Richard Williams the coach

[Jack Romeo]

I wonder why Richard Williams never gets any credit as a technical coach. I mean Venus and Serena have always said that he is their coach but every writer and commentator says that the sisters are merely managed and supported by their parents. Technique, tactics and strategy were things they supposedly picked up from the brief times they spent with Rick Macci, Nick Bolletieri, Billie Jean King and Zina Garrison.

In espn.com, there are several articles written by Greg Garber about coaching and a recurring statement he makes is that the Williams sisters lack a technical coach. Jon Wertheim of cnnsi.com has also made similar statements.

But the sisters have said that Richard was actually the person who tinkered and improved their techniques over the years. Both Williams parents also teach them about strategy and tactics. Serena said that as children learning the game, their parents would stay up late at night watching instructional videos and reading tennis books. Venus used to have a full western forehand that was very hit-or-miss. On the advice of her parents, she switched to a semi-western grip and has become more consistent. (Of course she still makes errors, but who doesn't?) It is also Richard who keeps telling her to serve-and-volley more, although Venus has stubbornly chosen not to. King, Garrison and most commentators have said the same thing about serving and volleying. If that's not technical advice, I don't know what is.

I am not a big Williams fan. I do not like or dislike them. But I believe them when they say that their parents are in fact their real technical coaches.

I just have no idea why people do not believe Richard and Oracene are technical coaches. Karolj Seles and Stefano Capriati were never denied acknowledgment as technical coaches.

 

[The tennis guy]

No one said Richard Williams is not their coach. However, to say he is a technical coach is a bit stretching. Btw, no one said Seles' and Capriati's fathers are 'technical' coach.

If Richard were a technical coach, Venus wouldn't have second serve as liability with her height and strength. You mentioned improvement of Venus' technique. To be honest, I haven't seen much improvement in her technique at all. The improvement is her match experience and confidence relatively to her early years. The same with Serena. Both of them won by their natural talents. The same can be said of Seles and Capriati. These four hadn't improved much on technique since turning pro. They improved their strategy through match play, and confidence with winning.

 

[predrag]

No one said Richard Williams is not their coach. However, to say he is a technical coach is a bit stretching. Btw, no one said Seles' and Capriati's fathers are 'technical' coach.

If Richard were a technical coach, Venus wouldn't have second serve as liability with her height and strength. You mentioned improvement of Venus' technique. To be honest, I haven't seen much improvement in her technique at all. The improvement is her match experience and confidence relatively to her early years. The same with Serena. Both of them won by their natural talents. The same can be said of Seles and Capriati. These four hadn't improved much on technique since turning pro. They improved their strategy through match play, and confidence with winning.

Another thing is, pay attention on the sisters' groundstrokes technique.
I find it lacking at the best.
However Williamses are so athletically gifted that they make up for it.
They pay the price though, by having so many injuries.

Regards, Predrag

 

[a verrry large duck]

Well you see those old time videos of them practicing on those compton courts and it sure looks like everything a "real" coach would be doing, so I say yes. Plus if serena and venus already say they get technical direction from their dad, then why argue? Personally, I think their volleys are top-notch. They need to go to net more. If I had serena's groundies, I'd be at the net faster than you can say "oh my". But then that's the problem with women's tennis. They don't have the killer instinct and aggressive attitude to run up to the net and say "come on take your best shot".

 

[bigserving]

I wonder why Richard Williams never gets any credit as a technical coach.

These are probably the same people who said that Mr. Williams was making a huge unforgiveable mistake by not having Venus and Serena play the junior circuit. Well, they graduated from high school, attend college, have pursuits and futures outside of tennis.

These are just the same hating people who are holding on to the past and continue to refuse to give credit where credit is due.

Number 1's in the world and twenty some major titles later, those people are still saying things like, she is not sound here, her game is flawed there. Can you imagine the laughs that the entire Williams family would get if they read some of the posts on this site, while polishing Wimbledon, Open, Roland Garros, and Australian trophies!

Can you imagine the drop off in her results when some of Venus' opponents find out that she has a weak serve and a flawed forehand!

And still even some people fall back on that old tired racist sterotyped, " they are just natural athletes," comments. Truth be told, outside of tennis, Venus and Serena are a little dorky and kinda uncoordinated! They have become great tennis players through long hard work, and maybe some good technical coaching. As fans and players, we all know that there are no shortcuts and no subsitute for hard work. Yet still the comments.

Is there any player on either tour who has the perfect game, with who has strokes without flaws and needs no improvement to win on all surfaces? There isn't is there?

I was truly impressed with Venus' on-court adjustments made at Roland Garros this year. Slowed by injury, she lost several first sets, made adjustments and came back to win matches.

Whether we like Venus and Serena or any other player, I think that we should be fair, objective, and intelligent in our comments. I think that a big part of the entertainment of sports is being superfans of one team, (RAIDERS) and hating other teams, (COWBOYS). In addition to hating, I give much respect where credit is due. Shouldn't we all?

Love 'em or hate 'em, I have a feeling that we are all going to be telling our grandkids about these two sisters from da hood, who changed women's tennis around the turn of the century.

 

[pound cat]

You said it right, bigserving.

 

[Emma Knightley]

These are probably the same people who said that Mr. Williams was making a huge unforgiveable mistake by not having Venus and Serena play the junior circuit. Well, they graduated from high school, attend college, have pursuits and futures outside of tennis.

where do they attend college?

 

[predrag]

[snip]
Number 1's in the world and twenty some major titles later, those people are still saying things like, she is not sound here, her game is flawed there. Can you imagine the laughs that the entire Williams family would get if they read some of the posts on this site, while polishing Wimbledon, Open, Roland Garros, and Australian trophies!
[snip]

Let me ask you bigserving, do you realize how much time have Williams sisters spent hurt?

Being young as they are, starting competition as late as they did don't you find that they
are hurt little too often?
What would be the reason for this?

Regards, Predrag

 

[Camilio Pascual]

Bigserving and Predag, you guys seem to be agreeing that he is their technical coach, no? You just disagree on whether he is a GOOD technical coach?

 

[The tennis guy]

Bring the race back in every conversation about Williams is just too boring.

No one said they are not great. They could be much better than they are now with their athletic ability. They are head and shoulder above other WTA players in athletic ability. There is no question athleticism and mental toughness are Williams' strength, techniques aren't. That's is objective view of them.

I agree with predrag, their injury proneness has a lot to do with their technique since they are so strong physically.

Technique sound players? JHH and RFederer. With JHH's limited physical ability, if she had the same technique as Williams, she would not be a top 10 player.

 

[bigserving]

[

Let me ask you bigserving, do you realize how much time have Williams sisters spent hurt?

Being young as they are, starting competition as late as they did don't you find that they
are hurt little too often?
What would be the reason for this?[/quote]

Not sure what this has to do with the question on this thread .......but........ OK, I'll play.

I am not sure what your criteria is for an acceptable level number of injuries is. The fact is, tennis players get hurt, some more than others. That should not a surprise to anyone.

I am absolutely sure that I DON'T know how much Venus, Serena or any other player has been hurt. The fact is most tennis players, sometimes play hurt. Just look how many men's clay-courters got injured in the week after Roland Garros just this year, and last year too for that matter!

I don't really think that they have been often injured. That I can recall, Venus pulled an abdominal, had a sore wrist, and they both have chronic knees. Knees take a pounding in hard-court tennis.

As far as age goes, do you realize that Venus has been on the pro tour for ten years and Serena nine? I do not agree with you that turning pro at age 14 is "starting competition late." Lots of players have come and gone in that time yet these two are still the favorites to win Wimbledon.

Here some extreme cases but, do you realize that Venus is older than, and Serena the same age as, Martina Hingis and Anna Kournikova? Hingis and Venus turned pro the same year.

As far as the reason or injuries, I have heard, and I don't know if it is true, that arthritis runs in the Williams family. The fact is, I do not know the reason for any player's injury AND neither do you or anyone else!

Are you actually inferring that Venus and Serena's injuries have anything to do with Richard Williams technical coaching ability?

 

[James Brown]

im confused...having natural athletic gifts is a racist stereotype? Are you ****ing stupid? roger federer has natural talent and last time i checked he wasnt black. god, everything and anything your post had that resembled sensibility is now gone because of that stupid remark. I hate you.

 

[bigserving]

[where do they attend college?

They go to (went?)some Interior Design and Fashion Design College in Florida.

 

[bigserving]

im confused...having natural athletic gifts is a racist stereotype? quote]

Having natural athletic gifts is NOT a racist stereotype. However, saying that players have success because they have "natural athletic ability" CAN be.

In the late eighties, some friends of mine pointed this out to me and I did not believe them initially. We watched basketball, football, and baseball games on TV. When the announcer said that a player was "smart" 100% of the time, that player was white. When the announcer said that a player had "natural athletic ability", 100% of the time that player was black.

Believe it or not, there was a time when black players were not allowed to play Quarterback because of the stereotype that they were just "dumb natural athletes" who could run catch and throw, but didn't work hard were not intelligent enough think on their feet. This apparently was a stereotype that went as far back as blacks have been able to compete in sports.

In the Olympics, you can have natural athletes. Those in the world who are able to run faster, throw farther, jump higher, swim faster, lift more. Not in tennis. Tennis, the higher level you go, the becomes more and more cerebral. A high level player who can adjust during a match will beat a player with only "natural athletic ability" every time.

IMO ANY player who cracks the top 1000, must have athletic ability. Anyone who actually thinks that a tennis player can win a major or even crack the top 100 on athletic ability alone, IMO is remarkably uniformed (about the game of tennis).

Roger Federer is a great talent who has been practicing an playing for a long time to get to this level. Can he run faster, jump higher, lift more than other players? I don't know, do any of you? He has worked hard to become the great tennis talent that he is.

He would probably be offended if someone told him that he won Wimbledon, for the second year, on natural athletic ability.

 

[Jack Romeo]

First of all, I strongly disagree with the blanket statement "the Williams sisters have poor technique." In fact I think Serena has the best technique on the serve and forehand. Her backhand ain't bad either, certainly no more or less perfect or flawed than Capriati. Venus has great technique on the backhand and her volleys. So her forehand isn't perfect. So what? Don't you people remember Steffi Graf's forehand technique? Or even her serve? Venus actually has better technique on the forehand than Graf. So what if they rely on their athleticism and strength? My only point is that Richard and Oracene should get credit where it is due. This is not even an issue of whether they are good or bad technical coaches. But at least we should be acknowledging that they are indeed technical coaches. There should be no more statements like Garber's (of espn.com) "the Williams sisters are the only top players without a real technical coach blah blah blah..."

 

[Deuce]

'bigserving', you are cordially invited to take your very stupid 'argument' somewhere other than these boards.

It is plainly obvious that you are either a grossly ignorant individual, or you are just looking to pick a fight based on racism and bigotry - so much so, that you are desperately trying to create these elements where they do not exist; throwing around gratuitous (and entirely baseless) accusations in the process - while, ironically, your bias in favor of the Williams family comes through loud and clear.

These boards are in no need of this type of garbage. Go and pick your very dumb fights somewhere else.

 

[Phil]

'bigserving', you are cordially invited to take your very stupid 'argument' somewhere other than these boards.

It is plainly obvious that you are either a grossly ignorant individual, or you are just looking to pick a fight based on racism and bigotry - so much so, that you are desperately trying to create these elements where they do not exist; throwing around gratuitous (and entirely baseless) accusations in the process - while, ironically, your bias in favor of the Williams family comes through loud and clear.

These boards are in no need of this type of garbage. Go and pick your very dumb fights somewhere else.

Deuce - You call this guy ignorant (or else a race baiter) but you don't explain WHY. What in his "argument" is bigoted or racist? And if someone ELSE made racist or bigoted comments, why NOT pick a fight with them? What, exactly, has he said that is "baseless"? Do you actually WATCH professional sports broadcasts? If you did, you might know from where he is coming from. Again, you have demonstrated that this is a subject that you have no business commenting on; you are tone deaf and blind on this subject. You're better off sticking to your favorite pet peeve-kiddie p0rn0.

And as one who picks very dumb fights all the time, you're really one to be telling someone else to get off the Boards. But that's typical of the "Conscious of the TW Board (and resident hypocrite)".

 

[Lambro]

Serena

sent a traditional forehand volley (ie 90 deg angle at wrist) that she took from deep in her court and set int LONG....

Tim, Rog, Mac, Stephan, Martina, no great all court player could make such a blunder

the only reason Serana is good is because of her above average physique. Whittle her down to a proportionate body size and she would drop in rankings fast.

Here forehand and first serve are her only decent shots. Otherwise she has a very boring game.

 

[Deuce]

Once again, right on schedule, Phil comes in to put his perpetually biased and manipulative 'spin' on something I've written, because he is obsessed with me.

Phil is a jackass defined. You're playing only to a stupid audience, Philip, as only the dumb are fooled by your transparent and neverending BS.

"And still even some people fall back on that old tired racist sterotyped, "they are just natural athletes," comments." - 'bigserving'.

Even if one takes a lifetime, such an unfair, baseless, and ridiculous statement could never be justified.

 

[pound cat]

IMO bigserving has presented well-thought out, logical, & intelligent posts calmly presented & based on a thorough knowledge of the subject matter & any posts which disagree should be presented in a similar manner, although those to whom this post may be directed no doubt have either ignored it or not understood. Such is the human condition.

 

[goober]

There are plenty of black tennis players who are not athletes. Chandra Rubin and Alexandra Stevenson I don't consider to be particularly athletic at least not in the same class as the Williams Sisters.

Why do people get upset when they are labeled athletic when it is obvious they are? I wish I had that label 8)

 

[Deuce]

'cat... Could you please point out to me the 'intelligent logic' in making accusations of racial prejudice against any person who is of the opinion that Venus and/or Serena are naturally gifted athletes?

Yes - please do enlighten me as to the intelligence and logic within this perspective, as I obviously seem to have missed the inclusion of either element.

 

[Ronaldo]

This may sound like heresy but Venus and Serena injuries seem to allow them breaks from the year-long season more often than not. If there is not a break soon during the season, no WTA player will play injury-free the entire year.

 

[bigserving]

'bigserving', you are cordially invited to take your very stupid 'argument' somewhere other than these boards.

It is plainly obvious that you are either a grossly ignorant individual, or you are just looking to pick a fight based on racism and bigotry - so much so, that you are desperately trying to create these elements where they do not exist; throwing around gratuitous (and entirely baseless) accusations in the process - while, ironically, your bias in favor of the Williams family comes through loud and clear.

These boards are in no need of this type of garbage. Go and pick your very dumb fights somewhere else.

My computer must be jacked up. I clicked on the Pro Player DISCUSSION Board, and got directed to the World According to Deuce board.

Please, Please, Please, Please Deuce, may I have you permission to post here? I promise to say only what you can understand and only what you agree with...........NOT!!!

You sound like a little Chihuahua. You know the ones. They hide behind the fence with a "beware of dog" sign on it, squawking and making big noise. Only when the gate is opened, a very unimpressive creature is revealed.

Or, remember the Wizard of Oz? Everybody wanted to see the great wizard. You know the guy. He hides behind the safety of the curtain making big noise, using big inflammatory words, and calling people ignorant. He uses technology to loudly proclaim things that he doesn't understand "garbage." He talks like he is the king of the boards and tells people that they can't post anymore. He tries to turn civil, yet sensitive discussions into personal fights. Only once the curtain is opened, a pathetic, unimpressive, frightened little Chihuahua ia revealed!

You "cordially" asked me to leave this board. I cordially ask you to roll over and play dead!

 

[Deuce]

Something tells me that you probably don't serve real big...

Your 'race card' agenda in this thread is incredibly obvious, and it is this to which I object.

You are clearly the one not answering the bell here. I attacked your argument - or, more accurately, your accusations, revealing them as being entirely without foundation.

You, in turn, have focussed on me, and me only, throwing out a series of immature personal insults while including absolutely nothing related to your baseless blanket accusations of racial prejudice against people you've never met. I suppose I'd do the same in your position - try to divert the direction and focus away from the unjustifiable and indefensible accusations.

... but, then again, I would never be in your position...

 

[Phil]

Deuce - You have proven, in this and other posts, that you don't have the ability to read between the lines for racist remarks. It's not real subtle, even on this board, but, especially in the case of the Williams sisters, your obvious dislike for them blinds you to other dynamics. Your logic, though, is irrefutable-call someone stupid or ignorant, and then run away, refusing to explain WHY they are what you called them. Or else, cloud the issue by throwing out more childish names. This is TROLLING of the worst kind, and, while being a troll is not bad in and of itself, your brand of it is spineless-you, my little Northern friend, are a ball-less wonder.

 

[predrag]

[snip]
I am not sure what your criteria is for an acceptable level number of injuries is. The fact is, tennis players get hurt, some more than others. That should not a surprise to anyone.

[snip]

I don't really think that they have been often injured. That I can recall, Venus pulled an abdominal, had a sore wrist, and they both have chronic knees. Knees take a pounding in hard-court tennis.

As far as age goes, do you realize that Venus has been on the pro tour for ten years and Serena nine? I do not agree with you that turning pro at age 14 is "starting competition late."
[snip]

You see that chronic knee problem is exatly what I want to point out.
Look at there groundstrokes and try to see the twist they are doing.
I believe that that is directly correlated with knee problem.
They did not start that early, and they played extremely limited schedule.
And they still get hurt a lot.

Whatever.


Regards, Predrag

 

[predrag]

Bigserving and Predag, you guys seem to be agreeing that he is their technical coach, no? You just disagree on whether he is a GOOD technical coach?

Now you have me confused. What is your question, again?

Is R.W. working somewhere as technical coach? No
Would I ask R.W. for an advice about tennic technique? No
Do I think that he knows much about tennis? No
DO I think R.w. is a nutcase? Yes

How do you define a technical coach?

Regards, Predrag

 

[mileslong]

They go to (went?)some Interior Design and Fashion Design College in Florida.

lmao, that and the fact you say they are dorky and unathletic off the court made me laugh out loud. how can you argue with such reliable sources as you have...as far as some facion college somewhere they went to, obviously serena didnt graduate...

 

[Deuce]

Thanks, Phil. As long as your babbling goes on about what a jackass I am, I know I'm doing things right.

Of course, I've explained several times why his accusations are stupid. You know I've pointed it out, and you uinderstand perfectly. But your little agenda prohibits you from acknowledging this, and behaving in a mature and honest matter. In order to remain faithful to your transparent agenda, you deliberately manipulate matters, and very voluntarily 'misunderstand' things - to whatever end is convenient for you.

I seem to still be here. I suppose this means that I've not "run away". I've awaited justifications (or, at least, arguments) from the guy - and they've simply not come. All that he put forth was a series of personal insults - having absolutely nothing to do with the substance of his baseless accusations. How is it that I'm still here, while he refuses to address the subject, yet you, Phil, accuse me - and not him - of "running away"? Could it be that you cannot see clearly? That you have your very own private little agenda, which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, or any of the subjects contained therein? You certainly can never be mistaken for an objective observer - you're simply not honest enough. You're little more than a two-bit actor, merely playing a two-bit role...

 

[Phil]

...But your little agenda prohibits you from acknowledging this, and behaving in a mature and honest matter. In order to remain faithful to your transparent agenda, you deliberately manipulate matters, and very voluntarily 'misunderstand' things - to whatever end is convenient for you.

The babbling gibberish of one trapped in a fantasy world. So in love with himself that he's the last one to realize what a fool he really is. Parallel universe indeed...Reading this and your other school marm-like prose, I can only imagine that you have a high-pitched and whinny little voice, kind of like the annoying little terrier that used to lived down the street from me.

 

[magian10s]

Technical purity: The Williams Sisters

Good call. The sisters are losing technical points, with Serena maintaining a bit more technique than Venus.

Morris King, Jr.
fmr. Advisory Coach, Venus & Serena
www.magian10S.com/mk

 

[PusherMan]

It amazes me that Deuce STILL behaves this way after ALL THIS TIME! I haven't felt compelled to pray for someone in years. Thanks , Deuce.

Anyways, in regards to Richard, the man will NEVER get credit for anything from some on these boards. Unfortunately when get a reputation for saying strange and bizarre things (and Richard HAS done this often) , people tend to only hear those things, even when you're making sense. The man is a genius if you ask me. Entertaining to boot.

Nice post, bigserving.

 

[tiebreaker]

big serving = big sense

Bigserver makes some very astute obeservations
about Team Williams. Their story is one of the
most amazing in all of sports and Richard
has to be given a lot of credit.

On the other hand, it is unfortunate that
Richard contributed greatly to the posse
of Williams haters. His conduct and remarks
have been so abrasive. And, neither girl
scores high on the likeablility meter; they
flat out lack humility and respect for other
players. However, couldn't this be said for
Hingis, Capriati & Kournikova? Perhaps it is just
the combination of youth and great success.

 

[NoBadMojo]

the williams situation is just an anomoly IMO..that happens sometimes in the world. the reality of it is that mr williams is not a great coach...do you see any other pros approaching him to make their games into something like venus and serena???he is of the ilk of mr capriati and the other tennis fathers. so happens tennis was their life...they've hit like 12 baziliion balls and are athletically gifted. anyone that hits that many balls is gonna get pretty good, especially if you are athletic. is mr. woods a great golf teaching pro? i dont know that tiger had anyone work w. his game until later. i shudder to think how good they would be if they had proper coaching and how much less injured they would have been w. better technique. my .02..and pls forgive me if any of this was said before..i didnt read the entire thread. ed

 

[heninfan99]

Will Smith to play Richard Williams in a film titled King Richard.

https://www.si.com/tennis/2019/03/04/will-smith-venus-serena-williams-dad-king-richard-movie

Apparently it will cover how he bilked Macci out of any monies for training.