Junior 12 yr old, loopy forehand

Curiosity

Professional
Agree that her forehand isn't too loopy. And here's why:

She's twelve and still somewhat slight. However, she does a very good pull-through of the racquet handle, the racquet head keeps dipping out as she turns the corner into the hit, and rises well into the hit. AND, especially, she swings very fast through the hit. That is key, huge, whatever, at that age. Learning to swing fast by age twelve on both sides is psychologically key. Bollettieri insisted it was the one key milestone. The idea is that she'll be able to work on the start and the pronation, but she'll already have the 'fast,' and won't lose it through the gradual evolution of her stroke. The rest can be adjusted as she grows.

As she grows a bit bigger and stronger she will need a bit less loop, and she'll have the strength to pronate more effectively in the hit. In other words, she'll be able to combine a bit more speed and topspin with a slightly less loopy-looking stroke.

I wouldn't worry a bit. I'd just focus on placement with that nice fast swing, and let her grow into the rest. Don't, though, push placement to the detriment of swing speed. Hasten slowly. Good stuff.
 
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Maximagq

Banned
No need to worry, let her find her own thing, she is still young.

This 12 year old junior had a loopy forehand as well, he turned out a decent player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP5hzYkbU0s

:grin:

What I'm confused about is right at the beginning, it shows the opponent hitting a slow kick serve and Nadal moonballing, and when they start playing out the point, Nadal is just ripping his forehand and coming in to finish of a volley.
 

tennis4

Rookie
The coach was trying to make the forehand more like the ATP forehand (shorter swing) but she is not yet able to make the change.

How much training do you think it takes for a junior to develop a forehand and posture like hers, I mean the time/year/month?
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
A little lefty with good form.... she is gonna be just fine. That "loopy" lefty swing is gonna give a lot of girls trouble.

How's her 2hbh and serve?
 

tommyfr

Rookie
I don't agree with the 4 others that were fully positive.

I think there is reason for some worry here (if the ambition is more than hobby tennis ...more towards championship tennis)

- the incoming ball is just medium paced and not deep.
- Still her position is like 3 steps behind baseline and she takes the ball when its on the way down.
- and she does not have high racket head speed in my judgement
- the ball is really attackable and she just push it over defensively

I would like to see her take the ball earlier, with more footwork, attacking, and more rotational power, and more RHS. Smack some "winners".

Yes she should absolutely work on /change/ immediately develop her FH. ATP or not ATP I don't know if its a must....but yes sounds good.
 

tennis4

Rookie
tommyfr: yes, she should get used to hit just behind the baseline and feel comfortable with on the rise. And I agree with all other points. We will work on them.

I appreciate all the feedback from others, too! Very encouraging! A lot of talented kids start as early as 7 yr old, do you think they could develop nice forehand (backhand, serve) after 2-3 years, or it might take longer than that? To some degree it is nice to see her picking up these pieces now but a little worry she might be behind as far as age is concerned.


I don't agree with the 4 others that were fully positive.

I think there is reason for some worry here (if the ambition is more than hobby tennis ...more towards championship tennis)

- the incoming ball is just medium paced and not deep.
- Still her position is like 3 steps behind baseline and she takes the ball when its on the way down.
- and she does not have high racket head speed in my judgement
- the ball is really attackable and she just push it over defensively

I would like to see her take the ball earlier, with more footwork, attacking, and more rotational power, and more RHS. Smack some "winners".

Yes she should absolutely work on /change/ immediately develop her FH. ATP or not ATP I don't know if its a must....but yes sounds good.
 
Not loopy, but...

A. Racquet shouldn't go behind her body on back-swing. There will be no time with hard balls.

B. Her follow through needs to go forward through the ball. She's just T-Rex-ing the ball.
 

Ash_Smith

Legend
Backswing too loopy - no (I would actually have her bring her racquet hand a touch higher so that her prep position is around shoulder height).

Issue for me (which was raised also by tommyfr) is her lack of racquet head speed - maybe for the purpose of the video that wasn't part of the objective I don't know.

She doesn't appear to load particularly well, her arm position is decent during loading phase, but she never appears to set. There is no separation angle between hips and shoulders - so that would be a major block or work for me moving forward.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
A high speed video from the side would be more informative for the "loopy" issue. I would guess that 120 fps is the minimum for her stroke speed but you can still get very useful information if all you have is 60 fps. You would see the path of the racket to the ball and how open the face of the racket is at impact. High level TS forehands impact with a closed racket face.

I don't know what strokes you should compare her forehand to. Perhaps to her own strokes. ? Too loopy why? Racket head speed? Racket path to the ball? How closed the racket face is at impact? Ricki Macci has some recent forehand videos that he demos, often with younger children, say, 9-12? Search: Macci forehand 2012 2013 2014 Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvVcoOl1Cfs

The reference Technique Development for Tennis Stroke Production, 2009, B. Elliott, M. Reid, Crespo, has a nice analysis of the forehand stroke. It also includes developmental information on what children at given stages of development might/should be able to do. Elliott et al have decades of experience in the biomechanical study of tennis strokes based much on scientific analyses. A great reference to keep your approach grounded and on a sound basis.
https://store.itftennis.com/product.asp?pid=86&previousscript=/home.asp

If you don't have high speed video and want to consider, I have some references on cameras, frame rates, etc..
 
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Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
The shutter speed is fast and the motion blur is small. What is your frame rate?

I have not spent much time looking at each of her strokes. You can look into her other forehands to see if these observations are consistent. I also have my opinion on the lag from just looking at some high level forehands and have not looked again now to double check these conclusions in detail.

In my opinion, she simply places the racket into this somewhat fully 'lagged' position. Instead, I believe that it should be done by forward body turn so that the arm and racket 'lags' behind the body turn and, thereby, stretches some muscles in the shoulder, arm and forearm. You should look for this point in high level forehands.
232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv89%3A9%3Dot%3E83%3A6%3D44%3A%3D348%3DXROQDF%3E284%3A984674257ot1lsi



The face of the racket just before impact is about vertical, possibly open a little. Ask her how open she believes the racket face should be. Compare this open-closed issue to those of high level forehands. Closing the face for a given racket head speed probably brings the ball down. See the Tennisspeed discussion on the Djokovic forehand with excellent illustrations.
http://blog.tennisspeed.com/2013/02/a-roadmap-to-hall-of-fame-forehand-part.html#links

Vertical or slightly open racket face just before impact.
232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv7%3A%3A5%3Dot%3E83%3A6%3D44%3A%3D348%3DXROQDF%3E284%3A998823257ot1lsi


Nadal forehand video showing when his lag occurs and the closed face of the racket at impact. Find others.
446685164_960.jpg

https://vimeo.com/63687035
 
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Ash_Smith

Legend
In my opinion, she simply places the racket into this somewhat fully 'lagged' position. Instead, I believe that it should be done by forward body turn so that the arm and racket 'lags' behind the body turn and, thereby, stretches some muscles in the shoulder, arm and forearm. You should look for this point in high level forehands.

You're right Chas - but the young lady in question cannot do as you suggest as she doesn't load correctly - "correct" lag comes from complete loading.
 

tennis4

Rookie
Coil the leg and unloading is another thing we want to build in. Hope she can show some improvement within weeks,?

I am not sure about the frame rate. The normal speed is 60 fps I guess. The slow motion would be 120. lol.

The reason I asked repeatedly normally how long it takes for juniors in her age group to develop this kind of forehand is because she actually hasn't spent YEARS in this sport. She picks up some while we know there are quite a few things to smooth out.


You're right Chas - but the young lady in question cannot do as you suggest as she doesn't load correctly - "correct" lag comes from complete loading.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Coil the leg and unloading is another thing we want to build in. Hope she can show some improvement within weeks,?

I am not sure about the frame rate. The normal speed is 60 fps I guess. The slow motion would be 120. lol.

The reason I asked repeatedly normally how long it takes for juniors in her age group to develop this kind of forehand is because she actually hasn't spent YEARS in this sport. She picks up some while we know there are quite a few things to smooth out.

"YEARS." Surely you jest. I tried to learn the strokes, mostly the serve, using the information that was widely available on tennis strokes for DECADES.

Is your daughter applying the correct techniques. ?

Does she understand what the stretch-shortening cycle is and what it feels like?
 
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"YEARS." Surely you jest. I tried to learn the strokes, mostly the serve, using the information that was widely available on tennis strokes for DECADES.

Is your daughter applying the correct techniques. ?

Does she understand what the stretch-shortening cycle is and what it feels like?

Decades? Why didn't you ever get a coach to teach you?
 

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
Backswing too loopy - no (I would actually have her bring her racquet hand a touch higher so that her prep position is around shoulder height).

Issue for me (which was raised also by tommyfr) is her lack of racquet head speed - maybe for the purpose of the video that wasn't part of the objective I don't know.

She doesn't appear to load particularly well, her arm position is decent during loading phase, but she never appears to set. There is no separation angle between hips and shoulders - so that would be a major block or work for me moving forward.
I only watched the first video. Yea her legs aren't doing much and she looks off when she finishes as a result.
 

mightyrick

Legend
OP, is your student just now developing her forehand or are you looking for minor/nit-picky/advanced tweaks? I see a few posters are really drilling into some pretty advanced details, but how advanced is this student?

There's always things to improve, but this to me looks like the exact path that a WTA forehand would/should take.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Decades? Why didn't you ever get a coach to teach you?

For about 5 years, I had a great instructor in small group lessons. Serving was not covered in the group lessons.

The cost of private lessons is too high for my budget on a regular basis.

But at the end of my group lessons, I made an effort to get a few lessons specifically on "pronation" and the serve. In discussing with one prominent coach, he did not describe clearly what was going to be taught, very little discussion of pronation.

I contacted another club and said that I wanted a private lesson only on pronation and the serve. The lesson was interesting but the closest we got was that the wrist should "snap". Basically there was nothing on 'pronation' and the wrist does not snap......

I now believe that the two instructors that I spoke to did not understand the serve. ?

Sometime after that, I read a thread here on internal shoulder rotation and the serve. Since then everything makes sense on the serve. My work included high speed imaging which I enjoyed. I have experience in the analysis of high speed imaging. Certain Casio cameras from 2008-2010 were excellent for high speed video because they had a very fast manual shutter. These cameras were low cost so anyone with an interest could do very effective high speed video.

When I view tennis instructional videos, hardly any indicate a clear and accurate description of the serve.

I think that quality coaches are great and have accounted for most of the higher level tennis today along with players inventing and developing new strokes themselves.

You seem to have benefited from coaching and frequently advocate coaching. Are you now a coach?
 
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tommyfr

Rookie
Op, you have asked if her FH is something to worry about and about timeframe a number of times, time to develop her forehand to a more competitive one.

As an answer I agree to TCF; the context. What's the context? Whats the ambition? How many hours does she play a normal week now and in the coming couple of years? Since how long did she play? What's her ambition with regards to tennis?

I don't think we should discuss all this here, as its getting too personal and then is against TW policy.

But to fix the forehand, for this kid, vs overthinking middle age hackers :) could take less than 6 months, if working on it a few hrs a week, in a deliberate way, without over complicating the matter.
 

tommyfr

Rookie
How?

Practice in chunks (loading phase is one, racket head speed another; stepping in and taking the ball earlier a third).

I would start with racket head speed.
Just hand feed to her standing to her left, and she hit the ball on volley, gradually give the balls to her in a fast rhythm, like one per second. With that exercise i think the racket face adjustment will take care of itself pretty much. Do this exercise on different parts of the court, serviceline, baseline, midcourt, behind baseline.

Have goals and subgoals. How does it feel? What happens with the ball? Follow up. Try again.
 
I think the swing is nice but she lacks intent. just do everything the same but with the intent to really destroy the ball. she could probably swing much harder with the same mechanics.

she could use her lower body and core better but I think the biggest thing would be to just swing more aggressively.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
As for the serve, she is just following current female serve ideology.
Technically, too high a hitting hand, no archer's bow, body too upright, no leg explosion, just an armed serve. And one weirdo....she places her rackethand almost in front of her head during her loop swing. The hand should be BEHIND the head for the entire loop part, then come forwards as the racket rises to the ball.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Serve has a risk of shoulder impingement - very bad form

I missed the serve video entirely. Maybe someone else had posted and caught this glaring safety problem.

She should stop practicing this immediately as it appears to be a shoulder impingement risk. She does not understand the serve and whoever has taught her does not either.

232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv%3B367%3Dot%3E83%3A6%3D44%3A%3D348%3DXROQDF%3E284%3A%3A5%3A%3B%3A%3A257ot1lsi


See the Ellenbecker video and compare to any high level serve regarding shoulder orientation.
Serve videos
https://vimeo.com/user6237669/videos

See slide #23.
http://en.coaching.itftennis.com/media/114010/114010.pdf

I believe that serving with ISR is never forced and could cause injury if practiced incorrectly. Here are some known issues. With forceful and rapid ISR the small external shoulder rotator cuff muscles have to be conditioned to keep the ball of the humerus in place and to stop the arm rotation in the follow through. See recommended shoulder conditioning exercises. Easy, light exercises.

There are also the important safety issues related to technique such as the shoulder high orientation for the serve to minimize impingement risk. Just one very bad motion can cause injury.

1) Jim McLennan short video on the rotator cuff, impingement and serving
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRvxaBMh8s

2) Todd Ellenbecker video on shoulder anatomy, impingement, and serving. At about minute 8 he describes the same issue as McLennan but in more detail.
http://www.tennisresources.com/index.cfm?area=video_detail&vidid=3712&ATT=&reso=lo

If you are concerned because you are having pain, how can you determine that the technique that you use is OK? You have to study and know the proper technique and verify that you are doing it with high speed video or find a well qualified instructor. Keep in mind that the more rapid motions during the serve cannot be seen by eye or even 60 fps video so an instructor who uses HSV is a plus.

Search: camera behind Chas Tennis
Find many serve analyses that illustrate this point with pictures. She starts already with her arm too high as several of the previous posters have also done.

OP, Your 60 fps camera is too slow to properly show the service motion. It catches random frames on each serve spaced 17 milliseconds apart. You cannot see internal shoulder rotation occur because you can only catch 2-3 random frames of ISR in each serve video.
 
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Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Op, you have asked if her FH is something to worry about and about timeframe a number of times, time to develop her forehand to a more competitive one.

As an answer I agree to TCF; the context. What's the context? Whats the ambition? How many hours does she play a normal week now and in the coming couple of years? Since how long did she play? What's her ambition with regards to tennis?

I don't think we should discuss all this here, as its getting too personal and then is against TW policy.

But to fix the forehand, for this kid, vs overthinking middle age hackers :) could take less than 6 months, if working on it a few hrs a week, in a deliberate way, without over complicating the matter.

What do you think of the Ellenbecker video on serving safety?

I believe that serving with ISR is never forced and could cause injury if practiced incorrectly. Here are some known issues. With forceful and rapid ISR the small external shoulder rotator cuff muscles have to be conditioned to keep the ball of the humerus in place and to stop the arm rotation in the follow through. See recommended shoulder conditioning exercises. Easy, light exercises.

There are also the important safety issues related to technique such as the shoulder high orientation for the serve to minimize impingement risk. Just one very bad motion can cause injury.

1) Jim McLennan short video on the rotator cuff, impingement and serving
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRvxaBMh8s

2) Todd Ellenbecker video on shoulder anatomy, impingement, and serving. At about minute 8 he describes the same issue as McLennan but in more detail.
http://www.tennisresources.com/index.cfm?area=video_detail&vidid=3712&ATT=&reso=lo

If you are concerned because you are having pain, how can you determine that the technique that you use is OK? You have to study and know the proper technique and verify that you are doing it with high speed video or find a well qualified instructor. Keep in mind that the more rapid motions during the serve cannot be seen by eye or even 60 fps video so an instructor who uses HSV is a plus.
 

tennis4

Rookie
It's going to take me some time to go over all the replies, but thank you all very very much for sharing the insights with me.

She look one group lesson (12 weeks) during the winter of 2012 and started private lessons last summer. She is very green in all aspects. Averagely she has put up 12+ hours practice weekly since last June. As you can see it, there are areas here or there she needs to work on in order to take her skill set to the next level. I suspect "ball anticipation" is one hidden issue affecting the quality of shots. She is still exploring the right location before swinging the racquet. To me and others, slow or not move fast enough is our reaction. Given her total time in this sport, I think the nature needs to take its course before the "comfort" level is reached, when she becomes more comfortable or confident.
 
For about 5 years, I had a great instructor in small group lessons. Serving was not covered in the group lessons.

The cost of private lessons is too high for my budget on a regular basis.

But at the end of my group lessons, I made an effort to get a few lessons specifically on "pronation" and the serve. In discussing with one prominent coach, he did not describe clearly what was going to be taught, very little discussion of pronation.

I contacted another club and said that I wanted a private lesson only on pronation and the serve. The lesson was interesting but the closest we got was that the wrist should "snap". Basically there was nothing on 'pronation' and the wrist does not snap......

I now believe that the two instructors that I spoke to did not understand the serve. ?

Sometime after that, I read a thread here on internal shoulder rotation and the serve. Since then everything makes sense on the serve. My work included high speed imaging which I enjoyed. I have experience in the analysis of high speed imaging. Certain Casio cameras from 2008-2010 were excellent for high speed video because they had a very fast manual shutter. These cameras were low cost so anyone with an interest could do very effective high speed video.

When I view tennis instructional videos, hardly any indicate a clear and accurate description of the serve.

I think that quality coaches are great and have accounted for most of the higher level tennis today along with players inventing and developing new strokes themselves.

You seem to have benefited from coaching and frequently advocate coaching. Are you now a coach?

All right. It's pretty cool really that you're good with high speed video. Normally a good coach will help you get a stroke without necessarily explaining all the details. He should know the details, but he doesn't have to explain them. This is why guys like Djokovic will give fairly simple descriptions of strokes; they never studied the strokes but learned them from a very young age from a coach. I've had some coaching, less than most of my peers but some. I've also taught lessons, but I wouldn't consider myself a coach.
 

Curiosity

Professional
The coach was trying to make the forehand more like the ATP forehand (shorter swing) but she is not yet able to make the change.

How much training do you think it takes for a junior to develop a forehand and posture like hers, I mean the time/year/month?

But IF you're not going to let her 'grow a bit' before change, then.......

Making the change toward an ATP-style compact swing (hitting arm action) now, as if that is the appropriate next step on the path shows, bluntly, blindness by her coach. Her swing, her racquet arm action, isn't a problem at the moment, is quite good, especially the RH velocity for such a petite girl, and if anything teaching her to take the racquet back on the line of a WTA-typical backswing is much more appropriate, Sharapova-style, if you will. But the groundwork has not been prepared!

Has the coach, have you, studied a good WTA forehand, obtained good video and examined the swing. Get video of Sharapova from different angles. (She just won the French again. What more do you need? Make sure you get video from the off arm side, and from the back, not just the hitting side, and get it in slo mo or in a format that allows frame-by-frame advance.)

Provided MS happens to be wearing a sleaveless top in the video filmed from the off-side and from the back, you'll notice that just as she starts to rotate her UB and pull her racquet handle forward, and through the pull-out, a good model for the 12 yr old's next swing evolution, Sharapova's upper back muscles just by the LEFT shoulder blade flex, bulge out, in the most remarkable manner. They literally pop out. Look for yourself. You can't miss it. I can still remember the first time I saw it.

Why does that happen? After all, she's hitting a forehand with her right arm? Ask the coach. Ask yourself. Maria is a much larger person than the 12 yr old is like to be, yet even Sharapova needs, works for, the full power of the off-arm swing and VERY hard elbow pull-in/back to generate UB rotation power. The men can make the off-arm work look smooth and 'no big deal.' They bring much more muscle to the game. The women can't.

This girl is supposed to progress? But her coaches don't know this? Haven't considered what must come first, the ability to generate more rotational power with the off-arm and legs, versus developing the compact swing that demands such power before it can work? You are putting the cart before the horse.

How on earth do you expect her to power a racquet out from a compact start when she hasn't even been taught the basics of rotation mechanics? Get the video's. Analyze what Sharapova is doing. Start by nailing the off-arm swing and pull in. It takes work, understanding, and timing. Progress to greater effective leg flex, use, on every single forehand whenever it is possible to set up. Then and only then consider showing her the Sharapova take-back, pull-forward, and swing. Only then will she have the power to make it worth the trouble.

That's my view and I'm sticking to it. The dear girl needs thoughtful steps of progression. There is an order of development, and it matters. And I've explained why in this instance.
.
 
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Curiosity

Professional
But IF you're not going to let her 'grow a bit' before change, then.......

Making the change toward an ATP-style compact swing (hitting arm action) now, as if that is the appropriate next step on the path shows, bluntly, blindness by her coach. Her swing, her racquet arm action, isn't a problem at the moment, is quite good, especially the RH velocity for such a petite girl, and if anything teaching her to take the racquet back on the line of a WTA-typical backswing is much more appropriate, Sharapova-style, if you will. But the groundwork has not been prepared!

.

Someone said "the racquet head shouldn't go behind her back." I disagree. See MS.

The ATP has a meaning today which primarily denotes the position and angle of the racquet at launch. This stroke form requires strength, especially in the forearm, and if done incorrectly (catching the racquet's weight on the wrist rather than the forearm muscles on the 'supinate and pull-out), can damage the wrist.

Sharapova's form DOES take advantage of many rotational power forms. Specifically, she does get her hitting upper arm back behind the chest line so that when she does the external rotation of her upper arm in the launch (AKA, the elbow pull-through...), the arm locks up, i.e. is forced forward by her shoulder rotation.

Her knees are well-bent preparing for each forehand, and she extends her legs well into the hit.

The off-arm power, leg-power, better positioning of feet so that UB turnback sets up the effective use of the legs through the hit, each should be added before the final step:

The final step is to learn to get the take-back loop to bring her hitting upper arm close to her side so that as she begins the rotation she can effectively roll her upper arm externally, pull through her hitting elbow, and hit like the big girls.

It isn't as though this sequence is difficult to detect, or rarely described in the online tennis 'literature.'
 
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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
I missed the serve video entirely. Maybe someone else had posted and caught this glaring safety problem.



232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv%3B367%3Dot%3E83%3A6%3D44%3A%3D348%3DXROQDF%3E284%3A%3A5%3A%3B%3A%3A257ot1lsi
HSyHJgC.jpg



How does this risk impingement?

Jim McClennan video says to drop the front shoulder to prevent shoulder impingement.

Isn't she doing that?
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
"YEARS." Surely you jest. I tried to learn the strokes, mostly the serve, using the information that was widely available on tennis strokes for DECADES.

Is your daughter applying the correct techniques. ?

Does she understand what the stretch-shortening cycle is and what it feels like?


Wow Decades. And you still obsess about the same exact things? :shock:
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
The important thing is the angle of the upper arm bone and its relation to the acromion.

The shoulder that experiences the impingement is the hitting shoulder. To get the correct position the tossing shoulder probably has to be down - but that does not guarantee that things are OK. Look at the angle of McClellan's hitting shoulder in his demo and compare it to the OP's.

Look at the Ellenbecker video starting at minute 8. You lose a lot having me explain Ellenbecker's detailed video.

See those from behind and at impact. Most serve video thumbnails are at impact.
https://vimeo.com/user6237669/videos

Google: shoulder impingement

Google: tennis serve impact pictures
Look at camera views from the behind view of high level servers.

Look for the shoulder orientation at impact for high level servers.
367316012_960.jpg


I believe this because of the Ellenbecker video and the fact that this is how nearly all high level servers are seen to serve in high speed videos.

I've posted before with various pictures and problems with poster's serves.
Search: camera behind Chas Tennis

Search: Ellenbecker video Chas Tennis
 
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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
The important thing is the angle of the upper arm bone and its relation to the acromion.

The shoulder that experiences the impingement is the hitting shoulder. To get the correct position the tossing shoulder probably has to be down - but that does not guarantee that things are OK. Look at the angle of McClellan's hitting shoulder in his demo and compare it to the OP's.

Look at the Ellenbecker video starting at minute 8. You lose a lot having me explain Ellenbecker's detailed video.


Ellenbecker talks about the risk of injury when there is > 90 degree shoulder abduction and importance of dropping the tossing shoulder.

So the OP has dropped the tossing shoulder correctly, but has abducted the shoulder > 90 degrees?
 

gplracer

Hall of Fame
I think she has a good base. It just needs to be refined and further developed over time.

Wow this is post 1,000 for me.
 

gplracer

Hall of Fame
tennis4. I sent you a message on youtube and link to my son's forehand. He just turned 12 this month.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Ellenbecker talks about the risk of injury when there is > 90 degree shoulder abduction and importance of dropping the tossing shoulder.

So the OP has dropped the tossing shoulder correctly, but has abducted the shoulder > 90 degrees?

I don't know about the tossing shoulder. Compare to high level serves.

Her abduction, I don't have a protractor now, might be 135 degrees instead of somewhat above 90°, say 110°, as a guessed average for most high level serves. There are variations among high level serves and probably variations for the type of serve.

You should take some videos of your own serve.

After you have noticed this issue you can see that many servers on the courts often do not adhere to this recommendation. Maybe they have their own serving technique. ?
 
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Curiosity

Professional
Tennis4: No view on the rotation form (off-arm and leg use) training before the "ATP-syle forehand"? Any view on the Sharpova technique?
 
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