Reasons Why Nadal Dominated Federer During Their Prime?

[tennis_pro]

Nadal doesn't have the peak vs non peak advantage anymore. Plus less than 99.9% of their matches arent on clay now. Fed's backhand also improved but everything else declined. If you switched their ages and put Fed in his mid 20s vs Nadal in his 30s it wouldve been a massacre.

 

[tennis_pro]

Nadal is the better tennis player.

Clearly given he's 1-6 against Fed aged 34-38 despite being 5 years younger. And of course that only win had to be at the FO lmao

 

[SonnyT]

Throughout his career, if Federer hits a gorgeous should-be winner (off serve, groundstroke or volley), and the ball comes back with interest, he becomes a little deflated and discouraged, even visibly (I might add). Nadal was the master at that earlier in his career, when he still had the speed and flexibility.

Later in his career, Nadal gains more muscle and power, but loses speed and flexibility. Federer can counter that easily, because he doesn't fear power in his opponents, he fears speed.

 

[ericarnett88]

..

 

[Hitman]

Federer v Nadal rivalry broken down into three key parts...

Miami 2004 - TMC 2007 H2H 8-6 in Nadal's favor
Hamburg 2008 - AO 2009 H2H 5-0 in Nadal's favor
Madrid 2009 - W 2019 H2H 11-10 in Nadal's favor

The key period that sticks out is the 5-0 sequence Nadal has from Hamburg 2008 to AO 2009, this is place where Nadal comes out on top. He won this key period hands down.

If you look outside this key period, the Fedal rivalry is actually very close indeed in terms of matches won and lost by both.

 

[King No1e]

Federer is better than Nadal
No - Nadal is better
Nope, Fed is better
No way - Nadal is better
Whatever, Fed all the way
What?? Nadal is better
Gimme a break, Fed is better
No - Nadal is better
Nope, Fed is better
No way - Nadal is better
Whatever, Fed all the way
What?? Nadal is better
Gimme a break, Fed is better
No - Nadal is better
Nope, Fed is better
No way - Nadal is better
Whatever, Fed all the way
What?? Nadal is better
Gimme a break, Fed is better
No - Nadal is better
Nope, Fed is better
No way - Nadal is better
Whatever, Fed all the way
What?? Nadal is better
Gimme a break, Fed is better
No - Nadal is better
Nope, Fed is better
No way - Nadal is better
Whatever, Fed all the way
What?? Nadal is better
Gimme a break, Fed is better
No - Nadal is better
Nope, Fed is better
No way - Nadal is better
Whatever, Fed all the way
What?? Nadal is better
Gimme a break, Fed is better
No - Nadal is better
Nope, Fed is better
No way - Nadal is better
Whatever, Fed all the way
What?? Nadal is better
Gimme a break, Fed is better
No - Nadal is better
Nope, Fed is better
No way - Nadal is better
Whatever, Fed all the way
What?? Nadal is better
Gimme a break, Fed is better
No - Nadal is better
Nope, Fed is better
No way - Nadal is better
Whatever, Fed all the way
What?? Nadal is better
Gimme a break, Fed is better

djkr goat

 

[Federev]

djkr goat

DON’T SAY “GOAT”!!

We get reported for that now!

 

[1stVolley]

I was just watching the replay of the Federer-Nadal 2007 Wimbledon match and Nadal's attack of Federer's backhand was his principal strategy. He just kept pounding Federer's forehand in both rallies and serves. Eventually, Federer would miss even though sometimes he hit a clean winner off that wing. He won a lot of points that way. Of course, Federer played that match without his 97 sq. in autograph racquet, giving him less margin for error in driving the ball.

The problem is that there is no way Federer's 1HBH drive is as reliable as Nadal's lefty forehand crosscourt shot to that wing. Possibly if Federer had more of Wawrinka's 1HBH down the line rocket he could have evened up that BH-FH duel but it would have to be a great rocket to stop Nadal from countering with a blistering FH crosscourt to an open court.

 

[King No1e]

DON’T SAY “GOAT”!!

We get reported for that now!

sorry, i meant Tiger @Lleytonstation

 

[vex]

I’d say it’s because Nadal is Federer’s equal in terms of overall tennis skill - albeit with his game translating better to clay than hard court like Fed’s. So you put someone against Fed who he doesn’t hold a massive skill gap over and then you get into the matchup problem. Rafa’s strength plays right into Roger’s weakness. That makes it pretty much a wrap right there. That dynamic simply doesn’t exist in the other matchups: Fed-Djoker, Rafa-Djoker.

 

[tennis24x7]

By 2017, Federer's personal jinx had long been transferred from Nadal to Djokovic.

The best!!

 

[Deleted member 771911]

When people are this good and match up so well, it comes down to mental strength and dynamics.
Nadal did have that huge strategic advantage of exploiting Federer's backhand side. But on grass and hard, Federer should have found a way around it, and he had a strategy open to him, to be more aggressive (I am simplifying but my technical knowledge is weak and it is late!), but he often backed off and left himself very vulnerable.
These guys, playing each other in finals, at that level, they get in each other's heads. Nadal got into Federer's head first and stayed there for a while. Federer often just played into his eyes and he, Nadal, literally reduced Federer to tears.

 

[Lleytonstation]

sorry, i meant Tiger @Lleytonstation

Very important you say TIGER. No need for farm animals in tennis.

 

[mike danny]

I’d say it’s because Nadal is Federer’s equal in terms of overall tennis skill - albeit with his game translating better to clay than hard court like Fed’s. So you put someone against Fed who he doesn’t hold a massive skill gap over and then you get into the matchup problem. Rafa’s strength plays right into Roger’s weakness. That makes it pretty much a wrap right there. That dynamic simply doesn’t exist in the other matchups: Fed-Djoker, Rafa-Djoker.

Could we really call it just Roger's weakness? Rafa is the bane of all one handers.

Never have I seen another player completely make a tennis shot extinct.

 

[King No1e]

Could we really call it just Roger's weakness? Rafa is the bane of all one handers.

Never have I seen another player completely make a tennis shot extinct.

There are exceptions, though. Thiem handles Nadal's spin like a boss with his backhand.

 

[MichaelNadal]

He could send shots back that would be winners from Fed against anyone else on tour, into uncomfortable positions for Rog. Made him work harder than anyone and never took a point off.

 

[SonnyT]

Yes, but how did Federer manage a complete U-turn in the rivalry (6-1 since '15, including 2 crucial GS matches)? Any explanation will have to account for that!

Nadal has not declined relative to the field; but has obviously done so relative to Federer, and Djokovic (whom he hasn't defeated off clay since '13). That is so curious, I don't know if that has ever happened before in tennis, to such an extent.

Relative to the other Big 3 members, clay is the last refuge of the clay master! HAHAHA!

 

[RaulRamirez]

Needless to say, Fed was/is supremely gifted and talented, and so is Rafa. I'd say equally so. A lot of sports is mental, and a lot of sports is tactical. As the player with the bigger serve and more of a quick-strike approach, Roger should have been able to dictate his style of play at least as much as Rafa did. Did he?

Kudos to Roger for turning the tables on (primarily) hard court in more recent years but prior to this, Rafa was just a little better more often when they met. Why does this have to be excused?

 

[mike danny]

There are exceptions, though. Thiem handles Nadal's spin like a boss with his backhand.

Thiem does that at the same time Fed does that since 2017.

Also, Thiem didn't play 2008-2013 Nadal.

 

[vex]

Could we really call it just Roger's weakness? Rafa is the bane of all one handers.

Never have I seen another player completely make a tennis shot extinct.

No ur completely right

 

[The Safinator]

So I am a Federer and Nadal fan, originally just a Federer fan but then I learnt to appreciate what Nadal has done over time.

So this is a comparison from when they were in their best years. I think around 2010 onwards, Federer's greatest form had gone for good, and Nadal was beating him all during 2011-2015 easily but that was after Federer had lost his greatest form. Similarly now in 2017, Nadal over 30, he has lost half a step of one of his greatest assets - his speed. So this is a comparison when they were both in their prime.

It was quite amazing when Nadal emerged, Federer was dominating everyone, yet somehow from the very start Nadal was winning against Federer. Most interesting was Nadal was able to compete and beat Federer on Federer's best surface.

Consider Wimbledon 2007 and 2008. 2007 was probably Federer's greatest ever form in his best years, and Nadal was able to play to 5 sets in 2007, and beat him in 2008. This is the greatest grass court player of all time in his greatest years we are talking about which Nadal managed to beat.

2008 Wimbledon Federer was playing amazing, I was watching the whole tournament. He hadn't lost a set till the final and I don't think any player in the history of tennis could have beat 2008 Federer at Wimbledon. No Sampras, Borg or Prime Djokovic because he was playing that good. This is the reason why most experts in the world of tennis consider Wimbledon 2008 as the greatest final of all time, because of the level of tennis being played by both players - and the game still amazes me to this day from both players.

So what were the reasons that Nadal was so comfortable during their best years?

I think Federer's game matched up well for Nadal, Federer hits with amazing amounts of spin (just a bit below Nadal's spin rates), which is why he dominated the field except Nadal. But the combination of Nadal's amazing speed, and his extreme low to high racquet action meant he was always in the rally even when Federer would go for his classic winners - which Nadal could get back into play.

The Nadal forehand to Federer backhand was a factor of course. Federer did not have a weak backhand, he won many grand slams because of his backhand, neat, powerful and deadly accurate. Nadal would target around 70% of his shots to Federer's backhand and it gave him good success.

Nadal's passing shots were crucial as well. I have never seen a player in history hit passing shots like Nadal did in his prime. Federer for some reason approach the net against Nadal at the worst times and would always get passed during those years. It was painful to watch at times as a Federer fan. We have to remember Federer is probably the greatest at serve and volley in this current generation.

What do you think?

Nadal has only been dominant on clay. Take away the clay, what is Nadal's record against Fed? 10-14. Take away Fed's "best" surface...9-13. In no way, has Nadal dominated Federer, who is half a decade older, which is most players' career if they are lucky. At best, they are evenly matched, with Nadal having an edge on clay, and he had to be the best clay courter, ever to have that edge.

 

[mike danny]

Nadal has only been dominant on clay. Take away the clay, what is Nadal's record against Fed? 10-14. Take away Fed's "best" surface...9-13. In no way, has Nadal dominated Federer, who is half a decade older, which is most players' career if they are lucky. At best, they are evenly matched, with Nadal having an edge on clay, and he had to be the best clay courter, ever to have that edge.

It's actually very simple:

On clay Nadal completely dominates, while outside of it, they have a 50/50 rivalry more or less.

Right now, yes, Nadal's H2H record is mainly added by clay and nothing more.

 

[ewiewp]

So I am a Federer and Nadal fan, originally just a Federer fan but then I learnt to appreciate what Nadal has done over time.

So this is a comparison from when they were in their best years. I think around 2010 onwards, Federer's greatest form had gone for good, and Nadal was beating him all during 2011-2015 easily but that was after Federer had lost his greatest form. Similarly now in 2017, Nadal over 30, he has lost half a step of one of his greatest assets - his speed. So this is a comparison when they were both in their prime.

It was quite amazing when Nadal emerged, Federer was dominating everyone, yet somehow from the very start Nadal was winning against Federer. Most interesting was Nadal was able to compete and beat Federer on Federer's best surface.

Consider Wimbledon 2007 and 2008. 2007 was probably Federer's greatest ever form in his best years, and Nadal was able to play to 5 sets in 2007, and beat him in 2008. This is the greatest grass court player of all time in his greatest years we are talking about which Nadal managed to beat.

2008 Wimbledon Federer was playing amazing, I was watching the whole tournament. He hadn't lost a set till the final and I don't think any player in the history of tennis could have beat 2008 Federer at Wimbledon. No Sampras, Borg or Prime Djokovic because he was playing that good. This is the reason why most experts in the world of tennis consider Wimbledon 2008 as the greatest final of all time, because of the level of tennis being played by both players - and the game still amazes me to this day from both players.

So what were the reasons that Nadal was so comfortable during their best years?

I think Federer's game matched up well for Nadal, Federer hits with amazing amounts of spin (just a bit below Nadal's spin rates), which is why he dominated the field except Nadal. But the combination of Nadal's amazing speed, and his extreme low to high racquet action meant he was always in the rally even when Federer would go for his classic winners - which Nadal could get back into play.

The Nadal forehand to Federer backhand was a factor of course. Federer did not have a weak backhand, he won many grand slams because of his backhand, neat, powerful and deadly accurate. Nadal would target around 70% of his shots to Federer's backhand and it gave him good success.

Nadal's passing shots were crucial as well. I have never seen a player in history hit passing shots like Nadal did in his prime. Federer for some reason approach the net against Nadal at the worst times and would always get passed during those years. It was painful to watch at times as a Federer fan. We have to remember Federer is probably the greatest at serve and volley in this current generation.

What do you think?

Is it just during their primes?
What were their primes anyway? I don't think they overlap much.