Most powerful square beam player's stick?
- Thread starter steve260z
- Start date
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Trying to help, but find this post confusing.
What do you mean by square beam?
And you cant tame the tour 300 but want something more powerful than the 200??
And I thought players sticks were by definition low powered.
WhereIsMacMac
Professional
You can always customize Dunlop 200s and Prestiges. Or go a few lbs higher on your next string job.
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
Prince's Precision Response line is pretty powerful too.
Smasher08
Legend
To the OP: what on earth do you mean by "powerful"?
The velocity of the shots you make depend on your technique. But at its most basic, f=ma.
So if you want to produce more forceful shots, accelerate your frame more, add some weight, or both. And if you can't accelerate your frame more, lower your string tension.
But if you're struggling to place/control your shots and think it's the frame's fault (in all honesty it likely isn't) then get a more control-oriented stick and start finding your ideal tension by beginning with the bottom of the recommended range and going looser as required.
The Dunlop 200 series are usually great rackets, the 4d 200 Tour being one of the most praised around. So if you want more power, go 2-3 lbs looser, and keep doing that until you discover what "too loose" is for you.
The velocity of the shots you make depend on your technique. But at its most basic, f=ma.
So if you want to produce more forceful shots, accelerate your frame more, add some weight, or both. And if you can't accelerate your frame more, lower your string tension.
But if you're struggling to place/control your shots and think it's the frame's fault (in all honesty it likely isn't) then get a more control-oriented stick and start finding your ideal tension by beginning with the bottom of the recommended range and going looser as required.
The Dunlop 200 series are usually great rackets, the 4d 200 Tour being one of the most praised around. So if you want more power, go 2-3 lbs looser, and keep doing that until you discover what "too loose" is for you.
ChicagoJack
Hall of Fame
^^ Couldn't have said it any better myself. My thoughts exactly.
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thejuice
Hall of Fame
Yep, I agree with these guys!!!
steve260z
Rookie
Geez, here goes.........
1. Yes, players sticks are low powered.
2. If you aren't capable of understanding the concept behind the question why do you respond?
3. My Lord, increasing tension does not increase power. That's for you Homer.
4. Wow, lowering string tension increase power and putting using lead tape makes a difference??? For example, look at my signature.
5. If you dont' understand what a square beam racquet is read no further...
6. All player racquets are lower powered, but some are more powered than others.
7. Smasher, what a suggestion!!! Swing faster. You are The Coach.
8. Some people reading this and responded get the concept. If you don't go back to pointing at your turds in the toilet.
1. Yes, players sticks are low powered.
2. If you aren't capable of understanding the concept behind the question why do you respond?
3. My Lord, increasing tension does not increase power. That's for you Homer.
4. Wow, lowering string tension increase power and putting using lead tape makes a difference??? For example, look at my signature.
5. If you dont' understand what a square beam racquet is read no further...
6. All player racquets are lower powered, but some are more powered than others.
7. Smasher, what a suggestion!!! Swing faster. You are The Coach.
8. Some people reading this and responded get the concept. If you don't go back to pointing at your turds in the toilet.
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ChicagoJack
Hall of Fame
I double that Geez,
Your line of questioning is generated from a frame of reference. I think that frame of reference could use some fine tuning. Racquets don't vary in power very much, and most of that variation comes in the form of swingweight and string tension. If you already knew that, then why are you asking? And why get yer knickers in a twist when somebody points this out?
Question : Are you under the assumption that frame construction shapes,. ie box beam, oval, dual taper, etc ... will add or subtract significantly to rebound ball velocity?
Question : How many MPHs do you think you might stand to gain (or subtract) by a careful selection of these aspects of frame design?
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steve260z
Rookie
C-Town, Thanks!! I know normal people are one here.....
MPH? Sorry, I don't carry around a speed gun while I play.
For example, I mentioned the Dunlop 300 Tour which I felt had too much power. Maybe I'm trying to slice the power grid too much...
Just looking for feedback on player's frame power levels.
Its really a simply question...........
How about this hypothetically:
Head Prestige has a medium power level, Dunlop 300 Tour has a bit too much power for me. Balls that are hit flat tend to sail long. Any suggestions on frames?
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ChicagoJack
Hall of Fame
Hi steve260z,
1. No worries, happy to help if I can. I've looked at the specs of the 300 Tour (sw 304, flex 64, 6pts HL), and I'm a longtime Prestige user. I'm just guessing here, but I'll bet the differences between the two are related to rebound angle. Just a few degrees of difference can translate into several feet higher over the net, and several feet of distance from baseline to baseline. Are the two racquets strung identically, same strings, same tension?
2. Perhaps you are thinking and questioning in terms of power/ball speed, and the issue might be something else that's causing you to hit long with one and not the other? Not many of us carry radar guns when we play so we have some not very accurate visual cues to estimate power, such as depth, height of the bounce on the back curtain etc...
3A. Btw ...Frame stiffness, beam shape, etc, really don't make any meaningful difference in terms of power. It's complete myth propagated by decades of marketing hyperbole. A flexible frame is just as powerful as a stiff frame when you hit anywhere near center. Frame stiffness does makes a slight contribution to racquet power, but it's extremely small, (1-3 MPH tops) and the benefit is achieved only for impacts very near the tip of the frame and way out at the edges of 3 and 9 O'clock.
3B. All things being equal, a flexible frame will never be more powerful than a stiff frame. This is because frame bending always represents "lost" impact energy. Speaking more precisely, energy is never lost, it's just converted into something else. Frame bending and vibration represents energy dissipation into heat and friction and other things not useful for making a ball go fast.
3C. However, when you hit anywhere near the center of the strings, a flexible frame is just as powerful as a stiff frame. That's because when you hit anywhere center, you know the feeling. It's sweet. Frame bending/vibration is minimal, the impact is efficient and not much of the kinetic impact energy is lost to the bending and vibration that occurs on mis-hits.
4. Smasher08 is 100% correct. Ball velocity is mostly a matter of racquet mass and swingspeed.
Jack
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thejuice
Hall of Fame
Steve, it sounds like you were getting frustrated with guys that really didn't understand what you were asking. I think ChicagoJack gave you some great info but I also think Smasher gave you a great response.
Curious, have you tried the M2.0? It's supposed to be a little more powerful than the F2.0 Tour to my knowledge. Looking at the spectrum of Dunlop racquets, I'd assume it should still be less powerful than the F3.0 Tour (which I didn't see you mentioned you tried). Maybe you would benefit from also trying the Prestige Pro or the Radical Pro (the new version).
Curious, have you tried the M2.0? It's supposed to be a little more powerful than the F2.0 Tour to my knowledge. Looking at the spectrum of Dunlop racquets, I'd assume it should still be less powerful than the F3.0 Tour (which I didn't see you mentioned you tried). Maybe you would benefit from also trying the Prestige Pro or the Radical Pro (the new version).
If you can find any of the old TF 320 and add a little lead tape to them, they were great. 97" head.
The TF 315 LTDs are not all that powerful stock but they have a quality feel. Add some lead tape to the head and counter balance the handle to build a powerful box beam frame.
Wilson PS 6.1 95 also has a good feel but not much power in stock form. Add lead tape.
The TF 315 LTDs are not all that powerful stock but they have a quality feel. Add some lead tape to the head and counter balance the handle to build a powerful box beam frame.
Wilson PS 6.1 95 also has a good feel but not much power in stock form. Add lead tape.
ChicagoJack
Hall of Fame
Yes. Exactamundo.
Chotobaka
Hall of Fame
()() HAT <10>
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
More powerful than the Dunlop 200, but less than the 300 Tour? Easy...the soon to be released Dunlop 250
. Seriously, I find it hard to believe that you couldn't take either of these and increase or decrease the power level with strings / tension and dial in your power requirement? Just saying. I would be very surprised to hear that the 300 Tour with Tour Bite with tension around 60 lbs would be too powerful. If not, TennisCJC had a couple of great recommendations.
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steve260z
Rookie
All good responses. With regard to my set ups....300Tour leaded up at 9 and 3 and under the handle. Static weight is 12.4 at 8pts head light. Pretty much the same with my prestige MP. Maybe more like 12.7. Bio 200s run mid 12s at 9pts Head light. (As a side note the production variances on those are very high...) Strings are all 17g Tour Bite in the 47/45 range. Except for the 300T which is at 50lbs
I have an F2 tour as well. Weighted up in the same range. Now, the power there is pretty close to my max power without hitting flat balls long as opposed to the 300Tour that causes flat balls hit less than perfect to go long. For example, if I'm in a defensive position with the 300T and don't get the frame squared up properly the ball sails but in an offensive position with time I can get the 300T to just smoke a flat ball. As opposed to the Bio 200 or Prestige MP the defensive flat ball going long just doesn't rear its ugly head.
With regard to the F2 Tour and other oval shaped frames, the ball feel is muted and vague to me. Every shot feels pretty much the same. I've played with the APD and PD and get that same bland repetitive muted feel. That's why I've framed this question around the square beam.
I may need to try dropping the string tension in the Bio 200 to around 40 and see what happens. I also just bought the 6.1 18 x20 and will be trying that this week. Wow..Put my usual leather grip on that it tips the scale at 12.9 with no lead but 10pts head light. Feels like I can swing it a bit faster than than my beloved Bio200. (HA!! Yes, when is the Bio 250 coming out?)
TF? Maybe I'll grab a used one off the boards...
I have an F2 tour as well. Weighted up in the same range. Now, the power there is pretty close to my max power without hitting flat balls long as opposed to the 300Tour that causes flat balls hit less than perfect to go long. For example, if I'm in a defensive position with the 300T and don't get the frame squared up properly the ball sails but in an offensive position with time I can get the 300T to just smoke a flat ball. As opposed to the Bio 200 or Prestige MP the defensive flat ball going long just doesn't rear its ugly head.
With regard to the F2 Tour and other oval shaped frames, the ball feel is muted and vague to me. Every shot feels pretty much the same. I've played with the APD and PD and get that same bland repetitive muted feel. That's why I've framed this question around the square beam.
I may need to try dropping the string tension in the Bio 200 to around 40 and see what happens. I also just bought the 6.1 18 x20 and will be trying that this week. Wow..Put my usual leather grip on that it tips the scale at 12.9 with no lead but 10pts head light. Feels like I can swing it a bit faster than than my beloved Bio200. (HA!! Yes, when is the Bio 250 coming out?)
TF? Maybe I'll grab a used one off the boards...
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steve260z
Rookie
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jonestim
Hall of Fame
Rebel 95 has been renamed Tour 95 and will be out soon.
