the people on here.

Another strange thing people come out with is draws collapsing - most of the players haven't even won a single slam for a draw to collapse lmao. You can't have tough draws in a weak era.

Actually you can.

 

[Phenomenal]

I don't follow much to other players but i think there are a lot good players coming and improving every tournament but they either don't have the experience or mental strength on slams to overcome big players.

 

[Nuclear]

Actually that’s true and Rafa and Medvedev are showing how easy it is to get through this easy draws these days. Also how easily Novak managed to upgrade his slam count since 2018 from 12 to 20.

It's not like Rafa and Federer were drinking fresh coconut juice in the Bahamas through these years. Especially Rafa. It was his duty to seize the opportunity just as much as it was Novak's . Additionally, Djokovic has two nemesis players to deal with: Wawrinka and Thiem and was injured for a year and half. You know very well that Novak should have won more Slams between 2011 and 2018.

 

[InsideOut900]

I think the problem here is Thiem's absence last 2 years. He was competitive and a strong contender on every slam except wimbledon last 3-4 years. It helped Djokovic and Nadal also Medvedev basically to anyone. We say now Med is the best on hard courts beside Djoko but Thiem was beating Medvedev and others on Slams before 2021

Even though Thiem is a late-bloomer and a bit of a transitional player, I agree he did his job well during his time.

But he was supposed to be replaced by Zverev, with Tsitsipas maturing as well. We were seeing some of that last year with Zverev having deep runs at all 4 Slams and winning YEC.

Zverev is almost 25. Losses like these in his favourite conditions are unacceptable. Tsitsipas has been underwhelming for 6 months now too.

 

[Nuclear]

Really??? Is that stat correct? I knew Djokovic had padded his stats by way of lack of competition with the top stars all getting injured and the next two or three generations being totally incompetent, but I didn't realize it was that bad. Djoke and his fans should be embarrassed.

It was their job as professional tennis player to be healthy and competitive. Plus Rafa has been collecting RGs through these years and got a berrettini open so it' not like he was starving while Djokovic was eating all the buffet.

 

[Phenomenal]

Even though Thiem is a late-bloomer and a bit of a transitional player, I agree he did his job well during his time.

But he was supposed to be replaced by Zverev, with Tsitsipas maturing as well. We were seeing some of that last year with Zverev having deep runs at all 4 Slams and winning YEC.

Zverev is almost 25. Losses like these in his favourite conditions are unacceptable. Tsitsipas has been underwhelming for 6 months now too.

True by the way i don't say like this is strong era no it is just much weaker without Thiem. Zverev was great last year. He just lost to Djokovic on HC slams despite playing very well. Mentally obviously weaker and didn't use his chances.

For Medvedev i was disappointed last years AO F for me it was almost horrible performance he gave up after first set. But he did much better in USO also Djokovic was worse there.

I don't know what you guys think but both Zverev and Med are excellent defenders and movers specially Med. When thing's doesn't go their way they don't have deadly forehands like Nadal Fed Thiem Tsi...

On the other hand they are elite servers and getting benefit from that.

 

[vernonbc]

It was their job as professional tennis player to be healthy and competitive. Plus Rafa has been collecting RGs through these years and got a berrettini open so it' not like he was starving while Djokovic was eating all the buffet.

Rafa sure as heck didn't get 8 slams since 2018, and what is a berrettini open? Of the four times Djoke has played Berrettini, three have been in slams.

 

[Phenomenal]

As a Rafa fan i want to say i'm really getting sick of it all the talks about draws for Rafa. Here in general people talk like only Nadal has easy draws and underestimate his success.

 

[MichaelNadal]

 

[InsideOut900]

Rafa sure as heck didn't get 8 slams since 2018, and what is a berrettini open? Of the four times Djoke has played Berrettini, three have been in slams.

It's 8-6 in Slams won since 2017. Would have been 7-7 if Nadal won RG 21. You can't single out Djokovic here.

 

[killerboss]

Actually you can.

How? If all but 1 or 2 of the players are all garbage then how can the draw be tough?

 

[SardinesForDinner]

If if if doesn’t exist, unless Nadal himself is injured because the man never loses while healthy.

 

[fox]

It's 8-6 in Slams won since 2017. Would have been 7-7 if Nadal won RG 21. You can't single out Djokovic here.

The problem here is Rafa’s 4 of 6 is RG which he wins anyway since 2005 and 2 USO where he also beat Djoko twice in the finals in 10/13. So in fact he just won the Slams he had won also before while Novak wins Slams when he couldn’t win so easily during 2008-2017 besides AO.
And I don’t even mention how injured Nadal is since a very long time.

 

[InsideOut900]

The problem here is Rafa’s 4 of 6 is RG which he wins anyway since 2005 and 2 USO where he also beat Djoko twice in the finals in 10/13. So in fact he just won the Slams he had won also before while Novak wins Slams when he couldn’t win so easily during 2008-2017 besides AO.

And? Nadal could have won a few more himself at AO 17, Wimb 18, Wimb 19, RG 21 and he didn't.

If you want me to say Djokovic benefited the most, sure, he won more than others and his level wasn't always great. But Nadal was there, playing against the exact same field.

And I don’t even mention how injured Nadal is since a very long time.

Ofc.

 

[mike danny]

How? If all but 1 or 2 of the players are all garbage then how can the draw be tough?

AO 2017 was a tough draw and the year as a whole sucked.