Nadal and Djokovic would not have survived the 80's and 90's - Becker

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tennisaddict, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Agassi had an uncanny ability to get clean swipes at the ball and take the ball earlier which required less running around like Nole and Nadal. Agassi was probably the cleanest hitter in history and possibly the best return of serve ever.

    In that respect Andre was much more of an attacker then other two which could help him see success on all surfaces. I doubt either would see the same success Andre did because of that.

    Nadal would probably rack up French Open titles (though to the same degree? Who knows.. Hes more of a product of the poly era so he couldn't generate the same rpms on the spin without the poly).. Nole would win some AO titles but doubtful he would ever a wimbledon or USO under the old conditions).


    They both could win some slams on their best surfaces, but to have the same success in the 90s as they do now? No way. They are slow court players.. Fast surfaces a different animal. Especially for those who require the conditions so they can thrive on their defensive abilities
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  2. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    How so? They both are great players. Putting them in the 90s/80s, Nadal most success will be clay, Nole will be on hard court. On a slick grass, I'm not so sure who would do better.
     
  3. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    Nadal is a moonballer. Djokovic is a counterpuncher. BIg difference.
     
  4. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    No doubt Becker believes what he is saying, but....it is just impossible to know.

    Had Nadal been born 15 years earlier, how many GS would he have won? 5? 10? 3? 6? It is just impossible to know.

    And exactly the same with any other player. How many GS would Federer have won had he been born 10 or 20 years earlier? 5? 20? 3? 10?

    It is just impossible to know.

    All these across-different-eras hypotheticals are totally senseless.

    It is more, even inside a period of time where conditions (courts and balls and racquets and strings) stayed more or less the same (for example, from 1983 to 1995 ), it doesn't make sense to say that Sampras was "greater" than Lendl, or Agassi was "greater" than McEnroe, because 10 years apart is TOO MUCH (they really developed in different "eras", played mostly against different fields of players, even if they overlap a bit).

    Let alone trying to compare players from that era with players like Laver, Rosewall, Newcombe....from the wood era, or with players from the current homogenization-slow-polystring era.

    It is like trying to compare Viktor Barna, Richard Bergmann,.....,Guo Yue Hua,Zhuang Zedong, Kong Ling Hui, Chuang Tse-Tung, Wang Liqin, Jan Ove Waldner, Liu Gouliang,...

    It is just impossible.
     
  5. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Becker was a big server himself. So, he's preaching for his church, makes sense. He's just forgetting that his era saw the best returner of the game succeed, as gifted a returner as Djoko and Nadal: namely Agassi.
     
  6. Djokodal Fan

    Djokodal Fan Professional

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    Becker got owned by a Baseliner called Agassi


    Becker would have got owned big time by Nadal & Novak. Basliners always have the option to attack or retrieve when in trouble.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  7. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Becker had a bad head-to-head record against Agassi because he kept on trying to beat Agassi at his own game, and it never worked.
     
  8. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    exactly! and he never S@V half the time. Also in an interview i heard Becker say after retirement him and Agassi were having coffee somewhere and he asked Agassi how he knew where his serve was going all the time. And Agassi replied that Becker always had as tongue out whenever he went for the slider on the sides. :lol:
     
  9. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    It was in Agassi's bio.
     
  10. Candide

    Candide Professional

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    In the 1920s Richard Gasquet would have dominated like no other.
     
  11. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    There's no reason to be sad because that's how it should be. Every sports evolve. Actually it would be sad if sports regress.
     
  12. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

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    Nadal isn't in the same category as Djokovic and Agassi in terms of purely return.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  13. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Isn't it much more than that, I mean Borg and Conners were more baseliners and did well, I think it's more that the courts were much faster, so they would struggle, while someone like Fed would have won many more GS's than he has on the slower surfaces of today.
     
  14. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    That's not true, no boxing expert in their right mind would compare the fighters of today with those of the 70's, the top guy today wouldn't even be ranked in the top 20, boxing has devolved. Likewise the guys of the 70's would easily beat the guys of the 40's and 50's, short bald guys with big bellies, no movement, yet weighing around 180 pounds going up against a 220 pound, fast, monster.

    All sports evolve, devolve, so it's very hard to compare one era to another. Marciano for example was undefeated in his era, yet he wouldn't crack the top 10 in 1974.
     
  15. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    The redhead flash in the pan becker was never half the player of joker or rafa. This is hilarious coming from someone that is not even close to their accomplishments.
     
  16. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    Give me a break, hater. Becker won six slams and was a great player. His opinion may not have any merit given that it is all speculation anyway, but that doesn't change anything about his career.

    Just a quick number check for you: six is one more than five, and more than half of eleven. Not to mention he won his last slam more than ten years after his first.
     
  17. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Djokovic and Nadal and skill sets are not words that should be used in one sentence (if it's meant to be a complimentary one). Becker could have gone on to say Federer would be on 40+ Slams if he was born a decade earlier. That's how much ahead he is in shotmaking and tennis intelligence as opposed to any of his peers. The surfaces are an unfortunate corcumstance we cannot circumnavigate but since Becker raised the subject (of a hypothetical comparison) I think it would have been a reasonable haul for the Swiss genius.
     
  18. adil1972

    adil1972 Professional

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    becker wouldnt have survived today tennis


    HEHEHHEHHE
     
  19. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Just a quick number for you to check is comparing a player that is retired to others by the name of joker and nadal who are still playing and far from done winning majors.

    Rafa And joker would have kicked beckers *** all over the court.
     
  20. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    I would love to say you are a moder day Nostradamus, but your prediction is like saying the water will remain wet:

    however, you hit the nail in the head.

    a sample of the posts followwing yours in this thread!!

    (i would like to point the trend in the namesake\known fanbase association of the below quoted posters)

     
  21. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    If Agassi could be successful in three different eras, so could Nadal and Djokovic. Becker is off his rocker.
     
  22. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    You compared them. You also said that Becker was not even close to their accomplishments, which is clearly not true.

    I would think it depends on the conditions of the court they played on. It is speculation, either way. I'm sure that you, as a 3.5, knows better, of course.
     
  23. rdis10093

    rdis10093 Hall of Fame

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    would like to know what andre says
     
  24. dimeaxe

    dimeaxe Semi-Pro

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    In Serbia, we tend to say for someone and it sounds vulgar that "D!ck was his accountant", and that's Boris:twisted:
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  25. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    I totally agree with you NadalDramaQueen. One thing is certain. Boris Becker's opinion takes precedence over Tlm's opinion any day of the week, and that is according to Tlm's own rating sytem for credibility, which is who has won more grand slams.

    I better duck, there will probably be a tennis can coming at my head any moment! :)
     
  26. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    so Llodra and Stepanek would not be able to compete?
     
  27. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Becker said nothing about how he would do today.
     
  28. rev200g

    rev200g Rookie

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    Stepanek and Llodra both played serve and volley against Ferrer's all court game and both lost recently. Very exciting to watch I must say but both server & volleyers lost in straight sets if I recall correctly.
     
  29. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Whatever you and your dramaqueen want to dream about is okay. But when you wake up Rafa has won all 4 majors on every surface. Has won the gold medal at the olympics, and there is a very short list of players in the history of the game that have won more majors than him. But some how in your dream state 6 majors compares to 11. Plus again he is not yet done.

    Joker played one of if not the best single season performances of all time in 2011. Plus he is just now in his prime and will certainly surpass becker. And again joker or rafa would smack beckers *** right off the court.
     
  30. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    You should speak for yourself as far as ratings go which a 3.5 would probably be stretching it for you.

    Becker could not handle agassi and andre was not as good as joker or rafa.
     
  31. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    None of that changes the fact that Becker is a great player.

    On what surface would Nadal and Djoker smack Becker on? Not on a fast indoor hard court, that's for sure. Especially not Rafa.

    Seriously, tlm, spend some time on your own pathetic forehand before you hate on great tennis players.
     
  32. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    That is why s+v is dead in todays game it just will not work on a consistent basis.
     
  33. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I would already rate Djokovic above Becker. On grass Becker is obviously light years superior, but on all types of hard courts and clay Djokovic is already way ahead. Indoors is hard to compare as there arent many indoor events today, I am sure Becker at his peak was better ability wise on carpet, but Djokovic has a good chance to win as many or more YEC Championships and it is not his fault they arent regularly on indoor carpet like they used to be.

    The main thing though is Djokovic's best year of 2011 destroys Becker's best year of 1989, and on top of that Djokovic has already been more consistent and impressive across all surfaces over a longer span (6 years, 2007-2012) than Becker ever was for such a long stretch. Add to that Djokovic's back to back year end #1s vs Becker who never managed it.

    As for surface conditions, Becker and Djokovic are equally fortunate they play in the right era for their games. Becker would struggle even moreso in todays conditions than Djokovic might in 90s conditions.
     
  34. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Oh ya a fast indoor hard court. I never new they played majors on those. I never said that becker was not a good player, but he is just talking trash because both rafa and joker are better than him.

    Its funny I played in a 4.0 summer league and my record was 15-6. I am now playing in a usta 4.0 flex league and I am 6-0. And whoever I play does everything they can to keep the ball away from my forehand.

    But beings you talk such a big game lets see your great strokes. Or are you just one of the many who just sit behind your keyboard and talk trash about everybody else but don't even play or dare show your own game.
     
  35. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Perhaps Becker isn't talking about strokes or technique at all, rather that Djokovic and, to a greater extent, Nadal don't have an attack-minded tennis mindset and it would be to their detriment if they were in the 80s. Perhaps Becker thinks they would be too passive in their strategy and guys like himself, Edberg etc would just overwhelm them unless they changed their current strategy completely.

    Chang was really the first guy who had much higher-level success (from the 80s on) playing a basically retriever-minded game. Even then Chang was still quite attack minded whenever the opportunity came up - much moreso than even Nadal.
     
  36. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    I have no issue with you putting Djoker and Rafa ahead of Becker, I only find it unnecessary to trash Becker yourself for what you perceive to be his motive.

    I generally don't talk trash about other posters unless they are posting garbage. ;)

    One day, my friend, I may allow you to gaze upon my wondrous strokes. You must promise to behave, though.
     
  37. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Thats fair enough but lets see those wondrous strokes.
     
  38. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    Good things come to those who wait.

    See below. :cool:

     
  39. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    ??

    In what world is a guy who has won 8 slams including the career slam (Agassi) not as good as a guy who has won 5 slams so far? Agassi > Djokovic
     
  40. silencer1

    silencer1 New User

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    In a way that he did it all with 35 and Djokovic is 25.
     
  41. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Yes and no. Peak Agassi was not as dominant as Djokovic, more talented IMO, but couldnt translate it into as much dominance as Djokovic had in 2011, or even as Djokovic had to end two straight years at #1. Djokovic has also been much more consistently strong over a long span of times (6 years) than Agassi ever was at any point of his career. Alot of people forget over that 6 year stretch Djokovic was year end top 3 all 6, reached atleast 1 slam final in 5 of the 6, won Masters titles in 5 of the 6. As far back as 2008 he also had a great year, winning the Australian Open, Masters titles on both hard and clay, the YEC, and really was the #2 for that year more than Federer. Djokovic is also well on his way to most likely surpassing Agassi's career, and it isnt entirely fair to compare someone in the middle of their career to a retired player.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2012
  42. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Exactly right.
     
  43. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    I don't care about all of that. Right NOW you cannot say Djokovic with five slams is greater than Agassi with 8 and a career slam. Djokovic may very well go on to surpass Agassi but currently Agassi > Djokovic. In terms of talent I can't see how Djokovic is close to Agassi.
     
  44. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    Tlm, since you have such a wonderous tennis career in USTA leagues, why havent your, teams made it to the Nationals. I think I know the answer that question. You, yourself maybe somewhere between 4.0 to 4.5 level when at your best. You have played MOSTLY on teams where the skill level should be lower than 4.5 if players are rating themselves properly. In other words you are winning matches that you should definitely win for the most part. However you have teammates who may have rated themselves honestly and they do not win all of their matches as you do. I know for a fact I could beat you easily, not because I am so gifted but because you are definitely a much weaker player than I am. That does not mean you are not a good tennis player. Your forehand looks like it can be a weapon since you hit it deep and with a good amount of spin, a good combination
    I also believe I know more about stringing tennis rackets since I have been stringing for 30 years and have strung for several tennis legends. All thatbeing said, I am positive that you love to start arguments and you are very accomplished at it. I await your counterattack! :):):)
     
  45. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Well I started playing tennis at the age of 44, so if you are better than me that is not a very big deal. I never claimed to have a wondrous usta career, I was just showing my record to prove your buddy dramaqueen wrong.

    The league I play in the summer is a 4.5 league, but this league is a half level higher than what it should be ranked so I classify it at 4.0. Since I won the fall season I will have to move up to this leagues 5.0 which is the highest level it has, which again would be more like a 4.5 level.

    The usta flex winter league I am in is a weak 4.0 level and there is no 4.5 singles league. So your assessment of my level is pretty accurate, I did not know that this winter league was this weak and I will not be playing in it the next season.

    I will just use the rest of the indoor season to practice for next springs season. I will be playing strong 4.0 to 4.5 players in pick up matches and believe me I will lose against a lot of these guys. I am by no means afraid of losing, I play mostly against better players than me.

    As far as stringing goes It does not take 30 years to become a good stringer, not even close to that. I have been string for 11 years and after a few months I was a decent stringer and after a few years anyone can be come a very good stringer.

    I really don't care who you have strung for or how long you have been stringing. When you say that this stringing in the 30's is the way to go but yet very few pro players use that low of tension and most are in the mid 50's it does not make much sense.

    I know that the low tension poly craze is popular now and if players can have success with the low tension then great. It will definitely feel better and be easier on the arm. I have tried tensions from 34-72 lbs. with poly and many other strings and everything in between.

    And a lot of it depends on the player, the racket, and the strings. I use to use gut mains with poly crosses at 48+52 lbs. and with the low powered racket I was using at that time and with the swing I was using it worked fine. But that is not the norm.

    All the players I know agree that the higher the tension the better control there is and the lower the tension the more power. I always thought this was common knowledge. That does not mean that a player cannot use lower tension and have control, but on average there is better control at higher tensions.

    So I hope you like my counterattack.
     
  46. Huanita99

    Huanita99 Rookie

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    he can not be serious. Both Nole and Rafa would destroy the field.they would destroy Becker too. he wouldn't know what hit him. the game has evolved. Boris should know better. Nole would simply read his serve and drives him crazy, left/right etc until he is done with him. Nadal would make his run around like a rabbit till he drops dead. simple

    and to all Fed trolls, please control yourself, you are boring me to death.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  47. Huanita99

    Huanita99 Rookie

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    yes you can because Djoko had to deal with Rafa and Roger. Agassi had to deal with a S&V Sampras. Novak is a way better player than doped Agassi who admitted he used drugs and got away with it. I'd take away all of his lousy doped 8 slams.
     
  48. droliver

    droliver Semi-Pro

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    Other then the obvious that Fed is GOAT in any era, I don't agree with Becker at all. While Nadal & Nole may not be the favorite at Wimbledons of the 80-90's, they're no slouch on faster surfaces and are both among the best returners of the open era. If Wilander or Lendl can win the Aussie on grass and be competitive at Wimbledon, is it a stretch that these apex predators wouldn't be in the mix?

    They would dictate the style of play with their defense and transition skills much as they do now on hard courts and clay I think.
     
  49. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

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    you are forgetting the key ingredient that comprises Federer's game which others of the 90s era didn't have, and that is an Amazing footwork, anticipation, adaptation and ability to turn defence to offence. There is absolutely no parallel to that. This is visibly obvious in his match against a serve and volleying Sampras in 2001 where he was doing S&V and hitting outrageous winners from nowhere.
     
  50. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    It's impossible to say, really. Obviously, Djokovic and especially Nadal wouldn't have used the same technique, but if they still played in similar styles, I don't see why they couldn't succeed in the 80s or 90s. Borg dominated with a heavy-topspin game even back in the 70s. Wilander had fewer weapons than either, and he was very successful. Courier and Agassi both had success on all surfaces from behind the baseline. Nadal and Djokovic are both supremely talented, and they would find a way to win in whatever conditions.
     

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