NTRP to UTR conversion formula on TLS

[TennisOTM]

I recently noticed that the TLS estimated ratings site includes an estimate of your UTR based on their estimate of your NTRP (both to the hundredth). I looked through the other threads that discuss NTRP / UTR conversions and didn't find this TLS conversion formula mentioned.

I figured out the formula they are using for men. Basically they assume a linear conversion where every 0.5 range of NTRP is a 1.5 range of UTR, with one of the anchor points being 3.50 NTRP converting to 5.25 UTR. So the boundaries of the most active NTRP levels convert like this:

2.50 NTRP -> 2.25 UTR
3.00 NTRP -> 3.75 UTR
3.50 NTRP -> 5.25 UTR
4.00 NTRP -> 6.75 UTR
4.50 NTRP -> 8.25 UTR

Seems pretty reasonable from my own experience. I independently created goals for myself this year to have a 50/50 W/L record in 4.0 men's play and to achieve 6.00 UTR, which seemed to be consistent with each other as I neared both goals simultaneously. And according to this conversion they are pretty much exactly consistent: an exactly average 4.0 player (3.75) would be exactly at UTR 6.00.

What do you think - does it work well for you? Note if you have both singles and doubles UTR's that are different, you'll have to average them (weighted by how much you play each) to test it, since TLS and NTRP combine them.

 

[gsung]

Seems reasonable to me too. I am USTA 4.5 with a UTR of 7.5, I'd consider myself a middle-of-the-road 4.5.

 

[Max G.]

Seems reasonable to me too. I am USTA 4.5 with a UTR of 7.5, I'd consider myself a middle-of-the-road 4.5.

Same for me

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Link below is directly from the UTR website, you can see that they estimate that NTRP high 4.0 and low 4.5 begin to overlap at UTR 6.0. So you are not that far off.

https://support.universaltennis.com...-universal-tennis-adult-leagues-united-states

 

[J_R_B]

That's reasonable to me. I have seen 4.0s in the 7's, but generally those are people who are about to be or at least reasonably could or should be bumped. Similarly, the top 4.5s are in the 9's, but they are the ones prone to getting bumped.

 

[travlerajm]

I recently noticed that the TLS estimated ratings site includes an estimate of your UTR based on their estimate of your NTRP (both to the hundredth). I looked through the other threads that discuss NTRP / UTR conversions and didn't find this TLS conversion formula mentioned.

I figured out the formula they are using for men. Basically they assume a linear conversion where every 0.5 range of NTRP is a 1.5 range of UTR, with one of the anchor points being 3.50 NTRP converting to 5.25 UTR. So the boundaries of the most active NTRP levels convert like this:

2.50 NTRP -> 2.25 UTR
3.00 NTRP -> 3.75 UTR
3.50 NTRP -> 5.25 UTR
4.00 NTRP -> 6.75 UTR
4.50 NTRP -> 8.25 UTR

Seems pretty reasonable from my own experience. I independently created goals for myself this year to have a 50/50 W/L record in 4.0 men's play and to achieve 6.00 UTR, which seemed to be consistent with each other as I neared both goals simultaneously. And according to this conversion they are pretty much exactly consistent: an exactly average 4.0 player (3.75) would be exactly at UTR 6.00.

What do you think - does it work well for you? Note if you have both singles and doubles UTR's that are different, you'll have to average them (weighted by how much you play each) to test it, since TLS and NTRP combine them.

The scale seems consistent with what I’ve seen in general. But in my specific case it doesn’t convert right, and there is a large discrepancy between my TLS and my UTR conversion in the chart, but as I mentioned in another thread it seems pretty obvious that it’s due to a bug in the UTR formula omitting an adjustment for partner level that only becomes noticeable when partners of huge rating difference are playing together (I’ve only been playing 8.0 mixed this year as a high 4.5 partnering 3.5 gals).

 

[TennisOTM]

That's reasonable to me. I have seen 4.0s in the 7's, but generally those are people who are about to be or at least reasonably could or should be bumped. Similarly, the top 4.5s are in the 9's, but they are the ones prone to getting bumped.

Yeah if the conversion is accurate then someone with a UTR in the low 7's should be above the 4.0/4.5 border but pretty close to it. Someone in the low 9's, though, should be an above-average 5.0 player.

Also interesting if you extend up to the rarely used, very high NTRP categories, a 7.0 player would be in the UTR range 14.25 - 15.75, which includes most of the top few hundred men in the world. Because UTR goes up to 16.5, there'd be a few elite players who would get bumped to a mythical NTRP 7.5, which right now would include only 8 people. So "7.5 league" would basically be the ATP Finals.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Yeah if the conversion is accurate then someone with a UTR in the low 7's should be above the 4.0/4.5 border but pretty close to it. Someone in the low 9's, though, should be an above-average 5.0 player.

Also interesting if you extend up to the rarely used, very high NTRP categories, a 7.0 player would be in the UTR range 14.25 - 15.75, which includes most of the top few hundred men in the world. Because UTR goes up to 16.5, there'd be a few elite players who would get bumped to a mythical NTRP 7.5, which right now would include only 8 people. So "7.5 league" would basically be the ATP Finals.

Would love to partner up with Medvedev in 12.0 combo. We would destroy the competition and definitely win states.

 

[J_R_B]

Yeah if the conversion is accurate then someone with a UTR in the low 7's should be above the 4.0/4.5 border but pretty close to it. Someone in the low 9's, though, should be an above-average 5.0 player.

Since by the time you get to 4.5 and higher, there are fewer players, the tail of the distribution is a little fatter and the range of values bigger, so while it would be completely out of place for someone >7.5 in a 4.0 league, someone around 9 or a smidge over isn't quite as much of a shock in 4.5.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Conversion looks okay, but their guestimate is low for me. My singles UTR is 5.7 and they estimate just 4.93. Dubs UTR is 5.3 at the moment. Even combined that is low.

 

[travlerajm]

Conversion looks okay, but their guestimate is low for me. My singles UTR is 5.7 and they estimate just 4.93. Dubs UTR is 5.3 at the moment. Even combined that is low.

In the email reply I received from UTR, they said they add a non-participation penalty into the rating. So if you haven't played for a couple of weeks, your rating might have dropped a bit.