Review my forehand (video)

[patrickluvsoj]

Please review my forehand!

My level: I'm a UTR 5.8 (around 4.0 NTRP).
My goal: Generate more spin consistently on my groundstrokes.
My analysis: Some things I notice on my forehand...

1. Contact tends to be late. I seem to take back my racket further right before swinging forward so maybe that's why.
2. I think I pull my left arm too early which rotates my body too early

Hopefully others can reuse this thread to get review on their forehands.

 

[ballmachineguy]

You rotate too late. You wait until you are flipping the racquet before you start the shoulder which results in lifting the ball over the net.

https://imgur.com/a/PiarBxl

 

[patrickluvsoj]

You rotate too late. You wait until you are flipping the racquet before you start the shoulder which results in lifting the ball over the net.

https://imgur.com/a/PiarBxl

Thanks! I sort of thought I was pulling my left hand too early and my body opening up early as well.

Any tips on making sure I rotate early?

 

[Fintft]

Thanks! I sort of thought I was pulling my left hand too early and my body opening up early as well.

Any tips on making sure I rotate early?

Start the movement from your hip( @ballmachineguy will tell you shoulder lol).

 

[washingmachine]

I notice that you're rotating and pivoting on your leading leg. All I can say is try not to rotate your body so much.

 

[ballmachineguy]

Thanks! I sort of thought I was pulling my left hand too early and my body opening up early as well.

Any tips on making sure I rotate early?

Start rotating by thinking about the shot you want to hit. Imagine the way you want the racquet and ball to interface, the trajectory/shape of the shot. That way, sometime during the drop, you drive your right shoulder to contact. The racquet will naturally flip because of the fact that you are thinking about the racquet ball interface. Currently, it looks like you drop to a prescribed spot and then flip the racquet and pull it.

The drop has no limit, other than intuitively knowing how you are contacting the ball starting you to contact.

Also, don’t listen to Fintft

 

[patrickluvsoj]

I notice that you're rotating and pivoting on your leading leg. All I can say is try not to rotate your body so much.

Now I’m not sure if I should rotate or not rotate.

Maybe start the rotation early but not over rotate?

@Fintft i do feel like I can recruit my hips more and focus on starting that early

 

[ballmachineguy]

Now I’m not sure if I should rotate or not rotate.

Maybe start the rotation early but not over rotate?

@Fintft i do feel like I can recruit my hips more and focus on starting that early

Well, no chance of fixing your forehand now. Thanks for playing!

 

[washingmachine]

Now I’m not sure if I should rotate or not rotate.

Maybe start the rotation early but not over rotate?

@Fintft i do feel like I can recruit my hips more and focus on starting that early

I've been looking at Yannic Sinner's forehand lately, who I really admire, and you can see that his body rotates slightly only after his arm wraps around his body. So his torso isn't rotating while he hits, the rotation looks more like a side effect. You could even try hitting without rotating your hips. Some people say to keep your upper body still.

 

[jga111]

You’re over rotating and often lose balance as a result.

Also..

Ready position should mean both hands on the racket - you arrive there too late and only momentarily before swinging again. Which means you’re late to your shot too.

Prep early.

 

[Curious]

My observation is that there’s nothing wrong except that it’s too wild. Who kicks the back leg on a forehand like that? The whole body moves too much in space during the shot.

 

[NuBas]

Keep both feet on the ground. It shouldn't lift up like that after you finish.

Think your forehand is fine, everyone has a different take (style) on the forehand.

But don't always whack or slap the ball which is what I see. Just find a good contact point in front of your body and keep it consistent.

 

[Jonesy]

Does his FH has all the modern topspin elements (hit, brush, snap) @zill ?

 

[Dragy]

Please review my forehand!

My level: I'm a UTR 5.8 (around 4.0 NTRP).
My goal: Generate more spin consistently on my groundstrokes.
My analysis: Some things I notice on my forehand...

1. Contact tends to be late. I seem to take back my racket further right before swinging forward so maybe that's why.
2. I think I pull my left arm too early which rotates my body too early

Hopefully others can reuse this thread to get review on their forehands.

The biggest thing which can be seen: you try to hit hard. You push hard off the ground. But you try to have fast speed of your whole body and your whole arm. You put all your effort in erly on, like from here:

Meanwhile, you don't technically need your body to rotate fast and your arm to swing fast, but your racquet head to swing fast. The way to go is to have final acceleration link, which some call "snap", but it's not the best term.

You should sequence all your rotations, so that your RHS is not directly related on how fast your torso rotates through the impact, neither how fast your arm swings. Racquet head should go much faster. How to achieve it? Use the pull-across move into contact. Best way to do it is using all-arm-rotation, aka ISR: where your elbow goes up and out, and flexes after contact like this:

Relax with your body and arm through early stages of the swing, that won't give you power. Load your legs, but don't force through the swing: align it, and then focus on making racquet head only accelerate accross the contact, while arm just goes through. Go easy, as if warming up, and find easy punch and spin right into contact, with no massive power-lifter style effort

Hope this helps.

 

[Fintft]

Load your legs, but don't force through the swing: align it, and then focus on making racquet head only accelerate accross the contact, while arm just goes through.

Like throw your racquet at the ball...

 

[patrickluvsoj]

Ok so far what I am hearing....
- Prep early. @jga111
- No weird stuff with legs. @NuBas @Curious
- Don't over rotate
- Racket head speed w/ all-arm-rotation (ISR)

I think these points are somewhat related. I am probably moving my body too much to try to generate power when I should focus on racket head speed. I should prep early and start kinetic chain but also make sure the body isn't going wild to make sure it translates into racket head speed.

I do notice that the best players have a very still body/head while hitting like Jannik Sinner

Do you think that's a decent summary?

 

[tendency]

Ok so far what I am hearing....
- Prep early. @jga111
- No weird stuff with legs. @NuBas @Curious
- Don't over rotate
- Racket head speed w/ all-arm-rotation (ISR)

I think these points are somewhat related. I am probably moving my body too much to try to generate power when I should focus on racket head speed. I should prep early and start kinetic chain but also make sure the body isn't going wild to make sure it translates into racket head speed.

I do notice that the best players have a very still body/head while hitting like Jannik Sinner

Do you think that's a decent summary?

You generate raquet head speed by lagging the raquet (essentially, while it's dropping on the backswing) as you rotate your trunk. This build up of trunk torque will force the arm to release and then you can pour on the arm action whipping the arm and snapping the racquet into the ball which will happen correctly, by itself, when it's properly accelerated. The racquet is simply guided low to high through the ball when executing a 'typical' shot (nothing fancy )

 

[Slicerman]

I agree with what the others have said. You're taking that body rotation concept too far and too extreme. It's a bit wild and out of control. That's why you're spraying balls, its throwing off your timing. You actually don't need to force your body in this way to hit a strong shot. And if you think you need more spin, you actually don't, you already have enough spin to keep the ball in the court. A lot of keeping the ball in play is about timing and meeting the ball cleanly. IMO, if you tried to exaggerate the spin any more with this form the result would probably be worse. I think there's overemphasis on spin in tennis circles, like its the universal fix for all tennis issues. A lot of times trying to violently whip it hard with spin will cause more mishits and shanks actually leading to less consistency. It's important to learn how to "play within yourself".

Another thing I noticed, you seem to be rushing your footwork and act like you're having time taken away. You're not timing your footwork with the speed of the ball. In my opinion, you move towards the ball too early. Like, once you get into position you stop your movement and just standing there waiting for the ball to come into your reach. If you pace yourself in time with the speed of the ball, then you can actually meet the ball with a walking step instead. You won't lose all of your momentum this way. And you will get more effortless power while also having more control.

 

[patrickluvsoj]

I agree with what the others have said. You're taking that body rotation concept too far and too extreme. It's a bit wild and out of control. That's why you're spraying balls, its throwing off your timing. You actually don't need to force your body in this way to hit a strong shot. And if you think you need more spin, you actually don't, you already have enough spin to keep the ball in the court. A lot of keeping the ball in play is about timing and meeting the ball cleanly. IMO, if you tried to exaggerate the spin any more with this form the result would probably be worse. I think there's overemphasis on spin in tennis circles, like its the universal fix for all tennis issues. A lot of times trying to violently whip it hard with spin will cause more mishits and shanks actually leading to less consistency. It's important to learn how to "play within yourself".

Another thing I noticed, you seem to be rushing your footwork and act like you're having time taken away. You're not timing your footwork with the speed of the ball. In my opinion, you move towards the ball too early. Like, once you get into position you stop your movement and just standing there waiting for the ball to come into your reach. If you pace yourself in time with the speed of the ball, then you can actually meet the ball with a walking step instead. You won't lose all of your momentum this way. And you will get more effortless power while also having more control.

Yup, I don't think it is conscious but I now see that I have too much rotation. The way I am understanding this is that too much unnecessary body movement makes my stroke erratic and also less of the energy is translated to racket head speed. Also my body is opening up too much which again is reducing efficiency.

Interesting point on footwork! I do feel I can improve in this area for sure. To clarify your point though, do you mean I am too rushed? Are there tips on how to maybe improve my timing of movement?

 

[ballmachineguy]

Yup, I don't think it is conscious but I now see that I have too much rotation. The way I am understanding this is that too much unnecessary body movement makes my stroke erratic and also less of the energy is translated to racket head speed. Also my body is opening up too much which again is reducing efficiency.

Interesting point on footwork! I do feel I can improve in this area for sure. To clarify your point though, do you mean I am too rushed? Are there tips on how to maybe improve my timing of movement?

You have too much body movement because of the pic I posted earlier. Very inefficient to get rhs from that position causing you to look like you are lobbing a grenade as far as you can.

You are not overrotating into the shot. You need to get that hitting shoulder just out past the non-hitting one, you just put yourself in a bad position waiting to long to pull the right shoulder forward.

 

[patrickluvsoj]

You have too much body movement because of the pic I posted earlier. Very inefficient to get rhs from that position causing you to look like you are lobbing a grenade as far as you can.

You are not overrotating into the shot. You need to get that hitting shoulder just out past the non-hitting one, you just put yourself in a bad position waiting to long to pull the right shoulder forward.

"causing you to look like you are lobbing a grenade as far as you can." LOL

I mean I agree. The take back looks pretty ugly. In my mind I have a loop in mind, but I think what is actually happening is I end up pulling my arm far back and low and then starting my swing which is inefficient.

 

[badmice2]

On your forehand, You’re transferring your weight too quick to your left foot, it is why you’re spinning off your left feet so much. Another way to explain it - since you have no more space to move forward with your left feet (planted too early), your body have no other option but to spin/pivot.

Assuming you’re working on your ground game, you need to work on your weight transfer by holding and hit off your back leg more. As noted above, the exaggeration with the right foot kicking forward is posture off, it is excessive.

 

[Curious]

In my mind I have a loop in mind, but I think what is actually happening is I end up pulling my arm far back and low and then starting my swing which is inefficient.

Funny world! You’re trying to do a loop, I’m trying to get rid of it completely. I don’t believe you need a loop. Keeping the racket head up, I think you do need that.

 

[user92626]

Agreed w Cur here. Keep racket head up is actually a fundamental.

OP,
Why can't u compare your stroke with that of a pro n correct the major differences?

U can do everything slowly. Practice, apply, reevaluate why things don't synch up, solve it.

 

[patrickluvsoj]

Agreed w Cur here. Keep racket head up is actually a fundamental.

OP,
Why can't u compare your stroke with that of a pro n correct the major differences?

U can do everything slowly. Practice, apply, reevaluate why things don't synch up, solve it.

I think there are things that others notice that I can’t especially if they are better or more knowledgeable about correct technique.

I think I got a lot of input from this thread.

 

[patrickluvsoj]

Funny world! You’re trying to do a loop, I’m trying to get rid of it completely. I don’t believe you need a loop. Keeping the racket head up, I think you do need that.

Yes racket head up is one thing I try to be mindful. This might be more specific to me but even if I do this, I tend then lower the racket head and then stay there too long which kills the momentum so this where loop comes in.

Of course if you think this is not right then, open to feedback!

 

[Curious]

Yes racket head up is one thing I try to be mindful. This might be more specific to me but even if I do this, I tend then lower the racket head and then stay there too long which kills the momentum so this where loop comes in.

Of course if you think this is not right then, open to feedback!

Don’t know how significant it is as I always thought power is overrated in amateur tennis. My main point is that it’s all good as long as the racket head is up above the hand during take back and before the forward swing starts, the hand doesn’t need to go there with a big loop. But it’s true that right before the swing starts if the racket is up it’ll go down momentarily to give some nice drop and momentum. Mine goes down a little too early as well. Somehow it’s hard to keep racket up longer untill that crucial moment to start the swing. So much talk, eh?

 

[Bambooman]

I think you should limit how much you have to move and focus more on the shot.

You are recovering way past the middle and then rushing back to make the shot. Just recover to center, if that. You already know where the ball is going to be.

 

[patrickluvsoj]

I think you should limit how much you have to move and focus more on the shot.

You are recovering way past the middle and then rushing back to make the shot. Just recover to center, if that. You already know where the ball is going to be.

Ah, I was actually trying to practice some hits on the run which is why I was recovering beyond the center.

 

[patrickluvsoj]

Don’t know how significant it is as I always thought power is overrated in amateur tennis. My main point is that it’s all good as long as the racket head is up above the hand during take back and before the forward swing starts, the hand doesn’t need to go there with a big loop. But it’s true that right before the swing starts if the racket is up it’ll go down momentarily to give some nice drop and momentum. Mine goes down a little too early as well. Somehow it’s hard to keep racket up longer untill that crucial moment to start the swing. So much talk, eh?

Your forehand seems simple and clean but still getting good pop/speed.

 

[ballmachineguy]

Your forehand seems simple and clean but still getting good pop/speed.

No spin.

 

[Curious]

Your forehand seems simple and clean but still getting good pop/speed.

It’s a long ongoing process of making it more simple and clean.
Again, Taylor Fritz and Holger Rune. Watch them more.

 

[user92626]

Your FH is pretty good in this instance. You were against pronation but you are doing it nicely here.

Don't know how long you'll stay with it, but this is a good foundation to build on.

 

[Curious]

Your FH is pretty good in this instance. You were against pronation but you are doing it nicely here.

Don't know how long you'll stay with it, but this is a good foundation to build on.

I don’t want to pronate going into contact. If it happens after contact I’m ok with that.

 

[Slicerman]

Yup, I don't think it is conscious but I now see that I have too much rotation. The way I am understanding this is that too much unnecessary body movement makes my stroke erratic and also less of the energy is translated to racket head speed. Also my body is opening up too much which again is reducing efficiency.

Interesting point on footwork! I do feel I can improve in this area for sure. To clarify your point though, do you mean I am too rushed? Are there tips on how to maybe improve my timing of movement?

Your feet are moving in a very nervous way. The constant feet bouncing isn't really productive imo. I also suspect the "swinging leg" after your forehand finish is symptom of rushing the recovery step, like you're trying to run back to center as soon as possible, but at the expense of balance and accurate timing. Try hitting the forehands without your feet leaving the ground, and just simply pivot your feet instead. Work more on being more calm and approaching the ball. Try to time your steps with the speed that the ball arrives so that you meet the ball at the exact moment. In general don't focus too much on power, try focusing more on control and striking the ball cleanly. Striking the ball cleanly is what gives a lot of players their effortless power.

 

[enishi1357]

How do you warm up on the service line? Your groundstroke should be similar to that. If your warmup stroke looks like that then you are warming up wrong.

 

[legcramp]

Stop thinking about what the rest of your body is doing. Just swing the racquet through the contact zone (the ball) and less of an across your body motion you're doing which is causing your left arm to look weird/rotate too early. Just think about the ball and hitting through it with your racquet and everything else will naturally align.

 

[patrickluvsoj]

I hit some more forehands a week later. Tried to incorporate some feedback from here but it’s be good to see if it got any better or if it’s still trash.

Some things I am trying to keep kind of…
- Prep early and keep take back short
- Keep racket head up and hit like loop rather than bring racket low and keeping it there
- make sure body rotation is translating to racket head speed

Me hitting on the wall

Me hitting in rally

 

[badmice2]

I hit some more forehands a week later. Tried to incorporate some feedback from here but it’s be good to see if it got any better or if it’s still trash.

Some things I am trying to keep kind of…
- Prep early and keep take back short
- Keep racket head up and hit like loop rather than bring racket low and keeping it there
- make sure body rotation is translating to racket head speed

Me hitting on the wall

Me hitting in rally

It’s interesting to see that you can hit a proper shot (2nd video 3:55 mark)on your backhand side, yet you struggle on the forehand. The movement and concept is exactly the same. You might be over complicating this whole thing. You should watch your backhand setup more.

Also in forehands where you’re lunging forward well (2nd vid 1:16, 1:20), you seem to be following through and finish your stroke.

My 2main take away - perhaps your contact point spacing is inconsistent, and later that you think, which means you’re either waiting for it to come to you or you’re not aggressive with your footwork enough to go after it in front. The other is that several instances your you’re finish left step even though your trying to finish your swing forward. Your movement aren’t sync. As a bonus, if you are trying to use your left foot more, take a bigger step.

 

[patrickluvsoj]

It’s interesting to see that you can hit a proper shot (2nd video 3:55 mark)on your backhand side, yet you struggle on the forehand. The movement and concept is exactly the same. You might be over complicating this whole thing. You should watch your backhand setup more.

Also in forehands where you’re lunging forward well (2nd vid 1:16, 1:20), you seem to be following through and finish your stroke.

My 2main take away - perhaps your contact point spacing is inconsistent, and later that you think, which means you’re either waiting for it to come to you or you’re not aggressive with your footwork enough to go after it in front. The other is that several instances your you’re finish left step even though your trying to finish your swing forward. Your movement aren’t sync. As a bonus, if you are trying to use your left foot more, take a bigger step.

I agree that I hit late on the forehand side especially when there is pace. When incoming ball is fast, I'm hitting open stance and body weight is not moving forward. Maybe not not preparing and moving to the ball fast enough?

 

[Power Player]

Yes racket head up is one thing I try to be mindful. This might be more specific to me but even if I do this, I tend then lower the racket head and then stay there too long which kills the momentum so this where loop comes in.

Of course if you think this is not right then, open to feedback!

In that video, notice his off hand drops and starts to come across in sync with his racquet drop. Do that.

 

[badmice2]

Looks like you’re hitting through your elbow a lot as in you’re doing push-ups. Your should consider letting your hands flow through longer and deliver your elbow through the shot forward more. It’s coming across as if you’re trying to boggy-whip (nadal) your forehand on every shot.

 

[patrickluvsoj]

Looks like you’re hitting through your elbow a lot as in you’re doing push-ups. Your should consider letting your hands flow through longer and deliver your elbow through the shot forward more. It’s coming across as if you’re trying to boggy-whip (nadal) your forehand on every shot.

My guess is this is related to late on contact and compensating for this. My take away is to get to ball early and prep so that I can take full/long stroke.

 

[patrickluvsoj]

I was watching a video and realized that on most shots my left hand is far away from my body. I feel like this is letting the momentum I built from rotation to escape to the left rather than towards the ball.

When I look at Djokovic or Sinner, they have their left arm more tucked in.

What do folks think of this? @ballmachineguy

Don't know how to post image for the life of me so just sharing link here

https://imgur.com/a/XaiWXmv

 

[Cap]

I was watching a video and realized that on most shots my left hand is far away from my body. I feel like this is letting the momentum I built from rotation to escape to the left rather than towards the ball.
When I look at Djokovic or Sinner, they have their left arm more tucked in.

You are spot on. The non-dominant arm has an important role and tuck in works like a reactive break to slow down body rotation and accelerate arm / racket (if loose enough).
You are sometimes trying to catch the racket at follow-through finish, which should help to enforce the tuck in, but old habit prevails when you don't catch the racket.
Try to focus on non-dominant arm for a while.