Madrid Masters cancels doubles

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
The Tennis Masters Series-Madrid, the same event that turned the court into a catwalk in hiring models to work as ball girls last year, announced today it will not host a doubles competition at the tournament until "the antitrust lawsuit brought by 45 doubles players against the ATP and its Board of Directors Members is withdrawn or resolved."

Essentially, the tournament is staging a lock out to prevent doubles players from participating.

Tennis Masters Series-Madrid tournament organizers said today if the lawsuit is not resolved by the start of the tournament on October 17th "the organization of the Masters Series Madrid will cancel the doubles competition and will donate 50 percent of the doubles prize money (about $202,726) to the ATP Player's Retirement Plan."

"We believe that the ATP new rules will help the doubles grow and take this great competition out of the dark hole is in at the moment," Gerard Tsobanian, General Manager at the Masters Series Madrid said in a statement. "Doubles matches at ATP tournaments around the world go on unnoticed, attracting very small crowds. By making it more accessible to top singles players, with a new format and short matches we feel that this competition will become more attractive to the fans. We consider that the lawsuit filed by these 45 doubles players makes no sense and therefore it is not coherent for us to organize the doubles draw this year in Madrid with these same players while they are in the middle of a lawsuit against the ATP, of which we are members."

It is the latest shot in an escalating high-stakes shootout between doubles players and ATP tournaments.

On September 1st, several highly-ranked doubles players joined forces as plaintiffs in filing a lawsuit in a Southern District Texas Federal Court against the ATP and members of its board of directors. Grand Slam doubles champions Mark Knowles, Bob Bryan, Mike Bryan, Mahesh Bhupathi and Jonas Bjorkman are among the players voicing their opposition to the ATP's new experimental scoring system that shrinks doubles sets to five games rather than six with a tiebreaker at 4-4. Additionally, an ATP initiative proposed to go into effect in 2008 would permit only the top six to eight doubles teams entry into tournaments, while denying lower-ranked doubles players entry into in tournaments if they did not also qualify for the singles draws.

The players' lawsuit alleges that the ATP's proposed experimental efforts to "enhance" doubles competition is in fact a concerted effort by tournament directors to diminish and eventually eliminate doubles players' ability to gain entry into main draws as a cost-cutting measure to save the tournament's money. The international law firm of Fulbright & Jaworski L.L.P. and the Houston-based firm of Ellis, Carstarphen, Dougherty & Goldenthal P.C. filed suit on behalf of many of the top doubles players, identifying them in court papers as a "submarket" of the men's professonal tour and alleging that the ATP's directors have "violated their fiduciary obligations to the players by enacting rules that prevent doubles players from competing, contrary to the express wishes of the players." Furthermore, the suit seeks an injunction to "stop the ATP's and its directors' alleged unlawful and anti competitive conduct against athletes who excel in doubles. The players charge the ATP and its directors with antitrust violations and breaches of fiduciary duties."

Tennis Week has contacted the ATP for further comment. Today's announcement raises several questions: Does the Madrid tournament have the authority to cancel the doubles event under existing ATP rules? Is this the first in a series of potential doubles tournament cancellations? Are Madrid tournament officials acting with full or partial support o of the ATP Board?

Rule 2.03 in the 2005 Official ATP Rulebook states: "Any ATP or Challenger Series Tournament that defaults in payment of prize money or tournament fee or any other payments due to the ATP may have its membership status (sanctioned status if a Challenger Series Tournament) changed subject to ATP Bylaws."

Because many of the top doubles players do not play singles events, they contend the proposed enhancements would effectively eradicate several doubles specialists and jeopardize the integrity of the game.

Even before Madrid announced it had suspended doubles play, some prominent doubles players already believed doubles was facing a death sentence from the Tour.

"There is no credibility left for the ATP," said Knowles, who partnered Daniel Nestor to beat the Bryan brothers, 6-3, 6-4, and win the 2004 Madrid title. "They are basically trying to annihilate one form of the game, which is doubles."

Essentially, the players are suing the very union that was created to represent them and believe the ATP is placing the interests of tournament directors above its own players when it comes to doubles. It is an economic issue in that tournament directors want to save money, while players want to preserve their jobs. Knowles said doubles players have made repeated concessions over the years and have come to the conclusion that taking their case to court — and making a case for preserving jobs for doubles players through the media to the tennis fan base — is the only recourse to spare doubles specialists a death sentence.

"My stance on it is we have to fight," Knowles said. "This time when the tournament directors were shooting they wanted to see how many bullets were in the gun. When I discussed the 2008 initiatives (at a recent ATP meeting) half to three quarters of the tournament directors in the room had no idea what I was referring to. I really get the feeling there are two or three people totally speaking for the bunch."

In an interview with Tennis Week conducted during the U.S. Open, recently-appointed ATP President, Europe Horst Klosterkemper, said doubles does not draw the crowds that singles does and suggested doubles controversy, rather than competition, is what commands coverage from the media.

"You tennis people have to admit that the fish and not the angler has to enjoy the bait," Klosterkemper told Tennis Week. "Daily newspapers only cover controversy, not the game of doubles. It really hurt my heart to see at a Grand Slam doubles event when 90 percent of the people did not stay for the men’s doubles finals [this year's match at Roland Garros where the No. 3 seed team of Jonas Bjorkman/Max Mirnyi defeated the No. 2 seed Bryan brothers] after the women’s semifinals and half of the people in stands at Roland Garros left after first set. The doubles issue has been on the table nine years and it has not been fixed in a way that enhances situation of doubles at all. It came to a point where we had to make a decision where we had to enhance the product of doubles."

The talk of "enhancement" has now escalated to an act of elimination in Madrid.

http://www.sportsmediainc.com/tennisweek/index.cfm?func=showarticle&newsid=14004&bannerregion=
 

callitout

Professional
Fascinating post. Both sides have a point. Ultimately, though, the players checks come from revenue drawn from gate sales and television. Doubles is non-existant on television, and very few people show up to tennis tournaments to watch doubles (I know many diehards on this board do). So the doubles is a bit of a parasite financially in its present form. I think this is the rub. They get what are still large sums of money, yet they dont generate the revenue to justify it. So now the ATP is trying to corrupt the game and invent some new game that is sort of like doubles, but with different rules to make it supposedly more fan friendly. Doubt it will work. But I understant the impetus for change.
 

arosen

Hall of Fame
I guess ATP has financial reasons for cutting the dubs down. I truly hope they keep at least some form of doubles, so many people play doubles at home, those are the people that come out to watch the pros, even if there ain't too many of dubs fans compared to singles fans. Truth is, the majority of people that come out to watch tennis at the tourneys don't really play doubles all that much or at all. Those are the fans ATP uses to explain their decisions....
 

Marius_Hancu

Talk Tennis Guru
the players should all strike.
this is 1973-74 all over again.
quite high stakes.
but I doubt they will.
they've become much more individualistic and egoistic.
 

need2paint

Rookie
they should keep the game the way it is (normal scoring), but lower the prize money. very few people are interested in doubles and that is not going to change by changing the scoring system.
 

Noelle

Hall Of Fame
This is sad. I thought that the doubles controversy was just about over with the ATP and the doubles players reaching some sort of compromise last month. :(
 

TENNIS2

Rookie
Marius_Hancu said:
...this is 1973-74 all over again...


What happened in 1973-74? Thx.

My opinion is that the ATP tour is a business model and so the product has to justify the investment. Double tennis just does not generate the income, unfortunately so.
 

AndrewD

Legend
Marius_Hancu said:
the players should all strike.
this is 1973-74 all over again.
quite high stakes.
but I doubt they will.
they've become much more individualistic and egoistic.

Second option Marius and a much tougher one would be to encourage a break-away group -singles and doubles- to snap the lock the ATP has on the players. Europe, in general, seems to be driving these changes (European promoters I mean) so it might be time for the American players to see if they can call a halt to things state-side. Maybe it isn't possible but they've got to try something. They've got more bargaining power than the Australians or Swedes (to name just two nations whose players would give them backing) and not a lot to lose.
 

Marius_Hancu

Talk Tennis Guru
AndrewD said:
Second option Marius and a much tougher one would be to encourage a break-away group -singles and doubles- to snap the lock the ATP has on the players. Europe, in general, seems to be driving these changes (European promoters I mean) so it might be time for the American players to see if they can call a halt to things state-side. Maybe it isn't possible but they've got to try something.

there was Wayne Ferrera trying something along these lines, nothing came out of it ...

I truly feel this is the tournaments/ITF having a lock on the ATP leadership or part of it.
 

TENNIS2

Rookie
Matthew said:
So they plan on helping doubles by ... not holding a doubles tournament? Genius.

Yeah, what a bright idea! But I think no love is lost here. The ATP is not trying to help at all. W/o the doubles they are doing better financially.

BTW, thx for the link Marius.
 

Dilettante

Hall of Fame
As some of you said, we like or not but tennis is business. Without the business, we wouldn't have the Grand Slams and the rest of tournaments. Someone has to afford these tournaments.

If doubles don't generate enough money to cover the percentage of investment that the organization of tournaments make, then doubles may end disappearing. The actual doubles specialists of course want the doubles competition to remain as it is now, but they're not who'll have to afford that, so their attitude is logical. But they'll have to accept some serious changes, because those who do afford the tournaments might end not holding doubles any more.

Tournament organizations and sponsors invest money to make more money, not to lose it.

Matthew said:
So they plan on helping doubles by ... not holding a doubles tournament? Genius.

I think you don't get the point. Consider it an "tournament organization's strike". It's like saying: "If you want me to hold doubles next years, make it more profitable for me".

Your point of view as a tennis fan has nothing to do with the investors point of view.
 

Don II

New User
Well I consider doubles to be a bunch of old men with wooden racquets dressed in all white with long socks with their shirts tucked in. Guys that perhaps couldn't make the cut for singles. I can definately see why it's never broadcast on TV and costs the ATP money. I love watching singles, but doubles is just unwatchable for me. It's boring as f*ck, lifeless and always will be unless the ATP makes changes.
 

rhubarb

Hall of Fame
I can't believe how little love doubles gets nowadays. Based on what I've read on various tennis forums recently, a lot fans seem to have a strong dislike for the doubles game, to say the least. How things have changed, and what a shame.
 

sandro

Semi-Pro
If I was the ATP GM, I would "spin-off" the doubles activity. Just create an ATP-X only for doubles with its own structure, tournaments and so on. Of course, you will not get any big name of singles playing this new league (who cares anyway?), but this would allow a better and more cost-effective management.
just my 0.02$
 

Dilettante

Hall of Fame
sandro said:
If I was the ATP GM, I would "spin-off" the doubles activity. Just create an ATP-X only for doubles with its own structure, tournaments and so on. Of course, you will not get any big name of singles playing this new league (who cares anyway?), but this would allow a better and more cost-effective management.
just my 0.02$

I do get your point.

But, the question is: Who would pay for that? Who would sponsor that and invest in that? Today's doubles tournaments fiancially depend on singles tournaments, because the singles make the money and the doubles just don't.

Some tournaments seem to not want to finance that any more, at least if rules aren't changed to make doubles more profitable.

And yes, Madrid MS attitude is a serious warning to take in consideration for the future.
 

Noelle

Hall Of Fame
It's a vicious cycle, I think. Tournaments don't promote doubles, thus doubles doesn't draw the crowds. Doubles doesn't draw the crowds, so tournaments don't promote doubles. I'm aware, though, that some doubles-only events held in previous years didn't make enough money to justify their existence. Part of it may stem from the fact that since doubles partnerships these days are fluid, the doubles players aren't as marketable as singles players. The Bryan brothers Bob and Mike are kind of the exception to this rule in that they have established a sort of "brand," but they're still not household names.

I wonder if all means have been exhausted to market doubles with the traditional scoring. Surely if you build it, they will come? :p But that's the optimist in me speaking.
 

Ash Doyle

Professional
Marius_Hancu said:
there was Wayne Ferrera trying something along these lines, nothing came out of it ...

I truly feel this is the tournaments/ITF having a lock on the ATP leadership or part of it.

The ITF has nothing to do with it. They rejected the changes; and thats why you won't see the new scoring system in doubles at the slams. It appears to be that the tournament directors now have too much power in the ATP, an organization that started out as a PLAYER'S union.
 

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
The ATP has issued an order to Madrid tournament officials: they must host a doubles event at the Tennis Masters Series-Madrid, which begins on October 17th.

Less than 24 hours after Masters Series Madrid General Manager Gerard Tsobanian announced the tournament would not host a doubles competition at the tournament until "the antitrust lawsuit brought by 45 doubles players against the ATP and its Board of Directors Members is withdrawn or resolved", the ATP overruled and said it has ordered Madrid officials to host a doubles event.

"The ATP was unaware of the Masters Series Madrid’s decision to announce that they planned to suspend their doubles competition in support of the ATP, which has been sued by a number of doubles players," the ATP told Tennis Week in a statement Wednesday morning. "Irrespective of the tournament’s motivation, they have been advised that they are not in a position to unilaterally make such changes. Therefore, we have informed Madrid tournament management that they must hold a doubles event


http://www.sportsmediainc.com/tennisweek/index.cfm?func=showarticle&newsid=14012&bannerregion=
 
That was an admirable move of respect and civility by the ATP. Even though they are battling it out with some players, doubles specialists, who do not agree with their policies, they did not take the opportunity to further punish them out of bitterness and spite by allowing Madrid to abort a doubles tournaments. Good stuff, hopefully this will need to some friendlier negotiations, some give and take from both, and a settlement both can live with. Shame on you Madrid for what you tried to do!
 

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
The drama continues....

The Tennis Masters Series Madrid is still saying no mas to doubles. The tournament has received the ATP's decree that it must host a doubles event, but is steadfastly standing by its decision to eliminate doubles unless the "antitrust lawsuit brought by 45 doubles players against the ATP and its Board of Directors Members is withdrawn or resolved" by the October 17th start of the tournament.

Hours after the ATP issued a statement ordering Madrid officials to stage a doubles competition at the tournament, a tournament spokesperson told Tennis Week, Madrid officials have no plans to host doubles unless the lawsuit is settled. Madrid officials bounced the ball back into the court of the litigants in saying the players must settle the suit against the ATP before they will consent to host the doubles event.

"We received the communication (from the ATP) and we still maintain our position of not having it (doubles)," Madrid Director of Communications Cecilia Casla told Tennis Week Wednesday afternoon. "We hope there is maybe some reaction or response from the players (to settle the suit). As I said: we are still in the same position as we were yesterday (when the tournament announced it was suspending doubles). Nothing has changed."

The comments came just hours after the ATP ordered Madrid to stage a doubles event in accordance with Tour rules.

http://www.sportsmediainc.com/tennisweek/index.cfm?func=showarticle&newsid=14016&bannerregion=
 

Noelle

Hall Of Fame
Monkeys are running the Madrid event. :roll: Well, that's just my opinion on the whole thing.
 

ejdtennis

New User
First, let me say that I play mostly doubles and do watch it when attending tournaments... (sometimes even on TV - certainly in Davis Cup!!!)

Call me unsympathetic to the doubles specialists' plight but bottom line is that professional tennis is a business like anything else. The tournaments exist to make money and if doubles doesn't bring them enough income, they have every right to do away with it (or at least the prize money...).

I do feel that the 4 Grand Slams may be the only exceptions to this as I think history/tradition dictates that there be some form of doubles there.

So many doubles specialists who can't cut it in singles will have to start teaching tennis or something else to make a living... If they feel they can pull in fans on their own, they SHOULD start their own doubles tour!

Perhaps the ATP had the right to make Madrid hold the doubles, but I personally don't see anything wrong with the decision to cancel...
 

Noelle

Hall Of Fame
This guy has an interesting take on the role of doubles:

http://tennispro.com/WordPress/?p=221
Despite substantial opposition and low support in the polls, the ruling party pushes thru changes. When challenged, the answer is :

a) OUR polls show that OUR policies have support, and
b) S****W you, we’re gonna go do it anyway.

In tennis – everyone who plays or knows tennis well likes doubles. They play doubles more than singles. The doubles matches at the US open last year had good crowds. It was hard to get a seat at the matches Gonzalez/Massu played, even though these were early round matches. The two Chinese girls who won the Gold medal had a huge following, too – although personally I thought that match was pretty bad for the portion we watched because everyone stayed back and had endless cross court rallies on each point.

Suddenly out of the blue, the money people want to assert their power. As Scott posted, tournaments are starting to cancel doubles. The next step, when thinking money is to cancel the qualification segments. The next would be to have “tournaments” based on popularity (exhibition matches).

Have they thought this through ?? For instance, the one week tournaments with only men or only women will have Saturday semifinals. One match at 1 pm and another at 7pm. Without doubles, your expensive semifinal tickets may last only 45 minutes when the semifinal match is lopsided. I contend that many ticket buyers will think of NOT going – after all, they are devoting an entire afternoon or evening to watch tennis.

Imagine buying the expensive tickets, driving to the stadium, parking your car for $15, eating those C**P arena hotdogs – and Roger is in a foul mood, winning the semi 6-1, 6-0 in 44 minutes. Would you think twice before buying next year’s tickets ?????

mz
 

peter

Professional
Have they thought this through ?? For instance, the one week tournaments with only men or only women will have Saturday semifinals. One match at 1 pm and another at 7pm. Without doubles, your expensive semifinal tickets may last only 45 minutes when the semifinal match is lopsided. I contend that many ticket buyers will think of NOT going – after all, they are devoting an entire afternoon or evening to watch tennis.

Definitely true. Atleast for me. I've chosen to go to this years Stockholm Open on the Friday session so I can maximize the number of matches I can watch (the entrance fee covers all matches). I'll be able to watch five matches on the main court (and (I think) opt to watch three on the secondary court if the ones on the main court turns out to be boring).

Last year I chose the Wednesday sessions and had the possibility to watch many matches (both singles and doubles). Especially since I'll have a two-hour car trip to get to the arena (and another two-hour car trip to get home) I'm not so interested in going to the semis or the finals (too few matches to watch) - and even more so if they would get away with the doubles matches.
 

sandro

Semi-Pro
Dilettante said:
I do get your point.
But, the question is: Who would pay for that? Who would sponsor that and invest in that? Today's doubles tournaments fiancially depend on singles tournaments, because the singles make the money and the doubles just don't.
....
Well, it's hard, no doubt. At least, when the Doubles will be spun-off they will be forced to act and find the right formulas to survive. Right now they just live in the shadows of the Singles.
 

Aykhan Mammadov

Hall of Fame
I'm with 2 hands for ATP. Why to pay to doubles' players if the crowd doesn't watch them ? I don't also.

I suggest doubles to organise new Association of Doubles' Tennis Players = ADTP because why to pay money that singles deserved and earned to doubles ? Let them in new ADTP go and organise their own tournaments and etc...
 
L

laurie

Guest
I don't watch as much doubles as singles. However, I think doubles in Davis Cup and Fed Cup are great. Also, watching the seniors play doubles at slam events are a lot of fun.

Just a few years ago the likes of Rafter and Hingis had a high ranking in singles and doubles.

Maybe there needs to be a whole shift in attitude to stop top players been selfish and not play doubles sighting busy schedules. Their selfishness is helping to kill the game of doubles.
 

crazylevity

Hall of Fame
I agree. If Federer et al start playing in doubles, who wouldn't watch? If Federer/Agassi vs Safin/Nadal were playing, as compared to Coria vs Roddick, which match would you watch?
 

Dilettante

Hall of Fame
ejdtennis said:
First, let me say that I play mostly doubles and do watch it when attending tournaments... (sometimes even on TV - certainly in Davis Cup!!!)

Call me unsympathetic to the doubles specialists' plight but bottom line is that professional tennis is a business like anything else. The tournaments exist to make money and if doubles doesn't bring them enough income, they have every right to do away with it (or at least the prize money...).

I do feel that the 4 Grand Slams may be the only exceptions to this as I think history/tradition dictates that there be some form of doubles there.

So many doubles specialists who can't cut it in singles will have to start teaching tennis or something else to make a living... If they feel they can pull in fans on their own, they SHOULD start their own doubles tour!

Perhaps the ATP had the right to make Madrid hold the doubles, but I personally don't see anything wrong with the decision to cancel...


I agree in a 100%.

I think that some people just don't realize that their own personal preferences, if they like doubles or not, has nothing to do with business and a torunament management.

I see a lot of wishful thinking about this matter.

For example:

In tennis – everyone who plays or knows tennis well likes doubles. They play doubles more than singles. The doubles matches at the US open last year had good crowds. It was hard to get a seat at the matches Gonzalez/Massu played, even though these were early round matches. The two Chinese girls who won the Gold medal had a huge following, too – although personally I thought that match was pretty bad for the portion we watched because everyone stayed back and had endless cross court rallies on each point.

Suddenly out of the blue, the money people want to assert their power. As Scott posted, tournaments are starting to cancel doubles. The next step, when thinking money is to cancel the qualification segments. The next would be to have “tournaments” based on popularity (exhibition matches).

This is called demagogy.

The business in EVERY sport is based on popularity. No popularity, no audiences. No popularity, no business.

This guy should invest his money in a big new tournament... then he could keep the doubles alive paying it with his own money if he wants to. Money for new doubles prizes will be welcome.
 

Aykhan Mammadov

Hall of Fame
Fed Cup as well as Davis Cup is not an ATP event, so it is irrelevant is it great or not to play doubles at Davis. Don't confuse "country team" and a double. Compare for example in running " country team" running and "double" running. Let doubles organise their own association of ADTP and earn and play there.

The qusetion will people watch if Fed or Agassi play doubles? - is also irrelevant and meaningless because the question itself proves how much single players such as Fed, Agassi and etc.. deserved. Why not to ask the same question about Bryans or others ? Answer - is NOT. I don't watch them at all.

If to add to doubles also mixes then it is completely worthless tennis, just show off, even when one pair lose to another they don't feel it and start laughing as if they did something non-serious. IMHO doubles must exist as a pleasure for aristocratic women/men, not as a sport. Imagine doubles in chess, box. In the end tennis is not slalom.

It is possible to accept doubles if to pay them in ratio with singles 1:10000. Sy if Fed earns in the final 1000,000$ double players must win 100$.

Both doubles and mixes spend money which singles earned.
 

Rodzilla

Semi-Pro
Why am I sensing this will lead to the complete demise of doubles? I was thinking either make singles stars play doubles, or makes stars out of doubles specialists. I guess the ATP is trying the latter. I don't advocate doubles much, but I think they should keep it at least a little bit because it could be a nice escape for players for the enjoyment and teamwork.
 
The game is just too physicaly taxing today to expect top players to want to play doubles. They play too much singles, they are forced to by the rules and their regular success going deep in tournaments, and the women especialy already have a large share of injuries and weariness as it is. Not everybody can be expected to be the incredable Navratilova, and the game is different than when she played.
 

JRoss

New User
It’s quite sad. At one time most of the top players were in the doubles, as well—Rosewall/Stolle, Laver/Emerson, Newcombe/Roche, Smith/Lutz, McEnroe/Fleming, Gottfried/Ramirez, just to mention some of the men. It really enhanced our sport. There may be no solution, but why not try a doubles tournament the week before each of the Slams—when the top guys might be available?
 

Rpp

Rookie
Aykhan Mammadov said:
I'm with 2 hands for ATP. Why to pay to doubles' players if the crowd doesn't watch them ? I don't also.

I suggest doubles to organise new Association of Doubles' Tennis Players = ADTP because why to pay money that singles deserved and earned to doubles ? Let them in new ADTP go and organise their own tournaments and etc...

I bet you don't watch doubles. There isn't that many ATP tournaments in Baku or around the area. Anyway many doubles matches are great entertainment. Very often they aren't and that is because of singles players are tanking.

Doubles can be even pretty important for some tournaments. Let's say singles final lasts less than 60 minutes. Anybody paying 20-30 dollars/euro's for that might not return the year after because of bad entertainment value. Then a doubles final can be at least a small extra.

Doubles are a great part on tennis tradition. Many club players play just doubles. Would be a shame if this long tradition is ignored.
 

Rob_C

Hall of Fame
I understand the doubles specialist dont want to see their source of income jeopardized, but the fact is that doubles doesnt really draw crowds. Maybe, a few exceptions, the Williams sisters, when they used to play, the Bryan Bros.

However, when the ATP experimented with the doubles only version of the Masters, it bombed. The stands were mostly empty, I'm sure it got horrible ratings. They tried hosting it in different cities, Hartford, and I think in Asia somewhere, but they figured it was better to piggyback the singles Masters in the end.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
I think the new scoring is kind of lame, and will not really accomplish the goal of getting top singles players to play doubles. However, the heart of the problem is not the scoring, but the 2008 requirement that doubles players must also be in the singles draw. Obviously, this is going to cut a number of players out of the tournament. The ATP is essentially a players union, and by agreeing to these new changes, they have cut the "jobs" of the doubles specialists... which is not something that a union should be so eager to do. Therefore, it is easy to see why the 45 doubles players are suing the organization that is supposed to be looking out for them!!!

The argument by owners for retraction, salary caps, etc in other professional sports is usually backed up with stats about how the organizations are losing money. I have yet to see any articles or statistics that say that tennis tournaments are losing money by having a doubles draw. (Does anybody have a link for this?)

Rather, it seems that tournament organizers are not trying to eliminate doubles, but make it more attractive by having more big name players involved. The reality is that big name singles players have become so specialized, and the financial rewards of singles are so great, that I doubt that they will ever go back to playing doubles regularly unless they were contractually obligated to play (perhaps by tying their ranking points, bonuses, appearance fees, or prize money to participation). However, even if Federer and Roddick were playing doubles, I doubt that ESPN and other television networks would really spend much time on covering it... nor would a ticket buying fan come to the tournament just to see doubles. So, what this comes down to is that doubles is really just an added "extra" for every event to fill in time between singles matches.

So in summary:

1.) The doubles specialists that are suing the ATP are justified in believing that their union is not representing their best interests.

2.) The new changes, in their current form, will not likely attract any top singles players to begin playing doubles.

3.) Doubles is a valuable extra event for ticket buying fans that fills in time in between singles matches (kind of like opening bands at a concert).

4.) Tournaments do not seem to be losing money, so the motivation seems to be geared more toward getting more appearance time out of the top singles players. However, this will not work unless the singles players are contractually obligated to do so.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Furthermore, this fiasco where Madrid is threatening to cancel the doubles despite an ATP demand to hold it should be addressed strongly by the ATP!

The ATP can be correctly criticized that they are bowing too much to tournament organizers with these doubles changes, but if they want to show that they have any power and relevancy for the players, they need to put Madrid in their place! The main way to do this is to take away sanctioning of the tournament as an official event or demote it from being included in the Masters Series.

The thing that is really interesting to me is that the ATP is a PLAYERS union, but very few of the top singles players seem to be supporting their brothers in the doubles ranks. If they really believe in the new doubles changes, they should be backing them up by entering the doubles draws (which they aren't). Then, if they don't agree with the changes, they should be threatening to pull out of singles events unless the doubles player concerns are addressed.

If I were somebody like Federer, I think I would be pretty ticked off by what the Madrid tournament organizers are trying to do. I think I would be looking out for friends like Olivier Rochus (who is a doubles guy who only has a good singles result every once and awhile). In my opinion, as the top player in the world, he should be leading the players within the ATP and openly put out his willingness to pull out of events like Madrid until this mess gets cleaned up.
 

opiate

Semi-Pro
Jack the Hack said:
Furthermore, this fiasco where Madrid is threatening to cancel the doubles despite an ATP demand to hold it should be addressed strongly by the ATP!

The ATP can be correctly criticized that they are bowing too much to tournament organizers with these doubles changes, but if they want to show that they have any power and relevancy for the players, they need to put Madrid in their place! The main way to do this is to take away sanctioning of the tournament as an official event or demote it from being included in the Masters Series.

The thing that is really interesting to me is that the ATP is a PLAYERS union, but very few of the top singles players seem to be supporting their brothers in the doubles ranks. If they really believe in the new doubles changes, they should be backing them up by entering the doubles draws (which they aren't). Then, if they don't agree with the changes, they should be threatening to pull out of singles events unless the doubles player concerns are addressed.

If I were somebody like Federer, I think I would be pretty ticked off by what the Madrid tournament organizers are trying to do. I think I would be looking out for friends like Olivier Rochus (who is a doubles guy who only has a good singles result every once and awhile). In my opinion, as the top player in the world, he should be leading the players within the ATP and openly put out his willingness to pull out of events like Madrid until this mess gets cleaned up.


Is that a wise move, though?

The organisers seem to think that doubles=loss, where the expenses of the feeding and caring of doubles specialist is obviously not balanced by the revenues generated by the doubles. I don't think they'll shift a finger. Although, by singles players of Fed's caliber pulling out, they'll lose even more. However, who's saying that the organisers won't move to penalise singles players who pull out? Out of spite maybe?

Maybe the players don't think that it is politically-worthed, esp. for singles players?

I agree that doubles shouldn't be abolished, because it's such an entertaining show on courts. And I share the sentiment that single players should make an effort to play doubles. But... *shrug*

And the plans to add more events to the Tour isn't helping the doubles much, it only helping to increase the 'work'load in an otherwise already full singles-schedule.

I'm sure if there's a better scheduling of events, singles players are willing to do doubles. As long as it doesn't hurt their careers.

And to that note, I suppose it doesn't sound too promising to the doubles specialists out there. But... in this world, money rules. Unfortunately.

:(
 

TENNIS2

Rookie
Well, losers can't be choosers. I have some issues with the double players filing the lawsuit in the first place. They know they are not bringing in the business, even though they have made concessions in the past but further cocessions with the new rule change is better than not being able to play at all.
 

ejdtennis

New User
I'd love to have the top players play more doubles as they did back in the 70s/early 80s. However, I too don't think it will happen unless they are "forced" somehow...or a significant chunk of singles prize money is shifted to doubles. Would be interesting to compare singles/doubles percentages of total prize $$ between now and 30 yrs ago...

If the ATP's proposed new rules fail to attract top players to doubles and other ATP tournaments do eventually eliminate doubles, there is the issue of how to "fill the time" towards the end of the tournament so that ticket buyers have something else to watch - especially if a singles match is a blowout.

What do you think about combining some ATP "seniors" (Delta Tour) events with Masters Series events? Heck, the seniors could even play DOUBLES! I for one would rather see McEnroe/Ivanisevic vs. Stich/Becker than a typical ATP doubles semifinal these days (call me nostalgic). Also many players (including Agassi) are approaching eligibility for the Senior tour...

Another possibility might be more combined mens/womens events... since the WTA isn't changing doubles rules for now, you'd even have some "traditional" doubles in that case...
 

Mikael

Professional
Personally I don't enjoy watching doubles... And everytime I go to a Grand Slam on the first Wednesday or Thursday when the outside courts are shared between singles and doubles matches everybody seems to try and watch the singles. On Friday and Saturday the situation gets worse as there are much less singles and much more doubles. You get huge crowds around the singles and empty seats for the doubles.

However I wish other people liked watching doubles more than me. I think it's important that doubles survive as a sport.. many players depend on it.
 

Camilio Pascual

Hall of Fame
federerhoogenbandfan said:
That was an admirable move of respect and civility by the ATP. Even though they are battling it out with some players, doubles specialists, who do not agree with their policies, they did not take the opportunity to further punish them out of bitterness and spite by allowing Madrid to abort a doubles tournaments.

You could be right, but I suspect the true reason is because the ATP has been advised by their lawyers to enforce their own rules about requiring tournaments to hold doubles tourneys and distribute the prize monies. This way, if the doubles tournament is not held despite the best good faith efforts of the ATP, liability will fall more squarely on the tournament itself.
 

Dilettante

Hall of Fame
The ATP, by his nature, HAS to defend the doubles players because is a players association. Differences between ATP policies and the players are another matter. When facing a private tournament organization, ATP and players become the same thing and form together one of the factions, while Madrid tournament is the another faction.

I don't see any special merits in the ATP attitude. It's just a fight for power between ATP and Madrid. If Madrid wins, every tournament will know that they can rule over the ATP decissions. Forget respect and civility: ATP is risking a lot in this.

I wonder why the ITF, as a insitution, has not a stronger role in all this that is happening.
 

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
In tournaments in Beijing and Bucharest last month doubles sets were played to six with a tiebreak at 5-5 and no advantage games; this week in Metz and Tokyo sets are to five with a tiebreak at 4-4, also with no advantage games.
A third variation will feature no third sets, but a match tiebreak played to 10 points.

On Wednesday, French pair Fabrice Santoro and Michael Llodra, the top seeds at the Open de Moselle in Metz, beat compatriots Paul-Henri Mathieu and Gael Monfils by the novel scoreline of 3-5 5-4 5-4.
Santoro, one of the world's leading doubles players, said he was uncomfortable with the new scoring system.

"It's a bit early to come up with conclusions about it but I don't think I am for it right now," the 32-year-old former Australian Open doubles champion told reporters on Wednesday.
"To me, the set to five and the "no-ad" are too much of a change. I want to say that it's the no ad point that bothers me the most."

POSITIVE FEEDBACK

Under the new rules, when a game reaches deuce a sudden-death point is played with the receiving team electing who will return serve.
The ATP hopes to decide on the best scoring system by the time of the Masters Cup in Shanghai next month.

It says there has been some positive feedback so far, from players, tournament organisers and spectators.
"When you make changes you are never going to get 100 percent support," the ATP's communications director Nicola Arzani told Reuters on Thursday.
"Some of the traditionalists don't like it, but others think it's more exciting. The shorter format means more doubles matches are scheduled for show courts and that's positive."

World number two Rafael Nadal has welcomed the changes, and other players believe they add excitement.
"I tried it in Bucharest two weeks ago," Mathieu said this week in Metz. "It's a little weird because it is new but I like it and I think it's more fun and attractive to the public.
"I definitely think more singles players will be willing to play more doubles."

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,14604,-5327031,00.html
 

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
Madrid Reinstates Doubles

The Tennis Masters Series-Madrid won't be strictly a singles scene this month. Tournament organizers announced today they will host a doubles event at the tournament, which begins on October 17th. The announcement apparently ends a standoff between the ATP and Madrid officials over the tournament's decision to suspend doubles play in an announcement on Wednesday.

Madrid tournament organizers told Tennis Week the ATP's confirmation that it will renew discussions with lawyers representing the 45 doubles players who have filed an anti-trust lawsuit against the ATP prompted the decision to reinstate doubles at the event.

"The ATP has confirmed that discussions with the representatives of the 45 players that filed an anti trust lawsuit will take place in the coming days in an aim to resolve the conflict," Gerard Tsobanian, General Manager of the Masters Series Madrid, told Tennis Week in a statement. "We fully support the ATP on the reforms that have been approved to better showcase the doubles game. We have received confirmation from the ATP that discussions to solve the conflict away from the tribunals will take place shortly. In view of this information we have decided to restore the doubles competition this year in Madrid. However, we do not believe that it is acceptable that a small group of doubles players should attempt to influence by use of legal action the decision of the ATP Board as the governing body of men’s professional tennis. The ATP board has a duty to make decisions in the best interests of the sport which includes both tournaments and players. We expect the doubles reforms passed by the ATP Board at the U.S. Open to be implemented."

http://www.sportsmediainc.com/tennisweek/index.cfm?func=showarticle&newsid=14030&bannerregion=
 
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