Need critiquing and advise.

[thatguymattin]

Hey everyone, I'm getting back into tennis and this is a set I played earlier today. I ended up losing 4-6 in the video and 0-6 after I stopped recording. I'm the guy in black shirt and white shorts.

I never played competitively other than high school division 5, and am entirely self taught. I gained quite a bit of weight since I last played, and am struggling to keep up with my opponent. I would normally just rally whenever I would go hit, but figured I'd try playing more sets.

Usually my ground strokes are much better during rallies... but playing sets; it's difficult to hit to proper shot in the proper position because the ball is coming at me inconsistently, and I suppose that's tennis in it's essence.

I recognize my footwork is crud, and everything else really, but what could I do to improve my game overall? What should I prioritize?

The video is an entire set unedited so... those who are bored or genuinely curious/kind, please feel free to watch it.

Thanks.

 

[LeeD]

Nice easy power, big guys have it, and you do too.
Try to get set for your opponent's shot after you hit yours, instead of waiting, watching, and reacting.
Most little guys try to run you big guys, so move under balance and posture, don't reach or lunge.
Would be nice to see a little more power from your strokes, as you seem to be holding back and trying...too hard... not to overhit, so you end up almost pushing the ball.
On returns of serve, try to step IN to hit every single ROS you attempt.
Looks like you're just out of practice, and a couple months play will bring back your old game.

 

[thatguymattin]

I've been so focused on trying to keep the ball in during sets, that I've forgotten how to relax during my strokes. When I tried rallying after, I noticed that my grip was so tight, limiting my racquet head speed. So I'll try loosening it up the next time I play.

He does tend to outrun me, which is frustrating. There were a few points where I want to create more angle, but ended up hitting it straight to him. Would it be because I'm not properly set into position for the correct shot?

Another thing that frustrates me is how on floaty returns, I end up botching them because I'm reaching and don't have the correct timing.

I think I'll record a video of me just rallying to contrast the difference of my strokes in/out of a game.

 

[rchjr2091]

Where is this ? Looks beautiful.

 

[thatguymattin]

Where is this ? Looks beautiful.

Just a shoddy park in SoCal. It's not the greatest, but it's nicer than the parks around my house.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

In your first service game, your 1st serve % was 25% [and you still won the game!]. You might consider easing back on the drive component of your first and use more spin to up your %. Your serve is good enough that it's not easily attackable.

 

[Chas Tennis]

On the serve your foot lands behind the baseline, your body is moving backwards. On most high level serves the foot lands inside the court sometimes more than 2 feet into the court. See high speed videos.

I can see some internal shoulder rotation before impact by the shadows at your elbow. Your upper arm rotates around its long axis. But I can't tell how effective it is. The racket rotation slows after impact, is that impact an impact effect or are you directing the racket to slice the ball?

High level slice serve. Watch the speed of the elbow angles.

To do single frame on Vimeo
click Vimeo & go to full screen
Hold down the SHIFT KEY and use the ARROW KEYS.

For a high level serve technique the upper arm should be held at the proper angle to reduce the risk of impingement. See Ellenbecker video "Rotator Cuff Injury" for how to hold the upper arm. Upper arm position seen in most high level ATP serves.

 

[thatguymattin]

On the serve your foot lands behind the baseline, your body is moving backwards.

I can see some internal shoulder rotation before impact by the shadows at your elbow. Your upper arm rotates around its long axis. But I can't tell how effective it is. The racket rotation slows after impact, is that impact an impact effect or are you directing the racket to slice the ball?

High level slice serve

I think it's an impact effect, I'm not necessarily slicing hard, but I'm not hitting flat either. I don't think I'm forcibly guiding my racquet outwards unless I go for a topspin serve.

In your first service game, your 1st serve % was 25% [and you still won the game!]. You might consider easing back on the drive component of your first and use more spin to up your %. Your serve is good enough that it's not easily attackable.

I was thinking I should do that too, seldom are my flat serves effective, which is why I try to go for a topspin serve instead of flat on my first serves.

 

[thatguymattin]

Should I bring up my elbow and arm up earlier on my serves, so it could resemble the 'generic' trophy serve form?

 

[SpinToWin]

Point at around 2 minutes is pretty telling on what I would consider to be the greatest takeaway:

Lacking/wrong footwork. On the shorter ball you should have used aggressive footwork, pushing off your right foot forward onto your left rather than pivoting backwards as if you were on the baseline stretched wide. Thus you'd get momentum moving forward, adding some drive to your shot and getting you to the net on the next shot (rather than being stuck in no man's land). The next slice mistake again was you standing still and trying to hit the shot.

I don't have time to go through the whole thing, but from the first few minutes I'd say you should do some footwork drills (in this case, footwork relating to the stroke).

 

[SpinToWin]

Should I bring up my elbow and arm up earlier on my serves, so it could resemble the 'generic' trophy serve form?

Your serve motion is fine. Only thing you may try is throwing the ball further forward and following the serve into the court, you seem to be jumping out of the court. Ideally you want to serve so that you can land inside the court on your left leg in a manner so that you can remain standing balanced on your left leg.

 

[thatguymattin]

Also, I can't seem to translate my footwork, when rallying, into playing matches.

It's like I know what to expect and the ball also moves faster when rallying, but erratic and short during matches.

I have a hard time with short balls, and I'm not really sure what to do after. I don't want to attack the net, but if I don't (after returning a short ball) then I'm out of position in no man's land.

Ohhh I just noticed, I'm not low to the ground enough during matches either.

 

[SpinToWin]

Also, I can't seem to translate my footwork, when rallying, into playing matches.

It's like I know what to expect and the ball also moves faster when rallying, but erratic and short during matches.

I have a hard time with short balls, and I'm not really sure what to do after. I don't want to attack the net, but if I don't (after returning a short ball) then I'm out of position in no man's land.

Ohhh I just noticed, I'm not low to the ground enough during matches either.

Fundamentally, playing matches with serves is very different. You need to get used to that, rallying only gets you so far, it's the most common trap in rec tennis.

As an aside, it would really help you to up your fitness a bit I think. Moving in a match situation is more strenuous/stressful than during normal rallying, and a higher level of fitness makes it easier to move effectively.

 

[thatguymattin]

Fundamentally, playing matches with serves is very different. You need to get used to that, rallying only gets you so far, it's the most common trap in rec tennis.

As an aside, it would really help you to up your fitness a bit I think. Moving in a match situation is more strenuous/stressful than during normal rallying, and a higher level of fitness makes it easier to move effectively.

Yeah, I've been working on cutting the weight off.

Though I've noticed that playing sets, and playing the same person over and over, my stroke has been adapted to them. I haven't had any rallying sessions for a while, so I think I'll try getting my form back the next time I play.

I'm thinking of switching over to semi-western, rather than using an eastern grip; that way I have to force myself to stay low and rise with the ball?

 

[SpinToWin]

Yeah, I've been working on cutting the weight off.

Though I've noticed that playing sets, and playing the same person over and over, my stroke has been adapted to them. I haven't had any rallying sessions for a while, so I think I'll try getting my form back the next time I play.

I'm thinking of switching over to semi-western, rather than using an eastern grip; that way I have to force myself to stay low and rise with the ball?

I don't see why? I too play an eastern forehand, it's fine. Just focus on keeping the contact point in front.

As to cutting weight: The best things you can do is cut out processed foods as much as possible and avoid foods with added sugar. What also helped me was cutting out bread and pasta. Cardio makes your body more adept at burning fat for energy, so 3-4 cardio sessions a week will really help the process. Also, plan out what you are going to eat and when. That way you're less likely to binge eat at a certain point in time. For snacks I'd recommend fruits and veggies. Finally, drink water, and do so regularly.

 

[marian10]

Grip is not the problem.

You need cardio and tennis lessons. Getting advice from a forum works when the fundamentals are there. You lack some fundamental foundations that you will never get here. There are already good things like your serve and will to attack. But there's a lot of work to do and you need external help on court.

 

[Over50Champ]

Grip is not the problem.

You need cardio and tennis lessons. Getting advice from a forum works when the fundamentals are there. You lack some fundamental foundations that you will never get here. There are already good things like your serve and will to attack. But there's a lot of work to do and you need external help on court.

He needs to be athletic too, as Tennis requires lots of it,
to play well.

Watching him waddle around the court, I'm afraid he is
sorely lacking.

I'd suggest Golf, since you don't need to be athletic, or
even in shape, to play it.

If you're dead set on Tennis, then hit against a wall or
backboard. You'll get in shape and grove your strokes.
(but won't help your athleticism, since that's inherent)

 

[Deleted member 23235]

only watched a couple games... pretty good for being self taught.
personally i'd prioritize (to beat this opponent):
#1 conditioning... your footwork seems decent, ie. pretty good at lots of little steps, getting spacing, etc... just a bit slow, and maybe you're even trying to conserve energy a bit knowing you're not in great shape. better conditioning will lead to much more aggressive footwork (without fear of getting tired), which will lead to better position to execute your fh. it will also allow you to get more out of each training session
#2 short court... your weapos (serve&fh) do damage, you come to net (good), but then you either flub and easy overhead/volley, or put back a sitter (you do finish a few good points, but it looked tentative)

my $.02

 

[NuBas]

Improve your athleticism, play even more, and on top of all focus.

 

[Chas Tennis]

On topic, the OP asked for some comments on his strokes in the video.

If he is interested in more fitness advice he can try the Health & Fitness forum.

 

[MajesticMoose]

I think once you work on your fitness you'll be in good shape. Keep playing more sets and/or more practice matches. You've got a pretty decent serve just make your 1st a little more consistent.

 

[Chas Tennis]

The serve at 18:20 is a flat serve that goes out. Your technique looks good in many regards but the racket path and ISR timing look off. The slow video, 60 fps?, won't allow complete analysis but it could bear on why you hit long or in the net.

I don't want to download a 36 minute HD video. OP, can you edit that video and just post the serve at 18:20.

The reason for hitting long might be that you are developing too much racket head speed from the racket closing as it moves forward. In a high level serve, the racket closes as it moves forward but also rotates around the axis of the upper arm, internal shoulder rotation (ISR). These two separate rotations show up clearly in videos. The ISR motion produces speed and causes the racket face to point side-to-side, the racket closing motion causes racket head speed and the racket face to point high-low. Inaccuracies in the closing of the racket face for pace will cause high-low variations in the ball's trajectory, long or short in the net.

Notice that the racket face both closes as it moves forward and rotates so that its direction changes side to side (around the more vertical axis of the upper arm in the shoulder joint).

The racket head speed in a high level serve from each racket rotation, estimate -
1) from closing - 40-60%
2) from ISR rotation - 40-60%

I don't think that you use much of #2 at impact.

What is you history in sports, particularly in throwing?

 

[SinjinCooper]

The reason those flat serves are going absurdly long is that he's hitting with a grip that forces him to come up from directly under the ball with an open racquet face, despite otherwise decent throwing mechanics.

That'll work out when you meet the ball at the perfect spot in space, but when timing is a bit off, it'll launch the ball ridiculously long, or dump it stupidly short. It's using the racquet as a catapult.

It's happening because you're serving with a pretty much eastern forehand grip. That's why you see the wrist forced to that awkward angle in order to make square contact overhead. It should be a nice, neutral wrist when serving, and will be once you're using a continental grip. Ask if you need an explanation on what that is.

Get around into a continental grip, and extend that ring finger up the grip a bit like a trigger finger. Those two things in combination with the same swing will force the racquet to come up edge-on more, and will have the natural rotation of the arm bring the racquet around more to contact the ball, rather than up.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Your toss at 52 sec may be too far back, was that a kick serve? High level serve - There is variety in tosses but most are into the court and the ball is in front of the server's face most often until just before impact. Use these to get the idea but view more ATP serves to see the variety.

Toss forward into the court ball, head moves forward, often the arm and trunk are tilted forward at impact.

A second issue is the racket path vs the hand path. You hand path looks too directly at the ball, a natural mistake. This requires some videos with cameras carefully aligned to see hand path angles.

Likely slice serve. Shows hand path, racket path and ball's trajectory. Camera looking mostly along the hand path. Note the angle between the forearm and racket at impact and compare. Note timing of ISR and compare. Note forearm ISR can be seen by looking at the elbow area and watching the elbow shadows rotate to the left. Toly processed video.

Note the overall racket path, the face rotation, hand path. Compare to yours.

For a high level serve the upper arm should be controlled to not be at too high an angle to the shoulder or the risk of impingement increases. See Ellenbecker video, Rotator Cuff Injury, at Tennis Resources. Jim McLennan also has a brief video without nearly as much detail. See also high speed videos & pictures like the one above for upper arm angle at shoulder. The angle is can be complicated.....

 

[thatguymattin]

The reason those flat serves are going absurdly long is that he's hitting with a grip that forces him to come up from directly under the ball with an open racquet face, despite otherwise decent throwing mechanics.

That'll work out when you meet the ball at the perfect spot in space, but when timing is a bit off, it'll launch the ball ridiculously long, or dump it stupidly short. It's using the racquet as a catapult.

It's happening because you're serving with a pretty much eastern forehand grip. That's why you see the wrist forced to that awkward angle in order to make square contact overhead. It should be a nice, neutral wrist when serving, and will be once you're using a continental grip. Ask if you need an explanation on what that is.

Get around into a continental grip, and extend that ring finger up the grip a bit like a trigger finger. Those two things in combination with the same swing will force the racquet to come up edge-on more, and will have the natural rotation of the arm bring the racquet around more to contact the ball, rather than up.

I just adjusted my grip slightly for flat serves. I thought I was using a continental grip before, but my hand was cocked slightly - just slightly towards an eastern grip, and it's been pretty good.

Though one issue I'm having again is my left knee. It started hurting again because of serving and my overweightness, so I adjusted to a "standier" stance with less knee bend, aiming for something like Wawrinka's stance.

So now I have to adjust again.

 

[samarai]

u have pretty good strokes, a nice serve, and good height. number one thing i would work on is conditioning. I think once u have good moevemnet alot of the shots will fall into place.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Hey everyone, I'm getting back into tennis and this is a set I played earlier today.

I gained quite a bit of weight since I last played, and am struggling to keep up with my opponent. I would normally just rally whenever I would go hit, but figured I'd try playing more sets.

Usually my ground strokes are much better during rallies... but playing sets; it's difficult to hit to proper shot in the proper position because the ball is coming at me inconsistently, and I suppose that's tennis in it's essence.

I recognize my footwork is crud, and everything else really, but what could I do to improve my game overall? What should I prioritize?

Beautiful area. So jealous when I see green and trees. Anyway...

If you are just getting back you naturally have rust so that will scrub off quick and that is probably the first priority...playing. From your comments you know the second part of improving fitness and footwork to apply your strokes.

Really, I wouldn't mess with much in the way of mechanics or such until you get your feet back under you. Then you can differentiate technique issues and just bad positioning and timing.

Good stuff! Thanks for posting.